HS Pitchers just pitching

You should not have to ask the coach anything. That decision is left to him. Players are used as they are most needed. JMO.

A a freshman, mine played multiple positions and hit. As a sophmore and junior he was pitcher only. As a senior he was starter who played first when not pitching and DH.

Since it was obvious his future was in pitching, we preferred less use of the arm in HS.

Agree with TPM - it's up to the coach - only time you think about getting involved is when it is truly detrimental to your boy [lack of playing time not necessarily defined as detrimental, BTW].

My guy went the other way - Started every third game as a soph and junior, played 2B/3B when not pitching. As a senior, he started every other game, so after the first week or 2 coach just sat him when not starting, to save the arm. Even though he led the team in hitting as a soph, and was close as a junior, felt he wasn't hitting often [every other game] enough as a senior to stay sharp, so he just told coach to DH for him when he pitched. Made things easier on Coach and allowed Junior to concentrate on pitching.

AS long as your guys isn't throwing 100 pitches, then expected to play SS the next day, don't sweat it. As long as he pitches some and plays some, especially as a frosh, all that matters is that he doesn't get OVER used.

quote:

Originally posted by bb1:
Do most HS coaches use their pitchers exclusively as pitchers and nowhere else on the field?
Its pretty difficult for anyone to say what MOST HS coaches would do about anything. So much depends on the coach and his philosophy, the team situation, and each individual player. I’ve seen just about everything go on at one time or another.


Aren't many times the pitchers also one of the best players on the team?
I’m sure that many times a P may also be one of the best position players and hitters on the team, but again, a lot depends on the situation and the coach’s philosophy.

Most high level PCs I’ve talked with about it would much rather the really good Ps aren’t out there jackin’ around, simply because they’re far too valuable as a P and don’t want to risk them getting hurt.

There’s also a school of thought that I happen to agree with that says, truly giving pitching all the time and attention it needs, leaves little time for all the other things position players, hitters, and runners have to do, and vice versa. So, the end result is, no matter what the player tries to do, he won’t be doing it as well as if he concentrated on it. Sort of like a Jack of all trades, master of none thing.

The thing about HS ball is, its not that unusual to see players swapping all over the place, but still being as good as or better than other players, even though they may not be as good as they could be. Think of it as there are some players who can play at 80% of capacity and still be better than others playing at 100%.

What do you ask a coach who wants a freshman to pitch JV with regards to playing time? If you’re smart, you won’t ask a coach anything about playing time! Either you want to pitch or you don’t. Most players I’ve known that truly like pitching, would give up PT on a Fr team to pitch on the JV team. Those who haven’t committed one way or the other should very likely stay back because they’ll soon lose their enthusiasm, and believe me, that will show and it won’t be appreciated. JMHO

Can a kid turn down an opportunity to pitch there for more playing time at lets say freshman? A player can do anything, but sometimes its best he finds out what the coach’s long term plans for him are before he opens his mouth and inserts his foot.

There are a ton of things to consider, one of which is that normally the JVHC isn’t the same as the VHC. If the program is worth the powder to blow it to the devil, all moves like that which are promotions would go through the VHC, so mebbe that’s the guy you ought to talk to about what he sees as your place on the team.

Can a kid pitch JV and play outfield on freshman? As far as I know, players can be moved up/down/in/out, until the league games start. Where we’re at, everything ok until then, but once a league game is played at he higher level, the player has to stay at that level or higher from then on. You gotta check with your state assn and your league.

But having said that, unless you’re the stud of studs, I think its pretty unlikely a coach is gonna allow flipping back and forth. It’s a pain for everybody! The other thing is, I don’t know how your school does it, but out here, where there are schools with Fr, JV, and V programs, the JV and V squads travel together to an opponent’s school, but the Fr teams play at the other school.

The reason for that is, no schools that I know of have 3 well kept fields. But what happens is, the coach has to post a roster for each player traveling using school transportation, and if something would happen and the kid was on the wrong roster, heads would roll, Also, when games here are over, parents are allowed to sing out their kids, relieving the school of the responsibility. If the player is on the wrong roster and the parent just takes him home, all Hell can break loose.

In short, don’t even ask about it! Either pitch for the JV team, and if you want to also play a position and hit, bust your hump and beat the other players out, or stay back with the Fr and get all the pitching an PT you can handle. My personal advice is, it looks like you aren’t a stud, so just stay back and play with your buds! If you’re any good, at he end of the year you’ll be up playing with the JV anyway.

Good Luck!

I'm sorry everyone misunderstood. I was not talking about myself speaking to the coach. I meant what should a kid say. Short is out because he's a lefty. I will never ask the coach anything. It is up to my son to do that. What can he say? He doesn't just want to pitch not as a freshman. Quite honestly I don't think at 15 you should put any kid in one position too many things that will still change. Height, weight, speed, arm strength to name just a few.
Who knows he may not be the best at another position but if he is than just like pitching he deserves to play.
I think that he would rather give up pitching than play every fourth day.

quote:

Originally posted by bb1:
I was not talking about myself speaking to the coach. I meant what should a kid say. Short is out because he's a lefty. I will never ask the coach anything. It is up to my son to do that. What can he say? He doesn't just want to pitch not as a freshman. Quite honestly I don't think at 15 you should put any kid in one position too many things that will still change. Height, weight, speed, arm strength to name just a few.

Who knows he may not be the best at another position but if he is than just like pitching he deserves to play.

I think that he would rather give up pitching than play every fourth day.

I think you’ve got a lot to learn about HS baseball. The best players at certain position don’t always play there! My son was by far and above the best 3B and best hitter on his Fr and JV team, but he was also by far the best P.

As a Fr it was great. He got to pitch all he wanted, and when he wasn’t pitching he was playing 3rd and hitting. Halfway through the season, he got promoted to the JV, but the reason they wanted him up there was because their pitching stunk on ice, not because they wanted another bat.

At first he played 3rd when he wasn’t pitching, but pretty soon, it became apparent that the kid playing 3rd when my kid was pitching, was really suffering, especially in the field. So, my boy was asked if he would play a different position if he wanted to hit. He said he’d play the OF, but soon found out that he didn’t like it.

He didn’t need a lot of work at 3B to stay sharp, but he’d never played the OF much, so he really had to work at it to try to be as good out there as he was at 3rd. Pretty soon it started affecting his pitching, then his hitting, and finally he just told the coach he’d rather be a PO, and that was it.

But being a PO if you aren’t the #1 or # 2 can really be a drag, and most players don’t like playing only once every 3-4 games. It gets boring! It really sounds to me like you and the boy really need to have a man2man about the whole thing. You’re guessing about what he wants to do, and you may be completely wrong. If you’re completely right, he shouldn’t worry about the JV at all.

But, whatever he does, he darn sure better have a little sit sown with his coach and the VHC.

That's it exactly and also why we're asking. We don't know anything about HS baseball and want to learn and not make any mistakes by putting a foot in mouth.
I'm sure he would just choose pitching if it came down to that as it very well might but should he have to? When I was in HS admittedly a very long time ago the best players played. Usually 9 or 10 of them and that was it. A lot has changed since then and I want to learn to be able to advise him with the best advice from the people who know.

#1 a good coach should be smart enough to groom players for the future. Whether that be bringing them up to varsity to pitch, and JV to get swings, or whatever the situation calls for.

At the same time HS coaches will play their best players and any player who deserves to be on the field but feels he can choose where he plays is not a team player and as a coach I could do without him. The only exception is if the coach is throwing a young kid under the bus because he needs to eat innings at some point. That does no one any good.

As a soph in HS my son was one of the top 2-3 players in his class but was asked to pitch on varsity and not play jv. As a result he did not get varsity swings and was on the mound only. What he did learn was how to be a varsity player and that carried through for the next 2 years as far as being a leader . Sometimes it's not what happens in the scorebook that detrermines a successful year. He did however get all of his position and hitting reps in practice.

Giving 100% means giving 100%, 100% of the time, not only when and where you want.

Or, maybe I don't understand this situation

Agreed. The coach chooses where and when a player plays, it has to be that way and should be that way. No question about it. That being said shouldn't just like the best pitchers pitch, the best position players play? His future if any is probably pitching but how do you know if that is all you are allowed to do? I was just reading about a young man in the minors who saved 25 games last year and was converted from centerfield last year to pitching.


100% is not good enough. Should be 110% and more.

quote:

His future if any is probably pitching but how do you know if that is all you are allowed to do?

If he is "worthy" to play both ways a coach will see that. As parents we wear rose colored glasses and we do not attend practices where the team competition actually occurs. Our opinions are based on biased information.

Mine dual positioned for two years and is now a pitcher only. Arm care is extemely difficult for dual position players in high school. There bodies are changing and throwing tolerance is very hard to measure. Coaches are doing you a favor. If a position is that important you can pick it up again in select ball. College coaches want healthy players.

quote:

Originally posted by bb1:
Agreed. The coach chooses where and when a player plays, it has to be that way and should be that way. No question about it. That being said shouldn't just like the best pitchers pitch, the best position players play? His future if any is probably pitching but how do you know if that is all you are allowed to do? I was just reading about a young man in the minors who saved 25 games last year and was converted from centerfield last year to pitching.

100% is not good enough. Should be 110% and more.

You’re simply stuck in the same conundrum most HS players and parents are. You want your son to play, period. Then, if you really believe he’s a better player than other players out there, you feel even stronger about him playing.

I’m certainly no apologist for HS coaches, but what a lot of folks don’t understand is, coaches have a whole bunch of other players out there to worry about than just their kid. It may well be that the coach and the player or parent don’t see things through the same glasses. It may be that the coach has much greater concerns with holes on the team, than which kid between 2 who can both pretty much get the job done.

For sure I can tell you that unless you go to every practice and are aware of every player’s academics and actions as a student, you can’t really know what’s goin’ on out there.

I was lucky in that I got to attend not just every game, but every single practice for my son’s HS team until he got his driver’s license as a JR. I got to see how some kids screwed off, dogged it, were continually just a little late, or played grab-***, and also when kids were hustling and doing more than everyone else.

Most parents don’t see that, and if they talk to the coach, most won’t tell them anything other than about their kid, and it makes it very difficult to really know what’s goin’ on. All that stuff goes into earning PT, not just baseball skills!

The thing is, there’s no way every player on the team is gonna get every opportunity he deserves! Some will get more than they deserve, and some will get gypped out of some, but that’s how it goes.

Again, my advice is to tell the boy to just play on the Fr team and have a ball! If he’s good enough, he’s gonna get moved up anyway, so let him have some fun while he stall can.

I have a little different perspective about the 100% thing. I don’t think its possible to go balls to the wall every second a player is near or on the field. My personal belief is that players need to be as consistent as possible at as high a playing level as possible, and that’s it.

How stupid would it be for a P to throw every ball at 100%, every runner to run as hard as he could every time he got on base, of for a fielder to dive into walls or even the grass on every ball that came close to them? And how stupid would it be to do that at practices?

quote:

Originally posted by TDad:
Mine dual positioned for two years and is now a pitcher only. Arm care is extemely difficult for dual position players in high school.
Mine also 2-wayed but never did a lot of throwing the day before or the day after he pitched, besides he played 1B.

There bodies are changing and throwing tolerance is very hard to measure.
Sons HS coach kept the arm "rested but fresh" if you can say that in the same sentence

Coaches are doing you a favor. If a position is that important you can pick it up again in select ball. College coaches want healthy players.
In hindsite that is easy to say. We are from a part of the country where depth is usually not a word in the vocabulary and every player who has a passion wants to play as much as possible. I would be surprised if the pitchers who pitch only in HS, do not have teammates who should be playing ahead of them anyway. I have a hard time thinking that a HS coach keeps one of the best players on the bench for the sake of saving his pitching arm for college. From what I've seen and read most of the college pitchers were 2-way players in HS.

All comments are greatly appreciated. We do know most of the players trying out and where and who they played for last year. Not to many surprises, unfortunately. I do not know the older kids and coaches should and do have allegiances to them. For the sake of competition it will be better if he makes a higher team but if not that's okay too. As long as he keeps having fun and working to get better I can't complain.
Being a lefty is a big plus not to many of them around.
I guess I just want to see him enjoy his HS team because these could be the last 4 years. You just never know.
I think what will happen is he'll get playing time both as a pitcher and fielder for a year or two and then probably depending on progress concentrate just on ptiching. I just wanted to be sure what he should do if the pitching only thing arises.
Can't really play on a select team anymore because the school plays legion in the summer and it is understood that you must do that with them.
Grades are a whole different issue, through the grapevine we were told one kid failed 3 classes now I believe the rules are he can't play but he is practicing. My kids first semester 4.0, he knows how important grades are to colleges.

At our HS (a pretty good one), if a pitcher can hit, he hits. We don't have the luxary of great depth, that you can sit good hitters. I think that is true of most of the teams in this area.

When my son was a freshman and soph, he was highly regarded as a pitcher. He was also a very good hitter. He took up OF when we nixed the idea of him pitching and catching. Now he is not so highly regarded as a pitcher, but is probably the best hitter on the team now as a sr. He still will pitch, but any future is as a everyday guy.

What I am saying is. if you have a choice, don't put all of your eggs in one basket.

Wow , talk about DeJa-Vu!

The son is a very young just turned 14 yr old Freshman. As an eighth grader he played on the Freshman TravelBall Team.( they are allowed to do this in my area). He was pretty much the #1 pitcher but had a solid bat and speed to boot. LEd the team with hits , Sb's, and K's when pitching. IT was apparent to me that they didn't know exactly what to do with him. Should he pitch? Should he be a leadoff hitter? Should he play CF? Anyhow he wound up winning the Best Hitter Award as an eighth grader. That pretty much set the stage that he was going to be an everyday player and not pitch much. He loves to pitch but he also knows he is a great baserunner and hitter.

Fast Forward to this year (9th grade) and he currently went from 3B to 2b and now to CF. Sometimes it takes a while for coaches to figure out what the best interests are for the team. I knew this and I didn't think that he was doing bad at one position. HE actually played quite well at 2nd base but they were wasting his arm there. When he got to CF he thrived and he really enjoys throwing guys out from out there.

He knows his future is CF and leadoff and he is working his tail off to make sure he doesn't lose it. He misses the mound but we throws from the mound at least once a week because he may be needed in the future there. Normally pitchers are just that, they pitch only and he knew if he went this route he wouldn't be helping the team defensively and offensively every day.

Whatever happens with your situation good luck and always try to be positive on what is best for the team. I am actually happy he isn't pitching because it will save his arm.

quote:

Originally posted by TDad:
Mine dual positioned for two years and is now a pitcher only. Arm care is extemely difficult for dual position players in high school. There bodies are changing and throwing tolerance is very hard to measure. Coaches are doing you a favor. If a position is that important you can pick it up again in select ball. College coaches want healthy players.

I'd echo that. Mine played both ways until his senior year in HS. He was recruited as a pitcher only. He elected (with the blessing of his coach) to focus just on pitching his senior year. He played sparingly in the field.

A lot of good advice above, esp. the admonition that the coaches make the decisions and you have to live with them for good or for ill.

But I think there is room to ask a question if you do it politely and deferentially, and if you're careful not to sound like a whiner. Also the person doing the asking needs to be the player and not the parent, no matter how young the boy is. (Though the parent might want to go over the discussion in advance with the boy to help him avoid misspeaking and getting into hot water.)

I would suggest this:

1. Wait and see how they actually use your son. You might be surprised. He might end up doing more on the JV squad than you expect.

2. If he is only pitching on JV, and they are using him only once every three games, I don't think it is wrong to ask the coaches if they would mind "sending him down" between outings so he can hit and play in the field.

This lets them know that you still hope to compete in later years for AB's and time in the field. But it is not a challenge to the coach's decisions in running the JV team. To the contrary, it presupposes that you understand you are not going to play the field or hit on JV, so you are asking to step back to a level where that might occur.

If you go to the coach complaining that you aren't playing as much as you think you are entitled to, you are cruisin' for a bruisin' as my dad used to say. But to me there's a difference between that (bad news) and asking to go down a level so you can play (perfectly acceptable). I don't see how a coach could be upset with someone who is willing to be self-effacing in order to get a chance to play the game.

3. If your son is being used irregularly on JV, i.e. as a relief pitcher whose outings come as needed without advance warning or the opportunity to go down to frosh level on a planned basis, then you'll need to look for summer and fall opportunities if you want to develop the other facets of his game, and live with the situation on the school team. In time, your son will either make the cut as a position player/hitter, or he won't. You can't force the issue now, but you don't have to give up on it now, either.

On a second subject from above, I'm a bit surprised at those who talk about pitchers who are great hitters not getting to play when not pitching in order to help them develop. You see that at the college level, of course, but around our neck of the woods that is just not done at the HS level. You might DH the boy to save his arm or some such, but we play to win, and if you can hit, you're going to be in the lineup somewhere!

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
On a second subject from above, I'm a bit surprised at those who talk about pitchers who are great hitters not getting to play when not pitching in order to help them develop. You see that at the college level, of course, but around our neck of the woods that is just not done at the HS level. You might DH the boy to save his arm or some such, but we play to win, and if you can hit, you're going to be in the lineup somewhere!

I don’t know that a P who’s a GREAT hitter, i.e. much better hitter and at least an equal fielder than all the other position players who play the same position, other than pitching, he does. That’s more likely to happen in HS because its seldom that a team has great hitting up and down the lineup.

But its still MHO that any hitter/pitcher would improve either one if that’s all he did.

A lot of opinions to be found here. Here is what we do.

• If your son is our #1, he probably isn't going to play a position. If he is good with the bat, he'll get an opportunity to win the DH spot.
• If your son plays a position and isn't our #1. He will still not play a position on the day after he pitches if he gets close to 45 pitches. He will play a "sunday catch."
• If your son is in our rotation and is a spot starter or relief, he will still be on a strict pitch count.
• All pitchers regardless of position that they play will throw a bullpen everyday except the day after they pitch. We have two different types of pens. One is a full pen and the other is a "half-pen."
• Finally, all Pitcher will do PFP and so, we have to watch their arms and monitor their long toss programs.

It isn't as easy as everythinks it is to play a kid in a position and as a pitcher while at the same time worrying about their arms. MOST COACHES I KNOW TRY TO ERROR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION. In our program, we have a trainer and he also factors into what our kids throw. JMHO!

bb1 - Listen closely to the advice of Tiger Paw Mom and TDad. I know it's hard to see the big picture now, but be careful what you wish for. You need to protect young arms. Be quiet and see what happens. Our son is also a LHP, who was good enough to play on JV's as a Frosh, and now is the ace of the Varsity. They also made him "just a pitcher" who got a few at bats. Very maddening at the time, but a great decision as he got closer to graduation and college. The solution is to find a summer team where your player can play multiple positions if it bugs you or you think he really has a future at first base or OF. You are right to think that things change, and that players who play multiple positions are most valuable, BUT, beware of arm care problems.

Only YOU know your location,HS size,program,etc. I can't give any input for the USA.Listen to RZ1 & Midlo,thats the way it is in my town.Good luck to your son and ya'll have some fun this year!

Today I spoke to his 2 coaches from last year and got what I think is good advice. First please understand that I WILL NOT say anything to a coach that is not my place. It is up to my son to ask.
Advice was just let it play out and once the coaches see the ability they will keep him in the line-up. He's my kid and I won't brag but sufice it to say he can play and that's all I'll say about that.
He can't play on a good summer team because if he doesn't play with the school in the summer there will be issues. I do believe that the best player plays and just because he also pitches doesn't mean he loses his position in the field.
Coach 25 Not playing a position because he's number 1. I understand your reasoning but it's not easy to agree to at his age. Maybe as a junior or senior.
I understand you are trying to protect the kids arm and his future and it makes sense to error on the side of caution.
You sound like someone who can be trusted with my son. I'm not sure where he is that is as true. The kids have been told that if they can't pitch 7 innings they don't want them. What about pitch counts? What are the strict pitch counts you adhere to?
3up-3down I'm sorry location can not be given out for fear of the wrong person reading posts. That is another issue.

quote:

Originally posted by bb
Advice was just let it play out and once the coaches see the ability they will keep him in the line-up.

I think that was the general consensus given here.

from a players perspective:

You are likely placed where ever the hole is.If JV doesnt have enough players,then chances are someone will be placed there.If there is no CF,chances are someone who has never played there better be ready.

Also,you might have to deal with coaches who have their "favorite" guys or who play people based on parental involvement.

its not exactly fair,but you either have to go along with it,or chances are you wont play.

Letting it play out and see what happens was always the plan. You can't address something that hasn't happened yet. My questions were always meant as a what if since this is our first time through this and nothing has happened yet since they are still in tryouts. Trying to be able to know the answers and be prepared if and when the situation arises. What an opportunity to learn from the best.
I can already see that the coaches have their favorites based on parental involvement. I was also warned by a parent of a son that had graduated that I better be involved if I want my son to play. I'm sure favortism exists. I think it's only natural when a coach has a friendship with one parent and doesn't know the other. It's very difficult to be impartial. However, I can't believe a coach would sit a kid with more ability and hurt the team because a parent is on the booster board or something like that.

bb1, I sent you a pm.

Also, something I just want to mention. I have 3 boys on my team this year who have Dads that have been very active in our program. One of those Dads is viewed as having my "ear." Nothing is more false. In fact, I played softball with him for years and everyone knows that but when his sons came to our school, I laid down the rules for he and I. He has NEVER deviated from those rules. OF COURSE RUMORS STILL PERSIST. This gentleman's son is a 4-year starter and so, the rumors started right away. His son was/is the fastest kid in our school. He had one of the fastest clocked times in any showcase in the nation. He has a career batting average on the varsity of .423. He has averaged 4+ homeruns each year. He averages 21 stolen bases a year and this year our goal is 40+. His son has signed with a prominent D-I program. So much for rumors.

Coach that kid obviously deserves everything he gets. He's earned it.
Situation with us there is a kid that batted .200 last year as a freshman. Stats have been verified, 50+ at bats. Not against the best competition. Our 8th grade team would have 10 runned them. He is hitting with the varsity right now. Mom is heavily involved in the program. What are we supposed to think? Does he deserve this? He was at less than half the winter workouts, my son went to all but one.

quote:

Originally posted by bb1:
Today I spoke to his 2 coaches from last year and got what I think is good advice. First please understand that I WILL NOT say anything to a coach that is not my place. It is up to my son to ask.
I’ll agree that parents should never “pimp” their kid, nor get involved in normal every day team happenings, but to say you’ll never say anything to a coach because its not you place is IMHO, flat out wrong! You may give a coach authority over your kid, but you can never give him the responsibility for the kid. If you see something you know is wrong or in conflict with your beliefs, its your absolute duty to speak up.
He can't play on a good summer team because if he doesn't play with the school in the summer there will be issues.
What issues? You are the parent, you get to make the decisions. If you want him to play with a good summer team, there is no “issue”. He plays with the summer team, and if the coach doesn’t like it, then there’s an issue.

I do believe that the best player plays and just because he also pitches doesn't mean he loses his position in the field.
Sometimes that’s true, and sometimes it isn’t. it all depends on the coach’s philosophy.

Coach 25 Not playing a position because he's number 1. I understand your reasoning but it's not easy to agree to at his age. Maybe as a junior or senior.
I don’t understand why its OK for one and not the other. Either its a valid reason or it isn’t.

I understand you are trying to protect the kids arm and his future and it makes sense to error on the side of caution.
Of course it does, and that shouldn’t be any different for a Fr or a Sr.

The kids have been told that if they can't pitch 7 innings they don't want them. I hate to take sides here, but is that something you heard the coaches say, or s that something you heard? If I was a bettin’ man, I’d bet it was something you kid told you, and he misinterpreted something that was said.

3up-3down I'm sorry location can not be given out for fear of the wrong person reading posts. That is another issue.
It sounds as though you believe there’s something going on there which may or may not be true. I know I felt the exact same way for a long time, but eventually I got fed up with allowing others to force me into doing things because I feared the consequences. It’s a very risky business challenging the establishment because it literally does have the power of play/no play for you son, and its terrible!

Situation with us there is a kid that batted .200 last year as a freshman. Stats have been verified, 50+ at bats. Not against the best competition. Our 8th grade team would have 10 runned them. He is hitting with the varsity right now. Mom is heavily involved in the program. What are we supposed to think? Does he deserve this? He was at less than half the winter workouts, my son went to all but one.
Have you asked the HC for a sit down? There is a slim chance he’ll discuss his reasons for making the decisions he makes, an deven a slimmer on he’ll discuss another player with you, but why not give it a shot?

If you don’t want to do that, give the AD a go. There’s another slim chance he’s gonna cut the HC’s legs out from under him, but ya never know.

If neither of those two options tickles your fancy, do what I and lots of other parents have done, and go to the principal, After all, the buck for everything goin’ on at the school stops at that desk.

Now that I’ve been a real meanie and a jerk, let me say that I couldn’t empathize with you more! What you’re going through is something that’s going on in every HS program to at least some degree. Unfortunately, the bottom line is, playing baseball for the school is a privilege not a right. Its also something students volunteer for, and parents/guardians have to agree to by signing their name on the dotted line of the permission slip.

When I went to the coach, he told me to my face that he would never discuss playing time with any parent or player, and he would never discuss another player’s situation.

When I went to the AD, he said the coach had his full backing and would never take any action to get involved unless there was some question of illegality, or danger to a player involved. He finished by saying what I told you above, then following that with that I was welcome to withdraw my son from the activity.

When I went to the principal, she basically said the same thing. She’d hired the AD based on his skills, and the AD vouched for the coach. unless I had proof of some kind of wrongdoing, she suggested I either learn to live with what was going on, or withdraw my son from the baseball program.

Interesting discussion. I don't know what most coaches have for a policy on the issue of the one kid hitting whatever and your kid coming to open gyms and...

Here is my policy. I'll talk to you about your son. I won't talk about any other player. Do politics exist in hs ball? You bet! Can those politics be overcome? YOU BET!

Back to the original question about pitching. I think pitchers that play positions typically are typically used to being the star of a team. I'm sure it is earned. However, misuse of their arm will quickly make them an alsoran. If I were the parents, I'd want a coach that worried too much rather than one that told John John to get out there and play.

Wow. Scorekeeper how do I answer. You are right if I see something wrong I will most likely speak up. However, it will not be over playing time that is up to the coach and earned. However, today I did buy a pitch counter to keep track of my sons pitches. I did actually hear a coach say seven innings or your no use to us. I also got it from a parent and my son. Last year we limited our kids to 75 pitches and usually much less. So that is a huge concern for me.
I've been told by past players that they were never forgiven for playing with a different team in the summer rather than the school legion team. If he did that he'd probably be switching schools also.

Juniors and Seniors are getting closer to college and probably know if they can hit and field or not by now, as a freshman you are still feeling your way and not quite sure if you want to concentrate on pitching or playing the field.
I'd love a coach who is cautious and looking out for the kids but that doesn't seem to be the case here not when they want 7 innings.
If I was a coach I would not discuss anybody but your kid no one elses is your concern. I'd expect the AD and principal to react the way they did for you they have to back their coaches or there would be chaos.
CoachB25, most pitchers were the stars of their teams and shortstops or centerfielders or catchers and that is where the problem lies. Why when a kid who was playing a lot of games per year pitching and playing suddenly going from 8th grade to high school make such a huge differnce? Right now there appears actually to be less throwing in high school than he's used to. The pace and competition is different but not time spent on the field.

My son is also a LHP. His soph year he DHed in HS, was #1 pitcher his Junior and Senior years and played first. In general our HS coach - who was a pitcher - will not play his regular starters in the outfield, catching or at shortstop. I have listened to many parents who were not happy about this - but do think that he is watching out for their son's arms.

quote:

Originally posted by bb1:
However, today I did buy a pitch counter to keep track of my sons pitches.
LOL!

If ya wanna know the truth, rather than a pitch counter, I’d much rather have seen you buy a scorebook and learn to keep score correctly. The reason I say that is it would give you an ability far too few parents have. Unless there’s a scoresheet right in front of them, most people will discuss a game on their recollections and perceptions rather than may have necessarily happened.

I know there were a lot of times my kid went on some kind of rant or other about a performance of his or someone else’s, but when I’d get out the sheet and remind him of everything that was goin’ on rather than what his mind all pumped up on adrenaline remembered, he cool off a whole lot sooner.

I did actually hear a coach say seven innings or your no use to us. I also got it from a parent and my son.
Now that’s something you might want to discuss with him, and the AD. The reason I say that is, its thinking like that that will push a kid into doing something really stupid, and that makes it a safety issue.

However, I find it extremely difficult to believe he meant it the way you and I are taking it. If he did mean it that way, every P on the team would be able to throw 7 innings every time out, and that’s just flat out absurd. I think its more likely he didn’t express himself very well.

Last year we limited our kids to 75 pitches and usually much less. So that is a huge concern for me.
75 is a good number, but it shouldn’t be carved in stone. FI, if a P throws 40 pitches on Tues, he should be throwing 75 on Thur. Likewise, if he hasn’t pitched in a game in a week but has been otherwise working out, and has no arm issues, 75 might just be getting’ loose.

I've been told by past players that they were never forgiven for playing with a different team in the summer rather than the school legion team. If he did that he'd probably be switching schools also.
There certainly are still some Neanderthal coaches around who feel they have to exert every bit of control they can! Fortunately, I think that with the knowledge being gained all the time, guys like that will eventually fade away into obscurity.

The trouble is, there’s really no way to prove that’s the reason a kid wouldn’t make the team or get to play much in the future. All a jerk coach like that has to say is that in his opinion …

Juniors and Seniors are getting closer to college and probably know if they can hit and field or not by now, as a freshman you are still feeling your way and not quite sure if you want to concentrate on pitching or playing the field.
Look, if it were up to me, no one would be locked into a position until they got paid for it, but I don’t run baseball. there’s a heap of folks out there who feel vastly different, and many of them pull the strings on the team. To me the biggest thing is that the kids just keep playing, whatever it takes! You never know what will happen.


I'd love a coach who is cautious and looking out for the kids but that doesn't seem to be the case here not when they want 7 innings.
Like I said, I think I’d go forward with that one. There’s far too much evidence out there and opinions from well known authorities that make thinking like that out to be what it is, archaic.

I've done way too much score keeping over the years. I understand your point about a book but I've missed out on a lot of pictures because that is what I've been doing the last 6 years. I could continue if I wanted to and it probably would be for the best if I did but I'm done with that.
That being said I've seen sac bunts being recorded as at bats for HS kids. I've also seen sac flies being scored as at bats for HS kids. All by people who didn't know the book.
I've had parents wanting hits on one hoppers betweeen the legs of a fielder.


I also had a parent that would keep a book besides me and it was done becasue they were jealous of the coaches kid and even went so far as to say that the coach changed scoring after the game. He didn't mine was the final say but you couldn't convince them of that. The coaches kid was the best player on the team.

wisbballmom thanks for relaying your experience I will definitely keep that in mind. If they really do want 7 innings. Which isn't going to happen on a reasonable pitch count. Then the kids shouldn't be playing after pitching. It sounds like their pitch counts are out of this world.

bb1,
Here's a great suggestion.

Go with the flow and try to enjoy instead of trying to analyze and have others analyze what may or may not be.

You will be amazed how quickly your son's HS seasons fly by, try to enjoy, a lot changes between freshman to senior year. Your son will change too, physically and mentally.

Tiger Paw Mom
I've enjoyed every minute of watching my son mature and improve. If it ended today there would be no regrets. He was given the opportuinties to work to improve and he did it, not me, him. It was his efforts. He's been through up's and downs, he's had injuries and comeback stronger. I've never had a problem with a coach that knew what he was doing. My son did not move from team to team searching for something better as I see so many parents of kids doing. He had to deal with what he was dealt. What is wrong with trying to know more about what goes on in HS baseball? It helps if you know what to do or say when the situation arises and not if. Initial reactions are often wrong. With the group at his school there is a real concern if the wrong thing is said or done.
The situation I mention IS going to happen. It has already happened to other kids in the program. It is just a matter of when. Should it be as a freshman? Yesterday the last day of tryouts they finally asked the kids what position they played. He was listed just as a pitcher. He told the coach I am a LF, CF, RF and 1B also. For them to wait for the last day to find this out was in and of itself very telling. If we hadn't discussed this already and with ideas from this forum he probably wouldn't have said anything. So thanks to everyone who took the question seriously enough to give constructive answers. Should he have the opportunity to prove he can play defense and hit without being stereotyped as a pitcher. I think EVERY kid should have the opportunity. If he doesn't deserve it fine but let it be decided on the field not in somebodies mind. If given the chance I am sure he will be in the lineup.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bb1:
I've done way too much score keeping over the years. I understand your point about a book but I've missed out on a lot of pictures because that is what I've been doing the last 6 years. I could continue if I wanted to and it probably would be for the best if I did but I'm done with that.
You’re right about having to miss some aspects of the game because of that darn book, but to me, it’s the only real way to be able to evaluate what’s gone on, and a very important part of the game. Different strokes.

That being said I've seen sac bunts being recorded as at bats for HS kids. I've also seen sac flies being scored as at bats for HS kids. All by people who didn't know the book.
I've had parents wanting hits on one hoppers betweeen the legs of a fielder.


I also had a parent that would keep a book besides me and it was done becasue they were jealous of the coaches kid and even went so far as to say that the coach changed scoring after the game. He didn't mine was the final say but you couldn't convince them of that. The coaches kid was the best player on the team.
There’s no doubt in my mind that there’s more hanky panky goin’ on with baseball scoresheets than there is in just about any other sport. But to me, that just proves how important it is to try to get it right. Players, coaches, reporters, administrators, and fans all come and go, but the records are forever, and what makes baseball the game it is. QUOTE]

I didn't NOT take your post seriously.

One thing I have learned, and someday you will look back and understand, you are talking HS baseball. No problem asking what goes on, but for every program you have diffent coaching styles and different coaching philosophies. You're putting the cart before the horse and worrying about something you cannot control at this moment. That is just my opinion.

Do not think that I do not understand your concerns for you wanting to see your son play different positions. I considered that as a sophmore and junior, my son was one of the best players on the team (like we all do), he could play any position, no problem. He was the ONLY pitcher NOT allowed to play other positions or hit, for two years. It killed him, could he have developed better skills? As I stated finally as a senior he got to hit and play first base and he led the team that year in BA and HR's. The two year layoff didn't stop him from being successful, he still took batting practice at every chance he could and fielded infield/outfield during practice and warm ups. Most importantly, I feel because he played limited role as pitcher only in HS and travel his arm is healthier today for it.

The topic was regarding HS pitchers just pitching, but somewhere it took another direction.

Pretty good thread for a freshman parent to read.........

Tiger Paw mom.
Thank you that is more of what I am looking for. Experience is a great teacher and if I can learn from your experiences that is great. Sounds like your son was taken good care of by the coach. I only hope that someday my son will be able to say the same. Right now with the coaches outlook on pitching (7 innings or we can't use you) I don't believe that will be true.