Since we have gotten off topic a bit, let's try this....
What are some of the things parents can enforce in order to build character into their child or young ballplayer?
Play hard for the entire game, play with integrity, be coachable, learn to accept constructive advice, respect authority (umps, coaches - on both sides), stay humble, remain motivated, and never forget to say thank you ----- to name a few.
(okok, it was Area Code or whatever, water over the dam)-- sorry for recalling poorly
(okok, it was Area Code or whatever, water over the dam)-- sorry for recalling poorly
BTW, thanks PD & Ken for getting some discussion going. The board was awfully slow...
quote:
(okok, it was Area Code or whatever, water over the dam)-- sorry for recalling poorly
Nope, it wasn't even Area Code.
I would like to ask opinion on the original thread about Varsity vs JV. Son as a Frosh started on Varsity as a 3rd baseman, also became one of the top 3 pitchers for the team. How do you handle parent comments, kids stopping yours in the hallway to say he didn't belong on the team. Order expensive stuff in his name, stealing school materials from him. Generally messing with him throughout the baseball season. It got to the point where the AD, Principal were involved. We told coach to put him down on JV if it was going to be this bad. Coach stuck by him and at the end of the season he was leading the pack on stats. What do you say to those that are making negative comments to you or your child?
Well, it has been a delightful discussion.
A few things are clear, and then some are not. The baseball world landscape has changed, right or wrong it has changed. What separates the masses that adapt, overcome and improvise are the ones that really get it. We talked about the old timers and old school like it will some day come back. I have seen some rare things in my short life of select baseball. I don't have 20-30 years in the system but I have been on both sides as a parent and a coach. Seen my share of championships and disappointments. No pie in the sky, but more a realistic approach. These summer teams are packed with some of the best talent in the country and many times the difference is the coaching. Not only on the field but the ability to put together a squad that somehow meshes through all the distractions, showcases and individual commitments.
You see people go after as much talent as they can stockpile without thinking of the big picture. The end result is fractured relationships, hurt feelings and skewed view of how it all turned out. It's rare to get the occasional cohesiveness that is required to win the last game of the year. Sometimes it's that one last arm that was needed, other times it's that 11th or 12th guy that comes in during the bottom of the 6th and gets that ground ball to the right side to move a runner. I know this is nothing new to any of you, but old time baseball and old school is a memory (a great one at that). Things are changing and they always will.......
Let's see ......what were each of you wearing your senior year in High School?.............See what I mean.
A few things are clear, and then some are not. The baseball world landscape has changed, right or wrong it has changed. What separates the masses that adapt, overcome and improvise are the ones that really get it. We talked about the old timers and old school like it will some day come back. I have seen some rare things in my short life of select baseball. I don't have 20-30 years in the system but I have been on both sides as a parent and a coach. Seen my share of championships and disappointments. No pie in the sky, but more a realistic approach. These summer teams are packed with some of the best talent in the country and many times the difference is the coaching. Not only on the field but the ability to put together a squad that somehow meshes through all the distractions, showcases and individual commitments.
You see people go after as much talent as they can stockpile without thinking of the big picture. The end result is fractured relationships, hurt feelings and skewed view of how it all turned out. It's rare to get the occasional cohesiveness that is required to win the last game of the year. Sometimes it's that one last arm that was needed, other times it's that 11th or 12th guy that comes in during the bottom of the 6th and gets that ground ball to the right side to move a runner. I know this is nothing new to any of you, but old time baseball and old school is a memory (a great one at that). Things are changing and they always will.......
Let's see ......what were each of you wearing your senior year in High School?.............See what I mean.
quote:Originally posted by JAFO:
Well, it has been a delightful discussion.
A few things are clear, and then some are not. The baseball world landscape has changed, right or wrong it has changed. What separates the masses that adapt, overcome and improvise are the ones that really get it. We talked about the old timers and old school like it will some day come back. I have seen some rare things in my short life of select baseball. I don't have 20-30 years in the system but I have been on both sides as a parent and a coach. Seen my share of championships and disappointments. No pie in the sky, but more a realistic approach. These summer teams are packed with some of the best talent in the country and many times the difference is the coaching. Not only on the field but the ability to put together a squad that somehow meshes through all the distractions, showcases and individual commitments.
You see people go after as much talent as they can stockpile without thinking of the big picture. The end result is fractured relationships, hurt feelings and skewed view of how it all turned out. It's rare to get the occasional cohesiveness that is required to win the last game of the year. Sometimes it's that one last arm that was needed, other times it's that 11th or 12th guy that comes in during the bottom of the 6th and gets that ground ball to the right side to move a runner. I know this is nothing new to any of you, but old time baseball and old school is a memory (a great one at that). Things are changing and they always will.......
Let's see ......what were each of you wearing your senior year in High School?.............See what I mean.
Good post.
I don't remember what I was wearing my senior year but I do remember the bus ride home from winning the Coca-Cola classic in Sherman. We sang "I got friends in Low Places" the whole way home.
Somehow, I don't remember any individual plays though.
Tobette -- my wife and I were warned that some would not welcome our son. If people talked about the "fish", they made sure we were out of ear-shot. The kids treated PantherSon with respect and the parents were all very nice to us and accepting of our son. We were forunate because the school's first freshman baseball player, an '07, arrived on campus the year before -- and played hard, earning his spot from day one....a great kid and an exceptional athlete.
But I can sympathize with your situation. I encourage you to hold your head up, support the upperclassmen and their parents, and communicate with your son. Explain that some feel like they have "put in their time", waiting for a shot. Remind him to remain humble and to refrain from allowing negativity to creep in. Also, be a friend to the parents of younger kids that might face the same challenges.
I hope you don't think I'm telling you how to be a parent. I have a hunch he is earning the respect of his teammates. I wish him success in '06.
-PD
But I can sympathize with your situation. I encourage you to hold your head up, support the upperclassmen and their parents, and communicate with your son. Explain that some feel like they have "put in their time", waiting for a shot. Remind him to remain humble and to refrain from allowing negativity to creep in. Also, be a friend to the parents of younger kids that might face the same challenges.
I hope you don't think I'm telling you how to be a parent. I have a hunch he is earning the respect of his teammates. I wish him success in '06.
-PD
JAFO,
I agree the game has changed.
In your opinion, what has changed and why?
Are things for the better or worse?
I agree the game has changed.
In your opinion, what has changed and why?
Are things for the better or worse?
Converse Chuck Taylor All-Stars -- red high-tops -- the kind my son wouldn't be caught dead wearing today -- even though they remain "fashionable"...at 3 times the price. Okok, so I have one memory of high school athletics.
Oh...and....we lost in the Ohio baseball regional finals ('77) -- our first loss of the season -- crushing! I could feel for my '03 when they lost to Round Rock, one step away from Austin a few years ago.
Hereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee we go....strolling down memory lane. Talk about straying from the subject!
Okok, so I have one memory of high school athletics.Oh...and....we lost in the Ohio baseball regional finals ('77) -- our first loss of the season -- crushing! I could feel for my '03 when they lost to Round Rock, one step away from Austin a few years ago.
Hereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee we go....strolling down memory lane. Talk about straying from the subject!
Panther Dad, He was always supportive of the all the kids. You would think the majority of the conflict would have come from those players (junior/senior) that had put in their time, but most of the negative comments were from underclassmen and their parents. One of the reasons given was that we were outsiders (only been here 2 1/2 years). Being from Texas only helped him. I sure miss the year round baseball.
Tobette,
I think it's because the older players know that your son can help the team (because they are on the team), and the younger players are jealous that your son made it.
Give it time, in another year, your son will be the leader of the team and it will be up to him to teach these underclassmen what it takes to be a team.
I think it's because the older players know that your son can help the team (because they are on the team), and the younger players are jealous that your son made it.
Give it time, in another year, your son will be the leader of the team and it will be up to him to teach these underclassmen what it takes to be a team.
quote:Remind him to remain humble
Converse All Stars sure had a long run. Got my first pair as a high school sophomore 1962. Still remember what a big deal that was. Thanks for the reminder Panther Dad.
What was the topic again?
What was the topic again?
I had a black pair.
Ken,
IMO, you see more finely tuned athletes for one. There are still the average Joe's out there that work hard, the players that have no chance at the next level, but play the game for social aspects and some that just truly love to play the game, which is the common denominator here. Believe it or not these kids love the game. There are the other aspects that go along with it but to stay in it, even through the younger years, you gotta love what you're doing. As a coach you know that there are times you say "I'm Done with This" and then you see a kid that you just may have had a little influence on and you say, "Ok, one more time". This is what I consider the good, the change is you used to see it in every kid at some time or another, but times change and in some aspects so do we.
Every time I get into some of the pondering moments, I remind myself, that I don't live my life through these kids. I had my day, as colorful as it was, but one thing that is part of my memories was self accomplishment. The drive to compete with myself! I think some of the issues today are that with the old days gone and the new days upon us with the finely tuned athlete the bar has been raised, I really see a correlation to years ago, but on a much higher plain. There is a selfish aspect in all of us (at least everyone on here) that we will do what it takes to be better than the other guy. Sometimes the selfish aspect of it has some misguided avenues (which is where parent problems arise), but that being said it is the drive to get better, to be as good as you possibly can. Is it a good thing or a bad thing "In the Team of Schemes"? I do think that it is directly associated with the stockpiling of "finely tuned athletes" without seeing the entire picture and the drive to compile the best talent available to do what? Win!
The entire situation is predicated on the Win! Anyone that states otherwise is just not telling the truth. The bottom line in the select landscape is the Win! Is it good? I think so, but as with anything there are costs. Hurt feelings, bad memories and misguided priorities.
So I guess to answer you question Ken, I really don't know. I do know that I love doing what I am doing, I do it because I love it, I do it because it keeps me young, I do it because it creates bonds with kids mine and others that they probably won't remember but I will and I do it because maybe someday someone will look back and say, he really knew a little bit about what this is about. There are only a few things we know for sure. I would like to add one that I have shared with my kids and will stick by for my grandkids (By then it will be real old school). When the game stops being fun, it's time to stop the game.
IMO, you see more finely tuned athletes for one. There are still the average Joe's out there that work hard, the players that have no chance at the next level, but play the game for social aspects and some that just truly love to play the game, which is the common denominator here. Believe it or not these kids love the game. There are the other aspects that go along with it but to stay in it, even through the younger years, you gotta love what you're doing. As a coach you know that there are times you say "I'm Done with This" and then you see a kid that you just may have had a little influence on and you say, "Ok, one more time". This is what I consider the good, the change is you used to see it in every kid at some time or another, but times change and in some aspects so do we.
Every time I get into some of the pondering moments, I remind myself, that I don't live my life through these kids. I had my day, as colorful as it was, but one thing that is part of my memories was self accomplishment. The drive to compete with myself! I think some of the issues today are that with the old days gone and the new days upon us with the finely tuned athlete the bar has been raised, I really see a correlation to years ago, but on a much higher plain. There is a selfish aspect in all of us (at least everyone on here) that we will do what it takes to be better than the other guy. Sometimes the selfish aspect of it has some misguided avenues (which is where parent problems arise), but that being said it is the drive to get better, to be as good as you possibly can. Is it a good thing or a bad thing "In the Team of Schemes"? I do think that it is directly associated with the stockpiling of "finely tuned athletes" without seeing the entire picture and the drive to compile the best talent available to do what? Win!
The entire situation is predicated on the Win! Anyone that states otherwise is just not telling the truth. The bottom line in the select landscape is the Win! Is it good? I think so, but as with anything there are costs. Hurt feelings, bad memories and misguided priorities.
So I guess to answer you question Ken, I really don't know. I do know that I love doing what I am doing, I do it because I love it, I do it because it keeps me young, I do it because it creates bonds with kids mine and others that they probably won't remember but I will and I do it because maybe someday someone will look back and say, he really knew a little bit about what this is about. There are only a few things we know for sure. I would like to add one that I have shared with my kids and will stick by for my grandkids (By then it will be real old school). When the game stops being fun, it's time to stop the game.
Great post,
Next question....
Not knowing your age or social background, do you find todays youth as a whole in better social condition compared to generations past?
Such as respect for authority, integrity, responsibility, ect.
Next question....
Not knowing your age or social background, do you find todays youth as a whole in better social condition compared to generations past?
Such as respect for authority, integrity, responsibility, ect.
First post (also former lurker), so take it easy on me.
We had a somewhat similar experience to Tobette. My son, a 08, and two other freshmen were moved up to JV right away without ever playing a game with the freshman team. That’s where it started, with the parents mostly. They couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t leave the freshman team together. Then when he was moved up to varsity, it really got bad, with the parents. They didn’t bother to be out of ear-shot but rather right to our faces. A few of them came to the varsity games just to see them fail.
The varsity players took him under their wings and showed him nothing but support and encouragement, even the junior that he took a spot from.
I expect more of the same this coming season from the parents.
We had a somewhat similar experience to Tobette. My son, a 08, and two other freshmen were moved up to JV right away without ever playing a game with the freshman team. That’s where it started, with the parents mostly. They couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t leave the freshman team together. Then when he was moved up to varsity, it really got bad, with the parents. They didn’t bother to be out of ear-shot but rather right to our faces. A few of them came to the varsity games just to see them fail.
The varsity players took him under their wings and showed him nothing but support and encouragement, even the junior that he took a spot from.
I expect more of the same this coming season from the parents.
Loaded question!
But I will answer this way. There is no comparison to "our" generation and today's generation on the topics you mentioned. Just as there was no comparison to our predecessor's generation.
We thought the old coots lost there minds.
Soooooo, bottom line is, I see the recruiting of parents more and more prevalent. As I stated in previous posts finding the right individuals is the key for success. Making sure it meshes is a difficult thing, that once mastered can provide the desired results.
So I guess my answer would be that the “MTV Generation” doesn't get it, but neither did the “Dick Clark Generation” or the “Wolfman Jack Generation”.......It's all relative....IMO
But I will answer this way. There is no comparison to "our" generation and today's generation on the topics you mentioned. Just as there was no comparison to our predecessor's generation.
We thought the old coots lost there minds.
Soooooo, bottom line is, I see the recruiting of parents more and more prevalent. As I stated in previous posts finding the right individuals is the key for success. Making sure it meshes is a difficult thing, that once mastered can provide the desired results.
So I guess my answer would be that the “MTV Generation” doesn't get it, but neither did the “Dick Clark Generation” or the “Wolfman Jack Generation”.......It's all relative....IMO
quote:Originally posted by lionspaw:
First post (also former lurker), so take it easy on me.
We had a somewhat similar experience to Tobette. My son, a 08, and two other freshmen were moved up to JV right away without ever playing a game with the freshman team. That’s where it started, with the parents mostly. They couldn’t understand why they wouldn’t leave the freshman team together. Then when he was moved up to varsity, it really got bad, with the parents. They didn’t bother to be out of ear-shot but rather right to our faces. A few of them came to the varsity games just to see them fail.
The varsity players took him under their wings and showed him nothing but support and encouragement, even the junior that he took a spot from.
I expect more of the same this coming season from the parents.
I have seen the same thing and been a part of the same thing. It is an unfortunate time for you and the skin has to be thick. But, your son is being treated the way you want. You should calmly and quietly move a little further away. They are treating you as an outsider, so in my opinion and the betterment of team cohesiveness, you gotta ignore it. Let the kids play do the talking. IT SPEAKS VOLUMES! After all it's not about you; it's about that coach that dares to put someone in front of their child that is possibly better. These are the same people that bounce from team to team, the same people that have been in that program for 2-3 years and think they are entitled be default. These kids have to understand.....real world, people want your job, want you wife, want your car and can't do a thing about it.
quote:Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
JAFO,
I agree the game has changed.
In your opinion, what has changed and why?
Are things for the better or worse?
and by the way, is this test going to be graded! How much of it is going toward the final grade? I have seen these questions and tactics before....hmmmm, but where?
quote:Originally posted by JAFO:
Loaded question!
But I will answer this way. There is no comparison to "our" generation and today's generation on the topics you mentioned. Just as there was no comparison to our predecessor's generation.
We thought the old coots lost there minds.
Soooooo, bottom line is, I see the recruiting of parents more and more prevalent. As I stated in previous posts finding the right individuals is the key for success. Making sure it meshes is a difficult thing, that once mastered can provide the desired results.
So I guess my answer would be that the “MTV Generation” doesn't get it, but neither did the “Dick Clark Generation” or the “Wolfman Jack Generation”.......It's all relative....IMO
Man,
Your tough. Ok, how bout this one. Would you rather your children grow up in the era you did or in today's era?
quote:Originally posted by JAFO:quote:Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
JAFO,
I agree the game has changed.
In your opinion, what has changed and why?
Are things for the better or worse?
and by the way, is this test going to be graded! How much of it is going toward the final grade? I have seen these questions and tactics before....hmmmm, but where?
What exactly are you implying?
Must be a professor or teacher 
I, for one, love the era we are in. No reason to put my son thru the stigma of wearing the clothes of the 70's.....
Oh, wait, he is wearing the same clothes I wore in the 70's.
Oh, wait, he is wearing the same clothes I wore in the 70's.
Those styles do look familiar, don't they?
Guess those polyester leisure suits will be back on the rack any day now.
Guess those polyester leisure suits will be back on the rack any day now.
quote:Originally posted by JAFO:
Must be a professor or teacher
Just an old, bald, broke down ballplayer selling concrete to make a living now.
Old??? You're just a pup.
quote:Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:quote:Originally posted by JAFO:
Must be a professor or teacher
Just an old, bald, broke down ballplayer selling concrete to make a living now.
Guess that's why TXI keeps raising my cement prices.
quote:Originally posted by KellerDad:quote:Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:quote:Originally posted by JAFO:
Must be a professor or teacher
Just an old, bald, broke down ballplayer selling concrete to make a living now.
Guess that's why TXI keeps raising my cement prices.
It's concrete my friend, cement/sand/and water make concrete.
I know that Ken. It was a joke, but TXI still keeps raising my price on cement.
PD I have always been of the opinion if the player has the talent to be on the varsity then put him/her there. While he/she might get limited playing time or innings the experience of competing at a higher level is invaluable. I think most parents want the player moved down because they can't deal with the issue of their children not playing every inning. Being with players that have better or similar talent will teach them to work harder and compete with sometimes older players. Also playing at a lower level and blowing players away might give the illusion that the player is a lot better than what they are when competing with players with similar talents.
But pitchers learn by pitching.
I agree, but do you learn by blowing less athletic players away?
Personally, I don't worry too much about HS ball. The really important ball, IMHO, is the select ball played summer and fall. This is where my son plays against the best in the country.
quote:Originally posted by Texan:
Personally, I don't worry too much about HS ball. The really important ball, IMHO, is the select ball played summer and fall. This is where my son plays against the best in the country.
I could not disagree more.
Summer ball definitely provides more consistently high competition for players - especially pitchers. Alot of times #1-9 in the order are tough outs.
But the HS experience of playing for your school and community cannot be overlooked. And besides, in alot of HS districts the competition is good and once the playoffs start the competition gets real good real fast.
HS ball offers the opportuntity to go to the state tournament where thousands of fans will be traveling with the team along the way to cheer them on. There is something special about that that just cannot be duplicated in August at some tournament where it is 105 degrees no matter how good the competition is.
Personally I enjoy BOTH HS and summer select ball. I am sure going to miss my son playing for his local HS after he graduates in 07.
Didn't say that I overlooked HS ball, nor that I don't enjoy it. I do enjoy watching HS ball as well as select. I still enjoy watching a good LL game, as far as that goes.
But I don't worry too much about HS ball. I've seen too much in the way of politics to get stirred up much about whatever might happen.
And perhaps I should have been more clear - the really important ball in terms of the player's development is the select ball played in the summer & fall. Of course, you may disagree with that statement as well. But that's okay too.
But I don't worry too much about HS ball. I've seen too much in the way of politics to get stirred up much about whatever might happen.
And perhaps I should have been more clear - the really important ball in terms of the player's development is the select ball played in the summer & fall. Of course, you may disagree with that statement as well. But that's okay too.
quote:Originally posted by Texan:
And perhaps I should have been more clear - the really important ball in terms of the player's development is the select ball played in the summer & fall. Of course, you may disagree with that statement as well. But that's okay too.
Well, I will have to disagree first and this may be my opportunity to express how I really feel.
The really important ball starts everyday your son gets a chance to step on a field. Regardless of what team, when, or where, a ball player has a chance to gain just as much from one game as the other.
Thats maybe where youth players are confused. In their minds, maybe baseball starts when they decide it. Maybe it's that playoff game, or that game against a premier pitcher. Maybe it's when a scout is in the stands or maybe it's when he's at a showcase. When does the important stuff really start?
As adults, what we can teach, is that the important stuff starts everyday you wake up. Take everything the same that way you don't have to look back with regret.
Don't treat any situation differently when it comes to ethics either. Do things the right way regardless of time of year or type of team.
All these things include doing things for your team. Thats where sports is way different today than yester year.
And again, that important stuff soon won't seem so important anymore. Thats why I suggest you get as much enjoyment out of any opportunity in baseball, regardless of circumstance.
You were right on until you made this point
It shows that you have very limited experience with the kids of today. You had contact this summer with kids on one very elite team, and maybe the players on this aren't a good example of the kids of today.
The team my son played for the last few years was made up of boys that I would gladly call my own. Kids, if God forbid, were to have to go to Iraq or Afgahnistan, I would be proud to have my son serve in the same unit with.
They were respectful (most of the time, hey, they are teenagers) and they gave 100% thru a long hot summer schedule. Lynn would require the kids to show up an hour before game time for BP, and you know what? Even in mid to late July, after these young men had been playing a grueling schedule for 6 weeks after a long HS season, would show up not an hour before BP, but an hour and fifteen or an hour and thirty minutes before the games. Eager to see their buddies, to get ready to play a game that they loved.
When the games were over, they just didn't head to the trucks and leave as most would hang around and shoot the you know what for a while about the game, girls or life in general.
If our future leaders come out of the batch of young men my son has played with or against the last few years, I think our country is in good hands.
I wish I had memories as good as my son will when it comes to baseball.
quote:All these things include doing things for your team. Thats where sports is way different today than yester year.
It shows that you have very limited experience with the kids of today. You had contact this summer with kids on one very elite team, and maybe the players on this aren't a good example of the kids of today.
The team my son played for the last few years was made up of boys that I would gladly call my own. Kids, if God forbid, were to have to go to Iraq or Afgahnistan, I would be proud to have my son serve in the same unit with.
They were respectful (most of the time, hey, they are teenagers) and they gave 100% thru a long hot summer schedule. Lynn would require the kids to show up an hour before game time for BP, and you know what? Even in mid to late July, after these young men had been playing a grueling schedule for 6 weeks after a long HS season, would show up not an hour before BP, but an hour and fifteen or an hour and thirty minutes before the games. Eager to see their buddies, to get ready to play a game that they loved.
When the games were over, they just didn't head to the trucks and leave as most would hang around and shoot the you know what for a while about the game, girls or life in general.
If our future leaders come out of the batch of young men my son has played with or against the last few years, I think our country is in good hands.
I wish I had memories as good as my son will when it comes to baseball.
quote:
It shows that you have very limited experience with the kids of today. You had contact this summer with kids on one very elite team, and maybe the players on this aren't a good example of the kids of today.
Back to you, you were right except when you wrote this. Really don't care to take the time to prove anything with you.
Like I said before, good luck to you and your son with baseball and all else.