HS Tryout Question

He’s too much of a distraction to be on the team. The parent should have talked with the coach before trying out and explained the situation. The coach would have tap danced and allowed the tryout.

Afterwards, the coach would have gone to the AD who would have gone to the principal telling him the kid is too much of a discipline problem to be part of the team.

The principal would have gone to the superintendent who would have gone to the school board and school district lawyer on how to handle any potential legal issues.

I texted a lawyer who represents school districts about this one. I’ll update if I get a response. Chances are there’s a legal precedent for him not to play based on the safety of other players and his own safety.

I had an autistic kid on my 9/10 rec softball team. I only played her in left or right. The mother had to stand down the line, talk to her and keep her head in the game. One time I was on a knee talking with another player. The kid hit me in the head with a bat. It wasn’t intentional. But there wasn’t a reason for her to be swinging a bat at that time.

I put 4 to 1 odds on this being an imaginary scenario.

If he already punched 3 players & whacked a coach with a bat, what will happen when he's bored after 2 hours in the dugout? Or if the coach pitches him & he gets a bad call from the ump? There's little chance he'd make it through the season without a major incident, and everyone would be walking in eggshells around him. Not good for team chemistry.

@3and2Fastball posted:

I put 4 to 1 odds on this being an imaginary scenario.

You think I could make this up?

The player has punched other players, but maybe he should still make the team because he’s “differently abled “.?  I mean c’mon…

FWIW, it's a real situation. Personally, it would be an easier situation if he hadn't been clocked at 80 and hit some BP homers. If you were terrible at the tryout then that's reason for not making the team.  The players I know are sympathetic to his situation but really don't want him on the team, not even as the last kid on the roster for show, because he's too out of control and physically violent at times. (There was a different autistic kid on the freshman team in 2019 who was allowed on the freshman team with them and they all loved him. He dressed for every game but never played. But he had more control over himself.)

@3and2Fastball posted:

The player has punched other players, but maybe he should still make the team because he’s “differently abled “.?  I mean c’mon…

It's an interesting case. Personally, I wouldn't want him near my kid. And, if he punched my kid and damaged him by breaking his nose, or a tooth, or an eye socket, I'm pressing charges and suing somebody. But, I also fully understand that it's different when it's something that the kid can't control. The whole thing sounds like a mess.

God bless him. Can't be on the team

@Francis7 posted:

You think I could make this up?

I think there are no limits to what your mind can spawn.

Update from lawyer who is on retainer to school districts …

It’s unlikely the kid would be allowed to participate. If allowed, one incident moving forward would terminate participation.

@Francis7 posted:

I totally understand cutting a talented player with a bad attitude. But, in this case, it's not the kid's fault when he acts badly. He cannot control it. But, on the other hand, you cannot roster someone who is likely to cause physical harm to a teammate, coach or umpire because he cannot control his urges.

100% disagree.    It is the kid's fault when he acts badly as you've seen 3 times prior.   Autism is not a license to hurt people.   Autism is a developmental condition that impairs communication and interactions with people.  Baseball requires communication and interactions with people.   He should have been gone after his 1st incident.

Where are his parents on this issue?   This is a safety issue and is impacting other people's well being.    He can control it, and if he can't control his urges then his parents have put him and others in harms way.   They are 100% responsible for him and his actions.   

JMO.

@fenwaysouth posted:

100% disagree.    It is the kid's fault when he acts badly as you've seen 3 times prior.   Autism is not a license to hurt people.   Autism is a developmental condition that impairs communication and interactions with people.  Baseball requires communication and interactions with people.   He should have been gone after his 1st incident.

Where are his parents on this issue?   This is a safety issue and is impacting other people's well being.    He can control it, and if he can't control his urges then his parents have put him and others in harms way.   They are 100% responsible for him and his actions.   

JMO.

This is essentially the detailed response I received from my lawyer contact.

If you knowingly put a minor in a situation where they can be assaulted, and they are assaulted, you are liable. No school would or should risk the liability after the first two incidents. The disability or the player's intent are irrelevant.

He places teammates in danger.  What if he decides to do this to the bus driver as they go down the road?  Also, since this is a student who would have accommodations, if those accommodations in the classroom are such as to deem this student a danger then this player can not be on the team.  The kids who have been attacked have rights as well including the right to a safe playing environment.  What happens when this player hits a member of another team?   Again, this player can not be on the team.

He should have been cut the first time he punched a team mate. Whether it's in his control or not, keeping a player like that would poison the whole season.

The fact that this is even a discussion is absurd. It’s not the responsibility of the general public to accommodate people that are mentally ill in order to weave them into the fabric of society. It’s the responsibility of those that are trained to help those with mental illness to do that.

1- Autism isn't a mental illness.  It's a disability.

2- There are countless examples of students with physical and developmental disabilities benefitting from participation, while enriching the experience  of student athletes.  I would argue weaving those with disabilities into society makes us a better, more compassionate people with a better perspective on life.  Our program had a PO several years ago who was fairly severe on the autism spectrum.  He, and his family, were a great addition.  I think the boys actually learned a lot about themselves (especially about how they react to external stimulus) by learning how to best interact with this child.

3- Aggressive behavior is not ok and as stated above I'm not sure how the district is allowing him to participate. It's actually unheard of with clear precedence that it shouldn't.

@fenwaysouth posted:

100% disagree.    It is the kid's fault when he acts badly as you've seen 3 times prior.   Autism is not a license to hurt people.   Autism is a developmental condition that impairs communication and interactions with people.  Baseball requires communication and interactions with people.   He should have been gone after his 1st incident.

Where are his parents on this issue?   This is a safety issue and is impacting other people's well being.    He can control it, and if he can't control his urges then his parents have put him and others in harms way.   They are 100% responsible for him and his actions.   

JMO.

That's what I keep getting back to...are the parents delusional? No one knows the child, their capabilities, their challenges and tendencies better than the parents.

I get wishing the best for your kid and stressing to overcome hurdles and going for your dreams. But if the kid has violent outbursts and randomly strikes people when left to his own devices, you can't encourage him to tryout for school sports.

@LousyLefty posted:

1- Autism isn't a mental illness.  It's a disability.

2- There are countless examples of students with physical and developmental disabilities benefitting from participation, while enriching the experience  of student athletes.  I would argue weaving those with disabilities into society makes us a better, more compassionate people with a better perspective on life.  Our program had a PO several years ago who was fairly severe on the autism spectrum.  He, and his family, were a great addition.  I think the boys actually learned a lot about themselves (especially about how they react to external stimulus) by learning how to best interact with this child.

Granted, aggressive behavior is not ok and as stated above I'm not sure how the district is allowing him to participate. It's actually unheard of with clear precedence that it shouldn't.

Call it what you want but anytime there is a threat of physical injury to others that make it more than a disability

Is this kid allowed to try out for the fencing team? How about the riflery team?

Not to pile on, but, today I heard that the same kid (in question) took another kid's batting helmet to hit, and, when he was done, he smashed it on the concrete dugout floor and cracked it.

I don't see how he can't be cut.

@Francis7 posted:

That's what I keep getting back to...are the parents delusional? No one knows the child, their capabilities, their challenges and tendencies better than the parents.

I get wishing the best for your kid and stressing to overcome hurdles and going for your dreams. But if the kid has violent outbursts and randomly strikes people when left to his own devices, you can't encourage him to tryout for school sports.

So now this is about delusional parents?

Is this someone on your son's team? 

If not,  is it really anyone's  business?

Sounds like someone wanted to give him a chance and they knew that he would fail.

Sad.

In our conference the schoiols got together abd created a unified sports program.  Think of it as a buddy ball program for HS kids.   I apologize if the terminology I use is not PC ... but the team has able bodied kids and developmentally disabled kids.  The teams are run by special ed teachers who arte trained to anticipate and diffuse situations like the one described.  The able bodied kids also go through some training.  Games are played in various sports under modified rules.  If the goal is inclusion - this is an option that any school can implement.

Team must be in pretty bad shape if they're considering keeping a senior who has never played baseball before.

@adbono posted:

The fact that this is even a discussion is absurd. It’s not the responsibility of the general public to accommodate people that are mentally ill in order to weave them into the fabric of society. It’s the responsibility of those that are trained to help those with mental illness to do that.

Unfortunately this goes on everyday in PA Public Schools...... Parents of kids demand their handicap child be placed in mainstream classes. Although they have aides, they still disrupt class for a minimum of 10 minutes for every hour of instruction. Kids with behavior disorders and severe ADHD are inadvertently destroying lesson plans for the class. Most parents don't know what goes on in the class or they would complain. Schools Districts are placating the handicap childs parents(squeeky wheels) because they dont want to have the district pay to have the child attend an alternative school.

@Velo From The Stretch posted:

Unfortunately this goes on everyday in PA Public Schools...... Parents of kids demand their handicap child be placed in mainstream classes. Although they have aides, they still disrupt class for a minimum of 10 minutes for every hour of instruction. Kids with behavior disorders and severe ADHD are inadvertently destroying lesson plans for the class. Most parents don't know what goes on in the class or they would complain. Schools Districts are placating the handicap childs parents(squeeky wheels) because they dont want to have the district pay to have the child attend an alternative school.

This was a few years ago. My son is 28 now. In second grade the school district decided to pair talented students with not so talented students. All of a sudden one day my son didn’t want to go to school anymore. He said he hated school. What happened was the less talented kid was holding him back. He decided school was boring and a waste of time.

I don’t know what happened to the program. My son was placed in the gifted program in 3rd grade leaving the problem in the dust.

They put him on the JV team even though he's a senior and they already have more than enough kids for a JV team. Just wait until he punches some sophomore in the face. This is not going to end well.

Francis, remember when you joined the board? One of the first things you learned was about what you can control and what you can’t. Since the situation doesn’t affect your son and it’s JV ball any further conversation would be filed under “gossip.”

https://youtu.be/mvhFs2bdRpE

Until the kid does something so egregious the whole baseball program gets shutdown...I refuse to let this thread fade away.

Lol @2022NYC