How Not to be a HS Sports Dad - Chapter 762

This goes with something that has been weighing on me. Maybe it's better as a separate post, but it seems to fit here.

We started the day yesterday with the news that a student in our HS had committed suicide. It's the second one in my son's four years of HS. The first was one of his best friends. While he didn't know this most recent person well, he and some of his group are now reliving their grief all over again.

It just reminds me that we as parents sometimes forget to just love and enjoy our kids. We get too wrapped up in what another kid said or did, what a coach said or did, or making sure our kids get all the opportunities we want for them.

Going to focus on loving my son the next few weeks — and hugging the stuffing out of him, if I can reach him now that he's 10 inches taller than me. 

Good post Cabbage.  Who hasn't seen this? I'm sure we all have.  I have and it just makes one shake their head in amazement at such lack of perspective and self and situational awareness.  It is good to put these types of stories out there, because I think...well, more likely, I hope...that deep down these type of actors know who they are and maybe it will help them to realize that we are all watching in bewilderment, amazement, sadness, etc.  Not to sound overly dramatic, but you are absolutely right.  It damages and perhaps ruins parent-child relationships.

With all the games we have seen yes there are a few parents who get over emotionally involved.  I came to the conclusion that either one day the parent may come to their own senses and realize what they are doing.  On the other hand the other 99% spectators/parents will see and hear what is happening and if anything like myself will do a reality gut check to see if I am behaving appropriately.  Sad but we need a reminder by watching someone else to make sure we aren't that person.  My take is that I want to enjoy the game, players, and son and my enjoyment isn't dictated by others, as long as it is clean, non-threatening, and non-personal (race, intelligence, etc).  

Just move away from him.  You can't help.  OPP (Other Person's Problem).

cabbagedad posted:

I sat at a HS varsity event last week and had a dad sitting a few rows in front of me. I've been observing this man's "act" for a few years now. His son is a junior, talented but won't end up beyond a small school/low level in college (with his sport). They are lifetime club ballers and, no doubt, had bigger aspirations. The player is getting his moments in the spotlight but he and the team are struggling. The dad is knowledgeable in the sport and makes sure everyone knows it with the depth of his regular in-game criticism/shouts, mostly directed at his son but sometimes at other individual players and the team in general. The relationship is such that the son feels the need to regularly look up in the stands for dad's reaction.  I have seen Mom walk away from where Dad is sitting on more than one occasion.  She looks a bit emotionally beaten down to me.  Dad seems to be constantly somewhere between irritated and miserable. I have rarely seen him enjoy a moment of his son's HS experience.  It's ALL about his son's performance and whether the rest of the team's actions are helping or hindering that performance.  As his son's junior year is very nearly over, I fear that Dad is running out of time to "see the light".

We've all seen varying degrees of this play out time and time again.  I'm not sure why this particular one bothers me so much that I felt compelled to share.  I just see, clear as can be, that the future father-son relationship is going to suffer because, IMO, love for son is being manifested in a very counter-productive and likely harmful manner.

Parents can choose to be a positive support arm to their kids' HS experience and enjoy it together or they can choose otherwise.

^Shu’s definition of “burnout.” 

I would rather quit and have some peace at home versus continue to play and have dad hate me. 

Go44dad posted:

Just move away from him.  You can't help.  OPP (Other Person's Problem).

Haha... you know me pretty well.  I have good tolerance for a wide range of parent behavior, but this one...  I just want to shake him into some sort of self-realization for the kid's sake.  I'm struggling with exactly what you said.  I probably can't help and probably should stay out of it but... seeing a serious train wreck about to happen, I really want to find a lever to pull.

cabbagedad posted:

Go44dad posted:

Just move away from him.  You can't help.  OPP (Other Person's Problem).

Haha... you know me pretty well.  I have good tolerance for a wide range of parent behavior, but this one...  I just want to shake him into some sort of self-realization for the kid's sake.  I'm struggling with exactly what you said.  I probably can't help and probably should stay out of it but... seeing a serious train wreck about to happen, I really want to find a lever to pull.

I don't know if you can do this without being a creepy dad (instead of a sports dad), but maybe ignore the dad? He may be too far gone. Sounds to me the son, on the other hand, may need to hear from time to time that he's doing okay.

Or maybe just chatting with mom and letting her know that you enjoy her son. Sometimes once you strike up those relationships, there's an opportunity to say in a light hearted and yet pointed way — "yea I remember when I got all wound up about (whatever just went wrong). It took a long time to let go, but once I did my kid and I really reconnected."

Not sure how close you are to any of these people. We were lucky enough to have another parent intervene with my husband and make a point that I couldn't. And now when he misbehaves, I just say to him "remember what Stacey said about doing that" and he'll quit without getting cranky with me.

Lots of options, none of them easy, and few likely to be successful.

Any input from you in person will likely not be taken well, in my opinion (I know you didn't ask for it).

As a father who has severely throttled back myself, I can tell you that at my peak, anyone telling me to calm down or whatever would have likely started a riff. Is your kid on the team? If not, your input will not be welcome to an even higher degree. What's a guy to do? Strike up a friendship with the Mom and backhanded jabs at the father's behavior in their presence. That's not going to sit well if the guy has 1/2 a brain. If the athlete and parent were playing on a team you coach, then you have every right to address the parent as it impacts your team. As a spectator, not so much.

You could send him an anonymous letter telling him how this is putting his relationship with his son in peril, but you really don't know that. They may have a great relationship. My son and I were are a batting cage at a local park recently (so Joes87, that would imply there is no snow on the ground where I am at) and there was a club team game going on next to us, probably 9U game. Dad on the fence line going crazy during the game, his son's team coach on 3B allowing the behavior to go on without comment. My son looks at me in the cages and he just smiled at me. He knows that I changed my behavior for him, and how ridiculous it looks.

A great coach we had the privilege of playing for told us once "If you as a parent are taking the wins/losses harder than the player, that's a problem." He isn't insinuating the player needs to get more competitive, quite the opposite. He said "The only thing I want to hear you tell your son is great job and that you love him...that is it."

Hmmm...I can beat that.  I coached our local rec/travel teams from the time my son was 8 thru junior high.  A kid a year younger was a good player...and probably could have been really good...if not for his nutjob of a father.  The guy brought a scorebook to games starting in 5th grade....not to keep track of his son, but to keep track of others so he could question the coaches (not me at that point) about why his son wasn't batting #4 or playing SS every game.  When his son got to my team as a 7th grader, I flat out told him that the crap was over...or he could stay home lol.  I think he respected me as a coach enough that he agreed.  His kid did well the  next two years.  He got to HS and the dad went right back to being his old self....and the kid never got any better.   If any of you guys were a fan of HardCore Pawn you've seen him....yep, the radar gun guy    It's season 4, episode 7 if you want to google it....about 11 minutes in.....enjoy.    To be fair, he was a nut....but not nearly the nut like he is portrayed on the show.....though most people here seemed to think of him exactly that way.  I know him well enough to know that some of the show was embellished...but not all of it lol

We can only embellish what already exists in reality

cabbagedad posted:

Go44dad posted:

Just move away from him.  You can't help.  OPP (Other Person's Problem).

Haha... you know me pretty well.  I have good tolerance for a wide range of parent behavior, but this one...  I just want to shake him into some sort of self-realization for the kid's sake.  I'm struggling with exactly what you said.  I probably can't help and probably should stay out of it but... seeing a serious train wreck about to happen, I really want to find a lever to pull.

OK, here is my take - which is easy to say since it isn't my problem.  We are all here for a reason.  Maybe you witnessed this and it bothered you so much that HE wants you to help this dad see his ways and maybe start enjoying his son's journey.  How and what you say IDK, but if HE wants you to say something he will give you words to speak.  I actually dealt with something like this and just said something small.  maybe you should sit next to him next game and point out the small things he is missing and talk about how much you enjoy watching everyone play.  just my $.02

You want to know what's worse than a Dad who berates his own kid?  A dad who berates other people's kids.  We had one of those.  We spoke up -- directly to the dad and to our coach.  The dad was gone the next season (so was the kid -- who was a great kid by the way).  That was travel ball -- much harder to do with school ball.  

Midwest Mom posted:

You want to know what's worse than a Dad who berates his own kid?  A dad who berates other people's kids.  We had one of those.  We spoke up -- directly to the dad and to our coach.  The dad was gone the next season (so was the kid -- who was a great kid by the way).  That was travel ball -- much harder to do with school ball.  

The worst thing my son ever said about a coach? “Mom, I think he likes me better than his own kid.”

I will never condone the acts of overbearing helicopter parents. Parents like that hinder a kids development more that they can possibly realize - and the parent/child relationship can suffer for certain.  On the flip side, however, I think some of the outrageous behavior is fueled by a rude awakening once a player gets to the HS level - and this is the case in all sports that have a select (or travel) component (baseball, basketball, volleyball, soccer, etc.)  Parents with kids in these sports often pay tens of thousands of dollars in private lessons and team fees to develop a player in preparation for HS. Only to get there and find a program that doesn't win, is poorly run, lacks discipline, and is way inferior to the club ball they are accustomed to.  And nobody cares.  It is a huge disappointment and people freak out. None of this is right IMO but it sure seems to commonplace.  That's why I say if you have a good HS coach count your lucky stars and stay the hell out of his way!    

adbono posted:

I will never condone the acts of overbearing helicopter parents. Parents like that hinder a kids development more that they can possibly realize - and the parent/child relationship can suffer for certain.  On the flip side, however, I think some of the outrageous behavior is fueled by a rude awakening once a player gets to the HS level - and this is the case in all sports that have a select (or travel) component (baseball, basketball, volleyball, soccer, etc.)  Parents with kids in these sports often pay tens of thousands of dollars in private lessons and team fees to develop a player in preparation for HS. Only to get there and find a program that doesn't win, is poorly run, lacks discipline, and is way inferior to the club ball they are accustomed to.  And nobody cares.  It is a huge disappointment and people freak out. None of this is right IMO but it sure seems to commonplace.  That's why I say if you have a good HS coach count your lucky stars and stay the hell out of his way!    

Or the other rude awakening is your kid isn’t as good as you, or the kid, thought. That’s a hard pill to swallow and many don’t do it gracefully. 

Iowamom23 posted:

adbono posted:

I will never condone the acts of overbearing helicopter parents. Parents like that hinder a kids development more that they can possibly realize - and the parent/child relationship can suffer for certain.  On the flip side, however, I think some of the outrageous behavior is fueled by a rude awakening once a player gets to the HS level - and this is the case in all sports that have a select (or travel) component (baseball, basketball, volleyball, soccer, etc.)  Parents with kids in these sports often pay tens of thousands of dollars in private lessons and team fees to develop a player in preparation for HS. Only to get there and find a program that doesn't win, is poorly run, lacks discipline, and is way inferior to the club ball they are accustomed to.  And nobody cares.  It is a huge disappointment and people freak out. None of this is right IMO but it sure seems to commonplace.  That's why I say if you have a good HS coach count your lucky stars and stay the hell out of his way!    

Or the other rude awakening is your kid isn’t as good as you, or the kid, thought. That’s a hard pill to swallow and many don’t do it gracefully. 

Yes, that too.

Iowamom23 posted:

adbono posted:

I will never condone the acts of overbearing helicopter parents. Parents like that hinder a kids development more that they can possibly realize - and the parent/child relationship can suffer for certain.  On the flip side, however, I think some of the outrageous behavior is fueled by a rude awakening once a player gets to the HS level - and this is the case in all sports that have a select (or travel) component (baseball, basketball, volleyball, soccer, etc.)  Parents with kids in these sports often pay tens of thousands of dollars in private lessons and team fees to develop a player in preparation for HS. Only to get there and find a program that doesn't win, is poorly run, lacks discipline, and is way inferior to the club ball they are accustomed to.  And nobody cares.  It is a huge disappointment and people freak out. None of this is right IMO but it sure seems to commonplace.  That's why I say if you have a good HS coach count your lucky stars and stay the hell out of his way!    

Or the other rude awakening is your kid isn’t as good as you, or the kid, thought. That’s a hard pill to swallow and many don’t do it gracefully. 

This happens all the time with the boys who hit puberty a little earlier than their peers. They are dominant in, say, 8th grade, and as time goes on that dominance fades, just because their peers catch up physically.

Or, that kid who had all that money invested in him is not as good as the kid who has had nothing invested in him? He is simply bigger, stronger, more athletic, more talented and he didn't even play travel ball? He never even made the All Stars? He didn't even play fall ball? I mean I have invested all of this and no one is going to stop me from realizing my dream. Not even  you son who is now starting to take interest in things other than baseball. Stupid stuff like girls? Cars? Hanging out with guys who don't even play baseball? That's why your not starting you have lost focus!!!!! Of course you can always fall back on the old faithful. "The Coach."

The most important relationship you will ever have and your too stupid to even realize it. Your so determined that your son is going to realize your dream you destroy any chance of having a relationship with him. You make the entire HS experience a living hell for your family and those around you. And then one day you want a hunting buddy but he doesn't have time. You want to take him fishing but he doesn't have time. I wonder why?

I used to get pissed when I heard this statement. "It's just a game." Now I say your dad gum right. Play it hard. Work at it hard. Enjoy every moment. And never let it get in the way of those you love because "Its just a game."

I lived with a woman whose son was a stud tennis player. He played #1 singles as a high school freshman at a ranked private school. He was on the cover of the top high school sports magazine in the state. The kid played an exhibition at the US Open as a high school soph.

I was standing with him chatting after he won an important club invitational summer tournament in front of colleges coaches. His father stormed up and only said, “You will never make #1 singles at Princeton playing like that!” Then he stormed off in a huff.

i can understand discussing technical issues the next day. But not right after he won the tournament and not acknowledging he won. 

The kid sometimes asked me to go to the court and volley. I couldn’t compete with him. He would kick my tail. But I could hit with him while he worked on his game. He said because I didn’t know the technicalities of playing tennis I didn’t  criticize him. He could just relax and swing. He said when he hit with his father he would often have to get a ride home with someone else the criticism got so bad.

The next year after winning a tournament the kid cracked. After winning a tournament the father walked up and criticized his play. The kid proceeded to bust up both rackets. He handed a sharp end to his father and suggested where he could place it. He quit the club team. He quit private lessons. He started seeing a psychiatrist. Other than high school he never played competitive tennis again. I never saw this coming. The kid was always so easy going off the court. On the court he was a composed killer. When his dad went off he never did more than walk away. He never talked back. He must have got tired of holding it in.

The dad stood there among the busted up rackets and proceeded to tell the kid he lacked what it takes to be a premiere tennis player. For the first time I spoke up. I told the dad to stop living through his son. You can imagine the response this got. All the dad was expecting was the kid to attend Princeton, get a degree in engineering, then turn pro.

The kid is now 27. He went to a Big Ten in the Midwest to get away from his father and majored in engineering. He’s now living happily ever after playing in house tournaments at his tennis club. 

I learned everything I needed to know about post game from my son when he was nine. This exchange took place after a U10 travel soccer championship game his team won and he starred ....

ME: That was awesome! What did the coach say after the game?

HIM: He said we played well. What’s for lunch?

ME: He must have said more than that!

HIM: He said we stayed in our positions well (holding position and everyone not chasing the ball is a big issue for young soccer players). Can I have a PlayStation for Christmas? 

My son always had the ability to flip the switch after a game. With a loss it sometimes took until he had the food. When he was picked off first to end high school soph season it took until after dinner and starting homework. Even in college he sometimes commented he was just as much a student as anything else and tune out the distractions. He’s a young adult now. I still marvel at how he tunes out five minutes ago with a “what’s next?” approach.

I wonder how young the kid was when this started.  12u the assistant dad coach filled us all in on the winter drills the kids needed to be doing during our winter practices.  It was a very detailed obstacle course/stations day.  It was brutal, even for an athletic kid.  He proudly announced his son did these drills every day.  I remember thinking, EVERY day? How is the kid not a pile of mush?  Spring came around and the kid who use to be the fastest on the team was darn near hobbled.  Both his knees hurt very badly.  Saw him during 15u, he's now fairly slow, still walks with a near limp, and his dad is still in stands screaming at him to do it better.  The kid flipped him the bird....while he was in the field in the middle of a game.  That relationship is pretty much dead I'm thinking.

I've said this before, but I was way to hard on Ryno when he was a young player.  Rides home for him were not pleasant, and I am not proud of that.  However, I was able to realize what was happening, and how it wasn't productive.  I cared about our relationship, and I knew I was damaging our future.  

My issue wasn't ever really about his play, it was the cockiness.  I never wanted him to think he was too good, because I knew that he needed to work very hard in order to reach his goals.  I had good intentions, but I took it too far.  

I mention me as an example, because people can change.  There were many experiences that I am sure contributed to me figuring it out, and I am very grateful that I did.  I made a conscious decision to be the "good cop", and I let the coach be the "bad cop".  

Hopefully, the dad in the OP will figure it out before it is too late.  If he was a dad on my son's team, I would probably share my experience with him, and try to help him understand the damage he is doing.

RJM posted:

I lived with a woman whose son was a stud tennis player. He played #1 singles as a high school freshman at a ranked private school. He was on the cover of the top high school sports magazine in the state. The kid played an exhibition at the US Open as a high school soph.

I was standing with him chatting after he won an important club invitational summer tournament in front of colleges coaches. His father stormed up and only said, “You will never make #1 singles at Princeton playing like that!” Then he stormed off in a huff.

i can understand discussing technical issues the next day. But not right after he won the tournament and not acknowledging he won. 

The kid sometimes asked me to go to the court and volley. I couldn’t compete with him. He would kick my tail. But I could hit with him while he worked on his game. He said because I didn’t know the technicalities of playing tennis I didn’t  criticize him. He could just relax and swing. He said when he hit with his father he would often have to get a ride home with someone else the criticism got so bad.

The next year after winning a tournament the kid cracked. After winning a tournament the father walked up and criticized his play. The kid proceeded to bust up both rackets. He handed a sharp end to his father and suggested where he could place it. He quit the club team. He quit private lessons. He started seeing a psychiatrist. Other than high school he never played competitive tennis again. I never saw this coming. The kid was always so easy going off the court. On the court he was a composed killer. When his dad went off he never did more than walk away. He never talked back. He must have got tired of holding it in.

The dad stood there among the busted up rackets and proceeded to tell the kid he lacked what it takes to be a premiere tennis player. For the first time I spoke up. I told the dad to stop living through his son. You can imagine the response this got. All the dad was expecting was the kid to attend Princeton, get a degree in engineering, then turn pro.

The kid is now 27. He went to a Big Ten in the Midwest to get away from his father and majored in engineering. He’s now living happily ever after playing in house tournaments at his tennis club. 

Isn’t it amazing how most of the people who know what it takes to play at the highest level, never played at the highest level?

Iowamom23 posted:

The worst thing my son ever said about a coach? “Mom, I think he likes me better than his own kid.”

This happened to us personally when we started travel team at age 8. Super nice guy, but Coach Dad was hard on his own kid (not hateful though). At the same time he clearly favored our kid and offered lots of praise. Everyone noticed it, including his wife. We found out his wife finally said something to him about it. It was awkward for us so I can only imagine how his son felt.     

adbono posted:

I will never condone the acts of overbearing helicopter parents. Parents like that hinder a kids development more that they can possibly realize - and the parent/child relationship can suffer for certain.  On the flip side, however, I think some of the outrageous behavior is fueled by a rude awakening once a player gets to the HS level - and this is the case in all sports that have a select (or travel) component (baseball, basketball, volleyball, soccer, etc.)  Parents with kids in these sports often pay tens of thousands of dollars in private lessons and team fees to develop a player in preparation for HS. Only to get there and find a program that doesn't win, is poorly run, lacks discipline, and is way inferior to the club ball they are accustomed to.  And nobody cares.  It is a huge disappointment and people freak out. None of this is right IMO but it sure seems to commonplace.  That's why I say if you have a good HS coach count your lucky stars and stay the hell out of his way!    

agreed about the decline of high school ball and its sad.  Son played as a freshman and taking a pass as a sophomore.  Will just play full time travel.  Problem is coaches who know what they are doing have their hand out now.  Used to be they were teachers and coaches and would help kids because it was the right thing to do.  So whats now left behind in high schools is mostly younger kids coaching like the team is there personal play toy. 

RJM posted:

I lived with a woman whose son was a stud tennis player. He played #1 singles as a high school freshman at a ranked private school. He was on the cover of the top high school sports magazine in the state. The kid played an exhibition at the US Open as a high school soph.

I was standing with him chatting after he won an important club invitational summer tournament in front of colleges coaches. His father stormed up and only said, “You will never make #1 singles at Princeton playing like that!” Then he stormed off in a huff.

i can understand discussing technical issues the next day. But not right after he won the tournament and not acknowledging he won. 

The kid sometimes asked me to go to the court and volley. I couldn’t compete with him. He would kick my tail. But I could hit with him while he worked on his game. He said because I didn’t know the technicalities of playing tennis I didn’t  criticize him. He could just relax and swing. He said when he hit with his father he would often have to get a ride home with someone else the criticism got so bad.

The next year after winning a tournament the kid cracked. After winning a tournament the father walked up and criticized his play. The kid proceeded to bust up both rackets. He handed a sharp end to his father and suggested where he could place it. He quit the club team. He quit private lessons. He started seeing a psychiatrist. Other than high school he never played competitive tennis again. I never saw this coming. The kid was always so easy going off the court. On the court he was a composed killer. When his dad went off he never did more than walk away. He never talked back. He must have got tired of holding it in.

The dad stood there among the busted up rackets and proceeded to tell the kid he lacked what it takes to be a premiere tennis player. For the first time I spoke up. I told the dad to stop living through his son. You can imagine the response this got. All the dad was expecting was the kid to attend Princeton, get a degree in engineering, then turn pro.

The kid is now 27. He went to a Big Ten in the Midwest to get away from his father and majored in engineering. He’s now living happily ever after playing in house tournaments at his tennis club. 

So sad. I hope they mended their relationship after that incident. This reminded me of the "Trophy Kids" documentary that came out a few years ago - lots of good advice on what not to do in the stories they feature. 

adbono posted:

I will never condone the acts of overbearing helicopter parents. Parents like that hinder a kids development more that they can possibly realize - and the parent/child relationship can suffer for certain.  On the flip side, however, I think some of the outrageous behavior is fueled by a rude awakening once a player gets to the HS level - and this is the case in all sports that have a select (or travel) component (baseball, basketball, volleyball, soccer, etc.)  Parents with kids in these sports often pay tens of thousands of dollars in private lessons and team fees to develop a player in preparation for HS. Only to get there and find a program that doesn't win, is poorly run, lacks discipline, and is way inferior to the club ball they are accustomed to.  And nobody cares.  It is a huge disappointment and people freak out. None of this is right IMO but it sure seems to commonplace.  That's why I say if you have a good HS coach count your lucky stars and stay the hell out of his way!    

And if you don't have a good HS coach, do the same thing.

rynoattack posted:

I've said this before, but I was way to hard on Ryno when he was a young player.  Rides home for him were not pleasant, and I am not proud of that.  However, I was able to realize what was happening, and how it wasn't productive.  I cared about our relationship, and I knew I was damaging our future.  

My issue wasn't ever really about his play, it was the cockiness.  I never wanted him to think he was too good, because I knew that he needed to work very hard in order to reach his goals.  I had good intentions, but I took it too far.  

I mention me as an example, because people can change.  There were many experiences that I am sure contributed to me figuring it out, and I am very grateful that I did.  I made a conscious decision to be the "good cop", and I let the coach be the "bad cop".  

Hopefully, the dad in the OP will figure it out before it is too late.  If he was a dad on my son's team, I would probably share my experience with him, and try to help him understand the damage he is doing.

 

I was (and still occasionally are) too hard on my sons, and frankly one of the first steps toward my "recovery" was finding this site several years before I had a kid old enough for most of these topics to be a concern. It provided me with some perspective I badly needed, and threads like this are a nice refresher. 

Once I realized that my actions in the stands/parking lot/snack bar could be as big a barrier to recruitment as an 0-4 day by my son, I changed my behavior. That's all it took.

I believe that the parent(s) who yell and berate do so because that is how they were treated growing up or this is the only way to get through to their kid.  They still want what's best for the kid but expresses themselves in an undesirable way.  I hate to say it but many of the kids I've seen give up the game or never make it at the next level.  Each level your son advances will require more love of the game and dedication.  Eventually they will have enough and hang it up.  Some say they just ignore the yellers and that is how they become mentally tough.  Ignoring doesn't produce toughness, listening, understanding and applying leads to mental toughness and understanding the game (IMO).  Perhaps deep down I realize those parents who yell will eventually drive their son out of the game, and this may open an opportunity for another player to get a chance to show what he has to offer.  You can only help those who want the help or are open minded to accept it..

Most people would probably say I was too tough on my son as he was growing up.  I coached his local teams from t-ball thru Junior High then ran a 15U/16U team he was on.  I don't think it every really got to the point of him being real upset but we did get into some heated arguments over the years.  I will say this....when he got his offer (and committed) we were standing in a parking lot after a travel game.  He hung up with the coach....and just kind of stood there.  I said something to the effect of "well, I know we had some tough times along the way...but was it worth it?"   He got a big smile....gave me a fist bump and said "yep"    That's about as much excitement as he shows lol....so I guess it was good

We have a crazy local dad. Either his kid, the umpire or coaching staff is under assault most of the game. Our kids hit close to each other in the lineup. I purposely sit next to him and let him see that I'm recording. It's about 95% effective in shutting him up (he slips up once in a while) and I specifically do it in the inning when our kids come up to bat. People have offered to pay me to video the whole game

This reminds me our Goodwill Series with National Team of Japan. Our American team was selected by pro scouts from our Area Code games. The Games were played in Cooperstown and filmed to 40 million people in Japan.

The father of our catcher was back of the fence home plate on Legends field. He was calling out the pitches to his son hitting. It was observed by the Japan Coaches. "I told the father to stop immediately or we will replace your son".  Then we escorted the father to the parking lot..

The son later had a "cup of coffee" with the Oakland A's.

Bob

Update...

First... Intech said...

I was (and still occasionally are) too hard on my sons, and frankly one of the first steps toward my "recovery" was finding this site several years before I had a kid old enough for most of these topics to be a concern. It provided me with some perspective I badly needed, and threads like this are a nice refresher. 

I didn't post this thread with a specific objective but, in hindsight, I think this is exactly what I would hope for - glad to see others have chosen to add related experiences to provide readers here who may benefit with some perspective and serve as "a nice refresher".

As to the dad in the OP... well, there was another game tonight.  It was senior night and I wanted to be there for the senior that is also a baseball player in our program.  My wife doesn't usually join me for these games since our kids are all long past HS now but she did for this one.  As we made our way up the bleachers, I let her lead and in a pretty crowded gym, guess who she unknowingly sat next to?  Yup, the dad in the OP.  I hinted to her that her attention may be diverted in that direction .  I told her to let me know when she figures out who's dad he is.  Well, he outdid himself.  It took about three minutes into the first quarter.  His son was involved in a typical loose ball scrum and a bit of two-way trash talking for the next several minutes of the game with one of the opposing players.  The dad actually started barking out instruction that he "fire it in his face" with an inbound pass and to "take it to him" several times there after.  He added "he's only talking 'cuz he can't play worth a crap".  

It's a miracle.  I am completely healed of my itch to try to help this guy.  Now, I can only feel bad for the kid, knowing the parental misguidance he is under.  

I don't believe for one second these parents don't love their children. They want their kids to succeed. They want their kids to be happy. They just get caught up in the madness. Yes many times these parents have never played. Many times they are wanting for their kids what they didn't experience. But there are times when these parents are people who have played and sometimes experienced a lot of success. Either way it is simply misguided, out of perspective, warped understanding, whatever you want to call it behavior.

Many times they get it eventually. The problem is many times its simply too late. Relationships have been destroyed, the opportunity is lost forever. You can't go back and go through these years with your kid. The kid can't go back to school and have a good HS athletic experience. The parent can't go back and enjoy it either.

Sports can either be a vehicle that builds a tremendous bond between Parents and child or it can be a wedge that destroys or damages this relationship. If one can understand that the relationship you have with your child will never be trumped by anything else maybe perspective can be found. Time. You have such a short time to build that foundation. Think about it,  you have their full attention for such a short time. Then one day they are grabbing the car keys and heading to somewhere. They are gradually moving away. You have less and less time. You have less and less influence. If that foundation is not built on solid ground in those years when you have it, well that foundation is set. It's either solid or its not.

You have to care more about the man you are raising and the relationship you are building than anything else. Would you rather have a HOF baseball player or a HOF Son. Of course both would be awesome. But no more awesome than a HOF Carpenter and a HOF Son. Absolutely not. The bottom line baseball is a vehicle that should be used to build a foundation used for life. It should be used as a tool to teach life lessons. It should be used to bring a bond that ties in with everything else.

So take your kid fishing and talk about fishing. Take your son hunting and talk about hunting. Take your son on a walk and talk about life. Get to know him as a person. What's his favorite color? What music does he like? Where would he like to go? What would he like to see? Make sure he knows you care more about the man he is than the player he can be. Use the game to teach him discipline, commitment, dedication, work ethic, team work, sacrifice, determination, perseverance, disappointment, how to grind, how to fail, how to overcome, how to fight, how to love, how to win. Maybe he will take those lessons and apply them to his life? And just maybe when the cleats are hung up you guys will have a bond that will last a lifetime.

Your son is not a baseball player. He is something much more important than that. He is your son. He just happens to play baseball. And hopefully very well. And if not so what? No one will care when he's a HOF Dad.

Coach_May posted:

I don't believe for one second these parents don't love their children. They want their kids to succeed. They want their kids to be happy. They just get caught up in the madness. Yes many times these parents have never played. Many times they are wanting for their kids what they didn't experience. But there are times when these parents are people who have played and sometimes experienced a lot of success. Either way it is simply misguided, out of perspective, warped understanding, whatever you want to call it behavior.

Many times they get it eventually. The problem is many times its simply too late. Relationships have been destroyed, the opportunity is lost forever. You can't go back and go through these years with your kid. The kid can't go back to school and have a good HS athletic experience. The parent can't go back and enjoy it either.

Sports can either be a vehicle that builds a tremendous bond between Parents and child or it can be a wedge that destroys or damages this relationship. If one can understand that the relationship you have with your child will never be trumped by anything else maybe perspective can be found. Time. You have such a short time to build that foundation. Think about it,  you have their full attention for such a short time. Then one day they are grabbing the car keys and heading to somewhere. They are gradually moving away. You have less and less time. You have less and less influence. If that foundation is not built on solid ground in those years when you have it, well that foundation is set. It's either solid or its not.

You have to care more about the man you are raising and the relationship you are building than anything else. Would you rather have a HOF baseball player or a HOF Son. Of course both would be awesome. But no more awesome than a HOF Carpenter and a HOF Son. Absolutely not. The bottom line baseball is a vehicle that should be used to build a foundation used for life. It should be used as a tool to teach life lessons. It should be used to bring a bond that ties in with everything else.

So take your kid fishing and talk about fishing. Take your son hunting and talk about hunting. Take your son on a walk and talk about life. Get to know him as a person. What's his favorite color? What music does he like? Where would he like to go? What would he like to see? Make sure he knows you care more about the man he is than the player he can be. Use the game to teach him discipline, commitment, dedication, work ethic, team work, sacrifice, determination, perseverance, disappointment, how to grind, how to fail, how to overcome, how to fight, how to love, how to win. Maybe he will take those lessons and apply them to his life? And just maybe when the cleats are hung up you guys will have a bond that will last a lifetime.

Your son is not a baseball player. He is something much more important than that. He is your son. He just happens to play baseball. And hopefully very well. And if not so what? No one will care when he's a HOF Dad.

^What he said! <Like button> <——press

Wow Coach May. So on point!

Coach May eloquently summed up this whole issue.  

With respect to the OP, it seems the real question here is : As a witness parent, do you try to insert yourself & step in and possibly help mend the "situation." We have all seen it to varying degrees & it is not pretty.

I think the answer is yes. What do you really have to lose other than spurring the wrath of an out of control parent? If this other parent were a true friend, then a conversation would clearly be in order & have likely already happened. 

I have stepped in and offered my "opinion" to such a parent on 3 separate occasions in the last 8 years with varying reactions & results. The conversations were never as bad as anticipated. In all 3 occasions, the wife (spouse of the yeller) actually came to me in tears thanking me for stepping in.

My approach was to first sympathize with the "offender." Things like, "if they would only just do what we tell them" "Man, it can be frustrating to watch, can't it." Break the ice then proceed to remind them that "don't forget, your kid is 2X the player you ever were." This is true in about 99% of these cases. Talk about how difficult the game really is. Then you can feel it out & just go with something along the lines of " you do realize that by continuing to verbally criticize him in public you are embarrassing him. You are going to succeed in driving him away from the game. Your kid starts to think: " Every time I play baseball, my Dad is upset & yells at me, therefore, if I eliminate baseball, Dad can no longer yell at me for failing. "This is clearly  NOT what you want. You have to stop if you want him to continue to play the game with any joy whatsoever." Then just shut up & listen & see where it goes.