H.S. Stats - Not too important but...

No.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, wouldn't the GB in the infield on which the SS chose to try to get the lead runner at the plate be recorded as a Fielder's Choice, not a hit?

Go easy FloridaFan:
in example 1) it is a Sac and an RBI (no at bat)
in number 2 it isn't a hit; it's a fielders choice

If he really likes math and baseball have him read some articles on Sabermetrics... he'll love 'em.

That would be a fielder's choice.

I'm going to say that most of the time when coaches get together to pick all *whatever* the stats are rarely correct. They get inflated all the time (at least from my experience). Sounds like this coach might need a refresher in Baseball Stats 101 but he might be going to these meetings with a .420 avg instead of a .390 or .350 avg.

Sounds like a fielders choice on the groundball. As for not recording a sac fly properly? Whoever does the scorebook for a varsity game should at least know how to keep score.

As for going to the coach to correct him, forget about it.

I've also seen hits scored as errors and errors scored as hits incorrectly so it probably works out in the end anyway.

Chances are it's not the coach keeping score. At our school it's a girl. I enter the data from the book onto the website. I have the authority to change scoring mistakes (dropping a fly ball for two bases is not a double). I don't take issue with a parent pointing out possible scoring or data entry errors. I have access to video of the game to crosscheck possible mistakes. I will not debate hits and errors.

As a travel coach I wanted a scorekeeo who could do the book correctly. I did not want to hear from parents or players over the judgement of hits and errors.

Ok...I was told by my older son who knows infinately more about baseball than I that he thought the "fielders choice" would not be, since everyone was safe and no error committed, that it therefore should be an infield hit. Otherwise how do you not know that the hitter would not have beat the throw anyway.

But we will keep quiet and not say a word.

On the sac fly we were not counting it as an "at bat" so instead of going 2/3 coach has him 2/4. This has happened about 3 times this season.

I agree with all of the advice given here. Its not that important and in your description it even sounds like they scored at least one of the two scenarios correctly (throw to the plate was a fielder's choice even though no out was recorded).

About the first time I ever thought I saw stats more or less correctly recorded was in college. Youth baseball? Forget it. Summer travel ball? Forget much of it. HS ball? Well I always wondered how the kid who gave up 4 runs against our team must've never given up another earned run the rest of the season?

Usually the scoring favors the team thats doing the scoring.

Its a mess, everyone knows it...college coaches don't care much, if at all...they just wanna see your son play and make their own evaluation.

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I was told by my older son who knows infinately more about baseball than I that he thought the "fielders choice" would not be, since everyone was safe and no error committed, that it therefore should be an infield hit.

It possibly could be...that is if in the scorer's honest opinion the batter would have been safe at 1st if a play there had been made. But thats a stretch and rarely scored that way in a higher level game.

An example might be a perfectly placed bunt where the only play the 1st or 3rd baseman thought they had (and correctly thought) was at home.

It is "possible" for that fielders choice to be ruled a hit. Would have to see the play in order to score that one.

Ok, I am good with the fielders choice. At least he got the RBI.

Thanks guys!

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he thought the "fielders choice" would not be, since everyone was safe and no error committed, that it therefore should be an infield hit.

If there was an opportunity to get an out with ordinary effort and the fielder did not take that option, it's still a fielder's choice.

In the judgement of the scorekeeper if the hitter would have been safe at 1B and all other runers are safe at their bases... That would be scored a hit!

Example, slow hit ball or ball hit in the hole with no chance to get the hitter. Fielder makes a throw to the plate because that runner had stumbled. The throw to the plate is too late to beat that runner.

Base Hit!

Quiz, NFHS rules: Runners on first and second, two outs. Hitter grounds to second, second baseman fields the ball, has trouble getting it out of his glove, double pumps, throws a floater to first and hitter is safe. The next hitter cranks a granny. What's the call on the grounder? How many earned runs? Why?

Never ask a question like that to a pitchers parent.

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Quiz, NFHS rules: Runners on first and second, two outs. Hitter grounds to second, second baseman fields the ball, has trouble getting it out of his glove, double pumps, throws a floater to first and hitter is safe. The next hitter cranks a granny. What's the call on the grounder? How many earned runs? Why?

Just being slow is not an error. So the way you describe it, it would be a hit. The GS results in four earned runs (assuming no previous errors resulted in the first two runners being on).

However, if we consider it mishandled, then it's an error and all the runs are unearned since the inning should be over...

I'd have to see it in person to really know.

So,what do you call a runner on first that takes off on pitch, ground ball to short but 2nd doesn't cover (no time, forgets, mental e???) but now can't get batter (fairly quick)? No bobble but tosses to kid still standing at his position (2nd baseman) after runners are to the bases. FC though no play was ever made to anyone? Can't count mental errors, but would never know if batter would beat it out.

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So,what do you call a runner on first that takes off on pitch, ground ball to short but 2nd doesn't cover (no time, forgets, mental e???) but now can't get batter (fairly quick)? No bobble but tosses to kid still standing at his position (2nd baseman) after runners are to the bases. FC though no play was ever made to anyone? Can't count mental errors, but would never know if batter would beat it out.

A cheap hit...Good SS would recognize the hit-and-run and just throw to first for the out but if he holds the ball waiting for 2B to get into position and everyone is safe it's a hit. Again, being slow is not an error...

Makes up for the pop fly behind second base that looks like it might be caught so the runner holds, but it falls and they get the force at second...fielder's choice...

All this stuff tends to even out over the long haul...

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Originally posted by PGStaff:
Never ask a question like that to a pitchers parent.

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Originally posted by Hawk19:

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Quiz, NFHS rules: Runners on first and second, two outs. Hitter grounds to second, second baseman fields the ball, has trouble getting it out of his glove, double pumps, throws a floater to first and hitter is safe. The next hitter cranks a granny. What's the call on the grounder? How many earned runs? Why?

Just being slow is not an error. So the way you describe it, it would be a hit. The GS results in four earned runs (assuming no previous errors resulted in the first two runners being on).

However, if we consider it mishandled, then it's an error and all the runs are unearned since the inning should be over...

I'd have to see it in person to really know.

Give this man a cheap cigar! It was on video. I watched it and watched it until I could see a slight slip/mishandle of the ball attempting to pull the ball out of the glove the first time, so I could call it an error. Before the video I had it a hit.

My advice is to not worry about stats in high school. Inconsistant scoring, incorrect scoring, and favoritism are all over. Some of it evens out, most of it just doesn't matter to anybody important. The all-league stuff is more flawed than the scoring. Players are favored in these selections based on familiarity from other sports, parental influence, and coaches pimping for their favorites.

My advice to my son was worry about the wins-losses and team contributions more than stats, and play well enough that any scoring errors or selection biases get buried by your superior play.

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A cheap hit...

Those are the hits that make up for the line drives in the gaps that some great outfielder stretches and dives and comes up with the ball.

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I watched it and watched it until I could see a slight slip/mishandle of the ball attempting to pull the ball out of the glove the first time, so I could call it an error. Before the video I had it a hit.

This sounds absurd. It sounds like you watched the video to get the result you desired before watching the video. This brings into question your judgment as a scorekeeper imho. Why not keep score like normal scorekeepers keep score? If you originally called it a hit, then it was a hit. I don't really get the svengalli approach.

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Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

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I watched it and watched it until I could see a slight slip/mishandle of the ball attempting to pull the ball out of the glove the first time, so I could call it an error. Before the video I had it a hit.

This sounds absurd. It sounds like you watched the video to get the result you desired before watching the video. This brings into question your judgment as a scorekeeper imho. Why not keep score like normal scorekeepers keep score? If you originally called it a hit, then it was a hit. I don't really get the svengalli approach.

The pitcher hasn't allowed an earned run all season. A an incorrect scorekeeping call shouldn't screw that up. If the technology is there, use it. The video proved the fielder bobbled the ball in his glove. MLB will change scorekeeping calls the next day.

"This brings into question your judgment as a scorekeeper imho."

Thank you very much for the compliment. You are 100% correct. Being of the highest integrity I wanted to get the call correct.

If you have been around the game for any length of time you know what a hit is and what is not a hit. When you start factoring in things outside of the actual play itself your judgement will get skewed and you will start giving and taking. Just make a call and move on.

Kid has a no hitter going in the 5th a ball his hit up the middle the SS gets there and hurries his throw because the runner is almost there. The kid beats it out but the throw is a little off line. If you are thinking "Man the kid has a no hitter going and its the 5th" you are going to start thinking too much and you are going to make a call based on the circumstances of the game and not the actually play. Forget about era's , no hitters etc etc and just score it.

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Kid has a no hitter going in the 5th a ball his hit up the middle the SS gets there and hurries his throw because the runner is almost there. The kid beats it out but the throw is a little off line. If you are thinking "Man the kid has a no hitter going and its the 5th" you are going to start thinking too much and you are going to make a call based on the circumstances of the game and not the actually play. Forget about era's , no hitters etc etc and just score it.

If the kid 'beats it out' then it's a hit. For me, the problem being the SK in that scenario is when a 'good' throw would have nailed him but, if he had, it would have been an extraordinary play. I hate to give an 'E' in those cases (and thus consistantly rule those 'Hits'). You're 100% correct. The no-hitter doesn't factor into it.

I've noticed however that our coach does have a bias toward our pitchers and hitters. In the 'official' book it's an 'E' when we're on defense and an 'H' on offense.

I know it's not right, but I'm sure he is trying to keep our stats up in relation to other teams since he is very aware of what others are posting. (We had a conversation about another team in our league that is batting over .400 and yet only had a total of three hits in 12 innings against us...)

Yeah my point is if your just scoring it then you just score it as you see it. If your thinking "Hmmm the kid has a no hitter going and ............." then your judgement gets skewed.

I get cracked up every year at our all conference meetings. We go 14-0 in the conference and we are hitting .328 as a team in conf play. And then some of the other coaches come out with 7 nominations for all conference and they are all hitting .400 plus in conf. Happens all the time.

Stats are only as good as the person keeping them. But then you have to factor in level of competition played , etc etc. Stats are for fun. And they do assist me when I break them down to a meaningful stat. For instance. When we are getting ready for the playoffs and we are going to be facing a quality arm I go back and I break down the stats vs quality pitchers. Do I see something that will help me make a decision on one kid over another in the batting line up? Sometimes a kid hitting .320 is a .120 hitter against quality arms. And a kid hitting .250 is a .250 hitter against quality arms. Other than that it means nothing to me.

Coach May,
SS makes a nice play up the middle, has time to set but flips it sidearm and throws it away. Ball passes base far before runner reaches the base. Hit or error?

Nice call on the .320 vs. .120 watched several kids do well in winter ball against weak competition who it was pretty obvious would not do well against quality arms. Watched another kid who I predicted would do just as well against quality arms as he does against weaker pitching because he's got the bat speed/quickness but not that "good" of a swing. I was wrong. He's tearing up the quality arms.

I would score it E6

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I would score it E6

CADad...Why would you even ask if this was an error?

Forgot to add one little thing. SS was a senior. Let's just say the pitcher was not a favorite with the coach.

Hawk,
Only because it was scored a hit.

I keep stats for our high school. I don't mind someone questioning a possible typo, a rules interpretation, or something I missed. I don't/won't argue errors/hits, though. I hope that our stats are somewhat meaningful, but in the context of all of the other ones, this can put our guys at a disadvantage.

A couple of years ago, one of the players accused me of bias against him. I just let the head coach call anything "gray" for that player as well as for the two relatives (son and cousin) I had on the team to remove bias in this situation. It is a lot simpler now that they are all gone, but I have already had a pitcher's parent lobbying for me to call things errors to reduce earned runs.

On the all region thing, a couple of years ago there was a team that won two or three games but had seven starters batting .400, by their declaration. I always prepare a set of notes for the head coach with the best performances against us using our own accounting from each team and those are more influential in our votes than what they say at the selection meeting. Plus, we know which teams are credible and which are not. I looked at my scorebook as to what was published by the "all .400" team and found that they consistently ruled errors as hits if they were "gray", gave their batters no "AB" if there was an obvious error, and gave their batters base hits on every "reach by fielder's choice" sitution. All of their OBPs were inflated by these same numbers (including many of the otherwise credible teams whose Batting Averages were not inflated).

As far as stats go i only cared about one. At the end of the game we had at least one more run than the other team. As far as picking all league and all that I knew who played well against us and I did not need stats to know who on my team is hitting the ball fielding and pitching well.

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A couple of years ago, one of the players accused me of bias against him. I just let the head coach call anything "gray" for that player as well as for the two relatives (son and cousin) I had on the team to remove bias in this situation. It is a lot simpler now that they are all gone, but I have already had a pitcher's parent lobbying for me to call things errors to reduce earned runs.

There are three parents unhappy with me for making the right scoring calls on their sons. They weren't even appeased when I showed them the printed rule.
The other day my son charged a ball, it took a bad hop on him and rolled up his arm into his ribs. All three came over to make sure I was giving him his first error of the season. On the last play of the game, up two runs with runners on second and third, he made a great backhanded stop and threw out the hitter. I turned around and sarcastically said, "Is it OK if I give him an assist?" I didn't even want the job. I was just tired of the book being sloppy and inaccurate.

Yeah I love those slow throws by the SS on what should be routine ground balls that get scored as infield hits. If ordinary effort should have resulted in an out, those should be errors.

I watched a great play by SS Ranny Lowe of Notre Dame HS last night. He robbed what should have been a sure base hit to shallow left field. He made like superman and took the bullet.

As long as you are keeping that book and your son is playing on that team , get used to people talking trash about you and questioning your scorekeeping. If you can handle it then don't worry about it. If its going to P you off and take away from you enjoying the games - TOSS it to someone else ASAP.

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Should my son approach the coach and point this out, it is important to him, he loves math and wants to compete against his older brother and beat him out. It is part of what drives him.

Hopefully his older brother had / has the same degree of accuracy in his statistics. If so then all is equal. He wouldn't want to have an unfair advantage, I'm sure. We refer to it as standard deviation or slop factor. I would just let it go. BTW all conference / state / district is heavily weighted toward coaches who brown nose reporters and other coaches for votes, imo. That stuff is for weenies. Nobody cares or remembers next week.

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There are three parents unhappy with me for making the right scoring calls on their sons. They weren't even appeased when I showed them the printed rule.
The other day my son charged a ball, it took a bad hop on him and rolled up his arm into his ribs. All three came over to make sure I was giving him his first error of the season. On the last play of the game, up two runs with runners on second and third, he made a great backhanded stop and threw out the hitter. I turned around and sarcastically said, "Is it OK if I give him an assist?" I didn't even want the job. I was just tired of the book being sloppy and inaccurate.

I wouldn't keep score in HS if they paid me. Parents are ridiculous. At my sons HS the coaches father in law sat in the dug out and did all the scorekeeping. it was awesome and no problems.

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There are three parents unhappy with me for making the right scoring calls on their sons. They weren't even appeased when I showed them the printed rule.
The other day my son charged a ball, it took a bad hop on him and rolled up his arm into his ribs. All three came over to make sure I was giving him his first error of the season

You volunteered? now try being the coach and bench one of their kids because of poor play?

It used to be said children should be seen and not heard.