I love animals - but?

You might find this interesting:

Where is the outrage when humans are abused?

Well, he is a bad guy. I am not sure if there is anything to be gained attempting to classify his subhuman hobby on a scale of horror. He is being dealt with legally and professionally. The press will always put this in the worst possible light to sell papers, pageviews, etc. Any attempt to minimize the evil of the barbaric "hobby" is probably ill-advised. He is a really bad guy who will pay. Disecting the levels of savagery is pointless, imo and probably increases in the level of disgust held by most. He'll go to jail for a year or two and lose his $100M job. Appropriate outcome, imo.

Dad I agree. But where is this level of outrage when a child gets abused? When a woman gets raped? When a three time DUI offender smashes into a family and kills them? I mean I have seen more sympathy and empathy for convicted drug users that have stolen robbed and raped. Then they get a talk show because they have "Turned their life around and should be a source of insipiration to us all". The guys participated in something that is wrong. He tortured and killed some dogs. It sure would be nice if these same people outside the courthouse showed the same outrage when a child was mistreated.
When is the last time you saw a horde of people outside a court house yelling for justice in one of these situations? Is it me or is something missing here?

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But where is this level of outrage when a child gets abused? When a woman gets raped? When a three time DUI offender smashes into a family and kills them?

Around here DUI Manslaughter get 10-20 years. Violent crime against humans is proportionately worse and dealt with appropriately by the justice system, up to and including the dealth penalty. I agree public opinion is disproportionate in this case, driven solely by celebrity.

The more zeros you have on a paycheck the closer to the front page the story goes.

Are there others that have done worse with little hoop-a-la, there sure are. But those who put Vick on the pedistal have the first shot to knock him off. I don't think it would make a difference if it was Vick or Bubba from the next ridge, we would have the same dispicable thoughts about both. In this case it happened to one of our "heros" and the first thing we do when that happens is publically seperate ourselves from them. He earned the spotlight, and he has to deal with the downsides also as it part of the territory.

Uh...rz...do you have any of those paychecks that have a number in front of those zeroes? I could use a good one!

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Originally posted by rz1:
The more zeros you have on a paycheck the closer to the front page the story goes.

Are there others that have done worse with little hoop-a-la, there sure are. But those who put Vick on the pedistal have the first shot to knock him off. I don't think it would make a difference if it was Vick or Bubba from the next ridge, we would have the same dispicable thoughts about both. In this case it happened to one of our "heros" and the first thing we do when that happens is publically seperate ourselves from them. He earned the spotlight, and he has to deal with the downsides also as it part of the territory.

Exactly. Regulars folks can roam the countryside harvesting deer with Cadillacs with neary a note of infamy.

I was listeing to someone on the radio about why the hoopla about this, what about high profile players who beat up their wives, or get DUI's and beat up officers? Most of these occurance happen and are not pre meditated or thought about before tehy occyur. Unfortunate but true. Also most first offenders get off very easy when these minor crimes occur.

I agree with Dad04, some crimes are clear cut and have minimum and max penalties. My understanding he had the right to plead not guilty, my understanding he knew exactly what he was doing for a very long time. Wait until the IRS gets their hands on him for the money he collected for betting, they will make his life more miserable than the PETA folks.

He is the lowest of the low, but I agree, I am sick of the sensationalism of the press.

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Originally posted by Dad04:
Exactly. Regulars folks can roam the countryside harvesting deer with Cadillacs with neary a note of infamy.

As far as I'm concerned the deer hit me and I'm sticky with that story!

I find the disparity between how dog-fighting is treated and hunting is treated, ironic at best. While Vick is vilified, athletes and former athletes make careers out of killing animals for sport. I have hunted, so I know all the pros and cons. Is there any difference between sticking an arrow in a deer and having it roam around for hours hurt and bleeding or two dogs fighting?

I find Vick pathetic. I find the uproar even more pathetic. Leonard Little with the Rams killed someone and he's playing. Ray Lewis was involved in the coverup of a murder and he is the poster child for the NFL. Jamall Lewis distributed cocaine.

I love dogs, but they are not people. There are a lot of cruel and inhumane things going on in this country. Not a day goes by without some child being abducted, or sexually assaulted or both. I am sure the federal prosecutors have better things to do.

Vick was the flavor of the month. Now it is the genius Bellichick, next it will be all the names released in the Albany investigation. Wait a week something new will come up.

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Originally posted by 2Bmom:
You might find this interesting:

Where is the outrage when humans are abused?

These have been my thoughts and questions too!

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Is there any difference between sticking an arrow in a deer and having it roam around for hours hurt and bleeding or two dogs fighting?

This is the TO and Woopy Goldberg argument.

For starters one is illegal and one is legal.

Secondly, the hunters I know (including myself) don't derive pleasure from suffering. Even though killing is involved in hunting, I have gone many years without getting a deer and still enjoy the activity - regardless of the kill. The meat from the animal is consumed just like with other farm animals. Fishing also involves taking the life of a living organism but most people don't consider that in the same vein.

In contrast, Vick clearly enjoyed the activity beyond just the sport of gambling on two dogs fighting which is cruel enough in itself. He financed the operation and meated out severe and cruel punishment for low performing dogs. Since we are analogizing this to hunting, he could have done many things to the dogs that were not performing to expectations. He could have nursed them back to health. He could have been kind to them but aparently this distracts from their ferocity. He could have taken them to the humane society. He could have used a .22 caliber bullet and ended things instantly. Instead, he chose electrocution, hanging, starvation, isolation, drowning, and slamming to the ground for example which are all forms of non-instantaneous death. This tells me he enjoyed seeing living things suffer beyond merely wagering on their demise. In my mind that makes him a sadist and also a creep. Other than that, hunting and dog fighting are the same

I agree with Coach May.

What he did was awful and should be punished. But there are wife beaters, murderers, drug users, etc. in the NFL. He's worse than them?

Let him do his time and when he's finished, he should be allowed to play again. Just like any other ex-con should be allowed to work and earn a living -- as big a living as he can legally earn.

I predict Vick will end up returning punts and maybe playing wide receiver for the Raiders come 2010.

But seriously, the biggest clue to where this is going is with the national animal rescue group who came forward arguing he should have to forfeit all the money he'd ever made in his life in order to fund pro-animal causes. Leaving aside the fact that his earnings are not the fruits of his illegal activities, and thus one shouldn't have anything to do with the other, does anyone need more than one guess to figure out which pro-animal cause the spokesman had in mind as a potential recipient of Vick's fortune?

It's a media feeding frenzy and it'll eventually move on to some Britney Spears thing, or maybe Lindsay Lohan or Paris Hilton or whoever falls on their face next.

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Originally posted by Coach May:
First of all let me just say I love animals. I do not in anyway condone what Mike Vick admitted to doing. I have never been a fan of his and thought he was over rated as a pro QB the product of alot of hype. And yes I really never liked him especially after all the off field stuff leading up to this latest incident. Did the guy go off and kill an entire family with a butcher knife? Did he set off a nuclear bomb? I mean this guy is being treated like the poster child for hate. Sentence him and let him pay his dues. But for Gods sake does anyone else feel the same way?

Animals are abused and killed all the time. This is about a celebrity abusing and killing animals. It sells newspapers. It gets user hits on the internet. It gets people tuned into the news on TV. If Vick had abused and killed an adult woman or a child imagine the outrage. It would be nonstop.

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Originally posted by Dad04:
Regulars folks can roam the countryside harvesting deer with Cadillacs with neary a note of infamy.

The law allows hunting deer. The law does not allow abusing and killing dogs. While there are those who oppose hunting, society generally accepts it. Society doesn't accept killing domesticated animals considered man's best friend.

If Vick were a "normal Joe" nobody would have even heard about it and perhaps the authorities might not have even cared

It is all about celebrity!!!!

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Instead, he chose electrocution, hanging, starvation, isolation, drowning, and slamming to the ground for example which are all forms of non-instantaneous death. This tells me he enjoyed seeing living things suffer beyond merely wagering on their demise. In my mind that makes him a sadist and also a creep.

He's a piece of SH*T, Torture might be more appropriate for his penalty. How's his brother doing these days. Why did all that athletic ability have to be wasted on Michael Vick?

Cruelty is cruelty regardless if legal or illegal. I doubt if the animal cares about the "good intentions" of the man killing it.

Vick should rot in H@ll. But he will have alot of company.

WI hunting takes ~500,000 dear a year and we are still in a population explosion. The alternative for thinning the herd is starvation and disease, which is true suffering.

PG,
His brother was a "walk on" (I don't know how else you would describe it) for Miami Dolphins but got the boot under new coach.

He too messed up his career.

I could never hurt an animal but I agree one is legal and one is not and hunting is a way to thin out the heard. It's also controlled during specific times if I am correct.

I can't even put a live lobster in boiling water, but I can have someone else do it and eat it!

rz

I fish but do not hunt but I truly understand the need for hunting to keep the deer herd down so they do not starve to death as well as spread disease

It is the same with fishing --if we do not fish the waters become overpopulated and then disease sets in

Killing dogs is not the same as hunting---in Asian countries dogs are raised for food just as cattle here in the USA and I understand that--but raising dogs to kill. Torturing them and killing them is absurd and heartless

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It's also controlled during specific times if I am correct.

Yes it is and every year the season is extended and rules in some areas are change where you can't shoot a buck until you shoot a doe. It is out of hand.

If you can imagine that during November there almost 2x more Wisconsinites carrying loaded high powered rifles within the State borders than there are Americans carrying high powered rifles in Iraq.

WI has very few home break-ins and burglaries. Robbery is a dangerous profession in WI.

Anyone who says it is not all out war with those furry varmints also known as Odocoileus virginianus has not seen this "fly-by" sent to me by an esteemed fellow webster.
deer attack

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by deldad: I find the disparity between how dog-fighting is treated and hunting is treated, ironic at best

with that IQ level I'm afraid you'll never understand

it's sad but Vick (& group) were doing what breeders (esp fighting breeds) DO ... "culling the breed"

since Roman times, inferior stock has always been disposed of so it could not breed.

this has been SOP with fighting breeds for 30-40 yrs in US .. anyone normal person who owns one is crazy.

I do totally agree that people do not get nearly as worked up about the abuse that goes on towards children and people. Most of us cannot let our young children OUT OF OUR SIGHT because we have to fear the child molesters and abductors etc. Why are we not OUTRAGED about that.

But I also totally agree you can't compare the hunting to the dog fighting for reasons already mentioned. Animal lovers just don't want to accept the fact that if there was no hunting these deer would suffer greatly from starvation.

Another thing no one has mentioned is the other components of dog-fighting: drug use at the fights, firearms, children in violent, dangerous places etc.

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since Roman times, inferior stock has always been disposed of so it could not breed.

ps - in China those animals would be valued .. but on a plate or at a tailgate

carefull what you order to eat at the Olympics

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Originally posted by rz1:
WI hunting takes ~500,000 dear a year and we are still in a population explosion. The alternative for thinning the herd is starvation and disease, which is true suffering.

Does that include Cadillac kills?

I don't understand. Hunting is good, because that way we preventing deers to die of starvation because superpoblation. Humm...Sound to me like man may violate the natural way of living stablished by God.
Original hunting was stablished for humans to eat, not to hang a deer's head on the wall. If you believe that you may kill animals to control their population, you can also go to Africa to hunt babies that are dieying from starvation from the first day that Europeans start to hunt animals over there.

While I won't normally take a shot at any other poster, I'm going to make an exception and say that Deldad's thinly veiled oppostition to hunting should be kept to himself. Comments such as he made about animals being shot with arrows "roaming around for hours hurt and bleeding" is not only generally very inaccurate, it's highly ignorant and simply meant to be inflammatory. He goes on to say that "cruelty is cruelty regardless if legal or not." Again, just an attempt to pass his biased views off on others. Hunting, properly practiced, is neither cruel or inhumane. If you don't like it, don't do it. Many others, myself included, find hunting and fishing to be wonderful passtimes and a way of life. I take offense at your biased comments.

Deldad, you sir, are ignorant in your understanding of hunting and should keep your opinions to yourself. First of all, animals shot with arrows generally die a swift death, very swift. I've taken the lives of a fair number of animals with archery equipment, up to elk and moose that weigh 750-1000 pounds, and a well shot animal often dies within seconds or minutes, and commonly within sight. You make it seem as if we're all slobs who inflict enduring pain on animals, and your biased views are not only inaccurate, they're offensive to me, and I'm quite sure, to others as well.

Please keep your biased opinions to yourself. If you have to comment, know a little bit about which you speak. To those who know about this, you're pretty clueless. Stick to baseball stuff, you do seem to know a little bit about that.

Having a been labeled by some in my family as leaning toward being warped and/or unstable I saw on our recent trip to Staten Island a building that had 2 businesses within where there outdoor signage was in an unintentional "L" shape when looking at it from a particular angle. I took a pic but in my astonishment of the sight I wonder if I turned the camera on. It read

P
E
T

C
L
I
N
I
C

VIETNAMESE TAKEOUT

I went in and asked the vet if I was alone in finding that unusual and he said that he has always been a little shy to admit the "darkness" of the situation. I think he was relieved that someone else noticed it.

RZ, that's bad...but very funny!

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Originally posted by Racab:
I don't understand. Hunting is good, because that way we preventing deers to die of starvation because superpoblation. Humm...Sound to me like man may violate the natural way of living stablished by God.
Original hunting was stablished for humans to eat, not to hang a deer's head on the wall. If you believe that you may kill animals to control their population, you can also go to Africa to hunt babies that are dieying from starvation from the first day that Europeans start to hunt animals over there.

My freezer still has meat from last year, we bless the food on our table, the soup kitchens around the State get their share of donated meat, farmers cash crops are saved to a certain extent. I know of very few people that have wall mounts. CWD (Chronic Wasting disease) threatens the livestock and potentially humans. Man created the problem by supplying an ample food source and we are now experiencing the downside.

This site talks of father/son bonding and life lessons through baseball. That same lesson is learned in the woods and it may even be a deeper relationship.

Hunting is a soulful event.You have to walk the walk before you put it down.

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This site talks of father/son bonding and life lessons through baseball. That same lesson is learned in the woods and it may even be a deeper relationship.

Hunting is a soulful event.You have to walk the walk before you put it down.

The best time's I ever had with my Dad and Brother's and Friend's. Was when we were Hunting.
And it had nothing to do with Harvesting an animal.

The Deer Population in the US is Higher then it's ever been in the History of America.

"I predict Vick will end up returning punts and maybe playing wide receiver for the Raiders come 2010." Agreed,Midlo Dad! Thinking maybe Mr. Davis could use Lyndsey, Brittany and Paris on the sideline in someting skimpy and shiny. Just another committment to excellence!

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Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I predict Vick will end up returning punts and maybe playing wide receiver for the Raiders come 2010.

He'll be playing QB in 08 or 09 for some desperate team who doesn't worry about public reaction. The Raiders still might be a good choice. The Falcons are still a possibility. A lot of fans there still love him. It depends how Arthur Blank feels about employing Vick.

Hunting is not a sport in any sense of the term.

My neighbor used to coat himself with deer do-do or urine and then sit up in a tree for days.

Every couple of years he came back with some meat.

Every year, however, he came back smelling like s..t and it lasted for weeks.

When the deer are carrying rifles and can shoot back then I will call it a sport. What if you were walking to your stand and then "Bam" you look up and a deer is in a tree stand trying to knock you off before you can set up on him? Now thats a sport. Hunting for food to eat. OK I can see that. Hunting for the sake of having fun killing an innocent animal - ????

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Originally posted by Coach May:
When the deer are carrying rifles and can shoot back then I will call it a sport. What if you were walking to your stand and then "Bam" you look up and a deer is in a tree stand trying to knock you off before you can set up on him? Now thats a sport. Hunting for food to eat. OK I can see that. Hunting for the sake of having fun killing an innocent animal - ????

So from a consitutional standpoint, do you claim the right to arm bears?

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Hunting for the sake of having fun killing an innocent animal - ????

INNOCENT.
We like to hunt Elk.
And there was this little old lady that had a house with her Husband. And she had a nice garden with plenty of beautiful flower's in it??
And we asked if we could hunt there property for deer and Elk.

She said for heavens sake, Yes.
There eating all my flower's. LOL

One's man Bambi, is another Womans Pest. LOL
EH