Following from an earlier question regarding what is the % of players who attended specific showcases go on to play in college, how many players do you think who play college ball attended a showcase?
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Not to be nit-picky, but what do you define as a showcase, other than the obvious?
* Is a college all star camp a showcase? (e.g. Stanford all star camp)
* Is a high profile tournament with lots of scouts/coaches a showcase? (e.g. WWBA World Championships - Jupiter)
* Is the USA Baseball Tournament of Stars a showcase? (8 team tournament of all stars from which USA Jr. National Team is chosen)
* Is an all star game (North/South in California) a showcase?
* Is the AFLAC All American Game (or others more regional or state) a showcase?
I would argue they're all a form of a showcase and thus I would guess very few college players have not showcased their skills.
* Is a college all star camp a showcase? (e.g. Stanford all star camp)
* Is a high profile tournament with lots of scouts/coaches a showcase? (e.g. WWBA World Championships - Jupiter)
* Is the USA Baseball Tournament of Stars a showcase? (8 team tournament of all stars from which USA Jr. National Team is chosen)
* Is an all star game (North/South in California) a showcase?
* Is the AFLAC All American Game (or others more regional or state) a showcase?
I would argue they're all a form of a showcase and thus I would guess very few college players have not showcased their skills.
High School Baseball Showcases
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/prospectwatch/index35.html
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/prospectwatch/index35.html
How many college players never attended a showcase? This is not an answerable question. No statistics are kept and everything would be by guesswork.
Yes, guys get signed in colleges without attending showcases. It varies by state, college and coach.
What comes to my mind is that this isn't your real question. Why don't you try re-stating your question a bit more meaningfully.
Yes, guys get signed in colleges without attending showcases. It varies by state, college and coach.
What comes to my mind is that this isn't your real question. Why don't you try re-stating your question a bit more meaningfully.
Yes, the question needs more refinement. I was trying to have people express their thoughts/experience with how important it is to attend a showcase camp that they "paid for," as opposed to an invitation camp or all-star selection or tournament with their team. In other words, if most attended at least one paid showcase camp somewhere, it could mean that that is the manner in which most players evaluated/recruited. I know there are no hard statistics, but I also know that you can get a sence for what many players think is important.
I can't speak for everyone else, but I know that when my son was contacting schools and attending tryouts, every one asked for his (select) summer team information and what showcases he had attended. Since the coaches all asked for this info, I am assuming the coaches all place a value on it.
My son is the only boy on his team that did not play on a good select team or go to showcases that I know of.
My son is the only boy on his team that did not play on a good select team or go to showcases that I know of.
I know there are MANY college players that don’t attend paid showcases...BUT...this in no way should be construed as my endorsement to just let “things” happen during the recruitment era of a high school baseball player. There are many high school players that have gone on to play college baseball that could have gone to a “better” situation had they showcased. The more options a player has, the better. If a player doesn’t showcase, and plays for a low-keyed summer team, sure he will be seen by some of the local colleges or possibly a college that has ties to the HS coach, but that is all.
Finding the right fit at a college is important for a player’s success. If a player has just one or two options, obtaining that good fit is a long shot at best.
Fungo
Finding the right fit at a college is important for a player’s success. If a player has just one or two options, obtaining that good fit is a long shot at best.
Fungo
With the porliferation of all the new events which seem to pop up every day-- showcases, tournaments, ID camps etal there cannot be too many players in college who have not done than playing HS ball
I would think any player doing more than HS ball is "showcasing" in some form or another
I would think any player doing more than HS ball is "showcasing" in some form or another
there is also a ton of players attending HS Showcases that have NO CHANCE playing college baseball what so ever. Just curious how many Showcase operators will turn down willing paying players who have no talent.
Fungo,
Good post! I agree wholeheartedly.
Good post! I agree wholeheartedly.
Nice post Fungo (once again!).
dominick - Put yourself in a college coach's place. Where can he go and get the most bang for his buck (or time)? A reputable showcase has more quality players than a game between 2 teams. More players are "discovered" at showcases, while more players are "followed" at HS and summer games.
Dibble - Not sure how a showcase operator of a non-invitational showcase would know ahead of time who should be there and who should not. But also speaking from the parents' side of things...anyone who wants to "take their shot at it" and can afford it (a parent has to make that decision)...why not? When our son went to his first, small local showcase, we had no idea whatsoever where he would fit. We didn't think he'd look foolish, but JC? D1? D2? D3? pro? We had no idea.
So I say take your best shot players/parents as long as you're not taking dinner off the table to do it.
dominick - Put yourself in a college coach's place. Where can he go and get the most bang for his buck (or time)? A reputable showcase has more quality players than a game between 2 teams. More players are "discovered" at showcases, while more players are "followed" at HS and summer games.
Dibble - Not sure how a showcase operator of a non-invitational showcase would know ahead of time who should be there and who should not. But also speaking from the parents' side of things...anyone who wants to "take their shot at it" and can afford it (a parent has to make that decision)...why not? When our son went to his first, small local showcase, we had no idea whatsoever where he would fit. We didn't think he'd look foolish, but JC? D1? D2? D3? pro? We had no idea.
So I say take your best shot players/parents as long as you're not taking dinner off the table to do it.
In "most" every way I think Fungo is correct. I hesitate to say all because of the reference to the "better" situation. My son did not attend any showcases in part because that was 5 years ago, in part because we didn't know about them and in part because nearly all the feedback we received including an All Star camp report was that he was a high quality DI middle infield prospect. I can assure that he and we mailed, faxed and called every coach on a list of 15 schools. One DIII coach recruited him like crazy and that was it. In retrospect would showcases have made a difference. Would they have gotten him a "better" situation? When questioned by a reporter after he was drafted from the DIII my son probably answered that question best when he said:
"I didn't get recruited highly out of Menlo," Armstrong said. "Trinity told me I could come in and play every day."
Armstrong started every game since his freshman year.
"It's been a great experience," he said. "If I went to a Division I school, I might've gotten picked higher, or I might've gotten overlooked."
In retrospect, I think showcases would have provided him more opportunities but am ambivalent about the "better" part.
"I didn't get recruited highly out of Menlo," Armstrong said. "Trinity told me I could come in and play every day."
Armstrong started every game since his freshman year.
"It's been a great experience," he said. "If I went to a Division I school, I might've gotten picked higher, or I might've gotten overlooked."
In retrospect, I think showcases would have provided him more opportunities but am ambivalent about the "better" part.
infield dad
The important thing is that your son is happy where he is---isn't that the goal ???
The important thing is that your son is happy where he is---isn't that the goal ???
TR, That is indeed the goal and that why I posted my son's quote. Playing, improving, being with friends, good academics and being where you are wanted and respected is what matters. It isn't "always" found through a showcase is the point I was trying to make but may not have. 
I also agree with Fungo that if you are a quality player and do not attend showcases, the way recruiting is set up these days you really limit the chances of finding the best fit.
I also agree with Fungo that if you are a quality player and do not attend showcases, the way recruiting is set up these days you really limit the chances of finding the best fit.
infielddad - Your son's story is an inspirational one in my book. Its a model that many young men can look too and emulate. I hope that someday I get the chance to meet him and shake his hand. He truly seems to have what it takes to make it in this world. I'll look forward to following him in whatever endeavor he pursues from baseball to what, law? 
Justbb, thank you!!!! Our son was really lucky. Got all the attributes from Mom's side to overcome the genetic issues from Dad's. 
(That was Mrs. Infielddad.) Had a wonderful conversation during the holidays and learned his career path is going to be in baseball. Until then we cross our fingers, toes, legs, arms--well you get the point and hope he can keep this dream going. 
(That was Mrs. Infielddad.) Had a wonderful conversation during the holidays and learned his career path is going to be in baseball. Until then we cross our fingers, toes, legs, arms--well you get the point and hope he can keep this dream going.
Dibble,
I am guessing........hmmmmmmmmmm.. about NONE!
I am guessing........hmmmmmmmmmm.. about NONE!
My son has been invited to more showcases, we can't keep track of all of them.
Most of which are out of state and are really expensive.
There are a few here in Chicago, but again they are not cheap either.
So, we are stuck! I have posted this before and I am going to post it again.
How can you get exposure if you can't afford the showcases?
Most of which are out of state and are really expensive.
There are a few here in Chicago, but again they are not cheap either.
So, we are stuck! I have posted this before and I am going to post it again.
How can you get exposure if you can't afford the showcases?
sox fan,
Here in Massachusetts we have what is known as the Bay State Games...I know New York has the Empire Games and Penn has an equivalent venue...ours cost app $30-40 for a weekend of baseball attended by 300 to 400 scouts...if your state has a similiar venue perhaps this maybe affordable...otherwise most showcases tend to be quite pricey
Here in Massachusetts we have what is known as the Bay State Games...I know New York has the Empire Games and Penn has an equivalent venue...ours cost app $30-40 for a weekend of baseball attended by 300 to 400 scouts...if your state has a similiar venue perhaps this maybe affordable...otherwise most showcases tend to be quite pricey
If you try to be a cheepy, you will screw your kid in the long run and be paying alot more tutition.
Cant tell you how many parents have told me they listen to another parent and did not attend and showcases and have no scholarship offers and are paying a ton in tutition.
PG game did a study a few years ago 96 of the top 100 hs players attended a major tournament or HS Showcase.
Cant tell you how many parents have told me they listen to another parent and did not attend and showcases and have no scholarship offers and are paying a ton in tutition.
PG game did a study a few years ago 96 of the top 100 hs players attended a major tournament or HS Showcase.
My son ended up at the his current college because of the Empire State Games. But not the games.. the tryouts! In NY, the $30 or $40 app fee covers up to 4 sessions of tryouts (showcase style) over several weeks. Recruiters and scouts at every session.
If your area offers a similar local or statewide event, definitely check it out.
If your area offers a similar local or statewide event, definitely check it out.
Sox fan,
You posted:
How did showcase promoters select your son to participate in showcases? Your son has obviously has had some exposure. Showcase promoters probably use many of the same techniques as college coaches to develop prospects. I'm a big advocate of showcases because showcases are the most effective, guaranteed, method of exposure. But a player can play college ball without showcasing. I would be more proactive in his recruitment. I would call some college coaches and explain that you son has interest in playing college baseball but showcases are not in your budget. See what their response is. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
You posted:
quote:My son has been invited to more showcases, we can't keep track of all of them.
Most of which are out of state and are really expensive.
How did showcase promoters select your son to participate in showcases? Your son has obviously has had some exposure. Showcase promoters probably use many of the same techniques as college coaches to develop prospects. I'm a big advocate of showcases because showcases are the most effective, guaranteed, method of exposure. But a player can play college ball without showcasing. I would be more proactive in his recruitment. I would call some college coaches and explain that you son has interest in playing college baseball but showcases are not in your budget. See what their response is. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
if you cant pay money to attend a hs showcase how are you gonna afford tutition. College coaches are not gonna wait around on any player or and rarely needto go out to see a player in HS. Why should they when they can attend a HS Showcase and find 50 players worth recruiting in one place
Dibble-
They afford tuition by taking out loans, just like everybody else. The myth of big baseball scholarships seems to live on
IMO, showcases are for one thing: to get a recruiter somewhere to be interested in you as a player.
It is not to get a scholarship and it is not to get signed.
A good showing in a showcase will generate interest, which will result in more communication, which is just another step along the way to being wanted by a team. Being wanted has to be a primary objective.
A poor showing can have the opposite effect, namely it can close doors. I know from personal experience what can happen if you pick the wrong day to have an "off day".
Thinking that a showcase will bring offers and scholarships is just being unrealistic. Please do not equate showcases and the cost of college.
They afford tuition by taking out loans, just like everybody else. The myth of big baseball scholarships seems to live on
IMO, showcases are for one thing: to get a recruiter somewhere to be interested in you as a player.
It is not to get a scholarship and it is not to get signed.
A good showing in a showcase will generate interest, which will result in more communication, which is just another step along the way to being wanted by a team. Being wanted has to be a primary objective.
A poor showing can have the opposite effect, namely it can close doors. I know from personal experience what can happen if you pick the wrong day to have an "off day".
Thinking that a showcase will bring offers and scholarships is just being unrealistic. Please do not equate showcases and the cost of college.
There is tons of players who gotten scholarship offers based on performance at a HS Showcase.
YOu can kill yourself to if you look bad too.
Exposure costs money, parents seem to have plenty of money for travel teams way before their kids even reach HS, plus lessons and baseball camps
YOu can kill yourself to if you look bad too.
Exposure costs money, parents seem to have plenty of money for travel teams way before their kids even reach HS, plus lessons and baseball camps
It has nothing to do with being "cheap". We don't all have fat cash burning holes in our pockets."Justbaseball" put it well when he said, as long as it doesn't take dinner off the table...it's kind of like an investment into your kid's college/education. I'm fortunate to live in FL where we have scouts all over. My son's best exposure was from the Junior Olympics and Perfect Game Tournaments in Jupiter and Fort Myers. Talk to your son's High School coach. Contact an old friend or long lost relative in Florida he could spend a summer with or find a travel team in your area taking a Florida trip. All the showcases have watered down the talentand we made some costly mistakes before getting on track.
Thank you to those who actually have given some great advice.
Dibble,
Not everyone can afford showcases. Not being cheap, just poor.
Dibble,
Not everyone can afford showcases. Not being cheap, just poor.
My suggestion regarding the inability to afford events.
Call or contact the people organizing the event and talk to them. Tell them the truth... You'd love to attend, but just can't afford it.
They may or may not be able to help you. So much is determined by the NCAA rules regarding this issue. However, many people are in this business because they really want to help young players.
If they can't help you attend their event, they might advise you on what you can do in order to be seen by scouts and college coaches without spending a lot of money. In our case this is beneficial because our major interest is in scouting whether it's at our events or a MLB tryout or anywhere else where we have contacts that we trust.
I recommend highly that all good players try to get the most exposure possible. It doesn't mean you can't get some college interest without... It does mean you will greatly expand your possibilities.
Always keep in mind that it's you yourself and your ability that creates the interest. All any showcase can do is give you the opportunity to show your ability.
Speaking on behalf of Perfect Game... If you can play... you'll get the appropriate interest be it first round or DI or DIII. If you can't play, you'll get very little if any interest.
Unless a player has at least college level potential, or just wants to be around top prospects, he'd be better off saving his money.
Call or contact the people organizing the event and talk to them. Tell them the truth... You'd love to attend, but just can't afford it.
They may or may not be able to help you. So much is determined by the NCAA rules regarding this issue. However, many people are in this business because they really want to help young players.
If they can't help you attend their event, they might advise you on what you can do in order to be seen by scouts and college coaches without spending a lot of money. In our case this is beneficial because our major interest is in scouting whether it's at our events or a MLB tryout or anywhere else where we have contacts that we trust.
I recommend highly that all good players try to get the most exposure possible. It doesn't mean you can't get some college interest without... It does mean you will greatly expand your possibilities.
Always keep in mind that it's you yourself and your ability that creates the interest. All any showcase can do is give you the opportunity to show your ability.
Speaking on behalf of Perfect Game... If you can play... you'll get the appropriate interest be it first round or DI or DIII. If you can't play, you'll get very little if any interest.
Unless a player has at least college level potential, or just wants to be around top prospects, he'd be better off saving his money.
I have 3 sons with D1 history.
Camps (at a school of your choice) are # 1 and Showcases # 2.
Without them you are rolling dice.
Budget for at least 2 camps and 2 PG or other nationally known showcases.
If you are realistic with your choices for camp attendance and get to showcases that expose your son to multiple college recruiter's, you'll be way ahead of the pack.
Good summer teams that travel to big time wood bat tourney's are a 3rd way to get noticed by the right people.
Camps (at a school of your choice) are # 1 and Showcases # 2.
Without them you are rolling dice.
Budget for at least 2 camps and 2 PG or other nationally known showcases.
If you are realistic with your choices for camp attendance and get to showcases that expose your son to multiple college recruiter's, you'll be way ahead of the pack.
Good summer teams that travel to big time wood bat tourney's are a 3rd way to get noticed by the right people.
quote:Originally posted by Dibble:
there is also a ton of players attending HS Showcases that have NO CHANCE playing college baseball what so ever. Just curious how many Showcase operators will turn down willing paying players who have no talent.
The top96 IN New England turns them down every year. They get over 500 applications for 100 spots - which is why over 100 coaches attend annually. They post which coaches came on their website...you don't have to write and ask.....very upfront organization.
I am very skeptical here...95% of your posts address Top 96...it would appear you are connected with that organization...would be alot nicer and certainly more ethical to state that fact instead of attempting to delude others by inferring you are a bballparent
Did you borrow the trenchcoat Mary? 
Maybe it's a crafty lefty?
quote:Originally posted by bballparent:quote:Originally posted by Dibble:
there is also a ton of players attending HS Showcases that have NO CHANCE playing college baseball what so ever. Just curious how many Showcase operators will turn down willing paying players who have no talent.
The top96 IN New England turns them down every year. They get over 500 applications for 100 spots - which is why over 100 coaches attend annually. They post which coaches came on their website...you don't have to write and ask.....very upfront organization.
I beg to differ.
Every showcase/camp/tournament we have ever dealt with treated my son and I in a very professional and couteous way.
We have traveled from Texas to Puerto Rico - and just about everywhere else in between.
With one exception - TOP96.
Worst and most rude treatment I have ever received - treated us like dogs.
Is it a good showcase. Yes. I have said that before.
But please - the upfront stuff is a total crock from my perspective.
You asked for it, bball"parent"...
Can't speak for the rest, but the Mid-Atlantic TOP96 was a complete bust this year. They claim to have over 100 coaches in attendance. Maybe they were all in New England, cuz we never saw anything close. Competition was weak. Only good thing was the venue - nice facility. I could not, however, recommend to anyone. Plenty of better choices in Mid-Atlantic and South.
Can't speak for the rest, but the Mid-Atlantic TOP96 was a complete bust this year. They claim to have over 100 coaches in attendance. Maybe they were all in New England, cuz we never saw anything close. Competition was weak. Only good thing was the venue - nice facility. I could not, however, recommend to anyone. Plenty of better choices in Mid-Atlantic and South.
No connection to TOP96, but when my brother went through the showcase route, TOP96 was by far the most beneficial. This was back when they only had the one in Lowell, Mass. It probably has to with the fact that he was recruited the most by small NE schools. The same schools probably got reports from College Select and PG, but because Top96 was so small, I think coaches got their best reads on him at that event.
It was also far less expensive than most other showcases...probably because it is a non-profit. But my guess is that everybody has different experiences. I also will say that TR and College Select staff were very helpful in giving my brother an accurate read ofthe right colleges to look at.
It was also far less expensive than most other showcases...probably because it is a non-profit. But my guess is that everybody has different experiences. I also will say that TR and College Select staff were very helpful in giving my brother an accurate read ofthe right colleges to look at.
We did not shell out a ton of money to PG or other national showcases. My son did a few regional camps and showcases and has gotten interest from throughout the midwest. We did send out profiles, letters, etc. My son is one of a nearly extinct athlete who plays 3 sports in high school. That was part of his problem - he is nearly always in the middle of a season. Some baseball coaches love this - they are attracted to the "athlete" - others are looking for something else or are only willing to travel to the showcases. We worried about what he was missing but were not willing to "make him" quit football or quit basketball. It all seems to be working out. I would say find some way to be proactive that fits into your son's hopes and plans. There's not just one path that works.
It seems like everyone pretty much agrees that showcases can get your kid noticed. In our case, we lucked out. Got lots of letters and questionaires. Had the intention of hitting a couple high profile showcases but sometimes life interferes with the best of intentions. After his 10th grade yr, he separated his shoulder and luckily we got back the money we spent for a fall showcase team that travelled down south each weekend. After his 11th grade yr, I got laid off from work. As a result, we didn't really have any and I do mean any extra money for showcasing. My mom was kind enough to pay for the showcase out at Notre Dame only to have his legion team go to regionals. He wouldn't let his team down so we lost that money. Did go to the Blue & Grey at W&M but sort of felt like that was a waste of our money.
Luckily, we didn't spend a fortune because he wound up not having the 2.5 GPA needed for D1 anyway. Could've maybe gotten some interest down south from some of the D2 and D3's but he kept getting closer and closer to home in the interest he had of schools. And then, you just never know who's watching. In our case, he did luck out by making it to the Carpenter Cup which is a tri-state event played in Phila every yr. He made the team 3 yrs. in a row. $35 charge to play in the Philly stadium until your team loses. I guess that would be considered a select team that basically has tryouts from the schools in each area.
His final choices came down to schools where he was recommended by opposing coaches from HS and Legion ball and thankfully it has been a good fit both academically and baseball wise. Grades are actually better than HS and they made it to 1 game from the DIII WS this yr and he saw a good amount of playing time considering he was a freshman. I guess I'm being long winded but just want you to know, if you can showcase and afford it, do it but I would probably have aimed for the PG event if I'd had the money. But, don't give up because if your kid gets a reputation w/the opposing coaches, they apparently do recommend kids without you even knowing it. We only knew from the college coaches telling us who recommended him and them getting to see him play in Philly after their recommendations.
Luckily, we didn't spend a fortune because he wound up not having the 2.5 GPA needed for D1 anyway. Could've maybe gotten some interest down south from some of the D2 and D3's but he kept getting closer and closer to home in the interest he had of schools. And then, you just never know who's watching. In our case, he did luck out by making it to the Carpenter Cup which is a tri-state event played in Phila every yr. He made the team 3 yrs. in a row. $35 charge to play in the Philly stadium until your team loses. I guess that would be considered a select team that basically has tryouts from the schools in each area.
His final choices came down to schools where he was recommended by opposing coaches from HS and Legion ball and thankfully it has been a good fit both academically and baseball wise. Grades are actually better than HS and they made it to 1 game from the DIII WS this yr and he saw a good amount of playing time considering he was a freshman. I guess I'm being long winded but just want you to know, if you can showcase and afford it, do it but I would probably have aimed for the PG event if I'd had the money. But, don't give up because if your kid gets a reputation w/the opposing coaches, they apparently do recommend kids without you even knowing it. We only knew from the college coaches telling us who recommended him and them getting to see him play in Philly after their recommendations.
For DRIVEL
"Cheepy" has to do with birds--that is what they do when the sun rises every morning as they awaken in their nests
Has nothing to do with money
"Cheepy" has to do with birds--that is what they do when the sun rises every morning as they awaken in their nests
Has nothing to do with money
quote:Originally posted by catchermom03:
I am very skeptical here...95% of your posts address Top 96...it would appear you are connected with that organization...would be alot nicer and certainly more ethical to state that fact instead of attempting to delude others by inferring you are a bballparent
