How to Torture a College Baseball Player

I don't see the value in a punishment workout at the college level. But there is nothing keeping them on that field except their own voluntary participation. Transfer to a DII. Go where they treat you like a student athlete and not a private in the Marines. Now if you expect to do an amphibious assault on a pacific island as a member of a machine gun squad.....I'd say that workout isn't near hard enough.

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I don't see the value in a punishment workout at the college level. But there is nothing keeping them on that field except their own voluntary participation.

It isnt as easy as you think when your an 18 year old kid.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this whatsoever.

http://www.johnsoncitypress.co...rticle.php?id=100500

This is an idiotic disgruntled parent trying to stir the pot for no reason. Find me a college baseball program at any level that does not hold morning workouts, intense conditioning practice or punishment for breaking team rules.

And just for reference, those workouts didn't seem all that terribly difficult to me just from watching these videos. Fun? No, probably not. Abusive? You've got to be joking.

[quote]This is an idiotic disgruntled parent trying to stir the pot for no reason. Find me a college baseball program at any level that does not hold morning workouts, intense conditioning practice or punishment for breaking team .


I agree it happens.

If a coach wants to fire up a team I don't see the value of this kind of punishment. The way to make them pay is have the practice that never ends comprised totally of basic fundamentals. While it ticks the players off, at least they gain something from it.

A friend's son played at a regularly ranked program that has won CWS's. After a weekend sweep the coach made the players run sprints until every one of them puked. He told them not to mess up his field. He placed a plastic trash bag on the field. Every player had to stick their head in the same bag to puke.

As for the parent posting the video I figure his son is a senior or planning on transferring. It's a career limiting move for his son.

I don't think the coach is trying to fire his players up. He is probably trying to figure out who is willing to put out and who is not willing to. He is probably trying to figure out who really wants to be there and who doesn't. He is probably trying to see if anyone is going to quit. He might be trying to build some mental toughness? He might be telling them that losing is not going to happen without consequences. Maybe they were laughing it up after the loss? Maybe they were acting like they didn't care if they lost? Maybe he wants to see how they handle the work outs? Do they moan and cry or do they man up?

From watching those videos I have a hard time trying to figure out what is so tough? I put my HS team through works outs much tougher. This parents should walk down to the field and get his son and save everyone the trouble. Maybe the coach feels his team lacks toughness? Maybe he wants to find out who is mentally tough and who the P's are?

Abusive? That has to be a joke.

How to Torture a College Baseball Player? Have him play in a program that doesn't care and doesn't hold the team accountable for their actions or level of play.

I could have missed it but did the film maker identify himself as a father of a player? He might be a local fan. Either way I think he's a pretty funny commentator.

Read the findings of an investigation of this practice here:

ETSU Investigation

Findings

1.Neither Coach Skole, Coach Bunn, nor trainer Brian Johnston engaged in any misconduct or inappropriate activity in the disciplinary session conducted on May 14, 2012.

2.There were no violations of NCAA rules or guidelines regarding “day off” as a result of the event. The players scheduled practice for May 14 was canceled, and the team had its “day off” on Wednesday in Atlanta.

3.While there did appear to be at least some confusion as to whether the session was a result of poor play at the Saturday or Sunday games versus Stetson, or a breaking of curfew by a player or players on Saturday night, either of these reasons might very well be a basis for such a practice.

The May 14 event broke no rules and appropriate safeguards were in place to protect the participants at all times. The activities do not appear to constitute player abuse, but were rather disciplinary actives resulting from either a less than satisfactory on field performance and/or the breaking of a team rule regarding curfew.

Interesting quote from the Coach:


Coach Skole stated that he initiated the Monday morning practice as punishment as a result of a player or players breaking curfew on the weekend of May 12 prior to two weekend games against league opponent Stetson, where the team played very poorly. The purpose of the event was to punish the team for a rule violation. Coach Skole indicated that such punishments are occasionally necessary, but are not regular. He stated that he had not had another situation requiring this type of discipline in three years. This has been confirmed by a senior player. He indicated that the event took approximately thirty minutes, that water and medical supplies were available, and that the team trainer, Brian Johnston, was present at all times. He indicated that the players seemed healthy at the conclusion. Coach Skole stated that practice scheduled for Monday afternoon was cancelled. The players received their “day off” in Atlanta, where they attended a Braves game, on Wednesday May 16.

Obviously "Rusty" has never tried P90X.

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Either way I think he's a pretty funny commentator.

Is this commentator part of the Blue Collar Comedy tour? Is this guy serious? I love the part about stealing bases like frogs. "You have to walk before you can hop".

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"How to Torture a College Baseball Player? Have him play in a program that doesn't care and doesn't hold the team accountable for their actions or level of play."

Absolutely on the mark. I've seen just a program... a very sad situation.



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I must be missing something.

I am confused as to the exact reason for this type of monday morning "workout". I think others are as well.

The coach states it was for breaking team rules, but the players stated they thought that it was for their performance on the field. If the coach had this workout for retaliation, would that be in violation of NCAA rules and probably the schools policy as well? So no way is he going to admit that was the purpose of the "workout". As far as an endless practice, there are NCAA rules that prohibit excessive practice time. If he is doing that to make them quit, just let the ones go who shouldn't be there.

If a few players broke the rules avoiding curfew, then punish those players, not the entire team. But it is pretty apparent that is not the real reason.

I feel the investigation went in favor of the coaches and probably was biased in it's conclusion for a reason to help the program save face. I don't know about anyone else, but if my son was being recruited by those coaches, I think he would think twice about whether those coaches would be who you would want to spend the next 3-4 years with after watching that video. Damage in a sense has already done.

Maybe the parent was disgruntled but being a parent with a son in that program, he probably knows more about what goes/went on at that program than we or anyone else will ever know. We all know about things that go on and we often don't speak up about it as to not make the program or coach look bad that we sent our players to. I am tired of it always being about the disgruntled parent (yes the guy was funny). How did he know to be there at 6am?

The assistant coach has worked with some well respected D1 head coaches, who I doubt would ever use this "workout" to punish for what 1 or 2 did, or for lack of performance. You have to hold yourself accountable for as well as your players for lack of success.

I am pretty much in favor of a coach that gives tough love and disciplines his team. I am not naive, but again I doubt that you would find any really truly good coaching staff that would use the excuse that the coach did for the workout.

While the players play the game, the ultimate responsibility for any team and results rests on management or the coaching staff.

The losing record is a reflection on the coach, JMO.

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Originally posted by TPM:
I am pretty much in favor of a coach that gives tough love and disciplines his team. I am not naive, but I doubt that you would find any really truly good coaching staff that would punish an entire team for what 1 or 2 did, and there are other ways to "punish".

I've had coaches that told the guy who was late to practice, or whatever, to get a cold drink, take a knee and watch everyone else run around the goalposts. Then, the offender gets to be front and center for every blocking and tackling drill known to man. That's usually the last time they're late.

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Originally posted by AntzDad:

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Originally posted by TPM:
I am pretty much in favor of a coach that gives tough love and disciplines his team. I am not naive, but I doubt that you would find any really truly good coaching staff that would punish an entire team for what 1 or 2 did, and there are other ways to "punish".

I've had coaches that told the guy who was late to practice, or whatever, to get a cold drink, take a knee and watch everyone else run around the goalposts. Then, the offender gets to be front and center for every blocking and tackling drill known to man. That's usually the last time they're late.

And there are coaches who will bench that player for the next game or two for being late. While those that were on time played.

The problem I have here is maybe the real reason not being given by the coach in the investigations, he said for 1 or 2 breaking curfew, the players said for poor performance. Which is it? Surely they must have been given a reason for showing up at 6 am on a monday morning (NCAA off day) and that apparently is the one they gave.

And we all know how programs work in favor of protecting their coaches.

BTW, has anyone ever been to Stetson? I just can't imagine where any player would be after curfew in that town!

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Originally posted by TPM:
[And there are coaches who will bench that player for the next game or two for being late. While those that were on time played.

The problem I have here is maybe the real reason not being given by the coach in the investigations, he said for 1 or 2 breaking curfew, the players said for poor performance. Which is it? Surely they must have been given a reason for showing up at 6 am on a monday morning (NCAA off day) and that apparently is the one they gave.

And we all know how programs work in favor of protecting their coaches.

It could have been a situation where a coach just went on a rant after the game and said "cya at 6 A.M." I've had coaches who do that. And they will say, if asked by the player, I am the coach of this team. I don't owe you guys an explanation.


By the way, thanks for the Johnson City Press investigation read. I hadn't seen it.

Too many people in this world with not enough to do. What was he doing and why did he post this?

If you've ever, in your life, been a part of a unit, or a team working together for the survival, or good of the group, then you should understand how and why this stuff is sometimes necessary.

That little "get your attention" session was anything but abusive. Obviously, Dad whomever he was never served .... in anything and likely never played on a winning team AND certainly he's never Coached.

You don't need to dish out physical penalties for "non-performance" but sometimes there is a need to get their attention.

Kids sure are getting soft these days.

Back in HS football we would have called that "warming up".

I'm Forest, Forest Gump.

This story is getting more attention than it deserves. Maybe the "punishment" was a little excessive, and probably not the best way to address the issues. But, it was not so over the line as to warrant the investigation and attention it got.

Having said that, I tend to agree with TPM. The report does read as a bit of a whitewash. Head coach says this is the only time he has done this in the last 3 years, and I have no reason to doubt him. However, the kids that played for the assistant at his last two jobs will tell you this is common practice for him.

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Originally posted by TPM:
BTW, has anyone ever been to Stetson? I just can't imagine where any player would be after curfew in that town!

Looking for coed's would pop to mind.

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If a few players broke the rules avoiding curfew, then punish those players, not the entire team.

When the entire team gets punished they come together policing the problem in the future. A coach can't always be there to tell if someone is breaking curfew. But if I'm a player seeing someone about to break curfew after going through that workout, I go stone cold and tell the player, "If I have to go through that again over you. I'll kill you." I'm betting the player decides not to break curfew.

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Originally posted by TPM:
BTW, has anyone ever been to Stetson? I just can't imagine where any player would be after curfew in that town!

Maybe the players were out trying to figure out where the town rolls up it's sidewalks after 9pm.

When I was a young Marine Private in boot camp back in '81, this PT would have been welcomed with open arms! Just saying.

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Originally posted by Rob T:
Kids sure are getting soft these days.

Back in HS football we would have called that "warming up".

In high school we tied a game we should have won. We spent Monday running 52 rows of concrete stadium steps in full uniform for two hours.

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Originally posted by RJM:
52 rows of concrete stadium steps in full uniform for two hours.

I bet I could still do 52 rows in two hours.

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Yeah...downhill...with a stiff tailwind!

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The best way to hold your players accountable in a program is for your players to hold each other accountable. If I have to get up in the morning and run, miss practice because we had to run instead I am going to be ready to hold someone accountable for that. If I am doing what I am supposed to be doing. And your not doing what your supposed to be doing. And I have to run because of your actions. If I want to win very badly and I think your actions are hurting our chances of winning I am going to be upset with you.

So I would expect that those responsible for this work out are now on notice from those that were not responsible. There are times to discipline as individuals and there are times to discipline as a team. The coach of this program knows the situation much better than we do. He knows his players much better than we do.

The fact that a Dad was present at the work out tells me everything I need to know. Someone informed him that coach was going to run them in the morning. Dad shows up with a video camera. How pathetic. Prime9 hit the nail on the head in his post.

If I know there is going to be a party during the season and I have told the players no parties I can approach this situation in a number of ways. I can try to find out who was at the party. Punish those individuals that I find out were there. Or I can wait for practice the next day and simply decide to run them and see who pukes his guts out. And then let those not responsible for the running to inform those that were what is going to happen the next time they break the rules.

Anyone who doesn't understand this simply has never played the game at a high enough level to understand. This type of stuff goes on at every program I am aware of. Including those that are regulars at the CWS. The players are held accountable by their peers much better than they ever will by a coaching staff.

The coach states he did it because curfew was broken, the players questioned said it was for a different reason. Why were there differnt stories? Who is not being truthful? Must be the players, because coaches never lie and never do anything wrong!

Absolutely this stuff goes on in every program. Kids mess up. So do coaches.

I do not believe for one moment that the punishment was for 1 or 2 who messed up curfew. I believe that it was because the coach was embarassed by the losses which gave the program a 296 % in his conference with a record of 8-19. Heck I would be embarrassed too.

If a coach feels that he has to make the players accountable fine, but the coaching staff has to be accountable as well. With that record it wasn't about 1 or 2 missing curfew. This wasn't an excercise to build character the coach admitted it was for punishment. Perhaps he should have done those character/team building excercises in the fall, not before end of the year. That's just the way I see it.

In other words, man up coach and state the real reasons why you were ****ed off!

MTH, Bunn worked under Jack Leggett. Although not always on top of the players fav person list, that's not JL's style, and he would never have allowed that.

Maybe I never was a coach, but I was a teacher for many many years, I understand discipline. Someone tipped the parent off, why, maybe it's because he had gone over the edg? We have no idea what transpired during the season.

Here is the bottom line. This school's administration supports this. So, as a parent, if this treatment is ok in your mind, then send your son there. For that matter, send your child there since this same type of activity is fine with the administration regardless of sport.

I agree with TPM on this one. BTW, I noticed that some posters in this thread were against running players as punishment after games in another thread and now treating players like this is fine. IMO, punish the offenders. I understand that the idea is to have the players police the players. How about the coach stepping up and policing the players. Take their scholarship away or bench them and let everyone know why. That will take care of everything. To punish players who have been loyal to the coach and staff in a losing program is not acceptable.

Now, to TPM's point that the suggestion from the players was because they had lost games, why isn't this coach running? When a team is losing or a program is losing as this one apparently is, the coach had better look in the mirror first. I noted in another thread that I did run my players for punishment. I also ran with them. If they needed to "get their minds right," then I need to as well. You want to build moral and team chemistry? Run until you puke as a coach. I have pleanty of times.

Finally, there is a fine line between punishment and abuse. The one parent in the article stated that this uniersity is walking a thin line between punishment and a tragedy. I pray that doesn't happen. We had a young man die in our state yesterday during opening football practice. Who knows why? However, the program is being second guessed all over the state and a tragedy is just getting worse by all of the attention before any of the facts are out. As we all know, it might have been due to a preexisting condition that no one knew about. Wasn't it in Tennessee a couple of years ago where another young man died? Coaches who punish players had better be aware of what happens if they error. JMHO!

Just dropped off Junior in Alabama , his schedule for the next 3 weeks :
6:30 AM Run hills and valley's till Coach gets tired .
8:00 AM Class till noon
12:00 PM weight lifting for 1 hour
1:00 PM lunch
2:00 PM till 3:30 PM Study
3:30 till 6:00 PM Practice followed by sprints
Not punishment , merely wants to win a Championship
Winners Train , Losers Complain !

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Originally posted by Coach_May:

How to Torture a College Baseball Player? Have him play in a program that doesn't care and doesn't hold the team accountable for their actions or level of play.

Coach May, accurate statement, yes, son found such a program, made him so disappointed he actually said he hated to be on the field.

This one is simple. The Coach decided to have a team session in the morning. Why is this guy out there filming? My guess is he is a disgruntled dad. If he doesn't like it there are choices and one of them is to leave the team. No one on this site knows what the reasons really are, just a lot of speculation. Coach has every right to hold this session, it's HIS team. No justification required.

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Originally posted by Coach_May:

How to Torture a College Baseball Player? Have him play in a program that doesn't care and doesn't hold the team accountable for their actions or level of play.

Chicago Cubs?

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Ouch!

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I am in agreement with CoachB.

I think the coaching staff got caught doing something they knew might cause a stink by someone and that is why they had a clearer video. Did they make it, if so, why, have your sons every had a 6am work out for punishment ( or any reason) and had it filmed by the coaching staff?

There are workouts that are intense and players end up puking their guts out. My son used to have workouts like that, the Omaha Challenge, being his first at college. That's not unusual. That's not the point. Even a physician had concerns.

Again I don't believe for one minute this was about missed curfew, my belief is that he lied to protect his a$$. That's what makes me angry. If these guys are afraid of him and reprecussions, they are not going to say what is really on their minds.

It appears to me he is a coach with a losing record who can't face the fact ( be accountable) that maybe he is the reason his program stinks! It seems that it is much easier to blame his anger at non performance on players missing curfew! Man up coach!

I am glad this got attention. This is not how really good coaches run their programs.

Bench riding, whiny son called dad to complain that they were going to have to do a 6am punishment workout for whatever reason. Disgruntled (heliicopter) dad says, "I'll show you!" and heads out to field to video and add his commentary to upload to youtube. Has nothing good to say about the coach to begin with so it's obvious what his motive is/was.

I'm with you TPM. Workouts until you puke are not that uncommon. Many college have at least one a year.

This coach has run a bad to mediocre program to a long time. He's either a bad recruiter or a bad coach or both. He got swept over the weekend, was ****ed off and called for 6am basic training as punishment. If it was a curfew issue this late in the year I think you handle with the players involved. Probably bench them for the last 4 games.

It would be my guess, based on this event and the coach's lousy record that he doesn't have the respect of too many of his players. Might be time for ETSU to make a change if they are interested in winning.