I kicked a kid of the team on Sunday...

No way does this kid come back---not on my team anyway--if he does he sits


You , as the coach, cannot let a kid talk to you that way

I think you'll find another #3 catcher now. Might have been easier to do that at the start of the season.

The kid was out of line. Period. Those kind of actions/words have to bring consequences.

If he is allowed to come back, it will be after apologizing (in front of the team) to the team and the coach. And, as TR suggests, sitting some as a penalty.

First reaction may be to boot off permanently. But perhaps allowing him to return under appropriate conditions might help him learn a lesson.

And I would tell the dad that the kid needs to be the one doing the talking, although the dad can be present during the conversation.

Could this situation been avoided? Possibly.

I am a little more lenient than most but I would need a public apology in front of the team and parents to let the kid back on the team. If he does it again adios. Kids make mistakes. Twice is a habit.
If he has a history of this kind of thing, adios.

Maybe the kid learns a life lesson and becomes a better person and player for somebody else.

No way he comes back.

In State championship game U12 kid has a melt down and starts yelling at the coach after popping out and not hustling to first base.

Coach tells him to leave. We were up 8-3 in the fifth inning and had to finish with 8 since subs had already gone in and come out.

We go on to lose and it was still the right thing to do. This kid had issues all season and ultimately the team completely disbanded.

Support the good kids. Do not let one kid bring the entire team down.

I know this is for highschool kids but I thought this real life story might offer some insight.

Bill

If he has been a dedicated baseball player, I guess I would also be more lenient. I would first ask the dad what the problems were. Then I would have the boy call me and explain his situation and why he acted like that. Finally, if I felt he had unusual pressures, I would let him come back only if he gets in front of and apologizes to the team and the coaching staff with at least a short explaination of why he blewup and why he feels he is better prepared to handle any new situation that may come up.

I would also think about getting a #2 catcher that was not going to miss half the games. I have in the past seen some very good kids and dedicated baseball players that became resentful of players that are only part of the team on a part time basis because they want to commit to doing something else. To me, these types of situations can put pressure on the team.

Just curious, goMo. Do you think it will be good or bad for the team if this kid comes back? How do they feel about this? Do you think they would accept his apology, be glad to have him back, and move on, or do you think allowing him to come back will cause resentment and maybe disrespect for you as coach?

imo, thank the dad for the phone call breaking the ice -

then only you and the player should meet and see if the situation can be resolved.
if issues can be worked out .. Great!
if not, at least it was face to face & not thru a third party (dad)

Thanks for all the replies! Great advice as usual!

Here's what I told the dad last night. I said that if he had asked me Sunday night, I would've said no way he comes back. But after sleeping on it for a night and talking to my coaches, I decided that, as some of you said, if he *sincerely* is sorry for what happened and wants to come back, he could under the following 4 conditions: 1) he apologizes to me face-to-face, 2) he apologizes to the team face-to-face, 3) he accepts his role as emergency catcher, and 4) he gets benched for at least a game.

As much as I may not personally like the kid as much as some others on the team (selfish, arrogant, etc.), he is a kid and deserves a 2nd chance, and only a 2nd chance. I think its an important message that I send to both him and the other kids.

btw, after he walked out, the other kids really seemed to rally around this. They were saying "let him go, he's not a team-player" kind of stuff. They even huddled before going out in the field (without me leading it) and I was very proud to see them react in a positive way.

I don't think he's going to come back. Actually, even though he's one of my best hitters, I don't want him back, but I think as a coach and adult, I need to do the right thing..

I'll keep you posted. Our next game is Saturday.

goMO,

Just out of curiosity, what did you do for a catcher in that game? If it were someone else, that kid would have to get his second chance with a different team. You probably did the right thing, but who knows about that stuff until it's too late. Best of luck.

the kid is a hs jr. the first and only phone call should be from him. it's his battle.

then i would ask the team how they feel? it's their team too. it may just fire them up and lend some credability to stick by what you said. it is very difficult to control what you say in those situations. not an easy fix either way. but i'd say no.maybe next year.

"If you leave now and let your teammates down like this, don't bother coming back". .

a good rule to go by. say what you mean,mean what you say.

A factor to consider is the kid's history.

If he was really a pretty good kid going through a tough time, then he should have no prior offenses, so to speak. If so, then I think he should be given the opportunity to apologize to you and the team, and then to put it behind you and play ball. If he really is a boy with character, he can fess up in public before he expects forgiveness.

From some of the things you've said, though, it sounds like this is not a first offense. So I'd be reluctant to let him come back. I think it undermines your position in front of your team.

In either event, a dad cannot apologize for a son. An apology is only meaningful when it comes from the offending party. Until the boy comes to you, you have nothing in front of you to consider.

Final note: I don't endorse your letting yourself get drawn into a shouting match with a teenager in front of other teenagers. I have to assume you were provoked by his use of profanity. The best example would've been to show firm resolve with a calm demeanor. But I'll grant you, easier said than done in the heat of the moment.

Prior history need tob e considered here. If it's his first time then the other guys would probably be willing to let him back on.

If the other guys don't want him then why let him? It's going to make the other guys mad and you may lose their respect.

Just because he is having a few problems this month doesn't excuse what he did. We all have problems we have to deal with in a positive and mature manner. If he was having problems then he (or even his dad) should have said something. Then you could have been aware of moods and maybe even helped him with his problems. He chose to keep quiet - that doesn't excuse the behavior.

It's not your job to teach him a lesson through a second chance. It's his fathers job. His dad should say "listen junior you messed up. You don't talk to anyone that way regardless of their age, position or your mood. It's not acceptable and their are repercussions for those actions". Why should you have to teach him? Your job is to coach him. If you can happen to teach a life lesson through coaching then that's great but what his father does in this situation will do much more in his future attitude than what you do.

This is getting interesting.. I received a text from one kid and an email from another saying they want to have a meeting with the team before our next game.
just so you guys can see, here's the email from my second baseman (smallest but toughest kid on the team - a real leader).

Mr. B,
Mike S.and I have been talking a lot about the team and we decided its time we take more responsibility of it. Personally, we would like to sit the team down before Saturday's game and let everyone know we're here to play. We are not here to complain or fight. We agreed that our team is easily good enough to make the championship and win it. However, everyone need to be willing to cut the **** out, and play hard. I personally talked to Joe and he apologized to me and I know for a fact, that he will also apologize to you and the team. However, if you decide to let him back on the team, we would like to take a team vote. I personally am going to start working with Mike on pitching because I'm sure we need all the help we can get in the bullpen. Let me know how this goes over with you. -Tommy

Jerry - forgot to address your question. My starting catcher went back in the game for the bottom of the 6th. he was hurting, but he did it. didn't complain even though he was in obvious pain.

If you let him back on the team - instead of making him sit out several games make him catch like 5 games as punishment.

I would not let him come back. He has to learn that in life, you pay for your mistakes. He wants to only play first base, he needs to find a team where that can happen. IMO, baseball is more of a team sport than any other and one bad apple can do a lot of damage. As someone alluded to earlier, the #2 Catcher would have to go as well next season if I was planning on keeping the team together. I would want everyone on the same page and focused on the same goals.

Boot him. Maybe just maybe with some luck and punishment he shall learn, i hate kids like that.

quote:

by 2705: instead of making him sit out several games make him catch like 5 games as punishment.

sheesh,
most seem unwilling to work thru a minor situation w/a teen full of testosterone (*presumably natural), and help him learn a life lesson ...


some would suggest this kid has shown he "has what it takes" to make it -
ala Strawberry, Bonds, Belle, Bradley, Kent, Pierzynski, Everett, et-all ..

not only do they get a free pass - they are handsomely rewarded for their behavior

oops, I left out Piersol

GoMO,
Why did the dad call you to apologize?
Why didnt it come from the player?

Who really still wants to be on your team,...the dad or the kid??

Just a few questions for thought.

TG

I am with you---the key to me is that the other players rallied around each other after the kid left--- a team does not need a rotten apple in the barrel--it can cause an infection in the entire team


I am big on chemistry among our players---our guys all hang out together and trust me we have a annual mish mosh of kids---our spanish speaking kids even help the non spanish speaking kids with their spanish homework---it is great to see the kids interact and I think it is key to the team's success


BEE


The kids today need to be kicked in the butt when they are wrong---they are coddled too much--this is a prime example with Daddy calling and not the kid--- we need to go back to the old days when Daddy's belt rules

I will say what old timers like myself might say. this stuff did not happen years ago and if it did it would be a no brainer. No discussion good bye Bac in the neanthedral days when coaches coached and players played there was a kid on our JV team who we saw potential as a catcher. He made the team but he did not want to catch. We tried to convince him but he refused. He quit. the next year he showed up again and was with the varsity for tryouts. He had ability. I told him in no uncertai terms that he was to do what he was told to do as was the other players. We workked on his catching skills and he backed up our starting catcher. Senior year rolled around and he was our starting catcher and made second team all league but in the back of my mind because of his "I dont want to catch mentality" as a sophomore he missed a whole year of working at the position. I am convinced that second team would have been a first team.
Kids do what you let them do. they dont tell you where they are to play you tell them.

Another way to look at this…

Once in a great while, your biggest problem player turns into your most valuable player and biggest supporter.

I had this kind of confrontation with a high school coach years ago when I was a sophomore in HS. (Many years ago) I was a bad apple and still not sure if I walked off or got thrown off or combination of both. Anyway it completely destroyed me for awhile and to this day I have no respect for that coach. Not because he kicked me off, but he never again talked to me or tried to straighten out my head.

Why should he have done that? Because he was the adult and I was the young kid.

I did survive, thanks to several other coaches who decided I might be worth saving! I greatly respect those coaches to this day for the time they spent trying to straighten me out and for everything they taught me about not only baseball, but being a decent person.

Being the devil's advocate--what if the kid's home life was such that this was the norm? Maybe Dad and Mom find this acceptable and that is how they treat each other at home. I've seen it before. Shouldn't an adult (coach, teacher etc...) teach this child the "proper" way to handle situation such as making the call himself, accepting responsiblity (no excuses), and punishment?

I've heard many of stories about the one person that made a difference in the life of someone that may be going down the wrong path. Wouldn't it be great to be the one that "made the difference?"

I agree that there should be severe punishment for that kind of behavior but if it were your own child would you "kick him out of the family"? No, there are consequences and second chances. Maybe he needs that father figure because dad isn't getting done?

I must be missing something here.

Kid says that he doesn't like to catch.

Coach says that he's going to catch any way.

I think the coach should apologize to the player in front of the team as well as apologize to the team.

The coach should have groomed another catcher instead of putting this kid on the cross.

How coincidental that after kicking the clean up hitter off the team that someone realizes he is an integral part of the team.

Some of these coaches need a good swift kick in the pants.

As an adult to invite a situation that you know will be troublesome is just plain stupid.

If there was another player on the bench while all this was going on, the coach should also apologize to that player in front of the team for showing complete indifference to him.

Adults should have better sense than this and act like adults.

.

AGAIN I ask---why are coaches the ones to save the world---on our team we have kids with home environments that you can not even imagine but never ever will one of them mouth off to any of the coaches in the manner this kid did

The problem today is that there is always an excuse and to me that is nothing but a "crock"---used to be people took care of their own laundry -- now they want everyone else to do it for them

In this instance, the coach acted like a kid.

He wanted to get his way and sabotaged the kid.

The coach is wrong.

.

QUINCY

I totally disagree with you---can you use your fancy terms here ?


I have one for you---INSUBORDINATION--no kid talks to a coach that way---NEVER EVER---if you allowit you are less a man that I think you are not to mention the fact that your team will have no respect for

interesting take, Quincy. I appreciate all the various viewpoints.

First, a quick little background. The kid comes from a messy divorce about 5 years ago. mom has re-married. dad is still involved. kid has had anger issues for quite some time (probably understandable).

Yes, he doesn't *like* to catch. but he has in the past, and now only in emergencies. I certainly had plans to have another kid be the 3rd catcher, but he got a bout of tendinitis and couldn't throw. And I only have 12 on my fall roster. So cleanup hitter has caught about 3 times this year (summer/fall). Not too much to ask imo.

Here's where we're at. He's supposed to show up on Saturday before the game to apologize to me and the coaches, as well as the team. Plus Then we'll have a team meeting to discuss how we'll handle this and move forward.

As an adult and a coach, I feel I have to take the higher road and show the kid (and the team) that a second chance is worthwhile. If it were my kid, I'd hope his coach would consider that. Granted, I may not like this kid too much, and it would be alot easier for me to give someone other than him a second chance, but I realize that if I'd do it for one, I should do it for all.

He realizes he's on thin ice with both me and his teammates. let's give him a chance to see how he reacts and see if he can learn/grow from this experience. I think I have already...

I'll let you all know how it works out on saturday.

Do you think that after this escapde of stubborness that the kids respect the coach now?

How many times does the kid have to tell the coach that he has an aversion to playing catcher?

This coach exhibited obvious signs of being an "A,nal Retentive".

Instead of instructing another player as the second catcher, he placed this kid in the crosshairs of the dilemna.

No fair for a coach to be such a plotting sadist looking for an opportunity to get his jollies off by making people do what they do not care to do.

The coach is wrong.

.

Quincy - I didn't get to see your second post where you said I acted like a kid. Did you read my original post? We were in a bind and I needed him to catch an inning. I didn't ask him to jump in front of a speeding train. He's got the background, and in certain situations, he may be called on to do that. If that makes me seem to be acting like a kid, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

a plotting sadist?!!!

I almost spit out my coffee laughing at that one!!

You are either having some fun here, or have to relax a little bit...

Yes, we will have to agree to disagree.

I don't know if there was another kid on the bench, but this whole situation could have been avoided.

.

QUINCY

Only in your mind---again I say it is thinking like yours that has the kids all looking to others for excuses---


A few years back we had a kid who was on the becnh due to a few mental pases--I had told to refocus and he will be back in the lineup---in the 4th inning I aks him to grab a bat and get ready to pinch hit--his answer was simple "I don't feel like it"---my response was even simpler--I didnt send him home I just kept him on the bench for the rest of the tournament----Ironically the kid who did pinch hit got a key hit in our rally as we won the game-- when I congratulated the pich hitter after the game he looked at me and said " Don't thank me--thank the idiot who told you he didn't want to hit. He gave me the chance"

Quincy--you do things your way I will continue to do them my way--I think my way is better for my personality and the personality of our team

goMO,

I'd actually be very interested in hearing how things turn out. Best of luck!

I am willing to wager the kids on the team tell him they do not want him back---been there done that with this type of situation

He didn't like the kid so he set him up.

It would be more honorable to kick him off for being disruptive than create a false scenario.

I'd bet many kids will find another place to play.

I'm not making excuses for the kid, he acted like a kid.

What excuse is there for an adult acting like a kid?

That is the situation here.

.

Quincy

How do you know the situation ?


How can you say he set the kid up?

Quincy,

I coached for a long time and can remember quite a few times that I acted like a kid! There are coaches at every level that sometimes act much worse than a kid.

I've had plenty of players I didn't like. You don't dislike someone for no reason.

I wrote in our college playbook the following...

It's not very important that you like me. What's vitally important is whether or not I like you. You have to go out of your way for that to happen.

And... I've had players I disliked turn into players I liked the most!

The excuse... We are human!

Jerry,

Your comment about yourself awhile ago is eerily similar to my experience. When I was a sophomore, we had a jackarse of a coach. I was stupid at that age, had other priorities, and was talking to some girls by the left field line when he told me to come in. I didn't respond right away and he told me to go to the showers and that I was done. He never spoke to me again..



As for Quincy, although I don't feel the need to respond to his lunacy, I will let you know that my team is about as tight as can be. When we were 13, we broke off from the old coach b/c we were tired of "daddy ball" (his kid was terrible but started at 3rd base every game, making at least 2 errors a game). But the old manager was the president of the league, and well-connected to the Babe Ruth league that we were moving up to. Although I took over the travel team to keep the kids together, he made sure I didn't get to coach in the rec league in Babe Ruth, even though I had won championships two years in a row when we were 11 and 12. He had me blackballed, and when the time came for the kids to pick between staying with me playing travel, or playing with him on the Babe Ruth district team, every single one stayed with me. Since then, we are not allowed on town fields and have to play most of our home games on the road. Now it is 4 years later, and not one kid has left to play Babe Ruth (we play Legion in the summer). They are fiercely loyal to the team, and the parents are too. We have to drive an hour to play a home playoff game away while some 13 yr olds have a practice on the home fields. We are 2nd class citizens in this town to the Babe Ruth league, but it doesn't matter. The former manager is still jealous and resents that we are together, playing better than ever (16-5 this summer, 9-4 so far this fall). We enjoy playing together, have fun, and respect and work at the game. That's probably why this is such a big issue to us. The Babe Ruth's pettiness may box us out of local fields, but all the players are on my team, and will make up 95% of the varsity team in the next two years.

So take your attitude somewhere else. I've worked way too hard over the last few years to keep this team together to listen to your nonsense...