how do you score this?

Here's my guess: the play was essentially over so I don't think you get a double. I want to charge someone with an error, for either not paying attention or not calling time out but that's probably not right either. I say stolen base. Probably wrong, I don't know, but someone will.

If your advancement wasn't due to the throwing error, it's a steal.

k thanks.

Interesting scenario indeed ... at least from a scorekeeping standpoint.

Obrady, could you clarify here ...just wondering if that statement you made is an actual rule or just your opinion.

If it's a steal, does that mean if they had made a play on him and gotten him out it would have been a "caught stealing"? I don't think so.

Let's see what the book says:

OBR: DETERMINING VALUE OF BASE HITS
10.07
"Whether a safe hit shall be scored as one base hit, two base hit, three base hit or home run when no error or putout results shall be determined as follows: ... it is a one base hit if the batter stops at first base; it is a two base hit if the batter stops at second base."

I agree this is a bit of a strange situation, but to me, this rule says it's a double.

SCOREKEEPER -- are you out there? Haven't heard from you in a while.

Based on the posted scenario, he stopped at first, and then stole while they weren't paying attention (the ball was retrieved and returned to the pitcher, you don't have to wait for the pitcher to be on the mound to get a steal). To be a double, you can't stop at a base (I know we could come up with examples of where a ball is hit in the corner and a runner stops then relies the ball hasn't been fielded yet, so he advances but I don't think this is the case). Since there are no mental errors and he didn't advance on the throwing error, it has to be a steal to account for his advancement.

If your interpretation is that a play has to made, then any runner who advances on a traditional steal and no throw down is made because it is to late, then what would you score it.

10.07 Stolen Bases And Caught Stealing
The official scorer shall credit a stolen base to a runner whenever the runner advances one base unaided by a hit, a putout, an error, a force-out, a fielder's choice, a passed ball, a wild pitch or a balk, subject to the following:

O'Brady -- you make some interesting points. I enjoy the dialogue.

Couple of things: Please re-read. I didn't state that "a play has to be made."

And in the scenario you describe with a traditional steal and no throw -- yes, that would be a steal. (Although I've not seen "traditional" and "non-traditional" steals mentioned in the rulebook.)

Bottom line, to me the posted scenario is simply a batter trying to stretch a single into a double -- and succeeding. The fact is that the ball was still live and the runner was still in motion -- so he had never stopped.

I also think the rule you quoted disqualfies this from being a stolen base ... because his advancing was indeed "aided by a hit". Note, it doesn't say "caused" it says "aided". And that's pretty much what happened here.

So for me, score it as a single that got stretched into a double.

Any other views out there?

"...i was on my way back to first. then the pitcher got the ball at first base and started walking back towards the mound. "

To me that says he stopped, was returning to first where the pitcher had been covering and then he took off for second.

I would go with ob.

But can you really steal a base in the middle of a play? I guess that's the part that I'm getting hung up on.

The middle of the play, I think is the key here. Since baseball doesn't have whistles or stoppage of play between plays (unless someone calls time-out), the end of a play can be up for argument. But in this case I think it's pretty clear cut. The runner says he was on he way back to first, to me that play is over (there again unless he was in a run down); next one begins when he takes off again.

I still think we should have an extra category:

Hit
Error
Etc

Dumb Play - CL - for Clueless

I've been thinking about this scenario ever since it's been posted. Nothing seemed to really fit -- a double, a stolen base ...

I THINK I'VE FINALLY FOUND A DEFINITIVE ANSWER!

In Sec 10.04 (MLB) it discusses RBI's (which is not the issue here). But it does say this in addressing a situation "...when a fielder holds the ball, or throws to a wrong base." (which IS the issue here -- fielder holding the ball)

"Ordinarily, if the runner keeps going, credit a run batted in; if the runner stops and takes off again when he notices the misplay, credit the run as scored on a fielder's choice."

So I think the implication of that last sentence gives us our answer to the postedd situation -- his advancement to 2nd base would scored as a FC.

Your thougts?

"Misplay" may throw a wrench in that reasoning. Was there a "misplay"? Or just not paying attention to the base runner.

From the wording of 10.04, I'd say that "misplay" refers back to "when a fielder holds the ball or throws to the wrong base".

As I read it, either of those qualifies as a "misplay".

Because of that, I don't think that whether or not he was paying attention has nay bearing on this situation.