How to adjust??

Adjustment is the ability to swing without the hands (on a straight fast ball), so the hands are free to adjust for off speed pitches.

quote:

Originally posted by LAball:
Adjustment is the ability to swing without the hands (on a straight fast ball), so the hands are free to adjust for off speed pitches.

You aren't going to see too many "straight" fast balls in the higher levels of the game. To Jimmy's question, the way to adjust is by having mechanics that allow you to WAIT LONGER so you can SEE THE BALL LONGER. Top Pitchers have the ability to make every pitch look the same coming out of their hand and to make the ball move LATE. If you develop the right mechanics you have the ability to, as Larry Walker once said, "I don't know what I do, I just see it and hit it".

quote:

To Jimmy's question, the way to adjust is by having mechanics that allow you to WAIT LONGER so you can SEE THE BALL LONGER.

Power ... Well stated in IMHO. How one defines "adjustment", as it applies to hitting, will affect the answer. In my definition, adjustments are mental not physical. Those mental changes (what am I looking for in this situation, how did he pitch me last time, how did I react last time, etc.) are made between swings or AB's. Physical adjustments during the swing are not desireous and should be avoided except to "spoil" a pitchers pitch or a pitch you were fooled by. By "having mechancis that allow you to wait longer so you can see the ball longer" (Power's quote)before starting and then Powerfully exploding to the spot your minds-eye says the ball will be at, ... will produce more powerful results.

I agree. What some folks call what you're describing is, mental "approach". When you have the right mechanics and the right mental approach, you can be a very successful hitter in the MLB. You can have one or the other and be a terrific athlete and survive and even thrive up to that level, some even for their rookie season, but the MLB Pitchers will find your holes if you don't have the right mechanics no matter what your mental approach. How do you get the right mental approach? Pay attention the entire game, watch the Pitchers and hitters (on both teams), watch as many games as possible when you aren't playing, ask questions of your Coach (most have been there and know what's up), and lastly, get in the batter's box as many times as possible, see as many pitches as possible.

Two great posts right there.

IMO, There are many adjustments involved in a hitter making adjustments. For the sake of argument one of the most important is the adjustment a hitter has to make to off speed pitches.

Again IMO, this is done primarily with the legs. Meaning the ability to sit on a pitch! There was a debate about the belt buckle in an earlier thread. It revolved around the belt buckle raising to swing the bat. I might have misunderstood and mentioned this as a no-no. I wasn’t talking about contact or after contact, I was referring to the beginning of the swing. The ability to keep the belt buckle level to the ground is extremely important when waiting for off speed. Most great hitters will even lower the belt buckle as they recognize and wait for off speed. Once the belt buckle raises, a hitter is doomed on off speed pitches and coverage.

I learned this little detail talking to Don Slaught. After watching it happen in slow motion it became very obvious. The ability to stay down, starting with the legs is vital for being able to hit good off speed.

I agree that many adjustments are mental, but this one is very physical!

quote:

I agree that many adjustments are mental, but this one is very physical!

I understand the point you make PG. I would expect that if you examine video, as Slaught says, that you could see the legs/belt buckle/head dip, if the hitter thought fastball, started the "Launch" and then realized off-speed. In fact, I don't know how, from that position, you could or would move up?

I would also summize that a hitter that is more of a "hands to the ball" guy would have to make more late "physical" adjustments, than one that lets the ball travel deep and times/commits with the hips and the hands follow with (greater bat speed, he can wait longer).

Agree with that. Now you have to trust that bat speed and have the discipline to allow the ball to travel deep. To me that is one of the most critical components. Having great batspeed can be as much as a detriment as it can be an advantage if not properly used.

Keep your rear elbow tucked.

If fastball, go as normal.

If offspeed, release elbow to Power V.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
IMO, There are many adjustments involved in a hitter making adjustments. For the sake of argument one of the most important is the adjustment a hitter has to make to off speed pitches.

Again IMO, this is done primarily with the legs. Meaning the ability to sit on a pitch! There was a debate about the belt buckle in an earlier thread. It revolved around the belt buckle raising to swing the bat. I might have misunderstood and mentioned this as a no-no. I wasn’t talking about contact or after contact, I was referring to the beginning of the swing. The ability to keep the belt buckle level to the ground is extremely important when waiting for off speed. Most great hitters will even lower the belt buckle as they recognize and wait for off speed. Once the belt buckle raises, a hitter is doomed on off speed pitches and coverage.

I learned this little detail talking to Don Slaught. After watching it happen in slow motion it became very obvious. The ability to stay down, starting with the legs is vital for being able to hit good off speed.

I agree that many adjustments are mental, but this one is very physical!

Yes, Sir! I agree 100%! What you are talking about is keeping the rear hip and leg loaded until "go". The weight has to stay over the rear leg and the hip and leg have to stay loaded, sitting is the only way to do it once you've put your body in motion.

One of the very best high school hitters entering this years draft raises his belt buckle early in his swing. This tells us he will need to correct that in the future. His natural hitting ability along with his strength and the bat speed he creates is amazing, but he can not and will not be able to handle off speed until he fixes the problem. We believe he will get it fixed giving him the ability to make the adjustment to off speed in the future.

PG,

You may want to have his Coach make sure he knows how to load and hold his rear hip. I can help explain it if he needs help.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
IMO, There are many adjustments involved in a hitter making adjustments. For the sake of argument one of the most important is the adjustment a hitter has to make to off speed pitches.

Again IMO, this is done primarily with the legs. Meaning the ability to sit on a pitch! There was a debate about the belt buckle in an earlier thread. It revolved around the belt buckle raising to swing the bat. I might have misunderstood and mentioned this as a no-no. I wasn’t talking about contact or after contact, I was referring to the beginning of the swing. The ability to keep the belt buckle level to the ground is extremely important when waiting for off speed. Most great hitters will even lower the belt buckle as they recognize and wait for off speed. Once the belt buckle raises, a hitter is doomed on off speed pitches and coverage.

I learned this little detail talking to Don Slaught. After watching it happen in slow motion it became very obvious. The ability to stay down, starting with the legs is vital for being able to hit good off speed.

I agree that many adjustments are mental, but this one is very physical!

PG,
Great post and great explanation.
Our son is using the Slaught video with his college players. I showed him the thread on the belt buckle and he knew right away what was being discussed.
He showed me video of many hitters and slow motioned the belt buckle to contact.
He then showed me the belt buckle up idea.
Confirmed everything you posted then and now. He had no trouble understanding your prior views and fully agreed you had it right.

Power to all fields,
I would like to hear you explain this, it sounds interesting.

In regards to adjustment I think there are some great ideas both physical and mental. When I talk mental I talk about "charts". We keep extensive charts on the pitcher's we see and we post them for our players. I was told long ago, can't guarantee it but it always to me has seemed true, that if you can isolate counts in which a pitcher throws a certain pitch 80% of the time or more you can sit for that pitch in that count. Physically I would follow advice from PG, I heard Slaught and Jeff Pentland discuss the same adjustment.

A lot of great posts. In my opinion, this is a HUGE topic.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Again IMO, this is done primarily with the legs. Meaning the ability to sit on a pitch!

PG, could you explain WHAT is primarily done with the legs on off-speed pitches? I'm guessing it was meant as a general statement, but there are a lot of potential details with this. Are we talking lower half (including the hips), staying soft/quiet with the load, not letting the hips slide to the point of getting "disconnected," maintaining rhythm, all of the above and more?


In the Northeast (and I'd imagine in all cold-weather climates), one of the most difficult aspects to instruct is timing. I DO NOT think this is because a lack of games being played. Among many other factors, there is not enough quality BP on a field and not enough instruction that promotes good timing (and rhythm). It is so easy for players to get in the cage and hit line drives to the pull side and be happy - even if they are getting around the ball. The vast majority of new high school players that I work with (who have spent thousands on AAU programs) don't know what "let the ball get deep" means and can't tell me if they get through or around a ball.



Back to the the original topic - 95 and straight can be fun. 89 with run/sink is not fun. A slider that looks like 89 with run/sink out of the hand and finishes just off the corner (with an umpire who will give the call) is scary. Have you ever faced a pitch only to look back at the catcher to wonder what happened? I still have this lefty curveball in my head from the NECBL all-star game after my sophomore year in college. Kid was 6'6", 91-92 with good, late run, I thought it was a fastball away (off the plate) out of the hand and it almost hit my back foot (I'm a righty)... Shook up my world of how much I thought a ball could move. (This was him: http://www.thebaseballcube.com...M/Ryan-Mullins.shtml)

The higher you go, the fewer pitches you will get to drive the ball per at bat and you need to be able to hit mistakes. Adjusting starts with pitch recognition - if you can't see it you can't hit it. If you are able to recognize the pitch, your body needs to be in a position to drive the ball. You need to maintain control your body and the head of the bat. (Keeping your hands back doesn't do you much good if the barrel is dropping.) Some players will recognize away and then slow the bat head down or use their hands to change the bat angle and lay it off to the opposite field. This is adjusting, but certainly not ideal with less than 2 strikes.

One last thing - I hate when I hear coaches say to hit off-speed pitches the other way. This is the "band-aid" fix to the problem of letting the ball travel/get deep. If a hanging curve is sitting on the inner third, the player still has to let the ball travel to be able to pull the ball and not hook it foul. But the ball certainly shouldn't be pushed the other way. Yes, the issue is timing but it must be combined with pitch recognition.

Bobby,

Can you tell us what your basic mechanical instruction includes? What kind of arm and hand action do you teach? Do you teach or believe in separation? Does the front leg, back leg, or both legs drive the swing? Do you teach hip load? If so, how do you teach it?

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
Bobby,

Can you tell us what your basic mechanical instruction includes? What kind of arm and hand action do you teach? Do you teach or believe in separation? Does the front leg, back leg, or both legs drive the swing? Do you teach hip load? If so, how do you teach it?

My approach to instruction is to work with players to understand WHY a specific mechanic or approach will help or hurt them (not just tell how). And I use video to communicate with my players so we have common language.



(I'm going to keep things pretty general in my response. Each of your questions should probably have their own thread - if they don't already).

Basic mechanics - be an athlete, get your foot down on time, stay inside the ball, no squishing the bug, maintain balance throughout the swing...

Arm/Hand Action - establish rhythm but stay soft, control the barrel with your hands (not your arms), the back elbow dropping/slotting can't cause the barrel to drop when initiating the swing, stay inside the ball

Separation - I think the word "separation" can be confusing to players and if the player is controlling their hips with a controlled stride (and not getting too far over their back side), this usually takes care of itself. Get the front foot down on time. I like using the word "graceful" to describe how the stride should land. To avoid becoming a robot, rhythm needs to be involved here.

Front/Back/Both Legs Driving the Swing - not sure what you mean by "drive the swing." When I study video, I see the back foot, knee, and hip driving when the hands are attacking forward, and all of this links up with the front heel dropping.

Hip load - Again, not 100% sure what you mean. Do you mean the front hip turning in like Bryce Harper or BJ Upton does? I discuss the importance of not opening up too early with the front hip, especially if I have them on video doing this. What Upton and Harper do can generate tons of power, but it can also lead to inconsistency because timing has to be so precise.

If you are landing with the weight on the front/inside part of that front foot, you hips should be loaded and under control.


In summary, my goal with my instruction is to promote good rhythm and timing from a strong/athletic hitting position that allows the player to see and drive the ball consistently.

Thanks! Just wanted to see where you were coming from, now I know.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
Thanks! Just wanted to see where you were coming from, now I know.

Where are you coming from on the above topics?

Also, any definitions for "drive the swing" and "hip drive" so we are on the same page?

quote:

My approach to instruction is to work with players to understand WHY

Bobby ... Sooooo important IMO. Can't find much there that I don't agree with. Good luck in the "New Year." I admire the Coaches and Teachers that do what they do for our players because they love the sport and teaching (making a living from it isn't a bad thing either..).

I say that because I loved teaching my son and to some extent his teammates (but I didn't have them long enough to make real inroads) but really never had much desire to coach others.. Probably because I'd rather watch my boy compete!!

quote:

Hip load - Again, not 100% sure what you mean. Do you mean the front hip turning in like Bryce Harper or BJ Upton does? I discuss the importance of not opening up too early with the front hip, especially if I have them on video doing this. What Upton and Harper do can generate tons of power, but it can also lead to inconsistency because timing has to be so precise.

Mr. Tewks, I see all great hitters opening the front hip early on...In fact, the front hip begins to open during the stride and the bat loading process.....I see this as needing to happen....

The back hip is the hip which loads.....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Mr. Tewks, I see all great hitters opening the front hip early on...In fact, the front hip begins to open during the stride and the bat loading process.....

The back hip is the hip which loads.....

Hi BlueDog,
We are seeing different things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECGOSDTTwhE

What do you consider to be "early on" when you say all great hitters open their front hip early on?

quote:

Mr. Tewks, I see all great hitters opening the front hip early on...In fact, the front hip begins to open during the stride

BlueDog: I can't understand how that could be correct, at least in my belief system? I can still learn, thus am interested in your viewpoint/explanation. Certainly believe the back hip loads.

Nice analysis! Technology is great!

Tewks,

Give up baseball...Go be a computer technician.


Seriously, Great job. I have no clue how to do any of that. Nice job explaining your point and stride/hips.

My dad and brother are the computer geniuses of the family...

I use iShowU HD to do screen recording (http://store.shinywhitebox.com/ishowuhd/main.html ) and I use a Mac. There is a lot of software you can pick find for a PC that does the same.

If you right click on BlueDog's GIF images, you should get an option to "Save file as" and you can go through the files frame-by-frame. It might help if you can control how fast your click through the frames. (You might need to get a GIF viewer as well, which can be found for free with a simple google search.)

I have always taught stayed closed until the front foot lands. If you open up early before you get the front foot down you can not adjust. And you find yourself pulling off of balls you should hammer. Nice job Bobby. Excellent video analysis imo.

In my view, load is everything that is stretching backwards to compress into the forward swing.

I know that the 'Kinetic Chain' folks consider the front foot landing to be the front hip load because the stop causes forward momentum and speed in the swing. Some call this 'whip'. In my view, this type of swing takes longer to execute.(Strong Front Side)

My thinking is that the back side is unloading in the swing. The front hip and shoulder should move to the ball location while all of the stretch is being used to propel the swing down into the zone. Hip turn adds more speed. Notice the hips and shoulders in the Babe's swing.

I think 'front hip load' is a misnomer.

Mr. Tewks, IMO, you are misjudging when the front foot is down.....When the back elbow moves is not the determinating factor.....The bat is turning in-between the hands when the back elbow is going down....The bat is not moving forward....

The back hip thrust at "go" is forcing the front foot down...

quote:

The back hip thrust at "go" is forcing the front foot down...

BlueDog,

Wouldn't you say that Bonds and Berkman have much different swing mechanics?

Bonds does appear to "stay closed" longer and the front hip does not turn until the front foot plants.

In your Berkman clip, this is what one would call "flying open". He's doing exactly as you say. Rotating his hips before plant.

I don't see Bonds and Ruth doing the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Mr. Tewks, IMO, you are misjudging when the front foot is down.....

Come on BlueDog. Does anybody else agree that I am misjudging when the front foot hits the ground. The clips are 30 fps, but I feel confident that high speed video would only further support what I've stated about the front foot being down.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
(1) When the back elbow moves is not the determinating factor.....The bat is turning in-between the hands when the back elbow is going down....(2) The bat is not moving forward....

(3) The back hip thrust at "go" is forcing the front foot down...

1. The back elbow moving isn't the determinig factor for WHAT? Please don't be cryptic and end sentences with "..." because I think this is a huge part of advanced hitting. But I also think you are picking clips that overexagerate your claims - like Berkman hitting from his power side in a homerun derby. In game situations, starting your hands before the front foot is down (as Berkman is doing) can cause tons trouble with off-speed pitching. (I don't think Berkman was worried about off-speed pitches in this clip.)

Just for fun, here's Berkman in the HR Derby at Yankee Stadium hitting from the left side. Maybe you'll disagree again, but what I see is very different from his right handed swing. If you want, I'll send you a link so you can download the video and make a GIF out of this clip.

Berkman Lefty HR Derby swing at 300 fps:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ab...#p/a/u/1/O4H-3I22iMs

For his career, Berkman is a .310 hitter against right-handed pitching with a 1.024 OPS. Against left-handed pitching he's .266 and .792. (I know, I know, he gets more opportunities from the left side. But his swing is much better too.)

2. I'm not saying the bat is coming forward. I am saying that the hips are closed when the front foot is down. My explanation to powertoallfields in a previous post about hands/arm action was:

quote:

Originally posted by BobbyTewks:
"Arm/Hand Action - establish rhythm but stay soft, control the barrel with your hands (not your arms), the back elbow dropping/slotting can't cause the barrel to drop when initiating the swing, stay inside the ball"

The Pujols clip is a perfect example (from a game too!) of the back elbow dropping without the change in bat angle. You frequently use the phrase "all great hitters" when speaking of your absolutes. How much the elbow slots is a product of where the elbow starts. Pujols is great and starts his elbow pretty high. Justin Morneau is pretty good too (great when healthy?), and he starts his elbow much lower than Pujols. Here's a HR Derby clip at 300 fps:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ab...#p/a/u/0/JBAnu1GCwEc

This is one of the biggest issues I see with high school swings. When the back elbow dropping causes the barrel to drop, the swing gets "loopy" and long. Problems linked to this issue include (but are certainly not limited to) staying "connected", swing direction/path, matching the plane of the pitch, staying inside the ball, timing. For adjusting to pitches, this is all extremely detrimental.

3. Their is certainly a relationship between the back hip "thrust" and the front heel moving down. What I consistently see is that the front heal moving down is also linked up with the back knee and hip driving and with a start of the swing with the hands/back elbow. (Again, elbow height has a lot to do with what is moving to start the swing.) As proven by your Berkman clip, the front foot does not need to be down for this process to start - but would usually cause a lot of trouble if you aren't getting a fastball middle-in.


And just for fun, Josh Hamilton at 600 fps from the HR Derby as well. (Yeah, I know. He's got a little "flying open" going on too. What a show!)
http://www.youtube.com/user/ab...#p/a/u/1/nw4cy58WZns

I don't want to sound like a "groupie,", but in all things Hitting, "I'm drinking the TEWKS Kool-Aid!"

It must be hard to compose definitive answers to cryptic statements?

Mr. Tewks, you simply cannot pick and choose clips of MLB hitters and make excuses for some of them.....

Using video is not foolproof to begin with....I've said for a long time that it's not hard to find clips to show pretty much anything you want 'em to show.....The two main reasons this is true is because number one, things look differently from different angles and number two, you can't see alot of the muscle movement under the uniforms.........The muscles move first, then the uniform moves.....

However, when the front foot lands at a 45 degree angle, you can believe the front hip is opening during the stride....

Great hitters need the front hip opened early to provide separation between the upper and lower body....This gives the hands something to stay loaded against...It's called stretch....

It's the same "stretch" that pitchers need and use...

quote:

This is one of the biggest issues I see with high school swings. When the back elbow dropping causes the barrel to drop, the swing gets "loopy" and long. Problems linked to this issue include (but are certainly not limited to) staying "connected", swing direction/path, matching the plane of the pitch, staying inside the ball, timing. For adjusting to pitches, this is all extremely detrimental.

Mr. Tewks, the reason the back elbow drops and the swing looks long and loopy is twofold.....They never get the back hip loaded and they don't create the stretch needed to keep the hands loaded against the front hip opening....

They lose what you call "connection" and I call whip.....

Not trying to prove you wrong....Just stating my view, that's all....

Bluedog,

Glad you are just "Not trying to prove you wrong" and "just stating my view" with Bobby Tewks because you certainly ain't proving the man wrong so far.

By the way, you do understand that the hip joint is essentially a ball and socket arrangement. Allows independent movement of attached parts, right? Add that to the equation about the front hip itself opening up early and see what you get. Are you seeing the hip/pelvis itself open or the rotation of the femur/thigh within a socket in the great MLB hitters you speak of in all their swings? Do you think they do this every swing or differing situations? Any difference in this when facing same side or opposite side pitchers? Do you see any difference in the early hip opening of no-stride hitters versus hitters that use a stride? How does a toe tap play into this? Lastly, how does the early hip opening aid a hitter in making adjustments better than not having your hips open early? Whole lot of variables to deal with.

Just trying to help you clarify your ideas.

quote:

In game situations, starting your hands before the front foot is down (as Berkman is doing) can cause tons trouble with off-speed pitching.

Mr. Tewks, I like having this discussion with you, but, I don't think I can continue it with the two individuals interferring....

You refer to hitters "starting your hands" and I will say that all MLB hitters start their hands before the front foot is down.....They turn the bat in-between their hands and is what I call floating the bat....The hands are not moving forward....They are turning the forearms while recognizing the pitch....The hands begin moving toward the pitcher at "go" which is swing decision time and the thrust from the back hip forces the front foot to the ground....

Ummm...1 on 1 conversations have their place. They are called PMs.

These boards are for OPEN discussion.

A few things I have learned:

1)There are a FEW people on here who think they KNOW it all. Who want to tell how their dog is bigger than the other guy's. There are so many people on here with so many different opinions, who are all so called experts, it just shows the beauty of the sport in my opinion. Nobody knows the exact way to do anything.


2)Baseball is the main sport in which you can LEARN something every day. If you think about it the WORST coaches/instructors/teachers/experts are those guys who think they already know it all. They are stuck on their own "knowledge" that they have came up with and will not listen to anyone else. For this reason, they will never be the kind of coach/instructor/teacher they could be.

3)Finally, Baseball is 80% mental. Yet, that board has 1/20 the traffic that this board has. Doesn't add up, does it?

I fail to see the meaning of your post?