Man I am going to make PG mad at me with this post I know. Saw a kid they rated at a 5 or 6 there about a few years ago and they list his 60 at 7 or a little above. When I saw the kid he ran a 6.2 60 dash. Now there could be an off day for the kid or someone made a mistake with the finial in take of information. But after seeing this kid in action a scout who was there said someone had made a very bad mistake with this kid as his arm was above average and not average and some other stuff as it was long ago around 2004 maybe 2006. Scout did say he was going to talk to PG as he knew the people and let them know what he saw and if that was the right info they had or did someone make a mistake.
Not blaming PG mind you but things do happen some times with the in-put of info as we are all human. With the above being said if their info was correct at the time they posted it then this kid improved a lot in less than a year. Now I do not know if the kid was sick, hurt or any of that at where ever PG and this kid seen each other but in this one case I know someone made a mistake about this kid. Or this kid worked his butt off and improved a lot. Because of that one case I will go ok when a parent says their kid scored this or that and take a look just to make sure their kid was not like the kid I wrote about as you never know what you can find that maybe that diamond.
Pony,
We do make mistakes at times and for sure we are human, but 6.2 would be one of the fastest runners we have ever seen. And we have seen the fastest runners. That would have been a huge mistake and I'd like to think we wouldn't miss a 6.2 runner. They seem to stand out in a very large way!
We do make mistakes at times and for sure we are human, but 6.2 would be one of the fastest runners we have ever seen. And we have seen the fastest runners. That would have been a huge mistake and I'd like to think we wouldn't miss a 6.2 runner. They seem to stand out in a very large way!
quote:I've seen a player rated a pg 7 who was the number 5 overall first round draft pick.
eaters baseball,
I checked all the 5th overall picks. All but one was graded a 10 by PG. There were no 7 grades, but Matt Hobgood was graded an 8 at an underclassmen event. He was selected 5th overall as a pitcher, we didn't grade him as a pitcher. Actually we should have graded him higher as a hitter. Here is the comment at the end of his report from that event.
Hobgood throws 88-90 from the mound but did not pitch at this event and would have graded higher.
He ended up throwing mid 90s as a senior.
Sometimes without the whole story things can be confusing.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Pony,
We do make mistakes at times and for sure we are human, but 6.2 would be one of the fastest runners we have ever seen. And we have seen the fastest runners. That would have been a huge mistake and I'd like to think we wouldn't miss a 6.2 runner. They seem to stand out in a very large way!
See even I make mistakes with a simple post as it should have been 6.4 or 6.5 and not 6.2 as I was changing something I wrote and got that wrong trying to correct something else. You are correct at 6.2 as I would have remembered that kids name by now and when writing the post about him. You must have gotten something right as I set here writing I still cannot remember his name. While on this subject of high school kids have any of you there seen the R/H pitcher out of Slocomb, Al?
If not I can tell you this kid is good, very good and has signed with a D1 college in that state. (Don't know if I am allowed to throw that in or not but I did not say who just where as I was wanting to know if y'all rated him and if I did something wrong by posting this I will have to say sorry in advance).
Tony Sanchez, maybe he was 4th overall...was rated a 7 at the one and only pg showcase that he attended.
Why is everyone so secrective with information about kids who are signed? I get how some people want to keep things to themselves until their kid gets signed, but once that happens what could be the reason for secrecy?
eatersbaseball,
No disrespect at all, I just think you've made an honest mistake.
We have had more than one Tony Sanchez that has attended PG events. It is true that one of them was once graded a 7.
However, the Tony Sanchez drafted by the Pirates (4th pick) from Killian High School in Miami and Boston College was never graded by PG. He did play in a couple of PG Tournaments. Our database notes on him are very good. Had we graded him he probably would have been at least a 9 or maybe a 10.
Tony Sanchez
Once again that is how things can get confused.
No disrespect at all, I just think you've made an honest mistake.
We have had more than one Tony Sanchez that has attended PG events. It is true that one of them was once graded a 7.
However, the Tony Sanchez drafted by the Pirates (4th pick) from Killian High School in Miami and Boston College was never graded by PG. He did play in a couple of PG Tournaments. Our database notes on him are very good. Had we graded him he probably would have been at least a 9 or maybe a 10.
Tony Sanchez
Once again that is how things can get confused.
With all due respect, the player in question was rated a pg 7 when he attended a showcase in highschool and using the first name Jorge (unless the pg database is incorrect) The whole point being that parents and players should never get wrapped up in ratings.
Sometimes a kid doesn't have a good day at a PG showcase and gets graded less than he thinks he really should be graded. If the kid is a player that's confident in his abilities he will go out each day and try to improve no matter what the grade was. An 8.0 is a very, very good grade but it doesn't hold him up or hold him back. When it comes to recruitment it only matters what the recruiter sees. And recruiters see things entirely differently too! One coach might think your 8.0 son is fantastic. one might think your 8.0 is okay. In the end, the only thing that really matters is what the coach recruiting your son sees and how your son will fit in to their system.
This is just my perspective but my son participated in the PG Underclass this past December. We had a couple of young men on this team that were completely overwhelmed by the level of talent and still received a PG rating of 7.5. In my unexpert opnion, neither of the individuals displayed talent above mid-level D-III level. In PG rating scale, this would relate to a 3 or 4. My son had a poor showing as well and received a 7.5. I would have given him a 4 or 5. While I haven't looked at many of the profiles, I haven't seen a rating from that event below a 7.5 yet.
My son played with Christian Yelich at the first showcase for either of them. Christian was rated a 7.5 out of that showcase. We got a laugh when my son was rated a bit higher, but pitchers are a bit easier to rate. Christian didn't get a hit during the showcase and made some pretty poor swings against both soft pitching and hard pitching. I didn't see his BP, but his dad said he did pretty well. He ran fairly well but his arm strength was to put it kindly not evident and his throwing motion is a bit on the funky side to boot. PG saw something there to give him a 7.5 rating. We've known him from PONY league days and know that he's got one of the sweetest line drive swings you'll ever see but it wasn't evident at the showcase. PG has to go on what they see. Christian was rated much higher in short order but on the basis of his first showcase 7.5 was a generous rating to someone who had only seen him perform at that showcase. PG is pretty good at projecting but the kids have to show up on that day.
As far as the original question an 8.0 is pretty good but all it will do is get attention. The player will still have to perform in other situations. Showcases are a start but players actually get signed out of the big WWBA tournaments because the scouts/coaches can see them in a truly competitive environment.
As far as the original question an 8.0 is pretty good but all it will do is get attention. The player will still have to perform in other situations. Showcases are a start but players actually get signed out of the big WWBA tournaments because the scouts/coaches can see them in a truly competitive environment.
quote:Originally posted by eatersbaseball:
With all due respect, the player in question was rated a pg 7 when he attended a showcase in highschool and using the first name Jorge (unless the pg database is incorrect) The whole point being that parents and players should never get wrapped up in ratings.
Looks like your right.
http://www.perfectgame.org/Pla...rofile.aspx?ID=17491
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
As far as the original question an 8.0 is pretty good but all it will do is get attention.
How much attention is the big question
eatersbaseball,
I apologize, you are correct, good find. We just ran down the correct information. The Jorge thing had us confused. I should add that that was an underclassmen event and Tony actually improved a great deal over the next year or two. Then he improved even a lot more at Boston College. Still, if we were perfect, he would have been graded higher. Guess you could say that we missed on that one. He's not the only one!
Milt,
Your son is lucky you weren’t grading him.
Do you think our grade or yours is more accurate? We place more importance on tools and projection (potential) than bad results at one event.
It must be true that you haven’t looked at many of the profiles. There were almost 150 players at the National Underclass ranked below 7.5. Starts at no grade and 5s, lots of 6s. A 7 is a good grade, but it sounds pretty bad after reading your post. I’m pretty sure you didn’t mean it that way, but read your post again. Kind of a low blow to many kids who were there.
CADad,
You’re correct, the first time we saw Yelich we graded him a 7.5 at the Cal Underclass. Later that same year we graded him a 9.5 at another event. Had he attended one more event before the draft he would have been an easy 10, based on the fact we had him ranked 30th in the country.
BTW, I consider 8 a very good grade. Don’t know, but I’m guessing somewhere around 6.5-7 would be an average grade at PG events. Remember, the players who attend are a much higher level than the average high school player. Most every player comes to these events because they want to play at the next level. With that in mind we have players we graded a 6 that went on to play at a very high level of DI or professionally. We have had players we graded an 8 play at smaller colleges and never play professionally. Potential and the destination of that potential don’t always match for many reasons.
I apologize, you are correct, good find. We just ran down the correct information. The Jorge thing had us confused. I should add that that was an underclassmen event and Tony actually improved a great deal over the next year or two. Then he improved even a lot more at Boston College. Still, if we were perfect, he would have been graded higher. Guess you could say that we missed on that one. He's not the only one!
Milt,
Your son is lucky you weren’t grading him.
Do you think our grade or yours is more accurate? We place more importance on tools and projection (potential) than bad results at one event.quote:While I haven't looked at many of the profiles, I haven't seen a rating from that event below a 7.5 yet.
It must be true that you haven’t looked at many of the profiles. There were almost 150 players at the National Underclass ranked below 7.5. Starts at no grade and 5s, lots of 6s. A 7 is a good grade, but it sounds pretty bad after reading your post. I’m pretty sure you didn’t mean it that way, but read your post again. Kind of a low blow to many kids who were there.
CADad,
You’re correct, the first time we saw Yelich we graded him a 7.5 at the Cal Underclass. Later that same year we graded him a 9.5 at another event. Had he attended one more event before the draft he would have been an easy 10, based on the fact we had him ranked 30th in the country.
BTW, I consider 8 a very good grade. Don’t know, but I’m guessing somewhere around 6.5-7 would be an average grade at PG events. Remember, the players who attend are a much higher level than the average high school player. Most every player comes to these events because they want to play at the next level. With that in mind we have players we graded a 6 that went on to play at a very high level of DI or professionally. We have had players we graded an 8 play at smaller colleges and never play professionally. Potential and the destination of that potential don’t always match for many reasons.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
Based on my experience and other's, a pitcher with an 8 grade generally has the tools notable on a limited observation, to play on a decent D1 team. My son was an 8.5 RHP and had a decent college career (mid-major). The grade guarentees nothing, obviously. I've seen more talented players absolutley stink up the place until they got cut, transfered or quit.
Play in a PG event or showcase and you get graded, I think. wwww.perfectgame.org
With a 8.5 did he get drafted by any chance? There is a kid in the going pro section who got a 9.0 and is wondering if he will be drafted.
quote:Originally posted by bballforever:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
Based on my experience and other's, a pitcher with an 8 grade generally has the tools notable on a limited observation, to play on a decent D1 team. My son was an 8.5 RHP and had a decent college career (mid-major). The grade guarentees nothing, obviously. I've seen more talented players absolutley stink up the place until they got cut, transfered or quit.
Play in a PG event or showcase and you get graded, I think. wwww.perfectgame.org
With a 8.5 did he get drafted by any chance? There is a kid in the going pro section who got a 9.0 and is wondering if he will be drafted.
Where does it say one will ever get drafted?
My son was a 10 out of HS and not drafted, telling a young HS player you see no reason why he shouldn't get drafted somewhere, without ever seeing the player, knowing his circumstances in my opinion may not be the best advice.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Swampboy:
It's sort of like a sign on the highway that says "St. Louis 100 miles." It doesn't mean you're gonna get to St. Louis. It means the road you're on can take you to St. Louis if you keep going.
QUOTE]
Great quote Swampboy. I've been using the heck out of it!
It's sort of like a sign on the highway that says "St. Louis 100 miles." It doesn't mean you're gonna get to St. Louis. It means the road you're on can take you to St. Louis if you keep going.
QUOTE]
Great quote Swampboy. I've been using the heck out of it!
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Where does it say one will ever get drafted?
My son was a 10 out of HS and not drafted, telling a young HS player you see no reason why he shouldn't get drafted somewhere, without ever seeing the player, knowing his circumstances in my opinion may not be the best advice.
Wow, your son got a 10 and didnt get drafted
I gave an opinion saying I see no reason why he shouldn't. Do you know of a reason he wont?
Signability can be a major issue when it comes to being drafted out of HS as can injuries. Also not every player who gets drafted gets signed.
As an example, I believe in one local player's case the area scout was very high on him but the organization just didn't want to make a significant offer after people ahead of him on their depth chart signed so he was drafted but not signed.
That player seems to be doing very well in college.
Some players blossom after HS and just plain get missed out of HS. If one looks at the PG draft lists then one will see a lot of college players who are highly rated who weren't previously drafted.
As an example, I believe in one local player's case the area scout was very high on him but the organization just didn't want to make a significant offer after people ahead of him on their depth chart signed so he was drafted but not signed.
That player seems to be doing very well in college.
Some players blossom after HS and just plain get missed out of HS. If one looks at the PG draft lists then one will see a lot of college players who are highly rated who weren't previously drafted.
10 -- Potential very high draft pick, Top DI in the nation prospect
Key word - Potential! Nothing mentioned about getting drafted out of high school.
TPMs son we graded a 10. He went to a top DI program. He was drafted in the second round out of college. The fact he wasn't drafted out of high school doesn't change our opinion of "potential".
There's many reasons why some are drafted and others are not. Here's a couple more 10s... Matt Wieters wasn't drafted, Buster Posey was drafted in the 50th round out of high school. Obviously the 10 grade was accurate, but some might have doubted that at the time. And yes, there are 10s who never made it. Some players come closer to reaching their potential than others. Some surpass our opinion of their potential, others fall short.
Key word - Potential! Nothing mentioned about getting drafted out of high school.
TPMs son we graded a 10. He went to a top DI program. He was drafted in the second round out of college. The fact he wasn't drafted out of high school doesn't change our opinion of "potential".
There's many reasons why some are drafted and others are not. Here's a couple more 10s... Matt Wieters wasn't drafted, Buster Posey was drafted in the 50th round out of high school. Obviously the 10 grade was accurate, but some might have doubted that at the time. And yes, there are 10s who never made it. Some players come closer to reaching their potential than others. Some surpass our opinion of their potential, others fall short.
I don't believe Jason Stoffel or Brett Hunter were drafted out of HS just to mention a couple players from the Marmonte League. PG had Stoffel rated a 10. He signed in the 4th round out of college. Hunter didn't show up on the radar until relatively late but signed for about $1M out of college and was expected to be a 1st rounder for quite a while. It happens all the time.
quote:Originally posted by bballforever:
I gave an opinion saying I see no reason why he shouldn't. Do you know of a reason he wont?
I think that PG covered it and JH in the other topic, do I have a shot? I don't know if he won't what is your reason he will, based on his rating? Based on his velocity? Based on his size? Based on what?
JMO, we should encourage every player to work their hardest toward a goal, sometimes it takes a bit longer than others, as I used son as an example. It seemed to me that you were saying a 9 means automatic pick on draft day.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
It seemed to me that you were saying a 9 means automatic pick on draft day.
Never said that or implied it. Why are you bringing that up here anyway?
quote:Originally posted by bballforever:
If a 10 means you will be a high draft pick,
you stated there was a the kid over in the going pro section who had a 9 and you were wondering if he would be drafted.
In that section you told him you didn't see why he shouldn't be drafted.
It's a lot more than having a number, JMO.
Is it a good idea for him to let coaches know he got an 8.0 at schools he is interested in?
quote:Originally posted by bballforever:
Is it a good idea for him to let coaches know he got an 8.0 at schools he is interested in?
Why not, incorporate it into his bio.
As suggested, just make sure that you are targeting the schools that would be a good fit for your player.
I just wanted to make sure an 8.0 is a positive thing. I thought so before, but now I am thinking good baseball programs will look at an 8.0 and think we are only interested at going to see 9.0 and higher.
I think you're still missing the point. An 8.0 is an excellent rating. How could that not be a positive thing? Of course include it in his bio if you want.
But he still has to perform.
I know of a player whose best rating was a 7.5. He'll be at the #23 ranked JUCO in the country this fall. That's a pretty good baseball program in my book. The coach never asked him his PG rating.
I know another player who was an 8.0, top prospect 2 years in a row. He'll be lucky to step on a field anywhere due to grades and test scores.
It's clear that the evaluators at PG think pretty highly of your son's potential. Take it for what it is and move on.
But he still has to perform.
I know of a player whose best rating was a 7.5. He'll be at the #23 ranked JUCO in the country this fall. That's a pretty good baseball program in my book. The coach never asked him his PG rating.
I know another player who was an 8.0, top prospect 2 years in a row. He'll be lucky to step on a field anywhere due to grades and test scores.
It's clear that the evaluators at PG think pretty highly of your son's potential. Take it for what it is and move on.
quote:Originally posted by bballforever:
I just wanted to make sure an 8.0 is a positive thing. I thought so before, but now I am thinking good baseball programs will look at an 8.0 and think we are only interested at going to see 9.0 and higher.
I am not sure what the above means, "only interested in going to see 9 or higher"?
According to PG's rating:
8- potential mid round pick, definite D1 prospect
So what part of this are you not really understanding or do you just want to hear how good an 8 is?
PGStaff - I re-read my post that may have suggested an overall trend of overrating the average player at the National Underclass. I think I owe an apology to you and to anyone that may have been offended or discouraged by my comments. I respect your organization and the service you provide and certainly meant no disrespect to you or to any of the players that attend your events. I have looked at more profiles from the National Underclass and have seen some lower ratings but it did seem like the 7.5 was the most prevalent middle of the road grade. With regard to the rating for my son, I think you were generous to him in looking at the literal translation on your rating scale but I would never pretend that I would know how to better gauge his potential than someone that does it professionally. Again, I appreciate your work and hope you never let us "self proclaimed experts" cast doubt on your service.
2BMOM,
It's ok to say who the 7.5 at the #23 JUCO is....
It's ok to say who the 7.5 at the #23 JUCO is....
Busted! 
You guys should be playing by now - I hope your son is having a great season!
You guys should be playing by now - I hope your son is having a great season!
Yes,first game was last night. A nip and tuck 6-5 loss. But 2013 Son simply ecstatic to make Varsity. Good luck to 2B!
Excellent! Keep us posted in the HS reporting thread!
Sorry to hijack the thread, folks....carry on.
Sorry to hijack the thread, folks....carry on.
the huge piyfall with ratings is that people will be looking for the player to match or better it every time he steps on the field
I noticed grades 2-6 start with the word "possible" and grades 7-10 begin with "potential".
Just an observation to throw out there..........
"So you're saying there's a chance"
Just an observation to throw out there..........
"So you're saying there's a chance"