HS Coach Calling Pitches

My son had exactly the same problem as a starting varsity pitcher for 2 years. The coach absolutely would not change his pitch calling and loved the curve ball. Eventually my son talked to the pitching coach and politely mentioned that he was a fast ball pitcher and did not think that calling all the curve balls was effective (and not to mention harmful to their arms). My husband also talked to the coach about the pitch count and the curve balls (they did not keep a pitch count!) My son was immediately benched for the rest of his senior year. Make sure your son has a legitimate and reasonable reason for talking to the coach and do it carefully! Some coaches will listen and some will not. Actually having my son benched was the best thing for him, as the other starting pitchers all had sore arms and my son is the only pitcher from this varsity team playing in college.

My son is in his fourth year on the varsity team. He has a private pitching coach that only occasionally attends his games. Part of what he teaches is pitch selection. He finally talked to high school coach to let him know that the pitcher new what he was doing and finally this year the pitch called is a suggestion and he is allowed to shake it off if he feels better about another pitch. So far it is working great.

If this has been the coach's style, it probably won't change.

If he has been successful with this style, it definitely won't change.

First thing your son should try is to pitch effectively even on poor pitch selection.

I have come across coaches on many teams who like to work the fielders rather than have a load of strike outs.

Worst case was a power pitcher having to throw predominantly changes to a young team in a tournament. Made no sense to anyone but the coach.

Have your son remember the basic rules for pitchers, stay ahead and keep the ball in the park.

Frustration with the coach happens, but he is the coach.

i absolutley hate this a coach did it for me one game and i gave up 7 runs in 7 innings, againt a decent high school.

In defense of coach calling the pitches, most do in HS. There are very few catchers who can call, and very few pitchers who can select the proper pitch. A pitcher should always be allowed to shake off the sign if he feles uncomfortable. Throwing curveball after curveball is unnecessary in HS.

I agree with Willie, pitchers need to concentrate on throwing whatever pitch is given to them (for strikes), staying ahead and keeping it in the park. And also, it is true, many coaches like to see their fielders work. The best part is, if coach calls, he has to take responsibility for mistakes.

Pitching 101,
Don't blame coach, chances are you would have given up 7 runs in 7 innings even if coach was not calling the game.

tiger paw, don't blame the coach?

so 15 fastballs in a row is not his fault? no one would throw 15 fastballs in a row, and i think i would have given up less runs by mixing it up.

15 fastballs in a row, I agree may be too many without mixing it up.
Then you've got to work on the fastball location I suppose.

The grass isn't always greener elsewhere...last season HS pitching coach called on average 50 pct curveballs. Fortunately he's no longer with the team.

Better to be lit up then cut up!

I'm one of those dreaded coaches. If we win. the kid overcame poor coaching. If we lose, I'm an idiot. EXPERTS!

CoachB25, I have heard other coaches say pretty much what you have said. That is why neither my son nor I feel we can approach our coach and have a mature and open discussion with him. We don't want to end up with him on the bench for the rest of the year, like the other player mentioned above.

I quite agree that coaches often come in for unfair criticism. But your comment leaves everyone with the impression that you have no intention of listening, that you think you cannot learn anything from a player or a parent -- not even about what is unique to that player in terms of abilities or shortcomings.

What I would suggest is that you could listen first and then tell people how you feel after you assess the information they imparted. If someone is just chewing you out, out of frustration, I don't think you should have to take that kind of stuff. But if someone is offering constructive input calmly and backed by sound reasoning, I can't think of anyone in any other job anywhere who would not be held accountable for ignoring perfectly good input that was available at no charge. In fact, in many other careers, people are fired for this sort of stubbornness.

My question was, how can you attempt to approach a coach in a constructive manner, so that the situation might actually improve? Your answer was, you can't, you're stuck with it, tough luck.

Well, thanks for the warning, anyway!

Midlo Dad;

quote:

I quite agree that coaches often come in for unfair criticism. But your comment leaves everyone with the impression that you have no intention of listening, that you think you cannot learn anything from a player or a parent

Player should approuch coach, let him know what he thinks. and let coach explain what he's thinking.
In no way should a Parent approuch the Coach.
Let your son mature as a young adult, to be able to handle his on Problems. the EH

With such a win-or-else attitude in athletic programs these days you can't really blame a baseball coach for wanting to call the pitches. After all, I wouldn't want my job security resting in the hands of a 17 year-old catcher.

However, if the coach is butchering the pitch calling then the pitcher and catcher should probably try to talk to the coach in private and suggest trying an alternative method for a game or two. If the catcher doesn't agree with the pitcher then the pitcher should let it go.

If the approach from the battery is right then the coach just might listen....

I see no problem with the coach calling pitches in high school ---- and really don’t see a problem with a college coach calling pitches. Pitchers can win and develop with a coach calling pitches and catchers can win and develop with coaches calling pitches. When a player is a member of a team he needs to understand the coach is in charge. My son pitched and caught in high school and pitched and caught in college. In HS his HS coach called all the pitches. As a pitcher in college, while he was allowed to wipe off the pitch he seldom did because he knew he would be criticized if he were wrong. He started calling the game as a junior catcher and the flow of the game improved but I doubt if the pitch selection impacted the W-L record.
Fungo

Our catcher calls the game. We have called the games in the past when we have had an inexperienced kid behind the plate. When we had a big lead or at least felt we had the game under controll we would allow the catcher to call the game to get experience. We teach our catchers what to look for in batter stance and posistion in the box, as well as how they react to certain pitches in certain locations. With an experienced kid behind the plate with the smarts we want him to call it. We do not like our pitchers to shake our catchers. But in certain situations with an experienced pitcher on the hill we dont have a problem with it. In my opinion the best person in posistion to call a game is a quality experienced catcher. The game flows so much better as well. No looking over to the dugout and waiting and then making sure that you got it right etc etc. The pitcher toes the rubber and looks right in gets the signal and goes to work. JMHO

Underclass games our pitchers and catchers work together to call the game. It is very seldom for the coach to call the pitches. In varsity games, our catchers also make the calls normally but the coach will call something every now and then.

Yesterday, our coach made one pitch selection and that was to just get the ball far outside of the zone. He didnt care what the pitch was, he just wanted it outside away from the hitter.

Let's expand this a little bit to the infielders.
Right handed batter.
Runner on first, no out.
Coach calls for a fast ball, just off the outside corner, belt high.
Second baseman signals to the shortstop who should cover second on a steal.

Who would you think covers second on the steal?

Midlo Dad, I typed out a long response but it was exceedingly sarcastic and so, it served no positive purpose.

My experience is that it doesn't make that much difference in most cases. The catchers do a better job than the coaches think they can and the coaches do a better job than the parents think they can.

I let my freshman catchers call the pitches during winter ball and although I made a few suggestions after the fact I found that they called pretty good games even if they were different than what I would have called. Some catchers were better than others and the kids let me know who moved the target around better. This was important for our pitchers since a couple of them had pretty flat fastballs.

You can run into problems when an inexperienced coach who never caught or pitched insists on calling the pitches, but even then good or poor execution of the pitches tends to outweigh the pitch calling and pitchers can in most cases shake off signs if necessary. Most coaches will listen if a pitcher goes to them and tells them that he really can't execute the pitch selection (too many curves, too many fastballs, etc.) but the parents or outside pitching coaches should never get involved unless there is a clear safety issue and they are willing to leave the program if necessary for the player's safety.

WillieBobo,
Unless the pitcher throws real smoke I'd still have the 2nd baseman cover. Hitters roll over and pull weak grounders on outside fastballs all the time. Also in HS a target on the outside doesn't result in a pitch on the outside all that often. Just the fact that the shortstop and 2nd baseman are communicating is a plus. Sometimes you can make things too complex and expecting HS players to adjust their coverage based on the catcher's target is a bit too much.

I occassinally called a pitch. I relayed it into the catcher and if the pitcher shaked im off and it wnt down again the pitcher knew it was from the bench. I stress occassionally.

Shortstop has the cover.

The location will either force the hitter to
1) Hit to the right side
2) Hit up the middle
3) Hit a weak pop up

Sometimes a pitcher will miss the spot, but most often a coach knows who can hit them and who can't.

It isn't complicated at all.

I've seen many, many rollers hit to the shortstop by rh hitters on outside pitches. If they go the other way with the outside pitch they are a bit more likely to drive the ball. If you are that worried about the hit and run and think the pitcher can hit spots then throw inside or just plain pitch out. Why give the hitter what he is looking for in that situation?

Go to a college game....

Every pitch
Every infield field position
Every outfield position
Every AB

Every thing during the four hour games are called by the coaching staff.

The Coach's call the game, it is the players responsiblity to make the play. I not saying I disagree or agree, it's just how it is.

But I will word this so some parents can understand....If you were paid $150,000+ to win, would you give the responsibilty of the game to an 18/19/20 year old?

Bullwinkle,
There are some very experienced college catchers out there who call a better game then the coaches.
Far and few between, but I do know at son's school if you are capable, you get the job. The pitcher is able to work faster and then both (pitcher and catcher) have to take responsibility for mistakes.
But I agree, most everything is controlled by the coaching staff.

A coach shouldnt call every pitch from the bench. Situational calls should be made, but when a coach calls every pitch it retards the growth of the pitcher and the catcher. They need to develope a feel for how to call the game. A pitcher should have the ability to shake off whenever he wants, who knows better about the confidence in making a certain pitch in a certain situation better then the guy throwing it?

The games take to long, and to an extent it shows a lack of trust in your players. As a coach, you will be amazed at what your players will do for you if you show them a little trust and belief. They also will not develope as well if they always wearing training wheels.

Any successful baseball program does not give credit to the players. The credit goes to the coach and his coaching style and staff.

The top collegiate or high school baseball programs over a period of time have one constant , the coach.

Players will learn humility in deference to the coach and his program if they wish to continue in that program.

If the coach calls the pitches, sets the defense, so be it.

For me the catcher and pitcher have a better feel of the game and I can trust them to make the right call

I even had a pitcher, HS senior call me the mound in the bottom of the ninth, 2 out and 2nd and third occupied winning run at the plate. The pitcher wanted to walk the upcoming batter even though the kid was "ofer" but a solid "ofer" with line drives into gloves. The pitcher just felt that the batter was overdue-- I allow him to walk the batter-- the next kid grounds to second and the game is over

BOY AM I SMART !!!LOL


As for the statement that all college coaches call all the pitches, plays etc that is totally erroneous--that is not how it is everywhere

Yesterday was a decent spring day so I went on a walk. Went by a practice. Was watching of course there was 5 coaches. They were going over bunt defenses. they had more hand signals and relay to the players and to be quite honest my head was spinning. Has the game changed or is it my imagination.

Rice U. won the College World Series a few years ago and the catcher
called virtually all the pitches. Collegiate Baseball Newspaper had an
article from the coach explaining why he believed this to be better for
his program.

Wonder if the U of Florida coaches were calling the pitches when SCarolina put 21 runs on the board Sunday?

For crying out loud, these are COLLEGE students that have played the
game forever-if the catchers and pitchers aren't smart enough to have a feel for what to throw by now then how the heck are they able to pass
a basic math class? It's called OVERCOACHING. If the coach see's something during the game that he detects a weakness in a hitter, by all means call a pitch but otherwise let them play.

The catcher knows what's working for the pitcher and the pitcher knows
what he feels comfortable with on any given day.

Calling pitches definitely disrupts the flow of the game and IMO is totally unnecessary. Don't take my word for it check with Coach Wayne
Graham-Rice University.

I know we had a long thread on this a couple of months back. There are definitely varying opinions. I would love to see young catchers learn to call a game and have the confidence to know when to call what pitch. In the high school game is is rare, not unheard of, just rare. The catcher must learn how to call the game. I have seen opponents catchers throwing down fingers without a clue to what was happening, usually with the results going in our favor. At the college level, it is up to the staff, what they feel they have to work with. Coaches, parents, players, who think it is easy to call a game and make a positive difference for the team have probably never called a game before. Those who think its unneccessary probably never caught or coached. The catcher has to be a real thinker, almost a second coach. Its a real challenge for kids 14-18, but I am sure there are some good ones out there. At the college level, there are some great looking catchers, but do they have it between the ears to get the job done? Thats up to the guy in charge.

Some people just like to complain or can't face the fact that their son may not be as good as they think. I have done it both ways and in both sit. had fans asking why I did nor did not call pitches. Calling pitches is like calling plays in football. Every single one is designed to score or get an out. If your sons executed perfectly everytime, we would score every play in football and get an out every pitch in baseball.

If you want to 'arm chair' quarterback, that is fine. That is half the fun of keeping up with sports, but don't assume because you played little league or coached some summer team that you are as qualified or as know as much about the team or what they need as your hs coach.

"Those who think its unneccessary probably never caught or coached."

Coachric-you make valid points but your assumption above is wrong.

First, I agree that MOST HS catchers don't have a clue about calling a game-one of the reasons is because very few coaches know how to coach catchers and
very little time is spent during practices with them.

Second, I'm talking college where players are recruited for their catching
ability and very few freshmen get to start or even catch a college game their
freshman year. They should be learning from the coaches and the veteran catchers their first year. If for some reason they do get the opportunity to
start their first year then SURELY by the 15th game of the season they should
be able to handle calling pitches on their own after learning what the coach
likes to call.

Third, catchers and pitchers together should have enough experience between them at the college level to get it right-if a catcher blanks out on one pitch the pitcher can certainly shake him off.

Lastly, I've coached, my son was a catcher, and I've played at the highest
levels and never had a coach call the pitches except for the reason I stated
in my previous post.

I agree with you that a catcher has to be a real thinker and it IS the toughest position to play and the most thankless, but college catchers should be able to call as good a game as their coaches.

If Graham from Rice can do it why can't all the rest?

What are the qualifications to get into Rice? I wish all of my players were smart enough to go to school there, much less play ball.

I'm with you, Moc.

If the catcher & pitcher can't get the job done together, 95% of the time it is because their coaches haven't taught them.

Nothing personal Moc1 as I know you've been around. Some others were leaving there opinion that a catcher at a lower level should know the pitcher better and would be just as good. In some cases maybe. In college I do have to agree with you as calling a game is learned, best by watching, listening and preparing. I still continue to see many coaches at both levels who are not confident enough to teach their catchers and give up control of pitch calling. Could be job security.

One other note as I read Texan's reply. I have had high school kids over the years, who were pitchers and catchers and they simply didn't hang around together. On many occassions, they didn't know each other even as battery mates, and they didn't care to. A coach has to see whether these players, when paired up, will learn each other, or just play on the same team.

Coachric-agree with both of your last posts-not many HS catchers are able to properly call a game. I certainly would like to see coaches spend more practice time with the catchers and actually teach them basic
fundamentals. I think it stems from them not actually knowing what to teach and therefore staying away from an area they aren't familiar with.
I believe Coach May on this site probably does it right and maybe a few others, but even now at the college level I've been able to see 3 DI schools up close in their fall and spring practices and only 1 IMO is actually teaching their guy how to "catch". One "highly rated" catcher
will never catch at the next level but will make it because of his bat.

Sorry to get off subject but when a young guy leaves HS and goes to college as a catcher the coaches should have enough faith in him AND
their coaching ability to allow him and the pitcher to call the game.

Not sure there’s really a right or wrong answer regarding coaches calling pitches. I can say in College we had catchers who were allowed to call the pitches and we had catchers where we felt we needed to call the pitches.

Even with those that called there own game, we would have signals to describe each hitter as he came to the plate. After all, we most often knew more about each hitter than our catcher did. We would give a quick set of signs that would tell our catcher what we thought was the best way to handle each hitter. We would go over the opposing lineup with the catchers before every game. Then our signs would simply remind the catcher of what we went over. If the hitter showed something in that game that would change our mind, we would give a different sequence to the catcher. Our catchers were taught how to pitch to various strengths and weaknesses of a hitter taking into account the strengths and weaknesses of our pitcher. We did not need to call each and every pitch with those catchers who understood. We might use a verbal once in awhile to refresh the catchers memory. Those that did not understand, we might call each pitch, but then again they wouldn’t catch as often. Our pitchers always had the ability to change the call. We really wanted them to be in charge of what they wanted to throw. They would study the opposing lineup and see the same signs before each hitter went to the plate. We just didn’t want a pitcher to have to throw a pitch he didn’t feel like throwing. For example if he didn’t feel like he had command or feel of his breaking ball at the time, and we want a breaking ball for a strike.

The main idea, no matter who is calling the pitches is to gain any possible advantage on the hitter. All catchers are not equal… Physically or mentally. Some handle the game as well or even better than the coach and some don’t. One thing that has to take place is catcher, pitcher and coach should be on the same page if they’re all qualified. Funny thing when that happens… 90% of the time they’re all wanting the same pitch.

That’s the college level. Now for High School… Some 20,000 or more varsity catchers will play this year in the USA. Most high schools can’t go out and recruit an experienced, intelligent, high quality catcher. For someone to think all these catchers are capable or understand how to pitch to hitters doesn’t make sense. Many have all they can do just to catch the ball, let alone call pitches. Some don’t even want to be responsible for calling pitches. Then there are others who are very experienced and have a great feel for how to handle the game. That is why (IMO) there is no right or wrong answer to the question of whether coaches should call pitches.

This year my son calls the pitches. He has been calling games since he was a 13yo. This year the pitching coach stood behind the mound during intersquads and told the pitcher what to throw and also had the catchers call the pitch they thought they should throw. My son called the same thing as the coach 95% of the time so he earned it. Last week he called a no hitter and a one hitter in back to back games.