I see both sides....

quote:

Originally posted by crawdad:
Ken,
I probably respect your opinion on here as much if not more than any other. I understand what you are trying to say - there are alot of parents who for some reason their only quest in life is for their kid to play baseball beyond high school - at the expense of jobs, academics, other family events, and not to mention raising a well rounded young man who is prepared to graduate high school and do something OTHER than play baseball.

An interesting web page put out by the NCAA is blissfully ignored by most: Probability of competing in college or pro sports
For those who have not seen the FACTS it might be illuminating.

I struggle with the same issues - would I be happier with a straight A report card and an invitation to join the National Honor Society or would I rather have my son pitch a 15-0 HS season and bat .600? I hate to admit that I would be happier with the great HS baseball season and that is NOT right. This is something I struggle with alot. What would really best prepare my son to be a productive member of society, a good father, and a good husband?

Tough questions and sometimes I don't like the answers.

As an expecting father of my first, and first boy that is, I assume I will face the same challenges.

A father of a player on a recent team I coached told me this........

"Teach your child character, as that is the most important job you will have as a father.'

As a coach, I tried my best to deliver this message each day I was around the team. If you can teach a child or young person character, anything else that follows will hopefully be done with ethics, responsibility, and thought. Not that choices will always be right, but there will be character behind the decision made.

I believe the vast majority of serious baseball parents really don't have a grasp on what exactly this game is all about. It ain't about what a team or organization can do for your son, it's about what your son can do for his team. (My best Kennedy impression, not trying to do that. )

As a college player, each day my focus was getting better to have a chance at the professional level. I can remember it like it was yesterday. One day a scout, still scouting, came out to watch batting practice. I had already hit in my group and the scout came late. He asked my coach if I could hit a couple rounds as each group was done on my own for on field evalation. (Thats how they did things back then before "showcases" ) We had a new assistant coach who was recently released from the Met's organization who was throwing batting practice. I guess he had something to prove to professional baseball because he was throwing me sliders, change ups, and fastballs on my fists. I wanted to scream at him so loud but I couldn't cause the scout was right there by the cage. What impression would that have given him in my character? I didn't hit a ball hard that whole batting practice.

After the incident, my entire team (who was shagging the BP) all had words of encouragement noticing my frustration. I thought this was my one chance and someone ruined it. We said our team prayer before the game on moved on from that moment.

Point of the story, there is no one chance. There is no one moment. It's how you go about the way you play, carry yourself, and as a teammate everyday you get a chance to play this game. Doing these things will create your chances no matter where you play, what showcase you play in, what team you play on, or who you get lessons from.

I also remember my days in the minor leagues. I remember sitting behind the plate thinking................"what am I doing here".

Professional baseball gave me little sastisfaction. I'm sure a few more bucks and a couple hundred batting average points more may have changed that. But I'm serious. I didn't have the fun like I had in college. There was no team atmosphere like in college. I didn't realize what I had until I didn't have it. Just like anything else in life.

That is what folks will miss. Everyone's child on this forum who plays ball will see their son play their last game sooner than later. Some sooner than others, most right after high school, and nearly all after college if they get that far.

That being said, enjoy the simple things that the game has to offer your son. The opportunity to have teammates. The opportunity to "play" a game that is awesome. The oppurtunity to learn life's lessons in a sports environment. Because like I said, it WILL be over soon. That is a fact.

I enjoyed my days in coaching and look forward to my next. I wish I had the mindset to forget the bad issues involved and dwell on the good. Unfortunately it is hard. I see todays amatuer game changing for the worse in a hurry. I long for the days when kids showed up to play a game and leave it all on the field. Showing up out of excitement to see their teamates and help them achieve a common goal. Showing up simply because they enjoyed baseball.

Not just showing up for an opportunity to better themselves or an opportunity for them to get through the next hurdle. Because soon that hurdle will have a finish line, sometime it's there before the race is really over.

Ok, off my soapbox. For now anyhow.

Bottom line Crawdad, I'm right there with you. I'm sure it's hard as a father. I can't wait for the challenge.

Ken, I think what maybe you have missed, is that there are lots of kids that show up just to play the game. There are hundreds of kids that play for the name on the front of the jersey, rather than the name on the back.

And if you go into being a father with the glass is half empty mentality, it will be a long 18 years. You need to learn to move on or you will hold a grudge that your son pooped in his diaper for his whole life.

quote:

Originally posted by KellerDad:
Ken, I think what maybe you have missed, is that there are lots of kids that show up just to play the game. There are hundreds of kids that play for the name on the front of the jersey, rather than the name on the back.

How many dugouts have you sat in in the last 10 years?

quote:

Originally posted by KellerDad:
You need to learn to move on or you will hold a grudge that your son pooped in his diaper for his whole life.

I admit, that is a classic line. Good advice.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:

quote:

Originally posted by KellerDad:
Ken, I think what maybe you have missed, is that there are lots of kids that show up just to play the game. There are hundreds of kids that play for the name on the front of the jersey, rather than the name on the back.

How many dugouts have you sat in in the last 10 years?

I will wager that I've seen more kids play baseball in the past 10 years than you have.

That's the thing about "baseball" people, you tend to look down at parents because "they didn't play the game or sit in the dugout"

Hogwash.

I coached kids that didn't know how to throw a ball, know what a base was or why you had to tag up on a fly ball. Baseball coaches like you complain about these high level select players need to go back to coaching 6,7 or 8 year olds. Go back to the basics and then complain when a kid throwing 99mph wants to go to a showcase so he might increase his odds in the draft.

Boo hoo. Try coaching a kid that is holding himself in the outfield because he needs to go to the bathroom. That's a challenge.

And that's exactly why discussions with you have no merrit with me.

An English professor cannot understand to the full extent what an executive accountant does.

Just like someone who has not been through the trenches of the game cannot understand exactly what goes on behind the scenes.

Not that I think any less of you, don't really know you. But your lack of experience in the game holds little merrit with me.

That may sound arrogant, but I am not trying to be. If it does, I apoligize. Just stating how I feel.

As far as your wager, I can gaurantee that I have seen more baseball in my short life than you. Not that big of a deal and does not prove anything, just simply stating.

Anyhow, people will have opinions. We just don't always have to agree. May you have good luck in your sons baseball future.

Lastly, teaching a kid to throw in between his potty breaks is a little different than teaching a teenager how to go about playing the game.

I have enjoyed reading both of your responses! I can relate to both of you in many different ways, with my son, and thank you for the responses! It is refreshing to see some real thoughts being posted!

quote:

Originally posted by FormerObserver:
.600 pays more than NHS.

You just made my point EXACTLY about what drives most "baseball" parents nowadays and what is important to them.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
How many dugouts have you sat in in the last 10 years?

Don't know about KD, but I have done my share of coaching in the past ten years. Including select ball.

Seems most every season there was one "parent from Hades". Sometimes two. And more than once there was a dad who thought so highly of our team he tried (via dirty tricks) to take it over. But I don't think there was ever a kid I couldn't bring around.

And I did it for the kids. Not for the parents. Not for me.

So I judge the experience by the kids, and therefore am content rather than bitter over the unpleasant things that were also part of the experience.

Yes, I stopped coaching when the boys reached a certain age. I believed - no, knew - that there were clubs that could help them to the next level better than I. Clubs with connections I did not have.

You talk about your dream and your playing experiences. And it is obvious from your discussion of the scout/hitting practice encounter that you had a great deal of "want".

So is it terrible that a kid wants to go to the WWBA or AFLAC or Area Code games? Events that put him in front of huge number of scouts? That can help him toward the dream (the same dream you had)?

Personally, I would be proud to have my players going to those venues. But then I was in it for the kids, not for my W-L record. And I realize that my motivation was different from that of a significant number of select coaches that I knew.

I don't know which means more to you, winning in Farmington or having your kids go off to great achievements. That is your choice.

quote:

Originally posted by Keller Dad:
Lastly, teaching a kid to throw in between his potty breaks is a little different than teaching a teenager how to go about playing the game.

Reminds me of a 9YO kid I coached. He was up to bat next, and needed more than just a bush to go behind... Thank goodness for understanding umps.

Ken -- at what point in time did you feel like you knew how to go about playing the game -- when did it "click" for you? Your earlier post discusses playing every day so you could be closer to the pros, but that concept seems disgusting to you now -- as that is what a number of your players were doing this past summer when they chose the showcase path. Maybe that point came later in college for you -- as a 100% "team" approach would not have allowed extra batting practice at the expense of game preparation for your teammates.

I suppose your views are intriguing to me because they seem more full of regret than cherished memories -- which is ok too. Fond memories and regret can co-exist. And there are others on this message board that do not look back on their pro baseball careers in glowing terms. As I mentioned earlier, it is a matter of perspective -- and perspectives change over the years. I am a very competitive person, but I have learned that games aren't really very important in the big picture. Anger with an ump or a call is only a very temporary thing for me -- despite the fact that I still over-react and make frequent mistakes.

Your previous post indicates to me (and to others here, I guess) that you feel that our baseball opinions are inferior to yours. Despite the fact that that might anger some, it makes sense to me....and is really quite revealing as I mingle with "baseball people" -- I need to keep it in mind. I think your analogy makes sense, like the doctor that doesn't want to be given dad's prognosis on his kid's illness at the onset of an office visit. Ego, experience, time in the trences, whatever...

Doug -- your posts made me laugh -- and I agree that there remain many kids that just love the dirt and the sweat and the thrill of competing -- next level or not.

-PD

quote:

Originally posted by Texan:

You talk about your

So is it terrible that a kid wants to go to the WWBA or AFLAC or Area Code games?

Personally, I would be proud to have my players going to those venues. But then I was in it for the kids, not for my W-L record. And I realize that my motivation was different from that of a significant number of select coaches that I knew.

I don't know which means more to you, winning in Farmington or having your kids go off to great achievements. That is your choice.

I don't know what path your going down with this but I do not recall my previous posts refering to any particular events or any world series.

I am speaking in general terms. No sanctions, no names, no particular events. Baseball in general.

As shown in the past, this forum does not want particular incidents or circumstances. I don't have a problem with stating the facts but honor the wishes of the intent of this forum as it has been stated in the past.

Again, posts as these are just further evidence that what is really important somehow seems to be overshawdowed time and time again.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
My sons have been in NHS....and they have been named on All-District teams --- one of the two is over-rated!

Actually, both are simply life experiences -- nothing more, nothing less -- and both can contribute to your son becoming a good man, with other key ingredients.

If your son decided to pursue medicine, wouldn't you do everything within your power to help him become the best doctor (or nurse or whatever) he could be? Playing baseball at the next level is like anything else our kids decide to pursue. As for me, if they pursue it with passion, I will support it (within reason, of course).

I think your point and Ken's is valid though ---- KEEP THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE!

Missing church does not mean baseball is before God -- missing a trip to Disney does not mean it is before family -- using an old lawn-mower for another year to buy new baseball equipment does not mean it is more important than yardwork ----- WAIT, yardwork??? what am I saying???

God, family, friends/baseball ------------------(miles)----------------------------- yardwork.

Good post, crawdad.

A couple of points -
My oldest son WAS in the NHS. My point was that I was not as excited about that as I was in regard to his athletic accomplishments. In my years listening to other parents I don't think that that sentiment is out of the ordinary with parents whose kids play in sports. Maybe our priorities as parents are out of whack.

And in regard to playing in baseball games instead of going to church or going to Disneyland - I would respectively disagree that that is NOT an idicator that baseball DOES come before God or family vacations. We all have to make decisions and we are only fooling ourselves if we try to rationalize them to make our conscience feel better.

I have made those decisions also. I have let my son play in a Sunday morning baseball game instead of going to Mass and that IS putting baseball ahead of God. I don't know how else you can look at it!

I am as guilty as anyone else in pushing my son too hard in sports but I am trying at least not to fool myself into thinking otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
Ken -- at what point in time did you feel like you knew how to go about playing the game -- when did it "click" for you?

Right after the BP incident. That's why I used it as an example.

quote:

Your earlier post discusses playing every day so you could be closer to the pros, but that concept seems disgusting to you now

Do not recall stating that. Simply implied that some things aren't what they are cracked up to be. But that was really not the point of the post.

quote:

Maybe that point came later in college for you -- as a 100% "team" approach would not have allowed extra batting practice at the expense of game preparation for your teammates.

Agian, that was an example of my point. I did not feel comfortable with the situation. My coach made the decision to allow of such. But after, understood what he was trying to teach me.

quote:

Your previous post indicates to me (and to others here, I guess) that you feel that our baseball opinions are inferior to yours.

Again, not so. Simply stating that it is hard for me to accept ones opinions in full if they haven't experienced the actual thing. Just like I have no clue what I am in for in raising a kid. If I told you how to teach youR kid manners, would that have any merrit with you even though I have not raised a child?

Crawdad -- no need to argue the point but if one follows your logic, then those that work on Sundays are putting work before God -- let's not go there -- a discussion that will benefit no one.

I think God likes baseball -- see Genesis 1.

After reading through these posts again, I begin to see a trend. For some reason, I cannot get my point accross in what I am exactly speaking of.

Maybe it's the way I word things, maybe it's the examples I use. Regardless, I am failing to communicate what I really mean.

In this area, I search for advice everyday. Ways to communicate that is. Do I go to a grocery store clerk for advice, no. I go to folks who are successful at it. My Boss, my college coach, baseball fathers I respect, father figures. People who have can and have done it.

Regardless, again I am failing to make a clear message. I can see that. I am not avoiding the facts.

But, like anything else, I will continue to post what I believe. Maybe, sooner or later it will make since to others.

After little league, high school, college, minor leagues, an inside look at the big league level, and coaching.......

It makes since to me now. Why I cannot communicate my point is still in question. But if I keep trying maybe things might change.

Maybe it's like kids with their parents......

After they become adults, they come back and say.......

"Mom, Dad, I understand what you were saying now."

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
I don't know what path your going down with this but I do not recall my previous posts refering to any particular events or any world series.

I am speaking in general terms. No sanctions, no names, no particular events. Baseball in general.

As shown in the past, this forum does not want particular incidents or circumstances. I don't have a problem with stating the facts but honor the wishes of the intent of this forum as it has been stated in the past.

Again, posts as these are just further evidence that what is really important somehow seems to be overshawdowed time and time again.

Just throwing out representative examples, not at all trying to drag any players' names into this.

I guess my question is: What is "really important" to you as a coach?

quote:

I guess my question is: What is "really important" to you as a coach?

As a coach, or once coach, what is really important to me is this........

-That a player understands the true glory in playing the game of baseball.

-That a player gains respect from his peers.

-That a player learns life lessons through baseball.

-That a player has the oppurinty to achieve goals on a personal level only to understand that achieving goals in a team atmosphere is where true content will be awarded.

-That a player understands to take every game, inning, or pitch like it's your last and as long as you know you gave it your all the rest doesn't matter. In saying this, I don't see how simulated evaluations can contribute to this.

-That the memories created in baseball will only be as strong as the relationship with your teamates.

-Oh, I almost forgot. It was really important that MY TEAM won the CMWS in Farmington. That's why I really did it.

That was a joke, just in case.....

My college coach told us this after every last game of the season........

He said..."What you do from here with your baseball career does not matter to me. If you become a good husband and a good father I will be proud to have coached you.

I passed that on to my players but felt a little weird saying it to 16,17,and 18. Thought it was the most important message I learned so still passed it on.

That is what I believe is really important. You can inhance those skills through baseball. That is whats so great. But it takes character.

And character is what is really important to me as a coach.

So Ken, what constitutes to you a "Baseball Person"?

One that played HS ball?

One that played College Ball at any level, or does it have to be D1?

Pro Ball?

Major League ball?

Hall of Fame?

How about Theo Epstien, is he a baseball guy?

How about Jon Daniels?

My wife trains doctors how to do surgery, but doesn't have an MD....does that make her unqualified to train those doctors?

Thank God her company doesn't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by KellerDad:
So Ken, what constitutes to you a "Baseball Person"?

Someone who can give examples through experience other than what they have seen from the outside looking in.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:

quote:

Originally posted by KellerDad:
So Ken, what constitutes to you a "Baseball Person"?

Someone who can give examples through experience other than what they have seen from the outside looking in.

This thread seems to have gotten a bit off its original topic but I’m going to jump in anyway because this new direction is still worth discussing. To me your definition of a baseball person seems awfully limited. By your standard Bill James has nothing to add to the collective knowledge of baseball. He was the epitome of an outsider when he first published the “Baseball Abstract”. He has changed the way many baseball professionals (and fans) view the game precisely because he had an outside perspective. Decades later he was employed by several MLB teams and last I heard he was still under contract to one. They seem to disagree with you.

I’m not trying to diminish the value of someone who has been on the inside and has professional baseball experience. For example it sounds like you are about to learn first hand that growing up with a parent in the house is not quite the same as being a parent in the house. Certainly watching the MLB game is not the same as playing or coaching at the MLB level either. On the other hand I hope you will see that your son will have ideas and a perspective that has value too. Just as Bill James and many other less significant baseball outsiders (and maybe even HSBBW members) do.

I think one thing that Ken is trying to say is that sometimes the parents who are the most naive when it comes to dreaming about their kids playing MLB are parents who last dressed for a game as a player (if they ever did) as a 12 year old Little Leaguer.

There is a huge select baseball industry that has been born over the last 15 years that feeds off of the dreams that PARENTS have for their boys. Like I have said in other posts, there are not that many 7 year olds who beg their parents to put them on a traveling select team that plays in a "World Series". This industry is parent driven.

We parents then fool ourselves when by the time the kid is 12 years old we comfort ourselves by saying that he is playing year around baseball because he wants to. Of course he does - it is the only thing he knows about.

Thanks Crawdad, maybe I can tell you my thoughts and you can write them. Seems like you do a better job.

Or maybe it's coming from a parent rather than a know it all former coach that makes the point somewhat acceptable to folks.

Regardless, thanks for discussion with an open mind.

One more little observation - my high school age boys do something that was common when I was in high school but is not so common now - they play football, basektball, and baseball in high school.

I wish I had a dollar for everytime other parents questioned why I would "let" them play football and basketball since they did not have a "future" in those sports. I have actually had my competence as a parent questioned because I am letting them risk injury and potential scholarships from playing football.

What used to be common with HS boys is now considered out of the ordinary. Whatever happened to playing the game for the fun of it?

I would not dream of making my sons miss the once in a lifetime thrill of "Friday night lights" in Texas. But fewer HS baseball players will have that experience as time goes on. What a shame.

I don't know, Crawdad. Some of the most delusional dads I have seen played college and/or minors ball.

I agree Crawdad. Let the kids play whatever they enjoy. As long as they show commitment to whatever it is they are playing at that time.

I have an example but wont mention names. There is a player that I have coached who is a three sport athlete and a good one at that. But there is no secret where his bread and butter is. I am certain the player even knows and understands that baseball is his avenue.

If and when basketball runs into the baseball season, this player will fulfill his commitment to his basketball team. He made a commitment to his team and he lives up to it. When that particular sport is done, then he will return to his true love which is baseball and which he has recieved a division I scholarship in.

This is an example of what I think sports in general can teach our youth. This player is learning commitment and loyalty. Two elements that produce quality character in life.

My thoughts anyway....

Again, let them play anything they want to as long as they enjoy it.

quote:

So Ken, what constitutes to you a "Baseball Person"?

Anyone read the book Moneyball? Seems there a lot of baseball people out there that are really not baseball people after all.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:

quote:

I guess my question is: What is "really important" to you as a coach?

As a coach, or once coach, what is really important to me is this........

-That a player understands the true glory in playing the game of baseball.

-That a player gains respect from his peers.

-That a player learns life lessons through baseball.

-That a player has the oppurinty to achieve goals on a personal level only to understand that achieving goals in a team atmosphere is where true content will be awarded.

-That a player understands to take every game, inning, or pitch like it's your last and as long as you know you gave it your all the rest doesn't matter. In saying this, I don't see how simulated evaluations can contribute to this.

-That the memories created in baseball will only be as strong as the relationship with your teamates.

-Oh, I almost forgot. It was really important that MY TEAM won the CMWS in Farmington. That's why I really did it.

That was a joke, just in case.....

My college coach told us this after every last game of the season........

He said..."What you do from here with your baseball career does not matter to me. If you become a good husband and a good father I will be proud to have coached you.

I passed that on to my players but felt a little weird saying it to 16,17,and 18. Thought it was the most important message I learned so still passed it on.

That is what I believe is really important. You can inhance those skills through baseball. That is whats so great. But it takes character.

And character is what is really important to me as a coach.

Understands the true glory... I wanted them to enjoy playing the game. But true glory in a sport is a little bit nebulous to me. But that is JMHO.

Player gains respect from his peers... Well, I can't control all the players' attitudes towards each other. If the player had earned his own respect, that was good enough for me. People can go into lifelong depression trying to gain others' respect.

Life lessons... Ties in with sportsmanship, IMHO and I agree there.

Personal rewards & team rewards... That means that anyone playing for your team cannot miss a game for any reason whatsoever. Think I interpreted that correctly.

Give it everything you got... Sure. That's a given (pun intended).

Now for the shot taken at showcases. Would you expect a job applicant not to go to an interview? Showcases are now part of the "hiring" process in baseball. Some people may not like them, but they do exist and are used. Are many of the showcases merely money makers for the organizer? Probably. But not all.

Baseball memories will only be as strong as the relationship with your teammates... That is quite a stretch, IMHO.

Personally, if a kid is trying to better himself by attending a high profile event and if he is up front with me about this ahead of time, I have no problem as a coach. But then my goal is for the players to go as far as they can.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I respect what you are saying. Have heard great things about your coaching. But there is another viewpoint.

Good luck in the future.

The kids I know that are quitting football and basketball, including mine, are doing in on their own -- don't blame the parents for everything. And if you haven't noticed, the select "industry" in not a baseball phenomenon alone -- see gymnastics, sokker, hockey, ice skating, basketball, and even football.

And one summer....at band camp.....

Oh -- and the select organizations whose teams are impacted by the AFLAC, PG, etc. events are sponsoring showcases as well.

One more thing to add. Sports (and I wish it were different) is a business. The parents are the deep pockets in the equation. Understand what it is and get the most of of it. If your sole purpose is to look at your son/daughter as an investment, your missing the boat, and most likely will be dissapointed in the end.

Things are not the same when I played ball "back in the old days". I never received a private lesson, had a personal trainer, or played on a select team. I don't remember anyone else at the time getting those either. But, times have changed and people have realized there is $$$$ to be made and that makes it a "business".

Good debate, hope I’m excused for adding some opinions.

Baseball People, How they think and Showcases

In the past couple years here are some fathers who sent their sons to PG Showcases

Wade Boggs – Hall of Fame
Dennis Martinez – 245 MLB wins
Roger Clemens – Best ever
Bob Didier – MLB player and scout
Dan Jennings – Scouting Director D’rays and VP of Marlins
Roy Clark – Scouting Director Braves
Doug Melvin – GM Brewers
Ron Gardenhire – MLB Manager Twins
Tommy Herr – MLB PLayer
Robbie Thompson – MLB Player
Mike Hargrove – MLB Manager and player
Dave Cash – MLB player and minor league Manager
Jesse Barfield – MLB Player
Andy VanSlyke – MLB Player
Doug Drabek – MLB pitcher – Cy Young
Cecil Fielder – MLB Player
Tim Raines – MLB Player
John Housey - Crosschecker
Jim Tracy – MLB Manager
Mike Scioscia – MLB Player and Manager
Glenn Sherlock – MLB Coach
Marty Brown – Minor League Coach
Bruce Kimm – MLB Player and Manager
Jimmy Williams – MLB Manager
Ted Williams – Hall of Fame
Tony Fernandez – MLB Player
Ivan DeJesus – MLB Player
Jose Cruz – MLB layer and coach
Joe Coleman – MLB Manager
Paul Gibson - MLB Pitcher

I could go on and on for a long time, but is it necessary?

Everyone would have to agree that these are all “baseball people” by anyones definition. And they all sent their kids to showcases! Every baseball person doesn’t do things the same way or have the same thoughts.

Other Sports

I think it is great when baseball kids play other sports. What bothers me is when those who are not playing other sports aren’t working on baseball during the offseason.

The Team
I have a lot of respect for Ken and agree completely that the team aspect of baseball is the most important thing.

I see both sides
The title of this thread says it all!

What took you so long, PG?

Before someone brings up Ted Williams thinking that has to be a mistake. It's very true!

John Henry Williams (now deceased) attended our showcase in St Pete a few years ago. It was his dad's request. He was about 30 years old at the time and registered under a different name. He later signed with the Red Sox and played a year of minor league baseball. It's a story that we will tell completely before long, but he was definitely the talk of Tropicana Field that weekend.

PGStaff -- thanks for contributing. The discussion about "baseball people" here has very little to do with those that obviously fit that category. If you read the thread, it has more to do with accepting opinions from those that have not played the game at a high level. As for me, I played high school baseball so, I'm an eggspert!

No one here has ever minimized the concept of team -- have they? You seldom, if ever, see families who are on the showcase "circuit" without also being part of a team.

Longtoss -- although I agree with your comments for the most part, I think that characterizing those that have made commitments to select baseball as also holding the view that there is "$$$$ to be made" is a bit of a reach. I want my son to play at the next level if 1) he wants that, 2) he has the God-given talent to do so, and 3) it can compliment his "life-preparation" ----- I see very little $$$$ to be made.

JMO.

-PD

The dollar signs that I see are generally in the eyes of the Select Program, rather than the parents. Maybe at a younger age you get people that are all star eyed about their kid playing in the MLB, but by HS, most of them are realists.

I know of a Select Organization that advertised X number of "showcase/tournaments" this summer and only brought their kids to half that many. They also required the kids to return their uniforms at the end of the season. What did they get for $1,500.

I know of another select organization that folded midway thru the year, leaving the parents and kids out of luck.

I know of a tournament operator that took money from numerous teams to then not have a tournament. He finally returned the money, but I feel only because of ridicule of him on this site.

I know of another organization that had 40 kids on one team this fall. 40 x $500 = $20,000!!!!

Who's got dollar signs in thier eyes?????

Just to make one thing clear.

I do not have a problem with a "showcase". Whatever your definition of that may be.

On that note, the Perfect Game events never interrupted anything I was trying to focus on with any team I coached. Their staff truely understands the team concept and plans their events accordingly.

In fact, I will be the first to tell you that I believe Perfect Game has made the youth game a better game. What they do for teams and individuals is unmatched. But if you were to ask them, meaning staff, I bet they would rather lose a kid attending their event due to team conflict than to have them. This approach makes coaches want to work and attend thier events. With that, their events are unmatched in my opinion.

I don't know why this thread has turned into me against "showcases". It may be that my words were taken into ones self interpitation. Or it may have something to do with my posts in the past.

If we want to back to the past we can, but rather than ruffle feathers I have chose to post on what I believe the topic at hand was.

Ken -- I believe the opinions being expressed regarding you and showcases is indeed related to past posts. And fairly or unfairly, there is a perception (if I may speak for others) that your team's Farmington bid was impacted by the AFLAC games (a PG event). We don't need to rehash.

I agree that we are way off topic.

Moderator -- please close the thread if we continue to "wander". Someone else can open a new topic if there are additional comments.

PantherDad,

I shouldn't speak for someone else, but I am somewhat familiar with the situation.

The Aflac Classic did not interfer with the Connie Mack World Series at all. In fact, 3 or 4 Aflac players actually played in Farmington before heading to Baltimore for the Aflac.

I believe it was a different event that was in question and I believe it interfered with Connie Mack regional.

Either way, we have never had a problem with a player missing our stuff because of a team committment. That is one of the very best reasons for missing a showcase.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
Ken -- I believe the opinions being expressed regarding you and showcases is indeed related to past posts. And fairly or unfairly, there is a perception (if I may speak for others) that your team's Farmington bid was impacted by the AFLAC games (a PG event). We don't need to rehash.

I agree that we are way off topic.

Moderator -- please close the thread if we continue to "wander". Someone else can open a new topic if there are additional comments.

You are incorrect with that assessment. I will repeat, PG has never interfered with anything I have done with a team I have coached.