How short is too short?

Baseball doesn't have a height requirement. Baseball has a HEART requirement!!

 

 

The All American SHORTstop ...

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OAvTKUDzE6c

Tell the kid that he should get on this website himself.  It's nice of you to post on his behalf, but he will need to help himself eventually and there is a lot of good advice here.  Good luck to him.

Ro Coleman of Vandy is listed at 5'5" and looks shorter than that. 

http://www.vucommodores.com/sp..._coleman_864339.html

 

Thanks all for the replies and examples!  I told him about a pitcher for Arizona or Arizona State (I couldn't remember) that I saw on TV this spring that I thought was 5'5" or 5'6".  I'm going to pass all this on and tell him AGAIN that he needs to get his own login.

He has a shot.   Leverage their skills and stature to their advantage would be my advice.  My oldest son played with two position players who were about 5'5", quick hands and quick feet.  They were a nightmare to pitch to because if you grooved one they could hit it over the fence. 

My son played in the valley league with jose Carrera. He plays at Manhattan College. Roster says he is 5' 6". In reality he is 5' 2".

 

http://gojaspers.com/mobile/Vi...DB_OEM_ID=12500&

 

http://www.valleyleaguebasebal...news-652/news_155534

 

Size helps. Talent is better. I'd sign a kid who's 4 feet tall if he had the tools to compete.

Does it seem like the guys under 6ft are the grinders of the team?

my son's team has two kids about 5'8" / 5'6" MIF / Out field, both give the team 125% every game and Hit the ball very well..

And another thing....

 

My kid plays with an incredible 5' 6" player, a HS senior who I believe is the best athlete at the school and would be a no-doubt D1 player but for the fact his grades are mediocre at best.  I'm pretty sure he'll have to go JUCO for that reason.  Tell the kid to keep his grades up.

I didn't know what to expect when I opened this thread. Just sayin'.

Baseball doesn't have a height requirement. Baseball has a HEART requirement!!

 

Baseball lovers are suckers for the so called scrappers.  Guys like Pedrioa get an enormous amount of love from a wide fan base because he made it with his heart.  I think people like to think anyone can do it so there is some kind of hope.  Nope....like JH says...he made it because he has talent and works hard at it.   But talent has to come first, making the most of it is the heart part.

 

Derek Jeter by comparison seems have a brainy, slick, smooth reputation but always has his talent acknowledged almost immediately.  While he may have more than most anyone that ever lived, do not doubt for a moment that 3,600 base hits etc. happened without a boatload of effort and dedication behind it.

   

5'6"

 

http://www.milb.com/player/ind...r/R/hitting/2014/ALL

Funny, a 5'6" guy is "blocked" from MLB by 5'5" Jose Altuve.

 

Do you think they hit the ball very well because they put in effort? Or do you think they hit the ball well because they have talent?

 

I've seen thousands of players have a lot of passion and put a lot of effort into the game. Only a small handful reach the highest level. Talent comes first, always. Once a player has talent, work ethic can help to separate him from some of his peers. But that really doesn't have much to do with size.

 

 

And Mookie Betts (5' 9") is behind the poster boy for short, successful second basemen. 

Mookie is from here and was drafted out of high school - both Tony Kemp (also local boy) and Ro Coleman are Vandy boys. 

It wasn't that long ago a 5' 9" middle infielder wouldn't have even gotten the handle "short." That would have been quite normal. Then came Cal.

There was a day when a 5'9" shortstop with decent hands, could hit .260 and steal 20 bases was the norm, Here's the best example ... http://www.baseball-reference....parilu01.shtml?redir

Or when a .220 hitter who never hit more than 50 rbi in a season with good hands/range could play for 18 years / 2,000 games and be a part of a world champion team multiple times.

http://www.baseball-reference....rs/b/belanma01.shtml

Belanger was 6'1".

Son's college team had a "5'8" and under" club last year - five members.  They all contributed to a winning team. 

 

Will it limit the number of schools that will look at him?  Probably, but it depends on how much talent he has.  If he is looking to be a pitcher, he should be focused on improving the 80-82 and not worried about what he can't control.  If he wants to be a position player, focus on being the best hitter and fielder he can be...

 

Also, the good GPA will earn him more opportunities.  There is far more academic $ available than athletic.  Many of the better academic colleges are D3's and NAIA's that are sometimes a bit more likely to have smaller players on their rosters.  But the talent still needs to be there.

 

The key, as is always the case, is to find a coach who doesn't care how big he is, but how he performs.  Some coaches want the taller kids, and probably won't give this young man a second thought.  Other coaches will love his effort and determination and won't give a hoot how tall he is.  This young man should start looking at college rosters and looking at the size of the players at various schools for a possible clue.

 

Here's an example about the attitude of a football coach about size.  Heard last night about a Div. I football coach who told all his wide receivers that they needed to weigh at least 195 by Fall camp.  If they weren't 195, they were cut.  Today there is an NAIA coach who is thrilled to have a former Div. I receiver on his team. 

Originally Posted by Rick at Informed Athlete:

The key, as is always the case, is to find a coach who doesn't care how big he is, but how he performs.  Some coaches want the taller kids, and probably won't give this young man a second thought.  Other coaches will love his effort and determination and won't give a hoot how tall he is.  This young man should start looking at college rosters and looking at the size of the players at various schools for a possible clue.

 

Here's an example about the attitude of a football coach about size.  Heard last night about a Div. I football coach who told all his wide receivers that they needed to weigh at least 195 by Fall camp.  If they weren't 195, they were cut.  Today there is an NAIA coach who is thrilled to have a former Div. I receiver on his team. 

 

Spot on Rick! I know a lot of folks still believe “It’s the size of the heart, not the size of the body”, “The cream rises to the top”, or any of many other clichés that seem to say nothing matters but talent and effort. It’s not that I think those things have no merit at all, but rather that I don’t think they’re generally as true as some would have us believe.

 

What you’ve said about the coach, or more precisely the program, makes all the difference in the world. The reason I say the program, is because it’s possible to have a broad minded HC, but if the assistants aren’t equally as broad minded, it’s still gonna be very difficult for the player who doesn’t fit the template.

 

It’s always about opportunity. The super stud who never gets to play for some reason isn’t in any better position than the player who doesn’t fit the profile but has 5 tremendous tools playing for some donkey who won’t give him a fair opportunity because of it.

Not sure how this message is supposed to be helpful or encouraging to the young man the OP is posting for.  Talent and effort are huge pieces of the equation.  MANY short players make it and it is because they have talent and effort and are willing to overcome any obstacles they face, just as other successful players do.  To suggest otherwise to this young man is just wrong.

I've seen college players at 5'4.

I suspect many players give their height with cleats and standing on their toes.

 

My son was coached by a former MLB player. One day we found his rookie card, and it had him listed a good 3 inches taller than his real height. Everyone on the team got a big kick out of that card. The former player laughed and signed it for my son.

 

You can look at college rosters if you want, but that doesn't necessarily tell the story.  My son is 5'9", maybe 5'10" as a stretch.  He's listed on his college roster as 6'.  I have no idea why and neither does he!!  He was surprised his freshman year when the roster got posted and I texted him to ask how it felt to be 6'.  So, I have a feeling a lot of shorter guys get the stretch on the listed roster.

 

That being said, I agree with what others here have said, if the talent is there, there will be a place for the shorter player to play.  Will there be some coaches who discount the player because of his size?  Yes, there will be.  Will there be other coaches who don't care?  Yes, there will be.  Find the coach who doesn't care about the size and who only cares about the talent and you will be fine.  Control what you can, which is the tools you have available.  The rest is not worth worrying about because you can't change it anyway.

Steven Patrick Garvey 

Positions: First Baseman and Third Baseman 
Bats: Right, Throws: Right 
Height: 5' 10", Weight: 192 lb.

 

My wife and I met this person at a summer party. My wife was wearing sandals. She's 5'8". She was taller.

Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

Not sure how this message is supposed to be helpful or encouraging to the young man the OP is posting for.  Talent and effort are huge pieces of the equation.  MANY short players make it and it is because they have talent and effort and are willing to overcome any obstacles they face, just as other successful players do.  To suggest otherwise to this young man is just wrong.

 

Well, hopefully that young man won’t do what you did and stop without reading the whole thing. My whole point was that clichés are crapola, and what Rick said was spot on, and even bballman agrees with that!

 

I said nothing negative, but hopefully pointed out to him a “proactive” plan than just counting on the talent to rise to the top.

I've seen a few good position players at the D1 level at 5-6 or so. They all did at least one thing really well that made it possible. Many of them had very good speed and/or range.

 

Tim Collins with the Royals/Omaha is listed at 5-7.I stood next to him in a high A bullpen one night. I think he is shorter than that.

 

Brett Butler is a short man and there are many other examples, as others have illustrated....Kirby Puckett, etc.

 

College coaches are more results-now oriented than pro ball. College coaches really don't care what you look like if you can help them win games.

 

 

http://www.goducks.com/ViewArt...60&Q_SEASON=2013

 

CCL Allstar Game MVP, now playing for Oregon....

 

Played with my son in the CCL and was, by far, the best position player on the team. Played SS.  Listed as 5'6" and is that maybe with lifted cleats. 

 

My son also played with a kid on his travel team, again most talented player on the team and he is/was at U of Indiana and a starter as a freshmen.  He was maybe 5'6" they list him as 5'10".....  Big 10 freshmen of the year, etc etc.

 

http://www.iuhoosiers.com/spor...ad_clark_779960.html

 

Both had one thing in common....talent. 

 

 

Stats, of course I read the whole thing.  No where do you point out a proactive plan. 

 

I too agree with Rick and bballman.  Their messages come off as positive encouragement.  i.e. - "today there is a coach who is thrilled to have..", "if the talent is there, there will be a place...", "find the coach..", "control what you can..".  I also agree with the others here who have pointed out some of the many short players who did have the talent and heart, didn't settle on excuses and were successful.

 

Your post comes off as negative with the implied message that talent and heart will not be enough, that "donkey" coaches will only look for those who fit the mold.  While, in some instances, there may be a degree of truth to that, I don't think that is the message that puts this young man in the best position to strive for success.  That's just me.

cabbagedad,

 

Did you even consider that you read into what I posted, exactly what you wanted to read? Your predisposition to think about anything I post in a negative way, shines like the sun. Personally, I give people credit for being smart enough to grasp what they’re being told. I.e., the coach makes all the difference. Nothing more, nothing less.

The advice about doing homework is spot on (starting by coming here himself).

I would definitely have someone evaluate the players skills,  but someone other than friends and family. I dont doubt what you are saying but we are not scouts.

 

This will give him an idea of where to begin.

Height has nothing to do with being a grinder or giving it 125%  every time out.

 

Not to be negative, but as root has pointed out,  being under 6ft used to be the norm. So this leads to Stats point, you have to be able to find a coach who is able to look past the height factor.

 

RJM you mention Garvey.I wonder with the game the way it is now would he make it at first base?

 

I've met him as well. He isn't first base size,or really third. Curious where his bat would play in todays game? I know he could hit.

 

My 6'5" LHP would gladly trade 10 inches of height to add 10 mph to his fastball.

 

Seriously, as other have stated, height is nice to have, but does not compensate for a lack of tool(s).

It's a beauty contest. It starts with what can be seen. And is decided by what can not be seen.

Short players can be positional players.  Generating bat speed is more about strength and less about height.  Also the stronger a batter the longer bat they can swing.  With every extra inch of bat the 'sweet spot' increases in speed by about 3%.  However if you read the bios of division 1 positional players they pretty much all hit .400 and above in high school.  About .450 would be a good goal.  But some of that is dependent on competition played so a more nuetral measure may be exit velocity.  Goal should be 90mph.  I am more honest than most so I will tell you there is almost zero chance of your son pitching division 1.  Height means an awful lot to pitching velocity.  Remember any kid who has a little talent and a strong desire to play can find a spot on some d3 or juco team.