HS vs "Summer" Coaching

quote:

Originally posted by Observer NIL:
My son also played for 13yrTeam IL in 2004 under Pete Nazos of the Lake Zurich Cougars.
Pete has played professional baseball as well.

Played collegiately, professionally, member of P&H club and coached internationally. Taken all this experience to be a great teacher of the game. Pete Nazos is a phenomenal youth baseball coach.

You are absolutely right Tuzi, Nazos does all the right things and always conducts himself in a professional manner. There are some travel coaches that should take a page out of petes notebook and learn a few things.

Let me say that hitallday88 is a definite BALLPLAYER that I am SURE we will be hearing things from in the future. I was lucky enough to coach him his freshman year and as a 15YO travel ballplayer. He DEFINITELY thrives on competition, and will make a huge impact at the varsity level at New Trier this year. He should be an impact 2nd baseman in the CSL this year.

He makes a great point about his ability to learn and adjust his game while playing in games--he improved tremendously during his summer with me and also as a sophomore playing legion ball this past summer.

I agree in part with Observer--although I have yet to meet a HS player who "knows the game already." There is so much coaching that can occur during the summer--during games or practices. No coach does his players justice by simply "managing" them. At the higher levels of summer ball (16U and 18U), I think the emphasis CAN be on coaching through games. At the lower levels (15U and below), I think there should still be a good deal of practice time, as well as high level competition. This model may not work for everyone, but it certainly works for us.

K13 I agree 100% with your philosophy. I wish more coaches would practice it.

Thanks Observer--although I'd be afraid of anyone that agreed with me 100%

Powehitter2... I meant my comment to be sarcastic.
I have no idea who you are. My comment meant no harm to your son.
My knowledge of Tom and his program precludes me from shying away from your uninformed remarks.

What you posted (twice) is inaccurate and uninformed.

K13..uncalled for sniping. You are correct about Tom having short comings
....we all do. Imo, however I think any person that has spent hundred's of games coaching with Tom has a better understanding of his desire to face good competition than someone that has seen him play in 1 particular league. This was my point. I might have been nicer but PH2's post was both prejiduiced and slanderous.

K13...I would like to hear your thoughts on "covering the bag with the left foot"

uppercut.....I do not know PH2 any more than I know you. I don't make cracks about kids. I'm sorry you read it that way.

The sarcasm was aimed at PH2.

My son just got through playing a little Fall Ball against the Norwood Blues. These guys like Pildes and coaches of other what we call Summer teams are working with players so much more than is possible for even the msot dedicated HS coaches. It is mostly about time spent with the players, and when it comes to that the Summer Coaches seem to have the edge...not in ability neccessarily but in the length of time they have them.

Pildes is excellent when it comes to reinforcing the fundamentals of the game and working on situational baseball. I believe that most of the earlier posts were referring to travel coaches at the younger ages, not high school age .

My son played with Matsie for three years 5-7 years ago. We traveled all over the country and played some of the best in the nation for the age group. I look back at this as being some of the best times, warts and all. I don’t know if his methods were the best but you can’t argue with the results. IMHO there is no doubt that the experience contributed to my son’s ability to succeed in high school and get an opportunity to play at the next level. If I am not mistaken, Tom was responsible for scheduling 3 leagues at this age level. Therefore, we played in 3 area leagues. We were also one of the best traveling teams in the area so everyone wanted a shot at us. This may help explain why Matsie plays some weak sisters. It’s still great to know that Tom is the subject of discussion and controversy.

If you’re out there Tom…. Thanks for the memories!

“A team is where a boy can prove his courage on his own. A gang is where a coward goes to hide.” ~ Mickey Mantle

Smokey, I've heard the same things that you have just mentioned in regards to Matsie's old teams. Some very strong teams! It's just over the last few years he's not played that same travel schedule he did in the past with his teams in the 90's. Maybe finances, not as strong of a team, or just lack of parents comittment are most likely the reasons for the Longshots lack of a strong schedule over the last few years. Just a thought. Look at the teams schedules from last season and the Schaumburg Seminoles, and Orland Sparks did alot of traveling around the country. The Sparks and maybe the Magic were the only two teams that came close to the Seminoles spring and summer schedule. These teams should be commended for their strength of schedule. P.S. Smokey you're correct though in that Matsie had some monster teams in the 90's.

I want to also mention that the 15 year old Tinley Park Bulldogs coached by Jeff Kennedy will have a very good team this upcoming year. Alot of the kids on that team are attending the same Highschool. I know this topic should probasbly be in another catagory. Oh well.

Powehitter. I read the usasportsrankings web site, and my son was involved with elite travel teams. You talk about strength of schedule, traveling, etc. Many of these programs have lost site of what should be the goal... providing a fun and positive experience, improving the quality of the players character as well as their baseball skills. The Seminoles are going through quality players at an ever increasing pace. The program may be succeeding by many standards, but for whose benefit? Why do so many top players quit? What good does it do individual kids to have a revolving door of top players? Keep recruiting to get better and win more nationally recognized tournaments. It is nice for the players that happen to be on the team at the time, but they could be the next to go. Playing with and against the best does help, there is no question about it. But, what is the cost to the individual player?

I think the Berwyn Bulldogs is the type of team that does a great job. All kids from a small area, they stay together, play good fundamental beseball, and sometimes beat the big guys.

bbdad1954. I think it's cool for local teams such as Berwyn to have a good local team. That's not a national team though. There's not to many teams like a Berwyn team. If you were on USA Sports Rankings you would've noticed that the Georgia Roadrunners added seven new players this year. All the top teams seem to keep a core of their top players together and then make some changes as well as some players going elsewhere. It's the nature of top travel baseball. You can't blame teams like the Roadrunners, Seminoles, certain Florida teams, and others to keep improving their roster each year. These teams play in all the so called "Showcase" tourneys and the best players want to play on these teams. I think most travel teams recruit. They just don't have as much success as these and other certain travel teams do. I know in Florida, the top teams have atleast 50% turnover every year. Each team is a different situation.

Also, my older sons team always had atleast five new players on his team every year for over five full seasons, leading all the way up to Highschool. I think there's two types of travel baseball. They should be divided into two different catagories. High caliber baseball on elite teams and programs. These teams are for for players and parents that want to travel and play high caliber baseball. Then there's another catagory for good local teams that aren't competing in those type of tournaments. Both approaches work. It's about playing baseball and getting better. I respect both catagories, and think they both provide good opportunities for everyone.

Powerhitter, what you are saying is absolutely correct. The top travel teams recruit from wide area, have turnover, and are always trying to improve their roster. What I am saying, is by them doing that, who are the managers trying to benefit? What is the motivation? To help the kids or win national tournaments for their own ago or probably some of these guys do it for profit. I don't think that recycling kids does the kids much good.

The Roadrunners are the flavor of the month. Last year it was Beaver Valley Red.

At least what Top Tier does is out in the open. They have a coaching facility, travel teams, and a high school ratings magazine, and run showcases. It is a baseball organization that makes money by using one aspect og their program to build the other. As long as they are coaching and improving the kids, I have no problem with it.

bballdad1954. I think the Roadrunners probably provide strong competition, coaching, and national exposure and that's why they're probably what you say the flavor of the month or year this year. I really do commend teams like them, the Seminoles, certain Florida teams like I've already mentioned. The players on these teams get to experience baseball at such high caliber play. I don't know to much about the Top Tier program you mentioned. Although what I do know is they recruit more than anyone with also a very high turnover on their teams each year. I think last year was their first year if I'm correct in having a 14 year old team. They seemed to be very low key and didn't play alot of good teams. I'm sure their program is very good. Most teams that have an entire program have strong ties and a good foundation. For the record, I think the Georgia Roadrunners only have one team, and not a program. Anyways, good talking with you. Back to work.

The Schaumburg Seminoles are a national power? In what age group and since when?

The Seminoles have been the class of Illinois for the last two to three seasons. They've been done well in some big out of state tournaments over the years. Their 13u team last year achieved many awards on a national level. For an Illinois team they've done well and have won some big tournaments. I know the Georgia Roadrunners, Knoxville Yard, Cincy Flames and many other high profile teams were entered in a big national tourney in Illinois hosted by the Seminoles this year. The Seminoles won the championship with a perfect record, and they defeated many very good out of state teams. The Orland Sparks, Top Tier, and Downers Grove also made a strong showing in this tournament winning some games. Illinois was well represented in that tournament over Memorial Weekend. I think Illinois has alot of good baseball teams. The Seminoles are one of them, but there's many more. If these teams were given the opportunity they would have a chance also. I've always said Illinois baseball can stand on it's own.

I meant to say they've been doing well in some big tournaments throughout the seasons. For Midwest teams they're considered one of the best teams. I think they've deserved that label. I know Mr. Simek well, his son will be on the Seminoles for his second season this year. He said it was the best season his son had in his travel ball career. Great competition, good coaching, and good players on the entire team. The Seminoles aren't afraid to lose. They'll play anyone anywhere and anytime. That's what's impressive about them. They lose games just like any other really good team, but they come right back with a big win. Look at the National Champion Georgia Roadrunners. They lost 22 games this year, but played the best as well all season long. To try to be the best you have to play the best. Now there's a quote. P.S. Seminoles, Diamondbacks, and Sparks look out for this Tinley Park team in 06. They're going to be good.

I may be a bit older than some of you guys out there but when my sons played ball the Seminoles were a very weak organization and the teams at my sons' ages were really bad. Have they changed their hierarchy and philosophy? When did they become a powerhouse?

I had the same experience just a few years ago Benchwarmer ......they were relagated to the lower division of the MSBL when we palyed in that league.......Teams like Rolling Meadows, Palatine Travelers, McHenry Hurricanes, Barrington Travelers and Glenview Blaze all domianted teams like them. I think it is likely that the Seminoles have a good coach at a specific age group and that is why that team does well.

I can't speak for teams years ago. I think in the 90's Bob Savada coached some Seminole teams. I just know over the last few years the Seminoles have had some very good teams at one specific age group moving up each season. The SPBL was put together a few years ago. A very good league. My son's Chicago team has played the Seminoles and some other top Illinois teams over the last two seasons. The Seminoles have a very good team, and are a well coached team. Those guys play everyone, and anywhere in the country. I remember the Tinley Park team giving them a very good game last year. They felt like they won even though the Seminoles won by I think it was three runs.

To show you how old I am I have never heard of the SPBL. What does it stand for?

Benchwarmer, the SPBL stands for the Suburban Power Baseball League. Alot of those teams you mentioned from years ago are now in the SPBL. The Barrington team, I think Palatine was in the league for two years. The McHenry Hurricanes and Lake Zurich Cougars also left the McHenry League to play better competition and join the SPBL. Many Chicago teams including my sons team this year joined the league. It's a really good league that was put together by the Seminoles around four years ago.

I will say the Seminoles impressed many in the Las Vegas Fall Nationals a few weeks ago. The Arizona Panthers are one of our top teams in Arizona. This team has also put three of the top players from the Chandler Express on their team. The Seminoles and Panthers had two one run games against each other. The Seminoles won the most important one though in the playoff round. The Panthers assistant coach said he was very impresed with the Seminoles lineup.

I was reading some of these posts, and someone wrote that the Georgia Road Runners don't have a program just one team. So what's your point? Teams that have a number of different teams in their program is a good thing if the program is successful. If a team like the Road Runners only have one team they still are one of the best teams in the country. I guess I didn't understand the point stated that they only had one team. Is this some kind of Illinois language? If so, that's why I'm missing the point.

The point as I see it is that many parents would like to align with a "program" instead of a "team".

Having been there, it can be difficult, especially when you have more than one ballplayer...to constantly be seeking the next good team.

In the end, I certainly understand your thought process. It's inevitable that in terms of fit and comfortability a parent will make changes in affiliations over the years. The biggest issue is whether or not a "team" like the GA. Roadrunners will be together as they grow up...or does the "team" stay at a particular age level. One year and done,even at the highest levels is what can turn out to be logistically difficult for the average family.

If I were to pick the best experience my sons have been part of, it would be a mix of "programs/teams". Definetely the best experience is when everything clicks at the 10 year
old level and the team and coaching staff stay together for several years.

Baseball1985. I mentioned the Roadrunners had only one team, and not a program. I didn't say it to make a point, just to mention they're a good team, not a program. They've been done for certain years, and then put another team together recently according to their teams history. Soxnole, I think if a player can play on a team which also has a complete program that always helps. You make a good point.

Powerhitter, you must be from the Clubbers or Windy City, the two Chicago teams that play in the SPBL. For the rest of you, the Seminoles were a better than average team when they were 12 year olds. They had one team. Each year they recruited the best players, and now are almost a 15 year old all-star team. They continue to add top players, even from out of state. The top 15 year olds that aren't with them now, were at one time. Very few of the studs haven't been there or are there now. They have added other age groups for next year, but their center piece is the 15's who are built to win national tournaments. The other teams may start out with top players because of the rep of the 15 year old team.

bballdad1954,
What National Tournaments have the Seminoles won and why aren't these top 15 year olds with them anymore?

They have a web site that I am sure lists all their accomplishments. I don't know why kids leave the team. Most of the players and parents I have talked to are classy and don't bash the organization or its leadership. I can surmise many reasons, cut for a better player, lack of playing time, too much time and expense, burned out with all the games (about 140+ this year). I don't know. I just have saked the question that with all the turnover of players, who is the recruiting and building of the team for? The players that happen to be on the team when they do win a tournament or the ego of the coach? Many say they get a great experience playing on the team. I don't doubt it. Maybe just doing it for a season or part of a season is enough of the big time experience. I am not judging what they do or how, I am just interested if people think thise teams benefit kids. Many, including powerhitter2 think it does. I like kids to be taught and coached, but I see the value in playing with and against top competition. Maybe I just question where the line is in traveling, games, and moving kids in and out to improve an "organizthion" for the long term benefit of the who? The coach?

Talent Watcher, the Seminoles won their tournament this year that they hosted. I think it was one of the strongest and most well run tourneys around at the 14u level this year. They also won the Super NIT to qualify for Disney. They didn't do to well in Disney this year, but alot of teams could say that. I know at 13u level they won that USSSA Elite tourney in Ohio to also go to Disney. There a good team. I think like all good teams there's always changes to improve your team, and also people leaving. I know their best player over the years is Mike Olp. I think this will be his fourth or fifth year on the team. He's a great player. I think his main sport is football, but he's an awesome baseball player. It sounds like the team also just won the Triple Crown Fall Nationals in Las Vegas. I guess that would be considerd the 2006 15u team. A team that I was very impressed with this year was the Columbus Cobras from Ohio. I seen one of their games over Memorial Weekend in the Seminoles tournament.