This is why reactive strength/speed is so important.
Too bad nobody trains properly for it.
There are batters who have the ability to foul off the 2 strike pitch until they get the one they like
so can we all agree that "staying back" is basically a combination of pitch recognition (and it's location) with proper timing?
typically the players i see who have "staying back" type problems are the ones who swing the exact same way, be it -inside FB, ChU away, CB in dirt... they have one swing for many pitches - and pitch locations...
typically the players i see who have "staying back" type problems are the ones who swing the exact same way, be it -inside FB, ChU away, CB in dirt... they have one swing for many pitches - and pitch locations...
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
To use your analogy comparing the brain to a computer........The conscience part of the brain would be the hardware.....The subconscience part of the brain would be the software.....
If the hardware interferes with the software, the software is compromised and can't utilize it's optimum effectiveness.....
Conscious and subconscious? Is that what you mean?
Bluedog I dont agree with everything you say on here but I do agree with the your understanding of the brain. I know it works with competitive shooters and I can see that it should work with hitting. As a sporting clays shooter if you try to think about how to break especially hard targets you will never ever get to the 90 percent broken catagory. but with practice at letting the brain take over you can reach that goal. I just think maybe you should try to get along with the guys on here a little bit. Everyone has a different idea about hitting and no one really knows...Swing an axe its all in there.
Staying back on the ball doesn't mean keep the body back. However, everyone that Yells that (STAY BACK) at a game means keep the body back. Bad advice!
quote:so can we all agree that "staying back" is basically a combination of pitch recognition (and it's location) with proper timing?
absolutely NOT
Wow am I ever confused about hitting, but to join the fray a bit...our eyes do a great deal for us...amazing invention by the Big Guy...but one thing they cannot do is follow a moving target smoothly---our eyes are connected to our sockets by muscle and ligs...their movement is more of a "jerky" movement along an axis...sorta like seeing every 3rd frame of a movie. Our brain, and in this SJS is correct it is our sub-concious brain function that "fills in" the gaps in the visual input...have you ever read one of those small paragraphs where you are asked to count the instances of the word "of" or "if?" We often miss them because our eyes race over the words--skipping from one to the next and our subconcious is filling in the blanks...its the reason we "react" to something that happens quickly---if we had time to think many of us would not be here! My example is being hit by a baseball---do you think, "get out of the way" or do you simply react? Reactions are in our subconcious and control our quick muscle reactions...I was always taught to think about the situation (a deliberate evaluation) before the pitch...then simply react to the ball and allow my "engrained through repetition" instincts to work.
GShew, thats called experience, but many theorist's here don't have any. Anyway, good stuff.
quote:Originally posted by Gshew:
I was always taught to think about the situation (a deliberate evaluation) before the pitch...then simply react to the ball and allow my "engrained through repetition" instincts to work.
Gshew,
IMO - Great observation.
It helps in every sport to visualize (and sometimes even anticipate) a particular play or move.
quote:.....if we had time to think
Great point......There is no time to think in the box.....Coaches who stand on third and bark instructions between pitches should understand this.....
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:quote:.....if we had time to think
Great point......There is no time to think in the box.....Coaches who stand on third and bark instructions between pitches should understand this.....
Doggie,
You need to get out on the field - and away from the computer lab and the whacked out theories that ensue.
I havent seen a 3rd base coach - or any coach for that matter - "Bark out" instructions to the hitter in between pitches since the little league days.
Get out on the field my man.
LOL
I’m one who believes in the importance of vision and tracking in hitting a baseball.
Understood that (I guess) it’s been proven the eyes can not really see the ball make contact with the bat. However… Wouldn’t the longer a hitter can track the ball and the better he can see the ball 50 feet away be a gigantic advantage?
By the way, right now my wife is driving down the highway at 75 mph. My eyes have no problem seeing and reading even the small signs clearly even as we pass them. I believe I could stand on the side of the highway and track cars close enough to read the make on them right up until they pass by. Of course we’re talking about a big object rather than a baseball. But wouldn’t some eyes be better than others.
If a hitter does not swing… can he see the baseball as it reaches the plate? If so… wouldn’t it be a benefit if he could do this while swinging. I do understand the theory behind being unable to change your swing path at a certain point.
These thoughts only deal with vision and tracking. IMO the better your vision and the longer you track the better you’re likely to hit.
Sorry, for bringing this up!
Understood that (I guess) it’s been proven the eyes can not really see the ball make contact with the bat. However… Wouldn’t the longer a hitter can track the ball and the better he can see the ball 50 feet away be a gigantic advantage?
By the way, right now my wife is driving down the highway at 75 mph. My eyes have no problem seeing and reading even the small signs clearly even as we pass them. I believe I could stand on the side of the highway and track cars close enough to read the make on them right up until they pass by. Of course we’re talking about a big object rather than a baseball. But wouldn’t some eyes be better than others.
If a hitter does not swing… can he see the baseball as it reaches the plate? If so… wouldn’t it be a benefit if he could do this while swinging. I do understand the theory behind being unable to change your swing path at a certain point.
These thoughts only deal with vision and tracking. IMO the better your vision and the longer you track the better you’re likely to hit.
Sorry, for bringing this up!
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
IMO the better your vision and the longer you track the better you’re likely to hit.
Simple - and true - and right to the point - as usual.
You youngsters out there might want to understand PG's opinion.
IMO.
"There's a fun book called "The Umpire Strikes Back", by Ron Luciano, a major league umpire who similarly doubted Williams's claim:
"[Ted Williams] claimed he could actually see the ball hit the bat. He said he could see if the bat hit one seam, two seams or missed the seams entirely. ... I told him that was impossible. The human eye doesn't work that precisely. Doctors knew it. Scientists knew it. Umpires knew it.
...In spring training, in 1972, he offered to prove it to me. Admittedly I was reluctant to go along with him. In his prime Williams had been one of the greatest hitters in baseball history, but at this time he was fifty-four years old. A hitter's reflexes usually start fading in his mid-thirties, and in Williams's case that was two decades earlier. I didn't want to embarrass him by shattering one of his beliefs, but he insisted. With my head down, I followed him to a practice field. He covered the barrel of a bat with pine tar and stepped up to the plate. A hard-throwing rookie had been recruited to pitch to him. I took a deep breath, anticipating what was going to be a very sad moment.
The young pitcher threw a bullet and Williams hit a rocket to center field. "One seam," he shouted confidently over his shoulder.
"Sure, Ted," I agreed. I was just glad he was still able to hit the ball. Someone retrieved it and brought it over to me. One seam was covered with pine tar.
He hit another pitch. "About a quarter inch above the $#%$%$% seam," he said.
That ball had a pine-tar scar just a quarter inch above the seam. He called five of seven perfectly, the most amazing display of hitting ability I've ever seen."
"[Ted Williams] claimed he could actually see the ball hit the bat. He said he could see if the bat hit one seam, two seams or missed the seams entirely. ... I told him that was impossible. The human eye doesn't work that precisely. Doctors knew it. Scientists knew it. Umpires knew it.
...In spring training, in 1972, he offered to prove it to me. Admittedly I was reluctant to go along with him. In his prime Williams had been one of the greatest hitters in baseball history, but at this time he was fifty-four years old. A hitter's reflexes usually start fading in his mid-thirties, and in Williams's case that was two decades earlier. I didn't want to embarrass him by shattering one of his beliefs, but he insisted. With my head down, I followed him to a practice field. He covered the barrel of a bat with pine tar and stepped up to the plate. A hard-throwing rookie had been recruited to pitch to him. I took a deep breath, anticipating what was going to be a very sad moment.
The young pitcher threw a bullet and Williams hit a rocket to center field. "One seam," he shouted confidently over his shoulder.
"Sure, Ted," I agreed. I was just glad he was still able to hit the ball. Someone retrieved it and brought it over to me. One seam was covered with pine tar.
He hit another pitch. "About a quarter inch above the $#%$%$% seam," he said.
That ball had a pine-tar scar just a quarter inch above the seam. He called five of seven perfectly, the most amazing display of hitting ability I've ever seen."
Of cousre, I have trouble seeing the ball off the bat now!
Swing quickness decides how long a hitter can wait to swing.....
Timing is a result of swing quickness and how well a hitter uses his vision....Amateur hitters, as a rule, don't have enough swing quickness or use their vision well enough to wait very long to swing....
That's why you hear coaches telling hitters to start their swing earlier....Doesn't work, but they do say it......Another thing coaches like to say is, get your hands through quicker....Doesn't work, either.....
Timing is a result of swing quickness and how well a hitter uses his vision....Amateur hitters, as a rule, don't have enough swing quickness or use their vision well enough to wait very long to swing....
That's why you hear coaches telling hitters to start their swing earlier....Doesn't work, but they do say it......Another thing coaches like to say is, get your hands through quicker....Doesn't work, either.....
Bluedog, excellent point on the vision comment. Pitch recognition is something that has to be a part of BP and I'm not talking about lob BP. Also, there is a lot to be said for the drills such as shooting tennis balls out of machines color coded and marked with numbers/letters etc. where the batter works on their vision and identifying both color and number. Color will always come first. However, if you are persistent, the number or letter will be identified more consistently.
Regarding phrases, most phrases are useful IF THE PLAYER UNDERSTANDS WHAT YOU MEAN. That isn't always the case. I also believe that when you use those phrases, you have to then figure out why a certain inability on the part of the hitter is manifested. It then is the coach's job to discern how to improve the player's weakness. The example given about "getting the hands through the ball quicker" would then require the coach to develope a drill, identify a weakness ... and communicate a "fix" to the player via repetitions in some manner to enable the player to improve. JMHO!
Regarding phrases, most phrases are useful IF THE PLAYER UNDERSTANDS WHAT YOU MEAN. That isn't always the case. I also believe that when you use those phrases, you have to then figure out why a certain inability on the part of the hitter is manifested. It then is the coach's job to discern how to improve the player's weakness. The example given about "getting the hands through the ball quicker" would then require the coach to develope a drill, identify a weakness ... and communicate a "fix" to the player via repetitions in some manner to enable the player to improve. JMHO!
Guys i need your advice for a hitter that invairably starts having quick feet at the plate.By this i mean when his stride is short and slow he drives the ball and has good angles to the ball.After time though he might start to double tap and then stride longer causing him to collapse the back leg {back hip,hamstring}has a quick bat but when he starts to do this he starts to lose his bat speed.i understand why, he is becoming disconnected.He has always said he does'nt realize he starts going down this path until he is there.He is a shortstop and has naturally quick feet.What would your advice be on this problem? Should he work on just having a lift-no stride.Naturally he has always said he feels better with a stride.I believe he is trying to get his power from the feet and not his core or middle to the ball.DO you think i am off base here?Blue and Vance i do like a lot of what you post on here and learn a lot at times from the banter.I wish i had found this board years ago.Thanks in advance fellow baseballers.
bdt, I see alot of hitters who do this.....And, I have found they are not using their vision properly....That makes them not trust their swing quickness, IMO.....They are not getting that quick snapshot of the ball in the first few feet of travel out of the pitcher's hand....Getting lazy with vision technique causes problems with swing movement....
