How would you rank the D1 programs in Virginia?

I think JMU is a TBD. Just don't know where to rank this pending the new coach (and staff?) and renewed recruiting efforts. Wonderful stadium, sure, but their recruiting efforts are in abeyance. Per PG: 4 2015 recruits and 0 2016 recruits.

My son is a freshman at NSU  and I can happily say that he loves it there. As a freshman he was the starting pitcher against Virginia, he was in his glory that day, his dad was a  nervous wreck.

Just to clarify that was VT he started against

VCU needs to be higher. 8 NCAA regionals since 1998.

 

Radford is too high. They've never been to a regional. Can't have them ahead of schools like Mason that get to one every four or five years.

 

With NSU's recent probation, I would have to rank them last. 

Great things are happening at Liberty, but Tech is an ACC program and not at all a bottom feeder there.  They have swept UVA this season and but for an unfortunate 27th-out error would've taken a series from Florida State. 

 

I don't want to get into splitting hairs, but there has to be an appreciation for baseball at the ACC or SEC level vs. mid-major conferences.

 

Some may point out that mid-majors win midweek games against Tech or UVA and that is true.  Baseball is a game where the dominant team wins maybe 75% of the time, but that also means it loses 25% of the time.  One bad outing by a freshman getting his feet wet can lose a game; one great outing by the same kid can win one.  IMHO, you can't let that sort of thing mislead you.  There is a level of talent at the ACC programs that is not matched anywhere else in our state.

Its been a while since I watched a VT game, however I really liked the setting and large lawn area plus parking was easy, except on graduation day. They have the indoor batting cage that doubles as an infield and they  have access to the indoor track next to the field. In terms of facilities the less obvious difference is the training staff and other equipment not at the field. When your school has a legit D1 football program you get good trainers you don't have to wait for and really good weight room equipment.  My son broke his hand he was x-rayed and seen by a doctor all within 45 minutes on campus.  When he was at a non-d1 football school he was sent to the local emergency room which took 6 hours and cost me $500.

 

In terms of league play I did notice that most of the ACC teams have much deeper pitching staffs which stand out once they reach a regional.

Where's VMI in this ranking?

Major overlook.

They did beat Virginia this week 7-6. Nice facility.  New head coach.  Lots of Richmond talent.

Midlo dad forgive me. I am an ACC fan but I find it extremely difficult to compare the ACC with the SEC. We haven't won anything in a long time. Baseball in Central VA has improved greatly over the years but to put UVA and VT on a higher platform that the rest I believe is unfair and unfounded.

UVA would do just fine in the SEC...they were Vandy's equal last year and may have won it all had one hitter not turned around 97 at his throat for an unlikely homer.

Also just a reminder...Longwood is also D1.

Enjoyed reading some of the responses. And yes, I forgot VMI! Sloppy list making. Did it off the top of my head and just left them out. I'd maybe stick them somewhere around UR/VCU. I will also give a nod to my too high ranking of Radford. I will hold steady on VCU. I respect what they have accomplished but when I think of programs - a place where it'd be great for a kid to go and have a great baseball experience - I don't know, I just think the atmosphere of playing in front of no one at an off-campus crumbling stadium..it just doesn't have the appeal for me. But they have an excellent on the field product.

 

As for Tech…I recognize that gun to my head, I'd maybe rank them higher. The smaller conferences pale in comparison to the ACC - and they have had relative success in recent years. On the field, no arguments. But I think Liberty's facilities, coaching staff and atmosphere are strong…and I love the environment at ODU. I also think the ODU staff is second only to Virginia and their facility just screams college baseball. I don't know…maybe I stick to my original Top 4. 

 

It's fun to think about and of course, everyone values different things…and we all have our biases. 

I included Longwood on my list…and at the bottom of the list. After watching a few innings of their game against Coastal tonight, I am confident of my ranking. 

Could not agree more with you on JMU. I saw earlier this week where their RPI was something like 250. That's just unreal to me. They really should be a team that competes in their conference every year, makes the occasional regional, etc. Nice facility, good school experience, public school tuition, and a great brand in RVA, Tidewater, NoVa and populous NE states. Someone is going to get that job and be a hero.

VaBaseball1919, 

 

It's your list and you can assign and weigh criteria any way you want to, but it is interesting that although you started by talking about how much you like data, your rankings seem most swayed by the appearance of stadiums and campuses.  But it's your list; you can stack it however you want.

 

For all your confidence about Longwood being at the bottom, they have played .500 ball over the past five seasons, and their RPI has averaged 90 places higher than Norfolk State's over this year and the previous two seasons.  

 

 

Not sure how I didn't notice Longwood. Sorry about that. Also re: record last five years- I will warn you that if you look at pre-2012 schedules there are lots of Va St, UMES, UMBC, etc. And bc of no conference they could throw their best arms in midweek games.

With that said, they're definitely not the bottom feeder in state D1s...just this year they're 4-1 vs in state competition.

From the responses I've read so far, I think additional context is needed.  For example, one poster suggests Radford should be lower, and Mason higher due to Mason's ability to make a regional every now and again.  Sounds completely logical until I ask myself "why?"!  To be fair, Mason plays in a weak baseball conference while Radford is an ascending program in an ascending conference.  Three different Big South teams (Liberty being one of those) were highly ranked last season, and it has recently been more than a one bid league.  

 

So my question is this:  are we ranking them based upon a 20-30 year tradition, or are we looking at where they've been most recently, where they are now, and where they appear to be heading? 

 

If the answer is the former, then UVA nor Tech should be ahead of ODU, and Radford would be near the bottom.  If the answer is the latter, then by all means Radford would rank ahead of George Mason, and much closer to the top.

 

Even as George Mason went to a Regional in 2014, (perhaps due to conference) Radford was 20 spots higher in the RPI.

 

As I write this Liberty and UVA are the only two Virginia D1s ranked higher in the RPI than Radford, which is presently No. 48.

 

 

Longwood beat Coastal today.  They have 2 legit pro prospect pitchers tis year, but based on their past they deserve to be 11-12 on your list.

Guys, 

It's bad enough that you're selectively applying criteria based on where you want to rank the schools (e.g., Longwood's history is used against it, but the tournament histories of Mason and VCU don't count for them, and Norfolk State's history just gets ignored).

 

But now you're also making up facts. Let's start with this fairy tale that Radford plays in a tougher conference than Mason. The A-10's conference RPI has not been lower than 10t among the 33 D1 conferences in the last five seasons. Their former conference, the CAA was usually in the mid-teens. Big South, on the other hand, has languished between 25 & 30 except for is breakout season of 2011 when it was 22nd.

 

And then let's consider this notion that Longwood's "history" should consign them to the basement. What history are you talking about? They joined D1 for the 2008 season, joined a conference the first year they were eligible for postseason play, were demonstrably better than NSU by the time their first D1 recruiting class were upper class men and consistently outperformed them ever since. That history you sneer at looks like a pretty smooth transition to D1.

 

If you want this thread to go anywhere, pick some criteria, apply them consistently, and stop making stuff up.

 

2013 Men's College Baseball Conference RPI - WarrenNolan.com

2014 Men's College Baseball Conference RPI - WarrenNolan.com

2015 Men's College Baseball Conference RPI - WarrenNolan.com

 

Who exactly is making stuff up???????

Oh rats!

 

Major embarrassment here! I was in the wrong sport at Warren Nolan! (It's some consolation that the numbers were very surprising to me.)

 

I withdraw the comments about conference RPI but my other points about selectively choosing and applying criteria stand. 

When I began this ramble, I had no real criteria and no desire to create weighted categories or crunch numbers. It was just off the top of my head and I wondered how others would feel about it. I think it makes for interesting conversation.

 

I do think facilities are an important proxy for the level of investment a school has in baseball and how strong the program is, year in and year out. Ask Clemson if facilities are important to having a successful program? They have fallen behind in the 'arms race' and investing big money to catch up. 

 

The fact that Longwood beat Coastal today, to me, is irrelevant. It's baseball. One win at Coastal isn't not a program defining win. If it is, then I was 100% correct in listing them last. I think Longwood has sub-par facilities, have shown minimal commitment to baseball and would generally be regarded as a poor program. Now, I expect that it'll get better in the coming years but right now, it's subpar compared to other schools in the state. Better than Norfolk State? I'd probably concede that point without a ton of argument. Longwood has a strong edge now that they are in a conference, they have a new staff that I think will do well. But right now, their program is at or near the bottom.

 

I think the more interesting question is who are the next 2-3 on the list after UVa? My first take was that Tech was obviously the #2 program in the state. But then I started thinking about it and - based on the way I think about - they aren't. Again, my points are weakened because of no real criteria - just one man's opinion. 100 people would make this list 100 different ways.

 

Again, it's not science. My statement - I love data - is not to imply data went into this list. I was digging into the RPI's (I love data) and it led me to think about this.

 

Maybe we should come up with some system…last 5 years RPI, could you host a regional at your home park, number of players drafted in last 5 years? That would be fun to hash out. 

 

 

 

 

VaBaseball1919,

 

I definitely look at this list differently.  Not so much comparing against each other (they all have good points and bad points) but measured against itself and recent results and any tidbits of info on the program I hear.  

 

Is the program on the rise in 2015, hit a snag or declining over a year or a few years. For example, anybody who follows college baseball knows Virginia is a decent team but has hit a rough patch recently.  They are defintely struggling despite a #25 national ranking which I personally think is a gift. They've got talent and coaches that know how to turn things around.  They'll be fine.  But schools like VT, W&M, Liberty, Richmond, and Radford intrigue me because significant investments are being made into facilities and/or new coaches.  

 

The goal for each one of these schools is to win their conference and get to the NCAAs to possibly make a run.  The big boys (UVA and VT) are expected to get to at least a super regional if they make the NCAA tourney.  The other state teams not so much.  So, this is why I take this view of comparing each to itself rather than against each other.

 

It is tough for college coaches to have an unlimited pipeline of talent every year. Coaches swing and miss on recruits every year, but some programs are able to make the numbers work by spreading the risk to the players based on demand into the program.  But I look at your list as up, down or neutral based on the program measured against itself.

 

1.-  Virginia - down. 

2 - Virginia Tech - up

3. - Liberty - up

4. - Richmond - up

5. - William & Mary - up

6. -  VCU - neutral

7. - Radford - up

8. -  VMI - neutral

9. - Old Dominion - down

10- James Madison - down . 

11.-  George Mason - down

12.-  Norfolk State - up

13.-  Longwood - down

 

As always, JMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Our lists aren't dramatically different — so therefore, I think you are spot on! The biggest difference I see is with ODU. I really like that program and think they are on the rise. They have a great facility and are making improvements (new hitting facility, batters eye, etc) and I give them points for their conference affiliation. To me, playing the majority of your schedule against warm weather teams vs. teams going north like A10 teams means something. I also think they are extremely well-coached. They are struggling a little as of late but I really think they have a chance to be a regional team more seasons than not. Bottom line is if a kid wants to play D1 baseball in Virginia, there are a lot of great choices.

I would think it'd be more of a concern of how they ranking academically.  Just personally looking at the bigger picture.  My son passed up some "stronger" baseball programs for better academics.   This makes me prouder than his performance on the field.

This has been a fun thread to keep up with.

 

I won't be adding my list.

 

I'll say this, every single school has LOTS of positives.  I've been on every campus in the last year.  They all offer wonderful opportunities. 

 

We are lucky to have such wonderful choices of high education in state.  And the baseball is pretty darn good too!

 

I like where BBallFan2012's head is at concerning the academic side.  I'll take it another point further, I hope players & families are looking at "best fit".  Not just best "team".

 

We'll be helping players learn what their best fit looks like again next summer.  

 

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com/bus_tour

 

 

Excellent point on the academic side. As I thought about this, I was not thinking about academics. Certainly, W&M and Richmond would take a dramatic leap if this was a part of the equation.

 

I think PIS makes a good point if you think about the recruiting aspect. To me, kids personal lists should not just include "who do I think has the best program" but rather, "where will I fit the best." Those are dramatically different questions.

 

To add, there are some tremendous D3 programs/schools in our Commonwealth. Just think about it. W&L takes a backseat to no one academically. There are unique schools like Mary Washington and Christopher Newport that offer the D3 experience at state-supported schools. Virginia has it all.

VaBaseball1919,

 

No question, in the recruiting game it is all about "fit".  It would be very difficult to factor in each VA baseball program, every school, every financial situation and every academic major, every NCAA Division level to come up with a subjective list to compare and contrast.  It is impossible because everyone is different with different priorities and goals

 

But, that is exactly what each recruit & family is tasked with whether they like it or not.  So resources such as HSBBWeb, travel & HS coaches and services like PIS's college bus tour can give a recruit a lot of information and exposure to try to make an informed decision before making that committment.  The risk is on the recruit, so finding that "fit" is incredibly important.  Athletic transfer rates are not published but the transfer business is alive and well and sometimes it isn't the recruit's fault that a coach leaves....yet he has to deal with the fallout  Sorry to take this thread in another direction, but I really think it is important to mention just how important "fit" is, because recruits lose eligibility time and money (add'l years in college) over this stuff.   "Fit" takes alot of homework and research.  It is fun to rank programs and discuss the various VA schools (as we have in this thread) but the reality is that it is so much about "fit" and alot of cases...luck.  JMO.

Agreed. I think the biggest challenge kids/families have is they rely on the school/program to find them vs. being proactive and seeking out the best fit school. It's like the kid that goes to the dance with the first person who asks. The more the kid can 'choose the school' vs. having the school choose them…the better chance of finding a good academic, social and athletic fit. 

Radford is trying to change the rankings as we speak.

 

After winning a series from Liberty, they're about to do the same from Coastal and take over first place in the Big South.

 

Impressive.

 ......and they beat Virginia Tech yesterday in a midweek game (4/21/15).

Norfolk State is having its best season in a very long time.  They are dominating the MEAC and could be on track for a tourney bid.  

Bunch of great kids. They have plenty of pitchers to spare and  haven't really use their hard throwing arms as they're mostly playing INF. But they will be a  great asset  once the tournament start.

Ok, I feel a little bit vindicated on my list of rankings as the season has unfolded. I wasn't doing my list of "Who is best in 2015?" but ODU beats Virginia again…and plays in front of the largest crowd in the history of Va college baseball. Liberty continues to impress and my 6 program - Radford - has taken a step forward. This has been fun to see everyones comments.

Good Lawd!

 

Radford over JMU 22-1, 11-3, and 25-9.

Yeah... that's sure something.   There's something special going on at Radford.  

 

What's (or maybe Who's) it gonna take to right the ship in Harrisonburg?  For a dozen reasons, I personally want that to be a better program, especially in two years.

It does indeed look like there is something special going on at Radford this season...

Highlanders knocked off Coastal Carolina yesterday to win their first Big South tournament, after winning the regular season title as well.  Riding a 15-game winning streak, 43-14 record, and national ranking, they could advance to a Super Regional with a favorable NCAA draw.

With a 15 RPI shouldn't Radford be in the discussion as a host for the regionals?  I don't know what the requirements are in regards to seating capacity and so forth but I would think they should be in the discussion.

 

Or, is it a possibility that a UVA could host as a 2 seed with RU being the 1 seed?  Is there precedent for such a situation that anyone can remember off the top of their heads?

 

In any event - RU is on an incredible run - and with the an outside shot of one of their best players (2B and leadoff hitter Josh Gardiner) returning for the regionals they are only getting stronger.

 

On a related DL note - rumor has it that Nathan Kirby has been throwing and could be eying a return for the tournament as well... that bodes well for the Cavs who are seeming to be on an uptick since the midpoint of the year.