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21 replies

HS Tryout Sabotage

J joes8710,000+ posts
Hi All –
First of all thanks to everyone for their advice regarding my kid and his decisions regarding HS tryouts. Right now things appear to be going well. Ran into a “situation” and I think my kid did well, but Im hoping it doesn’t hurt his chances…

During the school day a kid comes up and says to my kid, “thought you did pretty well at practice yesterday”. My kid thanks him and goes about his day. Last night’s practice/tryout was focused on hitting. Coaches tell the kids beforehand that they are most concerned on the mechanics and things like bat speed, etc and less on them actually hitting the ball. Anyway, they go through a number of drills using the tee and soft toss. At one point during soft toss they ask the kids to start placing the ball around the “field” they set up some targets and ask the kids to get as close to the targets as possible. My kid hits the targets dead on 3 of the 5 times. He’s feeling pretty good about himself as his tee work was good and he is able to move the ball around like they ask. After that they ask the kids to pair up. One kid will pitch while the other one hits. The kid that stopped my kid in the hall asks if he wants to be his partner. My kid is pretty easy going, so he partners up with him. My kid throws first, says he throws the kid a nice speed fastball pretty much down the plate every time. My kid gets his turn to hit, the kid throws him one ball down the middle and the proceeds to purposely put everything else up and inside outside of the strike zone. Giving my kid nothing to hit. My son says he jacked the first one (the strike) and then after watching 6 or 7 pitches go by the coach starts telling my sons partner to put the ball down the middle of the plate. Kid brings the ball down but still keeps throwing outside of the strike zone. Another 3 or 4 pitches later, the coach again talks to my kids partner. Still no improvement. Throws a couple close but outside. My kid goes after a couple that are close and fouls them off. I asked him way he did this and he states, “I figured I had to let them see my swing at some point”. Anyway, this time the coach starts to lecture and yell at the other kid. Still nothing across the plate. They end my kids session. My kid comes home and is now depressed and explains to me what happens. He also says that some of his friends told him that the kid is actually a pretty good pitcher with decent control and was most likely doing this to keep my kid from hitting something. Basically I tell him he should be good. If the coaches really saw that the kid was purposely not throwing to my kid and repeatedly talked to the other kid they knew what was going on. I was a little surprised that the coach didn’t have someone else throw to my kid but I guess they probably saw what they needed to with the tee work and soft toss. Anyway, the coaches are big on teamwork and the intangibles (hustle, being “professional”, etc) so I also explained to him that this kid probably hurt himself more than taking you out of the running for a position.
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J joes8710,000+ posts
quote:
Glad you're getting to baseball in the frozen tundra.

Im with you. I was just emailing back and forth between a guy I coach my younger ones (11U) LL team with about trying to get outside this weekend. Supposed to be in the 50s, but there's lots of snow still on the ground. We thought it would be fun for the kids to actually hit outside as opposed to the batting cages. Hoping we can find a field somewhere with the snow melted off...
B Bas3balldad10+ posts
It doesn't sound like you have much to worry about. A lot of times coaches just want to see how hard you work along with the talent. That kid probably did more damage to his chances than to your son's.

My son's coach, before tryouts were over, flat out told me that my son isn't as talented but he works harder than almost everyone on the team. He made the team and is getting his chances to play. Started LF the first 2 games so far.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
relax

Ditto!

From TX-Husker:
quote:
I think you're seeing ghosts...it will work itself out.

Ditto again!

Joe - I never had any conversation with my son about the details of practice. I am sure I asked him generally now and then how things were going but I never got into it like this. Let your son handle these things on his own. He'll figure it out and so will the coaches.
J joes8710,000+ posts
quote:
relax

Yea I know. I am really not one of those over involved sports parents. For some reason I find my self "nervous" for my son. Which is not normal for me. This is something he really wants. I guess I am using the message boards as a sounding board rather then being an overbearing parent.

quote:
I never had any conversation with my son about the details of practice.

Its funny, my kid brought this up on his own. I walked if from work and and did my usual, "how was your day".
Coach WaltripCoach Waltrip100+ posts
Joe,

This does not sound like sabotage, but a kid who can't get the ball over the plate. What will happen will happen and thinking beyond this is an exercise in futility...

Encourage your son...let him know everything will be alright...and R-E-L-A-X...because your stress can play mind games on your son and I don't think you want that. My suggestion is that you stay as far away from the tryout as possible...for both your sakes...

...And no matter what happens, tell your son you love him!
B Bas3balldad10+ posts
Joe
I joined this messageboard for similar reason. After reading some of my own post and some of the responses I realized there wasn't any problem worth getting worked up about. I'm not saying you are getting worked up just say how I started.
Our kids are getting to play baseball there are much bigger things to worry about. Just enjoy the show.
zombywoofzombywoof1,000+ posts
quote:
This does not sound like sabotage, but a kid who can't get the ball over the plate. What will happen will happen and thinking beyond this is an exercise in futility...


Even though there's a good chance the kid couldn't throw a strike, don't ignore sabotage. My son had a similar situation in his freshman year tryouts with another freshman who partnered up with him in some sort of throwing drills where the kid was throwing the ball in an off spot where my son had to make the catch out of position or something like that. Reason I even knew about what happened was I asked him how tryouts were going and he told me what this kid did which ticked him off because he was trying to take care of business, do the right things while this player had other ideas.

I do believe that there are wiseguys at these tryouts who might try and pull some stunt and do it in a way where it looks like the other player messed up. Both my son and he were trying out as OF'ers so they were in direct competition.

Kids are sneaky. They might not be all that slick however.

In the end, this player got cut in those tryouts and never went out for the team again.
Last edited by zombywoof
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
If there is any lesson in this situation, it's pair up with a talented buddy you trust. With a buddy you will both trying to make each other look. With talent you can both execute the drills and look good doing them. Chances are the kid just couldn't throw strikes. Some pitchers can't without a catcher's mitt for focus. Please break long descriptions into paragraphs for ease of readability.
Last edited by RJM
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by zombywoof:
In the end, this player got cut in those tryouts and never went out for the team again.

Not sure why parents should be worried then In the original post of this thread, it sounds like the coach figured out who to reprimand. In your example zomby, it appears the coach was also able to figure things out.

Assuming there are wise-guys out there, I am more than confident that coaches will catch on to them in a hurry and will have no problem weeding them out. Sabotage, politics, back-stabbing, etc., etc., is part of the human condition. Tell the boy to keep his nose to the grindstone, control what he can control (his attitude and effort) and let the coaches figure out who the troublemakers are.

Also, I am guessing even the most incompetent coach in America is not going to make a roster decision on one throwing drill. There are other partners to pair with and other tryout activities in which to show what they can do.

The Eddie Haskell routine is easy to spot. Relax. That is why they invented coaches.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
There's a kid on my son's high school team most of the players don't trust. In terms of the high school "most likely" lists, I have him as most likely to be someone's prison female dog after being arrested for Wall Street fraud. The kid is very bright and very sneaky.

He's going to make varsity for the first time this year. He's already undermining returning varsity players behind their backs to other players coming up from JV. As CD stated, coaches figure this stuff out. The coach pulled him aside and had a not so friendly talk with him.
fillsfanfillsfan1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by RJM:
There's a kid on my son's high school team most of the players don't trust. In terms of the high school "most likely" lists, I have him as most likely to be someone's prison female dog after being arrested for Wall Street fraud. The kid is very bright and very sneaky.

He's going to make varsity for the first time this year. He's already undermining returning varsity players behind their backs to other players coming up from JV. As CD stated, coaches figure this stuff out. The coach pulled him aside and had a not so friendly talk with him.


If the coach didn't handle this kid the players probably would. High school kids have their own way of handling the A- holes.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
My son said the coach had a not so pleasant talk with the team about, "It doesn't matter where you played last year, stop strutting, shut your mouth and earn it this year."

The coach has always been aware there are parental factions on the sidelines. What he doesn't realize is one of these factions rips other players and it's finally passed on down to the kids.

Can you imagine a player saying to another, "Are the Bandits one of those overrated travel teams where the players think they're better than Legion players?" This stuff comes from parents. It also comes from ignorance.
Last edited by RJM
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Joe - I never had any conversation with my son about the details of practice. I am sure I asked him generally now and then how things were going but I never got into it like this. Let your son handle these things on his own. He'll figure it out and so will the coaches.


This is by no means critical of anyone's opinion about "Dads involvement" because to each their own, and at the same time I definitely understand where CD is coming from.

With that said.

My kid would come home from practice and I would ask how practice went. For one thing I had coached all the kids through LL and knew them well. The other I was interested in my sons life and whether he brought it up, or I did, that interest was part of our friendship and parental relationship. He would also ask me how my day was and that would evolve into a different types of conversation. If neither one of us had nothing to say...nothing was said. For those that say "Dads shouldn't be involved", I'm confessing, I was. Because we showed interest in each others life, and were able to share experiences, ask opinions, and give insight. IMHO, it cemented our bond that no one will ever judge. My point is that just because Jr has taken the next step into HS, there is nothing wrong with "prodding". The only dumb question is the one not asked. If he has nothing to say, he wont. Don't ever assume he has nothing to say because because it could be taken as you're not interested, or he's now on his own. I think this thought goes across the board in regard to topics and this is only a baseball POV.
Last edited by rz1
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
My kid would come home from practice and I would ask how practice went. For one thing I had coached all the kids through LL and knew them well. The other I was interested in my sons life and whether he brought it up, or I did, that interest was part of our friendship and parental relationship.
I agree. The conversations start with ... How was school? Any grades today? (I'm on him to make sure he gets a 3.7 the rest of the way for baseball reasons). Then, how was practice? Regarding baseball, sometimes I get "the grunt." Sometimes I get a story.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
rz1 - It would be most appreciated if you would not take my words out of "context" to play devil's advocate against a strawman that you appear to have created out of whole cloth. Confused

To be clear about "context," I was under the impression (perhaps mistakenly so) that my comments were directed to the topic/context of this thread (sabotage) and you seem to be talkiing about having Oprah-like discussions with your kids which is your perogative but hardly about the topic of this thread imho. In case you were unaware, "every" parent here is "highly" interested in their son's life as you put it (including me believe it or not) and no one suggested not having a relationship with them so have no idea why you would argue it like someone was saying otherwise

If my son brings this particular "topic" up (sabotage), I tell him what I said in this thread. Leave it up to the coach to figure out that someone is causing trouble and control the things under their control.

If you think the right approach is to play Dr. Phil on this one then say it to joes87 not to a fictional strawman using my words.

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