D3 HA pitcher question

83-85 with command is fine for D3.

Sitting 83-85 will be fine for a D3s. But coaches want pitchers that get outs. College players at all college levels can hit velo (with exceptions of course). Being able to have a solid 2nd pitch he can throw for a strike and swing and miss is important. I know you say he has 4 pitches, but he probably doesn't have 4 quality pitches (you'd have interest already). Depending on his FB, probably best to develop another pitch that compliments it.

It depends on the school and how you define HA. Yes, there are a few guys on most D3 rosters throwing low to mid 80's. However, the kids those coaches are going to actively recruit for admissions are likely high 80's and even 90+ or have some funky specialty.

My son was the starting catcher on his HS team his freshman year. He could always pitch a little, but he was more valuable behind the plate. A freak injury his junior year led to him spending more time on the mound than catching and he soon became the go to guy. In the off-season he ditched hitting and catching to work on pitching. Velo didn't really go up much, but his command and stuff got much better. The reason I mention this, going from 79-85 is a big jump and I find it highly unlikely. I would want to know what his pitching workouts look like or what he sees mechanically to make him think he can achieve those results.

IMO, pitching is the way to go for recruiting as 50% of the slots go to pitchers and HA schools will likely only take 1 catcher each year. Is he getting attention now as a catcher? If not, making the switch can't hurt.

Trying to reply to several posts at once.

1. I'd agree... He has solid command with 2 pitches - 4S and Curve, both he can place and use to get swing and miss or intentional contact. 2S is good but underused and changeup is filthy when on and utter garbage when off (definitely something to work on).

2. Getting from 79 to 85 - coach says it's all in his lower body. He has all the strength down there but gets disconnected and doesn't use his legs enough to drive and that alone he said can get several mph just from some mechanical improvements.

3. Our definition of HA are schools where a 3.9+ unweighted, 4.9 weighted, 12 APs and 1450 SAT is considered "OK".

Is he determined to stay in the northeast? Those scores are good for most of HA’s around the country. Other than MIT, he should be good for the other HA’s in New England.

Is the coach charging for his instruction? That just seems like a big jump. Maybe @adbono can chime in with his thoughts.

What year is your son? Has he started the recruiting process? Most of the top HA coaches are all targeting the same kids first (power arms around 90 and will be an easy admissions decision). Then as those kids commit they start looking at the other kids on their radar, but this is usually September going into October.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Is he determined to stay in the northeast? Those scores are good for most of HA’s around the country. Other than MIT, he should be good for the other HA’s in New England.

Is the coach charging for his instruction? That just seems like a big jump. Maybe @adbono can chime in with his thoughts.

What year is your son? Has he started the recruiting process? Most of the top HA coaches are all targeting the same kids first (power arms around 90 and will be an easy admissions decision). Then as those kids commit they start looking at the other kids on their radar, but this is usually September going into October.

1. He's open to other locations and was at the WashU camp a few weeks ago.

2. The coach is a good friend and doesn't charge me for it. We just do favors to help each other out.

3. My son is a 2026. He's been to several camps (at Brown right now) and had some interest but mostly it's "we aren't ready for 2026...heres what we like, here's what you should work on"

WashU was one I was thinking of academically. The coach is one that typically looks for guys around 90 first and then others if he misses on some guys.   UChicago is a maybe. They usually try to get closer to 1500 but if he is a top recruit he’d probably get in. He’s also one who targets “power arms” first.

Next summer will be his big recruiting summer. He won’t get much interest now, but that should be expected. How well does your son hit? If he mashes I’d probably stay behind the plate. If he is known as more of a defensive guy I’d work more pitching into his plans.

My son loved coach Bloom at Washu - one of his favorites.

He does hit pretty well. Not the greatest power, but has around 90mph+ EV and bats around 0.350 against kids throwing low to mid 80s.

Agree with everything TerribleBP said.  My son (hs class of '19) sat 86, he could also hit, and he was highly recruited by D3s; some coaches saw him more as a pitcher, some as a hitter.  In college he ended up as a PO. More recent pitching recruits at his school are touching 90 or have funky deliveries.  There are pitchers on the team with lower velos too, I don't know what kind of admission support they got.  With HAs, that's the crucial thing.

There are super-selective schools that are also very good at baseball, and there are super-selective schools that are less good at baseball.  It's now outdated, but on this site a poster made a composite list of academic and baseball rankings:  https://community.hsbaseballwe...ball-college-ranking.  You could do the same with updated data, and see what the sweet spot is for your son.

Presumably a '26 will be recruited next summer, so in the HS season you will know what his velo is.  If it's decent, and if he's hitting for his HS team, no harm in doing both at showcases/camps and seeing which appeals to which coaches.  Just don't let the HS coach burn out his arm by doing both in the same day.

I have to think a 6’1” 200 kid not hitting 80 has mechanical issues that need fixing.

@RJM posted:

I have to think a 6’1” 200 kid not hitting 80 has mechanical issues that need fixing.

That's exactly his coach's point. He's been sitting at 78-79 for the last 18 months even though he's gained strength, increased his EV, his pull down speed, and other factors. He said 2 things, 1 improve form, and 2 getting more reps than once a month in games (because he is always asked to catch)

FWIW.  My son was the “pitching stats” guy this past season for his D3 team. He  collected the velo of every pitch thrown in over 40 games.  He said that a handful of teams had one starter that was throwing 90mph.  Most of the starters were sitting around 85.  The bullpen guys were low 80s.  Johns Hopkins was the exception, with most of their pitchers throwing close to or over 90.

Hopkins gets most of the HA guys they want. Same with MIT, WashU, UChicago, etc. They will all have a handful of guys around 90 and then some mid-80’s and possibly a specialist or 2 low 80’s. Even Caltech has a couple guys around 90 now.

I saw this today on Instagram, I thought it applied to this conversation.  Via @virtualdugout

touching the gun at 90 and sitting at 90 in game conditions are not the same. there are very few D3 pitchers who sit 90 in games.

@old_school posted:

touching the gun at 90 and sitting at 90 in game conditions are not the same. there are very few D3 pitchers who sit 90 in games.

I'm pretty sure it was the Max Velo, not sitting.

Here is truth for NE HA D3's.  If you are talking NESCAC, NEWMAC, type HA in New England.  All velo's I talk about refer to RHP, lefties are just another thing.

Your kids situation is exactly my son's who is now at a really good school (I'm pretty tough about what I call HA) D3 in New England as a pitcher.  He was a catcher but grew very tall and stayed very thin, and had a great slider so the HS coach told him he was a pitcher.  He sat 79 Junior year and 80-81 senior year touching 83.  Now sits 85 and touches 87+ in indoor bullpens, a bit better in games.  D3 coaches want strike throwers and will actually pitch guys upper 70's if they throw strikes.

Your son's one knock may be he already has size (205lbs) compared to kids throwing his velo, is there 5mph in his mechanics, maybe, probably if he throws like a catcher, but the upside just by getting bigger is harder to see for a coach if the kids already over 200lbs.  Unless that size is mush and not much muscle.  Ask the coach or other knowledgeable baseball guys what his arm speed looks like.  Unless he is severely under-throwing for his size because of mechanics, I'd be wary of gaining any more than 3-4mph in any year, too fast too soon is a recipe for injury.  Velocity gain is also not linear, you can't count on the same gains each year.

People really over state velocity at all levels.  Do you need to max 90 to get recruited at D1, yes, are the pitchers there all throwing that, no.   D3 even most HA D3 the cutoff is about 78mph safer is 80mph.

Most teams my son's team played threw guys anywhere from 78 to 88mph,  with an occasional 90mph arm but also the occasional 75mph arm, the majority sat 82-83.  (that being said MIT has a kid who threw 96 in hs (injured), but in the weekend series they threw two guys in lower to mid 80's against my son's team)

RARELY, ACROSS MOST HA D3 DO KIDS PUMP OVER 90MPH IN GAME CONSISTENTLY.  88 IS FAST.  DO THEY MAX  OVER THAT, SURE, BUT THEY DONT' SIT IT AND THROW STRIKES.  WHEN THEY DO AT D3, PEOPLE TAKE NOTICE AS ITS NOT AS COMMON AS MENTIONED.  83-85 throwing strikes gets you in the starting rotation and if you can either paint the outside corner or can spin the ball, you will have success.

People also like to talk about D3's as if only the top 25 ranked programs exist,  most HA D3 are not top 25 and thus can't recruit top 25 D3 talent.  Also most HA D3's are not MIT, Caltech or John Hopkins who can recruit world-wide based on the schools rep.  if you are looking at those schools then I would say 83 isn't going to get you recruited there as a PO.  As a multi-position player with the grades and potential to become a pitcher, maybe.

it's hard to get on the field as a catcher with 4 others on the team, but pitching is a commodity.  It is hard making it as a catcher unless you can really hit, and I mean really hit.  Being a multi-position guy is also key, IF YOU CAN HIT, the concept of the utility player for defense in D3 is non existent today.  If your bat can get you on the field but not in front of the starting catcher, that's why you need to be able to play another position.

If he can be recruited in your opinion as a catcher, stick with that, because if he has the arm he can transition later, but I'd certainly let any coach know he pitches also.

IF he's not a great hitter, focus on pitching.

Big difference between “can he play D3” and “can he get recruited to an elite HA D3”. With his academics he can target just below the top tier (JHU, MIT, Caltech). Every other HA D3 is in play. There are a lot of very bad teams in the northeast. There are bad teams coast to coast. Very few of those teams, if any, fall into that elite HA category.

D3 baseball in TX, and CA is loaded with pitchers around 90 and yes, some sitting low 90’s. Saw a kid this spring throwing 97 and ended up being drafted. Most of the good teams do have kids they will throw in the low 80’s during the regular season because they don’t have depth of higher velo guys. Once the playoffs start they are riding the higher velo guys.

Son's teammate at a NE D1 did his grad year at JHU (was the pitcher that got them into the championship a few years back, after throwing something like 150+ pitches). He was low 90's I believe.

Here’s a good post on weight/velo

https://x.com/armoryflorida/st...wartr9tQOP2NQmeMrm1g

90 plus in D3 is the exception, not the rule.  And most aren't recruited throwing that, they grow into it.

For recruits read @HSDad22 post as well as @Master P  posts. Pretty much all you need.

One caveat is that West Coast teams can add 2-4 MPH on the velo from HA New England teams.

I don't recall ever seeing any of them as as noted they are typically not top 25 teams. I saw D3 teams who would likely lose to top HS team, and top D3 teams who could compete in a single game with top 50 D1 teams. Now days the top 10 teams would likely smoke them. The best D3 team I saw had 6 pitchers in the 90's, with only two of them "sitting" above 90 for a full game, and one for 2 innings (two were drafted), however that was likely a centaury team. 

What does he like to do?  Could he give up hitting and be a PO?  Would it bother him if he never hit again?

He’s targeting specific schools that are recruiting the top HA kids, not the average D3 kids. For RHP’s, those schools are targeting and usually get kids that will hit 89-90+ at a showcase. Do they have kids that don’t hit those numbers, yes. Are they using their ED slots for them, no. WashU is recruiting different kids than Amherst and Williams. Same goes for JHU and the other top HA schools.

Not sure why I or others haven’t mentioned this yet, but your son can talk with the coaches of the schools he’s looking at and they are usually very honest on what they are looking for at a specific position, like velo for an RHP. If he asks, they will also usually tell him whether they can see him being a baseball fit for their program. For example, a lot of schools in the northeast love 2-way players. Especially kids that can catch.

Very similar to my son who is currently going through process.  He is a 2025 RHP who tops out at 82 but usually 78-80.  Good changeup.  My son is 6-2 and 180 and has 6-4 wingspan, ie he's got good upside velocity-wise. 

We have, so far this summer, been told by Ivys that he doesn't throw hard enough.  NESCAC schools are a possibility, but they want him to throw a bit harder by the end of September or it's not likely. 

He has strong interest at two D3 schools that are in the midwest and are strong academic schools. 

My son is also a good but not great fielder/hitter.  Everyone is slotting him as a pitcher. 

Hope that helps.