HS Coach Calling Pitches

quote:

Originally posted by DeeMack:
A coach shouldnt call every pitch from the bench. Situational calls should be made, but when a coach calls every pitch it retards the growth of the pitcher and the catcher. They need to develope a feel for how to call the game. A pitcher should have the ability to shake off whenever he wants, who knows better about the confidence in making a certain pitch in a certain situation better then the guy throwing it?

The games take to long, and to an extent it shows a lack of trust in your players. As a coach, you will be amazed at what your players will do for you if you show them a little trust and belief. They also will not develope as well if they always wearing training wheels.

The above post makes more sense than all the other posts I have read. For about 80 years pitches were called by the catchers and pitchers in high school and college. Coaches would go over the other teams hitters before the game and then let the pitcher and catcher go to work. About 20 years ago the coaches decided that they were the only ones smart enough to call a game. The result is that the games today are about an hour longer than the games 25 years ago and I don't see any less walks, hits or errors going on in high school or college, but I see a lot of coaches who want to win the game themselves instead of letting the players win the game.

I don't have a problem with who calls the game.
I have a problem with what pitch they call!

But thats as a Father and a Fan.

If a batter is not catching up to the fast ball, Why throw a change-up?
If he fouls off your fast ball, why throw another fastball on next pitch?
If you have an 0-2 count why throw anything near the plate?

You must be able to throw High inside, Then down and Away?

JMHO the EH

My main disagreement with most of these posts is that calling in pitches slows down the game...when we call pitches, it inovlves the catcher looking over for about 3 seconds and then he flashes the signal. I'd bet the games where we call pitches are about 4 minutes longer than the games where we dont....

I have a Senior catcher who has been catching our Senior pitcher for 3 years. When we opened up Monday, I let them call their own. When we brought in our Junior pitcher who our Catcher had only caught a few times, we called the pitches.

Regardless, we talk to our P's and C's before every game, and between each inning about the batters they faced and the batters they will face.

The fact is, our kids are 17 years old....don't you think if a Coach knows his pitchers and pays attention, that he should have a good grip on what they can and can't do? And shouldn't an experienced coach have a better idea of what to throw to a hitter than a young man who's been playing ball for less years than that coach has been coaching?

Why don't we let QB's call their own plays? Why do basketball coaches set up plays? Are you prepared to let your players call their own offensive signals? Their own bunts? Steals? Hit and runs? Why not?

Im a pitcher on varsity and i think the coaches calling pitches is rediculous. The cathers and pitchers should get a feel for it and be able to do it so when they get to college they are able to. Also being a pitcher myself i hate it i know what i can throw and what i have control over that day and how my arm feels not the coach. So they should give us a chance and trust us to call our own games!

Amen young man.

TCB1, with all due respect you may be a bit to controlling...QB's audible into thier own plays all the time, basketball only calls offensive sets situationally (end of games, or following a TO), and you should let someone bunt for a hit on thier own if thats part of thier game. And what is wrong with swiping a bag on your own? I have watched coaches call pitches for years now, and for the most part the kids would be way better off calling thier own game. I even watch these same coaches have a signal for every pitch on offense. What are the benefits for the players to have someone tell them every single pitch to throw...what are they learning, and how are they developing? Let them make a few mistakes and they will listen to you for corrections. Teach them how to set up a hitter instead of doing it for them.

It starts in Little League with Dads calling the pitches and goes to Pony, Babe Ruth, Legion and High School. In College it gets even worse. Coaches call every pitch and then give 50 signs in the 3rd base coaching box that takes up more time.
I never had a coach call a pitch for me in my life and I see about 200 games a year every year now and have yet to see a game where I thought the coach won the game with his pitch calling, but see many games where the coach has lost games with his pitch calling.

17 year old kids are capable of going to war and fighting for their country, and they are also capable of calling pitches in a high school ballgame.

I have seen well known Pac 10 coaches giving signs from the 3rd base coaching box to a hitter when there are two out, nobody on and the count is 0-2 on the hitter.What I see in high school is much of the same.

The moment a kid goes into pro ball at 17, he starts calling his own game and it takes about a year or two to become good at it because they have had coaches calling everything since they were in tee ball and most of them have not learned very much because of it.

The majority of our varsity players have the greenlight to steal unless otherwise told. Our hitters are told they can bunt whenever they want to; just to be smart about it. A Hit and Run can happen without anybody calling anything. I think the comparison there doesn't fit too well.

I feel the pitcher and catcher should make the majority of the pitch selection.

When is the coach going to start telling the hitter when to swing, how hard to do so, and where to hit the ball? When you figure out how to do that, we might as well as put away the equipment, and find a new hobby.

Definitely a pet peeve of mine is watching 3B coach giving 30 seconds worth of signs. Or giving any sign in obvious no sign situations. It should never take a 3B coach more than 5 second to give signs and end sequence. Anything else just looks unprofessional and unnecessary.

quote:

When is the coach going to start telling the hitter when to swing, how hard to do so, and where to hit the ball?

Not to be a smart azz, but we actually did have a sign for swing and hitters were even told where to swing in these isolated cases. The sign was simply circling the hand and it meant “swing for sure”. It always took place in the following situation only.

Close game late… Winning or sometimes tying run in scoring position, 3-0 count with one of our best hitters at the plate with a not as good hitter on deck. Our hitters were taught to swing in their wheel house no matter where the pitch was. If the pitch was in their wheel house, hit it… If the 3-0 pitch is in the wheel house, the odds are good, being that is the only place the hitter is focusing on. If the pitch is anywhere else… swing and miss. The thinking involved was… we would rather have one of our best hitters with a 3-1 count in this situation, than the next guy hitting with a 0-0 count.

There are a few other situations it could be used as a best percentage play. Here’s a possible example, though I don’t ever remember using it in this situation.
Say you’re behind by 4 runs with 2 outs and the bases loaded. Your top hitter and by far your best home run hitter has a 3-0 count on him. Your next hitter is a substitute and one of the worst hitters you have. Question… Would you rather your power hitter walked and now you’re 3 runs behind with a weak hitter at the plate with a 0-0 count and 2 outs. Or would you rather give your power hitter a shot at hitting a grand slam on 3-0 count and a pitch in his wheel house or having him still at the plate with a 3-1 count?

Not very often, but “swing for sure” is a sign we would use on rare occasions.

bbscout---

Nice to see you...you've been missed.

It IS good to see bbscout back! I'm sure it's a busy time of year for him. One of my favorites that's for sure!
Fungo

Son does not feel comfortable with coach calling pitches as he feels it prevents him from getting into any rhythm. It's rather ironic that when pitcher is breezing along in a game the opposing manager is usually telling his boys to step out of the box in an effort to disrupt the pitchers rhythm.

Doug,
Welcome back! I have missed your posts!

Sometimes I think son struggles due to the fact that they have to call their own game. My understanding is that it is a learning process, for both catcher and pitcher and am glad that he is given the opportunity to do so. I do know that son says he is more aware of his mistakes, and has to take personal responsibility for when he makes them. They are also told to work quickly, the pace of the game can determine outcome, you can't do that with coach calling pitches.
No offense to anyone. There are some coaches with the attitude, my way or the highway. That just gives a clue to their need to be in control most of the time. If they are winning coaches, they won't give it up. I can't see a parent approaching, but sad when a player wants to take responsibility and they are not allowed to do so.
My opinion, everyone likes a win, but I would rather see a player is trying to figure out what to do by what he was taught, than not taught anything.

MOC,
Good posts. I too believe that in the top level programs most pitchers and catchers are smart enough to call the game, but few are given the chance.

I agree with you NYDad - the coach in HS called all the pitches, wouldn't let anyone shake them off or discuss them, and my son said that it destroyed his rhythm. He had a terrible time as a pitcher in HS, but in the summer with legion, he and the catcher (same catcher as HS) called their own pitches and he did extremely well. Best record on the team. My son said it was all about rhythm and knowing what pitches he threw best. The HS coach did not appear to know his pitchers or his catcher.
I'm all for letting them call their own pitches with input from the coach, obviously.

Giving up HRs is the pitchers fault not the coaches. It's very simple, you keep the ball waist high with any pitch (change, breaking, fast), balls start sailing. If the pitcher keeps the pitch low, ground balls.

Three things can happen:
1. get your teaching degree and you go be the varsity coach
2. Take your toys some where else
3. have your own "select" league during the spring.

We call pitches for our pitchers, last night kid would not go with the pitches we called and threw 38 pitches and gave up 2 runs in the 1st inning. After that he started throwing what we called, no more runs and threw about 12 pitches per inning.

Has anyone talked with a college coach/player what happens if you talk to the coach about playing time or his philosophy? You get canned.

I think allot has to do with the catchers and pitchers mentality for the game. On the other hand I have met allot of professional players that new the game in and out but were not good coaches. These were ex pro players. Most of the high school coaches were never pro players but local college. Nobody has said that some of the pitchers in high school these days have more experience than their pitching coaches. I'm talking with the level of travel ball that wasn't around 10 years ago. You have some of the pitchers playing against some of the best hitters in the country every summer, calling their own games and getting wins. Then the following spring go back to coach calling pitches and struggling. You have to look at this both ways. 5 off speed pitches in a row? Seen it first hand and shook my head. Lucky for me my son shakes this off as a high school experience and works real hard on his locations and ball placement and is looking foward to the summer.

There is a reason FANS sit outside the fence and the seats do not face them. It is about what goes on inside the lines. Most of you are as bad as the coaches you rundown. Your way is the right way. How many of you have actually sat down and talked to your son's coaches and learned what they do and why? Then support him and his effort to make your son a better player and young man? I have had very few intel. baseball conversations outside of our clubhouse.

I generally do not have problems with parents. I have only had one recently. This parent was fighting mad when he came to the field. He was not even involved enough to know who the coach was but wanted to fight until he got down on the field and noticed he was the smallest guy out there by 50lbs (including players). I asked him what he was mad about and what he wanted me to do about it.....he could not answer either question. This is why most coaches do not like/want to talk to parents. Most that come up are griping and complaining and do not know enough about the program to carry on a conversation. That is why I asked if you have tried to learn what and why the coach does what he does.

Here is an example of fans complaining about a coach's call. We picked to first 8 consecutive times without a pitch to the plate. Fans were griping to pitch the ball. We picked the runner off of first on the 8th try. There is a method to our perceived madness.

Now more spec. about calling pitches. Compare it to learning to ride a bike. You do not throw your 3yo on an adult size bike and say get after it. Same with learning to call pitches. I call most of them. Then, as they learn what to do, I call fewer and fewer as both the battery and I feel confident with what they are doing. Some catchers progress faster than others. Some never get to call their own game.

After reading all of these responses, I don't wonder why I continue to see veteran coaches getting out.

I'd like to recommend an old baseball movie starring Joe E. Brown for some posters that want to blame the coach for longer games, son's ineffectiveness, lack of rhythm, poor pitch selection, ... however, I just don't think you'd get it.

First off if you are a coach and on this web site giving information to kids and parents alike then you are way ahead of the majority and I would say to you that I would want you to coach my son, I can understand all of yall's frustration with hearing about coaching problems and bickering and so forth...But one thing you should consider is that there are always problems and alot of them are with parents who really dont know the game and just think son should be playing...Well I feel for you with those posts, people have to learn that baseball teaches a lesson in life, it ain't fair...However there are some cases out there whether you want to believe it or not that the parents have a right to _itch!!!!! Just try to keep an open mind as a coach and take every situation that someone talks about as an individual case and then put it where you think it deserves to be put...I tend to think that coaches think none of there ranks can do any wrong! That is not the case, believe me I know..

quote:

Originally posted by 543DP:
Giving up HRs is the pitchers fault not the coaches. It's very simple, you keep the ball waist high with any pitch (change, breaking, fast), balls start sailing. If the pitcher keeps the pitch low, ground balls.

Three things can happen:
1. get your teaching degree and you go be the varsity coach
2. Take your toys some where else
3. have your own "select" league during the spring.

We call pitches for our pitchers, last night kid would not go with the pitches we called and threw 38 pitches and gave up 2 runs in the 1st inning. After that he started throwing what we called, no more runs and threw about 12 pitches per inning.

Has anyone talked with a college coach/player what happens if you talk to the coach about playing time or his philosophy? You get canned.

Wow, this was not a very good post. Read your last paragraph and tell me if this is fact, or your ignorant philosophy.

When a player asks me about playing time I have respect for him, he doesnt "get canned." If you do this to your players then shame on you, and you shouldnt be shaping young men.

amen dee but I know it would happen on sons team..

Some good arguments on both sides here. . .

I think one thing to keep in mind though is that not all coaches are as good/baseball-savvy as the coaches who post here (seriously coaches - some of you guys clearly know what you're doing and do it well. Don't be afraid to admit there are coaches out there who aren't qualified to carry your line-up card out to the plate), and not all HS pitchers are stupid little no-nothings that have to be directed every step of the way.

I don't think Parents even enter into the conversation here. It's not their business, either way.

dad10, I don't disagree.

Dad10 you make very good points. The fact is whatever gives us the best chance at winning that is what we try to do. If our catcher is capable we want him to do it. If he is not we will. We dont want our pitchers to have to worry about it. We want them to pitch and focus on what they need to do to be sucessfull. If the pitcher is experienced we dont have any problem with him shaking and getting what he wants. If he is not experienced then we expect him to throw what the catcher calls period.

Coach May, would you consider relocating?

CoachB25....what is the movie?

My son prefers calling his game from the mound. One of the reasons he attends the school he does was the coach, who was a pitcher, does not call pitches. Work quick, throw strikes and call your own game, is all he asks.

quote:

Originally posted by d8:
CoachB25....what is the movie?

Alibi Ike starring Joe E. Brown

thanks

quote:

DeeMack

quote:

Wow, this was not a very good post. Read your last paragraph and tell me if this is fact, or your ignorant philosophy.

Wasn't specific enough, players can talk with a college coach, yes. That is their responsibility and part of being a man. But parents going to a college coach is a big no, no. I've had 2 college coaches tell me that.

How did this get to parents talking to coaches
about playing time?

bbscout,
Hang in there. Only a couple months to go and it will all be based on merit.

Moc, do you think parents should take the rotational or linear approach to talking with the coach about playing time?

Texan, would the rotational parent beat around the bush before getting to the point whereas, the linear parent get straight to the point?

Texan-Yes.