How to Save $$$ in 14U-17U Baseball Development???

My son is a pitcher at a D1....he started travel ball when he was 9.  From 10U thru 12U we had winter practice once a week.....3 jerseys, 2 pants, 2 hats....60 games over 10-12 weeks.  Paid $450 plus sold tickets to a fundraiser.....easy sell, it was a casino night....actually had to get extra tickets all 3 years.  His 10U-12U teams carried 10-11 kids.....10 of them ended up playing a sport in college.....and yes...believe it or not, all 3 coaches were dads.     13U paid $450....plus sold 6-8 tickets to a bus trip to the casino....again, no problem.  14U.....$600....no fundraiser.  15U and 16U....I ran a team....kids paid $450....I was in the sporting goods business....5 jerseys, 3 pants, 3 hats...all included.  I ran a 3-day tourney with help from the parents.....all proceeds back to the team.  When the team broke up after 16U....each kid got a check for $250 which was leftover in our account.  Heck, at 15U and 16U we would pay for an extra hotel room or two each week for kids who didn't have a parent going....we also bought pizza or grilled burgers at least one night/weekend.   17U we paid $1400.....played on one of the most well-scouted teams in the Midwest.....6 or 7 top events with as many as 50 coaches attending.

Sure, those costs didn't include travel.....but I also didn't take a 2-week vacation to Florida each winter....I didn't play golf 3 nights/week and I didn't own a boat, a lakehouse or a convertible.   Our "fun" was the weeks/weekends away with the other families.  We spent 2 weeks in lakehouses....with boats and jet skis...probably the best 2 vacations we ever had. 

Yes, the total is a lot of money....if you include travel as part of the baseball costs.  Fortunately for us, we had great families and our baseball weekends were no different than everyone elses weekend at the lake or a campground somewhere.

I guess what I'm saying is you don't have to pay $2500/year to be on good (or even great) teams. Take your time...ask around and you can do it on a budget

"...but I also didn't take a 2-week vacation to Florida each winter....I didn't play golf 3 nights/week and I didn't own a boat, a lakehouse or a convertible...."

^^^^^This.

Mostly, I would say it is priorities.   We made the week in Atlanta our family vacay, one time staying on a lake.  We went three times and saw different things in the area each time.   We take advantage of weekends away to see a historic attraction and find the best BBQ in the area.  We pack a  cooler and a bag with a loaf of bread, peanut butter and snacks so we can have a quick lunch.  I knew of a family that took a crock pot and cooked meals in their hotel room.  Our hotels always included breakfast.  Get a credit card with a major hotel chain and rack up some points.   

Up through 12U, we played with dads as coaches and did local day-trip weekend tournaments with maybe one out of town tourney needed hotel rooms a year.  Cooperstown was mostly paid for by fundraisers....and yes, Cooperstown was our vacation that year, too.

After 12U we felt like our son needed to be coached by someone other than his dad.  Unfortunately, he went to a team that was coached by other dads.   We moved on from there, but taking instruction from someone other than HIS dad was beneficial. 

If you are with an academy type team, and you are the best of the best at 16U-17U, you may find there are "scholarships", "grants", etc...available.  They want the best to play for their team.  

We did pay for a once-a-week for 10 weeks lessons in the winter.  Get's them ready  for spring or high school ball.  In 9th grade we starting  paying for our son to work out with a sports-specific trainer, since we didn't belong to a gym.  While we watched some of his friends go the local gym to work out and eventually get hurt, son never got hurt by working with a professional.  

I realized early that we would be paying for extra activities for our children, whether it be baseball, or piano, or ballet, or whatever their interest.  We put baseball as a line item in our budget.   Son plays D1 now and we still have a line item in the budget.  If you want to see your son play in college, start budgeting now because it isn't cheap.

It is very hard for many families to transition from low cost daddy ball.   It basically boils down to priorities.

keewart posted:

If you want to see your son play in college, start budgeting now because it isn't cheap.

And I suppose that is what I wonder about.   Is that really true?   There is no way to play college ball without spending thousands and thousands of dollars on travel ball?

3and2Fastball posted:

keewart posted:

If you want to see your son play in college, start budgeting now because it isn't cheap.

And I suppose that is what I wonder about.   Is that really true?   There is no way to play college ball without spending thousands and thousands of dollars on travel ball?

I meant to say, if your son is playing in college and you want to see him play, keep the "baseball line item" in the budget because watching your son play college ball isn't cheap.

People have told me that if we have an independent team we won't even be able to get into Perfect Game tournaments when the kids are older, that we have to "pay the middle man" (the Academies).

The above is false.  There are many outstanding teams in our tournaments that are not associated with academies.  I've learned that team fees for players varies a lot, from no cost to thousands of dollars.

If a player is exceptionally talented but can't afford to get national level exposure, he doesn't have to look for a high level team.  He just needs to contact us.  

A few years ago there was a player that spent his last two HS Summer's attending individual PG showcases.  He was from the NE part of the country and his father used to contribute here.  We did get him into a couple big tournaments, including Jupiter WWBA in October.  He was committed to Florida State, but was drafted and signed out of HS as the 4th overall pick in the first round.

The most important thing IMO is playing the best possible competition.  Sometimes that might require some travel.  Most people have no idea how much talent there is, so they don't know where they fit in.  More importantly it is difficult to accurately evaluate players without good competition.  A lot depends on what a player wants.  If playing close to home is all you want, travel might not be as necessary.  If no desire to see what you are truly worth, travel might not be as necessary.  But if you want to really find out what all your opportunities are (or aren't) you probably need to do some traveling.  

BTW, I'm talking about 14 and older above.  And especially 16 and older.  Also don't think the best teams and best opportunities are the most expensive.  We have seen terrible teams without much talent that are among the most expensive.  And some of the very best teams in the country that are very reasonable.  So With this stuff it really isn't a "You get what you pay for" thing.

Just taking a different tack on the question...I understand the money part of it, and does cost some money to downright expensive.  And every family/situation is different.

This is generalizing and not focused at your son.  Does the kid work out on his own?  I mean 60 yd sprints in the street outside your house, core/bodyweight exercises in his room, lift at the HS gym/neighborhood gym?  Does he hit off of a tee into a net/blanket/bedsheet/shower curtain hanging from a tree?  Look at videos of hitters, pitchers, fielders to teach himself?  Look for buddies to throw with?  

Kids who really want it find a way to get work in.

PGStaff posted:

The above is false.  There are many outstanding teams in our tournaments that are not associated with academies.  I've learned that team fees for players varies a lot, from no cost to thousands of dollars.

 

The most important thing IMO is playing the best possible competition.  Sometimes that might require some travel.  Most people have no idea how much talent there is, so they don't know where they fit in.  More importantly it is difficult to accurately evaluate players without good competition.  A lot depends on what a player wants.  

Thank you so much for your reply.  That is good to hear.  And it makes sense.   Playing the best competition will require travel, because the best competition sure isn't in our home state (or region even!).

Now I need to figure out the most cost effective way to get that travel in.  

Go44dad posted:

Just taking a different tack on the question...I understand the money part of it, and does cost some money to downright expensive.  And every family/situation is different.

This is generalizing and not focused at your son.  Does the kid work out on his own?  I mean 60 yd sprints in the street outside your house, core/bodyweight exercises in his room, lift at the HS gym/neighborhood gym?  Does he hit off of a tee into a net/blanket/bedsheet/shower curtain hanging from a tree?  Look at videos of hitters, pitchers, fielders to teach himself?  Look for buddies to throw with?  

Kids who really want it find a way to get work in.

Godad you could not be more on target with this one!

3&2;

what city do you live? My hometown was Adrian Michigan and when I was 16 the local adult teams paid me $10.00 per game to travel to Toledo, Ohio [35 miles].

Now to be serious and switch to the 21 st Century. Why not rent a 24 pass van and schedule games at the local college campus with teams from your contact and the HS web site.

This is "barn storming". You will find a local sponsor to place a sign on the van and your uniforms. Call to negotiate hotel rates. I do this for 33 years with our International Goodwill Series.http://goodwillseries.org/

So at the youth level is takes about $15,000-$18,000 to run a good team in the Midwest.   That's with dad's coaching and covers 3 practices per week in an indoor facility, maybe some specific paid instruction (pitching, catching, etc.), uniforms, tourney/league fees, a few buckets of balls, etc.  Add a paid coach and you get into the mid $20,000.  So do the math based on the number of players.  From 10 to 15u, we paid between $1500-$1800 (Cooperstown year was $2500).  Some organizations would offset the fees with fundraising -- poker, bags, tournaments - put the parents had to "volunteer."  We took no more than 1 or 2 trips per year.  There was plenty of quality competition in our area. 

Now at HS age, with the transition to paid coaches, the costs have gone up exponentially for us.  You still have cheaper teams around, but daddy ball still reigns supreme.  So we avoid it like the plague.  His current organization is more "a la carte."  You can pick and choose how much you want to do.  You can do winter workouts 1 night or 5 nights if you want, take the team bus or drive yourself.  They do want you to room with a teammate, as opposed to parents, which adds to the cost.  I don't add it up anymore.  Thing is, by this time you can count how many games are left.  So you sit back an enjoy the twilight.  If he is fortunate enough to play at that next level, its gravy. 

So to answer 3&2, you just need to find the program that works for you.  There are all flavors available. 

I ran a 15U and 16U team when my son played.  Ohio HS baseball doesn't end until early June, so realistically we could play in 6 tourneys....we played in good ones....Pastime at U of M, Cincy Flames, etc.  We weren't some throw together rec team.  We had kids from all over NW Ohio...and a couple from lower Michigan....of our 14 kids, 5 are at D1's, 5 at D2/Juco and 1 went D1 in football.  Pretty good group....went 34-7 on the season with 3 tourney championships.

6 tourneys x $1200/tourney avg.............................$7200

Uniforms 14 kids x $100 (I had a screenprint biz)......$1400

Baseballs  ..................................................................$200

Total cost  $8600 / 12 position players and 2 PO's.....$650/position player and $400/PO

No cost for coaches...had 2 very qualified "dads"....one a former minor leaguer.

I ran a tourney both years that netted us about $3000/year after expenses.....so our total net cost was around $5600/year.  I guess what I'm saying is a good team can be run on a budget.  It doesn't take $$$$$$$$ to put together a quality team and get the kids good exposure.

PGStaff posted:

People

BTW, I'm talking about 14 and older above.  And especially 16 and older.  Also don't think the best teams and best opportunities are the most expensive.  We have seen terrible teams without much talent that are among the most expensive.  And some of the very best teams in the country that are very reasonable.  So With this stuff it really isn't a "You get what you pay for" thing.

When my son was 15, we played in a fall event in Florida.   After winning one of our pool games, I happened to walk past the opposing team's coach.  I over heard one of the dads yelling at this coach that he did not pay $3200 to fly to Florida and go 0-3.   Just another one who thought money bought success.  

2020dad posted:

Go44dad posted:

Just taking a different tack on the question...I understand the money part of it, and does cost some money to downright expensive.  And every family/situation is different.

This is generalizing and not focused at your son.  Does the kid work out on his own?  I mean 60 yd sprints in the street outside your house, core/bodyweight exercises in his room, lift at the HS gym/neighborhood gym?  Does he hit off of a tee into a net/blanket/bedsheet/shower curtain hanging from a tree?  Look at videos of hitters, pitchers, fielders to teach himself?  Look for buddies to throw with?  

Kids who really want it find a way to get work in.

Godad you could not be more on target with this one!

This is spot on....if my son didn't do this, I wouldn't be spending ANY money on baseball. 

Cost can also be very location dependent. We live in a town of 1,500. We have to drive 2 hours in any direction to reach a town over 15,000. Just putting together a team isn't an option. Getting on a team run by some dads who put together some good local talent is not an option. When the boy moved to travel at 13U academies where pretty much the only option. No one knew my son. I didn't know anyone and they were the ones having and advertising tryouts. So that's were we ended up. Yes it would be nice to form a team of the best local kids and play in local tournaments but here that's called Dixie league hahaha. 

We had to travel to find competition. We had to travel to see what the boys actuall skill level is. He was the best ball player in town by the 8th grade. Had he not traveled to realize he is a good but not great ball player we'd be wondering why the pro teams aren't calling yet lol. Do I wish we had a cheaper alternative? Well yes but we don't and neither do a lot of kids in the same situation. 

OT, but may help some parents- no need to travel at the younger.  Just play up.  You will see tougher competition.  10's VS 11's or 12's will do it.

My information is a bit dated by ~5 years but you can get by with lower costs. 

PGStaff did not mention but they (at least they used to) have PG teams at some of their events that used to cost ~$200 per player. My son did this once and it was a great experience. 

My son did not pay a dime for a pick up team that finished 3rd at the National USA baseball 16U tournament, beating many academy teams along the way. (Dads coached and a wealthy family picked up uniforms)  I believe we lost to SD Show, one of the top teams in the country at the time.  He also played on a local team in So Cal (SC Bombers) that routinely beat many of the top teams in the country we played. We only paid tournament fees and uniforms as the coaches were dads and other coaches donating time. (Its more now but still reasonable) SGV Arsenal was another reasonable local team.  

If it was me I would focus on instruction at the younger ages and forgo the teams until later. I realize this is harder in areas where weather is an issue. For pitchers, If I lived in or around Texas I would go to Wolforth, Seattle, Driveline, and So Cal TZAcademy (wolforth disciple) For younger position players reps are more important than games IMO, so dad can hit a ton of GB and throw BP for free, (plus you get the bonding time )

Play multiple sports, stay local, once pueberty hits everything changes and many of the "youth stars" fall away if they are not genetically gifted. (sorry but genetics play a bigger part than many of us want to admit)

JMO.