Is something wrong with my son? I feel like I'm missing something

@ABSORBER posted:

Your son is not alone. His goal at the PG National shout be to outwork everyone else, especially the other uncommitted catchers who are attending (there will be grade 9 and below plus ungraded attendees as well). Here are all the 2024 catchers graded 9.5 or higher:

All but two of the committed players are P5 (UCONN and HPU). Most are attending the PG National -- all were invited (probably all 9.5+ get invited). Note there is at least one grade 10 who is uncommitted. I'm sure he's had offers...

I felt strongly your son would get some offers sometime this summer and after compiling this list I am even more convinced.

This is a most well informed and thought out reply, I appreciate it. I hope to see him get married up with a good school soon!

@Giff, that is a very honest post that indicates a healthy perspective on your son’s situation. I have some comments that may or may not be helpful. But I’m going to make them in hopes that they are. Here goes. I agree with you that your son is ranked too high by the scouting services. Their evaluations are mostly done by non-baseball people that pretend to be knowledgeable. They aren’t capable of evaluating mechanics and movements so they lean heavily on metrics and their rankings reflect that. Much of the public is misled by their narrative and even a lot of people on this board believe (or did at one time) that reaching certain metric milestones is certain to get you recruited. Your son is living proof that it’s not true. I have seen video of your son and so have some coaches that I trust. I believe that your son has a lot of potential but he just hasn’t realized it yet. Because of that I would advise against the service academies. Even Merchant Marines. You don’t go to service academies to play sports. You go there to serve your country. I expect big gains from your son during his freshman year in college. If that were to happen at a service academy I don’t know that he would be able to leave and take advantage of it. I think the JuCo route makes the most sense. But not at Amarillo College. Best of luck!

@Giff, I'm going to agree and disagree with @adbono. Yes, you do choose a service academy because you have a desire to serve your country. What a great way to serve AND play D1 baseball! The same can be said of players who choose an Ivy school (or any other high academic school). You make this choice because you want the very best education (and take that with a grain of salt--you attend for the connections) and an opportunity to play the sport you love (and serve your country in the case of a service academy--not to mention college paid for by Uncle Sam). You use baseball to get what you want. There is nothing wrong with this. Take the draft that just completed. Almost all of these players will be out of baseball in the next 2-8 years. Then where will they be? Their choice was to play baseball and have an opportunity to play at the highest level. It wasn't to get the best education or serve their country. There is nothing wrong with this either; they freely made that choice.

Sure, perhaps your son is ranked too highly... But give some credit to PG, they've been doing this for while. Everyone pays the same fee to get a grade so there's no incentive to rank or grade a player too highly. Why pay more showcase $$ if you already got a 10 grade and a top 100 ranking?

And your son's 9.5 grade? Given by "non-baseball people that pretend to be knowledgeable?" I guess we would have to say the same for the MLB scouts that reached out to your son. What do they know?

Your son's grade seems to be correct. PG has been doing this for a long time. Just go back and look at prior years rankings and see how many of the top 100 were drafted. Most of them... Metrics don't lie. You can't teach metrics. Many parents on this site get worked up because their son hits or pitches like nobody else but because they don't have the necessary metrics (arm strength, exit velocity, speed, size, etc.) they get overlooked. Because these are the things that scouts notice. They may not be able to help a college coach win the championship but those coaches will sure roll the dice to see if it works out! MLB is no different!

Just tell you son to keep grinding; he'll get there. Tell him to go where he wants to go and use baseball to get there.

But.... Also have him work on arm strength. As I said, metrics don't lie--this is what he lacks. His pop time will increase along with an increase in velocity.

@ABSORBER posted:

But.... Also have him work on arm strength. As I said, metrics don't lie--this is what he lacks. His pop time will increase along with an increase in velocity.

Great take, appreciate all. This is 100% what my son and I have been talking about during these road trips-- arm strength. His arm is far better than most HS catchers so sometimes he forgets what its like competing with the big dogs. Catchers velocities at PG National were in the low to mid 80's, my son was 75 but has thrown a 79 in different conditions. Nevertheless, I can see very clearly through his metrics that there was ZERO improvement in arm strength between last summer and this summer--and that has to change. We talked about Tom House and some of the J-Band programs. We have been pretty good about long toss (I cant throw it nearly as far as him so he's playing long toss, and I'm playing 'please let this ball roll 100 yards'"). I wish I could afford that Texas Baseball Ranch or something more high level like one of those throwing labs at Wake Forest, but money is always a limitation.

My son is a pitcher and he did the Texas Baseball Ranch program and driveline. While these were beneficial in their own way, I would say the main thing that helped him gain velo was the weight room .

@Giff posted:

Update #2 (PG National and WWBA 17U Nat'l Championship):

The follow-on games saw him overmatched. There was a kid who was 6-7 or 8 from TN throwing in the mid-90's and most of the boys there had never seen anything like that (I think he hit 97 at one point and had good command). There were definitely some studs there but regardless, he didn't do much to garner attention.

In the aftermath the Twins, Guardians and Brewers scouts' reached out and asked for his schedule and the Twins had him fill out a questionnaire. We also received a message from U of Cincinnati, U of Alabama, AFA (again), Naval Academy (again), and Pepperdine. Alabama was out of nowhere, asked for the WWBA schedule and haven't heard anything else.

My son is also talking to U of Chicago who was at the Stanford Camp. Both Chicago and USMMA started the Zoom call by saying, "we know you're probably talking to a ton of D1's but we want you to consider..." We didn't have the heart to tell them that we aren't talking to any. I found it odd that they assumed we were given my concerns I've laid out to y'all but apparently these DIII coaches saw something in him.

Thanks for the update, a few things to add on

1. If he's feeling overmatched - it's not nothing. There is a difference between going to these events and having good ABs barreling balls up without results and having ABs where you feel like a hit was an accident more than it was a result of him being all over the pitcher. Some of the schools you mentioned, Alabama, Pepp, Cincy. That is big boy baseball, every pitcher they see is going to be low to high 90s and they're going to have 3-4 more years of experience than what he's facing now. To play D1 baseball at a high level at least - you need to hit high 80s low 90s pitching all the time. That is why all these coaches go down there for a week - they need to see these bats against quality pitching. People can say what they want about the quality of the WWBA, it's hard to get consistent good pitching locally, and going down there for a week is better than seeing 78 at some local tournament. Now this doesn't mean that your son won't get there eventually, but does he want to go play in the Big 12 or the SEC and find out he needed another year or two to get there?

2. Alabama has a new HC and I would imagine quite a few decommits and anticipation of more transferring out within the next 12 months.

3. This is not meant to discourage but more to put it into perspective. If you have 7 mid major and 1 P5 offer which level do you think is more appropriate for his playing abilities? If 8 D3s are constantly calling/coming to see him and 2 D1s rarely reach out/don't answer every text/email or in a timely manner which set of schools do you think would be better suited for him? The point is the offers speak for themselves.

One of mine had a bunch of P5 offers for 50% or less and a few mid majors offering close to 100%. The offers tell me he's fishing in the right pond. The other had about 10 mid majors close to 100% and one or 2 P5s who kept him on the back burner until they made 25 and 30% offers? Which level  would he be better suited for?

Giff:

My concern is to learn what adjustments did your son make in the "batters box" before and during his at bat with the 6'7" pitcher.

What size bat did he use? Did he "choke" the bat? Did he stand deeper in the batter's box? Did he stand "on or off" the plate?

What mental adjustments? Every situation is a learning opportunity.

Bob

Update #3 and last on this thread.

I missed out on the final consolation game which turned out to be very important. Son went 3-3 yesterday with a bomb, double and single. Pepperdine and Coastal Carolina were both present and talked to my son before the game. They were both there for the 3 run HR after which Pepperdine left.

My advisor later talked to Pepp and they are making an offer that we will hear, I think, tomorrow. This is huge news.

His stat line for the week after yesterday improved dramatically. .353 with a 1.118 OPS, 4 2B, a HR— and all around solid play behind the plate.

i think the ball is rolling now. It is definitely a “mid-major” ball. Like PA Baseball mentioned, and I completely agree, I’m trying to read where the offers are coming from in large part to help me make an assessment. He has gotten the P5 attention (Alabama, Cincy, even Texas Tech here locally showed interest for a while). I think the lions share of his interest, and the offers I think are going to come, will be mid-major. Right now we only have one D3 offer that I would say is in stone. I am not including JuCo for this discussion but they have been reaching out, and I am a firm believer in the potential surrounding the JuCo route… I did it myself LA Harbor JuCo to Cal.

Damndest thing though. I was born and raised in SoCal, moved to Texas to raise my family and escape the oppressive housing market (and other reasons), and now, with no specific plan to do so, it looks like I’ll now have two kids in college back in SoCal. I’ll post a separate thread when he commits, which may be soon. As always, appreciate the thoughts and advice!

@Giff posted:

to help me make an assessment. He has gotten the P5 attention (Alabama, Cincy, even Texas Tech here locally showed interest for a while). I think the lions share of his interest, and the offers I think are going to come, will be mid-major. Right now we only have one D3 offer that I would say is in stone. I am not including JuCo for this discussion but they have been reaching out.

So I'm going to raise one point that I haven't seen addressed — your note above says "to help me make an assessment" and "we have only D3 offer". It's not you, it's not we. It's your son.

What does he want to do? Where does he want to go? You also mention what people said on Zoom calls. My son had tons of those calls, we didn't participate. He had to see how he felt about the coaches and the program and build his own relationship.

When he got a P5 offer, we talked to the coach to understand the offer, and that was it. I talked to a couple of his local coaches just asking if he had a legit shot at playing, but in the end it didn't matter. I told him I wanted to talk about it, he came home that night and said, I told them I'm coming, what did you want to talk about?

It was his decision. It needs to be your sons. it's cool and exciting to get the big dogs lining up, but your job needs to be helping your son keep it all in perspective and make the right choice for him, not getting carried away in the hoopla.

That may not be what's happening, just seemed like something to watch out for.

Enjoy the ride and have great fun along the way.

@Iowamom23 posted:

So I'm going to raise one point that I haven't seen addressed — your note above says "to help me make an assessment" and "we have only D3 offer". It's not you, it's not we. It's your son.

What does he want to do? Where does he want to go? You also mention what people said on Zoom calls. My son had tons of those calls, we didn't participate. He had to see how he felt about the coaches and the program and build his own relationship.

When he got a P5 offer, we talked to the coach to understand the offer, and that was it. I talked to a couple of his local coaches just asking if he had a legit shot at playing, but in the end it didn't matter. I told him I wanted to talk about it, he came home that night and said, I told them I'm coming, what did you want to talk about?

It was his decision. It needs to be your sons. it's cool and exciting to get the big dogs lining up, but your job needs to be helping your son keep it all in perspective and make the right choice for him, not getting carried away in the hoopla.

That may not be what's happening, just seemed like something to watch out for.

Enjoy the ride and have great fun along the way.

Ha-ha, I have to disagree! Unless he's getting a full-ride (not likely), parents (who will be paying) need to participate in the decision!

@ABSORBER posted:

Ha-ha, I have to disagree! Unless he's getting a full-ride (not likely), parents (who will be paying) need to participate in the decision!

I agree. We talked to him about finances, grades, majors, etc. We went on college visits. I did research on the various institutions and we talked about whether they were a good fit. We had conversations with him about his conversations but did not participate with weekly calls with coaches. Literally talked to the head coach once — when he made his offer. When it came down to it, it was his decision. JMO

@ABSORBER posted:

Ha-ha, I have to disagree! Unless he's getting a full-ride (not likely), parents (who will be paying) need to participate in the decision!

Every kid, the relationship with their parents and financial situation is different. I believe that from 13 to 18 us parents transition from a position of power to one of influence, and that how you manage that transition (gradual or like a switch) can impact your longterm relationship. My youngest was fiercely independent, while his older brother was way more collaborative - the going to college process was very different for them.

Thankfully, assuming no abuse we get to mess our kids up they way we choose - I always felt I was in competition with the wife in who would be the biggest topic of their future therapy sessions. Not sure who won...

I do agree with @ABSORBER, if the parents have a significant financial stake then they should be part of the discussion.

@Giff posted:

Damndest thing though. I was born and raised in SoCal, moved to Texas to raise my family and escape the oppressive housing market (and other reasons), and now, with no specific plan to do so, it looks like I’ll now have two kids in college back in SoCal. I’ll post a separate thread when he commits, which may be soon. As always, appreciate the thoughts and advice!

Congrats on a bit of stress reduction and some great opportunities for your son! But don't get too comfortable, the stress fest continues - at least it did for me... lol!

@Giff posted:

Update #3 and last on this thread.

I missed out on the final consolation game which turned out to be very important. Son went 3-3 yesterday with a bomb, double and single. Pepperdine and Coastal Carolina were both present and talked to my son before the game. They were both there for the 3 run HR after which Pepperdine left.

My advisor later talked to Pepp and they are making an offer that we will hear, I think, tomorrow. This is huge news.

His stat line for the week after yesterday improved dramatically. .353 with a 1.118 OPS, 4 2B, a HR— and all around solid play behind the plate.

i think the ball is rolling now. It is definitely a “mid-major” ball. Like PA Baseball mentioned, and I completely agree, I’m trying to read where the offers are coming from in large part to help me make an assessment. He has gotten the P5 attention (Alabama, Cincy, even Texas Tech here locally showed interest for a while). I think the lions share of his interest, and the offers I think are going to come, will be mid-major. Right now we only have one D3 offer that I would say is in stone. I am not including JuCo for this discussion but they have been reaching out, and I am a firm believer in the potential surrounding the JuCo route… I did it myself LA Harbor JuCo to Cal.

Damndest thing though. I was born and raised in SoCal, moved to Texas to raise my family and escape the oppressive housing market (and other reasons), and now, with no specific plan to do so, it looks like I’ll now have two kids in college back in SoCal. I’ll post a separate thread when he commits, which may be soon. As always, appreciate the thoughts and advice!

My daughter and I were visiting the softball coach at Boston College in January. It was cold and windy as we walked across the parking lot. My daughter turned to me and said, “Dad, what were you thinking when you moved us from Southern California? Does anything here look like UCSB?”

We lived halfway between LA and Santa Barbara. She played in Florida.

wait until you see what 50% of pepperdine is.................

I read through this young man's PG profile.  They graded him as 6.5 and 7.5 x 2  just a few years ago when he was 5ft10-6ft/180lbs.  I have no doubt that he's worked very hard to get to where he is now.  His dad was a former high level college player so I'm sure he had good instruction as a youth when these grades were given.  Now all of a sudden PG has an epiphany that he is a 9.5?  If they are so good as a scouting service, shouldn't they have been able to tell when he was a freshman how good he would become?

I know a 16 yo kid who did a PG showcase as a 14u.  They graded him a 6.5.  He now runs a 6.5  60  and is a heck of a player.   Come on... 6.5.  I could even tell back then that was preposterous.   He was a minimum 8. 

I almost think they do this on purpose to make you feel you have to come back and do it again. errr...  I'm sorry.... pay it again. 

@Dadbelly2023, you are correct in your observations and your criticism. PG does not employ real scouts. They pay HS kids minimum wage to watch games, take video, and record basic data. The HS kid sends that info to an older kid that creates a catchy write up and blasts it out on social media. Showcases are done the same way. Rankings are based on word of mouth, metrics, and (to some degree) an assessment of performance at PG events. And they have brainwashed the public into believing that their opinions are really important. It is all a money grab. IMO 80% of players don’t benefit one bit from attending PG events.

I kind of like the PG events.  Didn't see any highschool kids running it.  Saw some college kids that currently play, but they looked to be more of technicians.  Saw some other coaches there as well.  Obviously no one needs to go to those, but I don't think it hurts either.  Especially if you don't have someone that knows someone.....

A kid I coached from 13u to 15yo in 16u was graded a 10 by PG. He committed to an annually high ranked P5 program. His highly regarded coach referred to him as potentially the best recruit he’s ever snagged.

What the father did was spent every dollar possible to train the kid for showcases. At fifteen he looked physically like Josh Hamilton.

But from coaching the kid for three years I knew he didn’t have the mental makeup. This kid led our team in me telling him to shake it off and focus.

In 17u my son and this kid also played on the same team. My son became good friends with a teammate that played high school ball with the kid. The friend told my son the “stud” accumulated all his stats against cupcakes and didn’t hit in the big games. But this stud had been trained to death to excel in showcases. I thought the major PG tournaments would expose the kid. I never understood how they didn’t. The kid was handed a spot on the regional Area Code team. It’s the one thing that ticked my son off since he didn’t make the team (still great exposure just to tryout).

When this class of 17u players headed for college I told a friend (son was also on the 17u team) the “stud” will play his way out of the lineup by conference play every year. For three years the kid was handed a starting position and on the bench by conference play.

Then, after junior year and I don’t understand why, after the draft he was offered a free agent contract for short season with a MLB organization. The kid had the look. But this was when I started wondering who his father knew. He didn’t get past Low A in three seasons.

@Dadof3 posted:

I kind of like the PG events.  Didn't see any highschool kids running it.  Saw some college kids that currently play, but they looked to be more of technicians.  Saw some other coaches there as well.  Obviously no one needs to go to those, but I don't think it hurts either.  Especially if you don't have someone that knows someone.....

This is where my philosophy of the best recruiting method is have a travel coach who has credibility and contacts and can presell the player. Once past the top one hundred players at a major PG event the next 900 can blend in. On any given day you can’t tell 200 from 1000 in three or four at bats.

My son never did a PG showcase. But from attending PG tournaments and his travel coach selling him he had a 9.5 score. I felt it was high. But hundreds of players receive 9.5. Keep in mind PG scores is how they see potential not reality.