If you are a team you dress as a team

OK, I'll give the HS coach credit for thinking out of the box.

But it's a mistake.  Not worth the downside for team chemistry.

If he's got a hardworking crew, then he doesn't need a gimmick.

If he doesn't have a hardworking crew, then he's got bigger issues than can be addressed by the awarding of  belts. 

And what would be the difference between (1) awarding belts to the leaders or (2) designating those players as captains - with the "C" sewed onto the uniform?

Players often don't realize the escalating expectations as they advance through the various layers of baseball; so, the players that do understand and increase their discipline and lead by example are held up as examples to emulate.

It's often times more efficient to identify those hard workers rather than have a pure coach led team. The team's hardest workers can be used to increase team focus and lead to productive practices.

Identifying leaders, rewarding hard hard work, and teaching that success can only be achieved through that work is what the real world is all about.

In HS, i suspect he is just trying to reward and ID those kids who are separating themselves to illustrate his expectations for the team. Get used to disappointment if you can't handle the coach selecting a few leaders on the team. At son's school (college), it is done via team voting and there is a leadership team of 6 players, 3 position and 3 pitchers who police the team and lead by example. You fall in line and get the job done or you arent there next year. 

I'm on the other side of this one.  HS coaches spend a WHOLE bunch of hours with the kids.  IMO, if we are JUST teaching baseball skills, we are missing out on countless opportunities to teach and reinforce other life lessons and the importance of player character.

As far as specific methodology, that will be different with each coach.  If the spirit or intent of the lesson is positive and the message resonates, then good for the coach.   In this case, all I'm hearing is some are being rewarded for hard work and some are being given a carrot to improve.

Yes, the uniform should be the same for each.  But a leather belt instead of elastic is identical looking, just symbolic.  To me, this is similar to a player or two wearing the captain's "C" on their uni (granted, not as common in baseball, but you get the idea).

Yes, a coach should demand hard work from all.  But, rarely do you have a team that has equally hard working kids throughout the entire roster.  This is just one coach's attempt to cultivate more.

Our staff attacks from all angles... sometimes nurturing, sometimes pushing hard, sometimes praising, sometimes scolding, sometimes individually, sometimes as a group... for both baseball and for character traits.  Isn't that a good thing?

PS - Well, my slow typing fingers... I see Goosegg and Shoveit beat me to the same thought process.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

In HS, i suspect he is just trying to reward and ID those kids who are separating themselves to illustrate his expectations for the team. Get used to disappointment if you can't handle the coach selecting a few leaders on the team. At son's school (college), it is done via team voting and there is a leadership team of 6 players, 3 position and 3 pitchers who police the team and lead by example. You fall in line and get the job done or you arent there next year. 

I agree with Shoveit & Goose here. These types of motivational tactics have been around for years. Most kids just want to play ball and won't let something like this become a distraction. I honestly don't see the negative or why this would cause division. 

It's a belt.  About 95% of it's job is to hold up your pants and the other 5% is to look like the rest of the team.  Let's not overreact to a belt.

If you are a coach and you want your team to be a unified team then they all should dress the same. I don't see a problem with team leaders or a c on the uniform. If the players pay the same amount of money to play the sport then everyone should get the same thing. There are so many other ways to acknowledge hard work. 

Grindneverstop posted:

I If the players pay the same amount of money to play the sport then everyone should get the same thing. There are so many other ways to acknowledge hard work. 

I agree, in Tee Ball or LL.  This could easily slide into the "That Parent" thread.

Grindneverstop posted:

If you are a coach and you want your team to be a unified team then they all should dress the same. I don't see a problem with team leaders or a c on the uniform. If the players pay the same amount of money to play the sport then everyone should get the same thing. There are so many other ways to acknowledge hard work. 

If all you want is unity, then maybe everyone should get equal playing time.  I assume the belt is the identical color and folks in the stands would never notice the difference.  As for SHOVEIT4KS, I take exception with his comment as I would only agree for Tee Ball.  Little leaguers could benefit from this type of recognition.

Goosegg posted:

And what would be the difference between (1) awarding belts to the leaders or (2) designating those players as captains - with the "C" sewed onto the uniform?

 

To me the main difference is that team chemistry is foremost in my mind when I designate captains.

I control the result (yeah, I know...)

Whereas, awarding leather belts to the hardest working players on a hard working team isn't fail-safe from a chemistry standpoint.

Grindneverstop posted:

If you are a coach and you want your team to be a unified team then they all should dress the same. I don't see a problem with team leaders or a c on the uniform. If the players pay the same amount of money to play the sport then everyone should get the same thing. There are so many other ways to acknowledge hard work. 

Sorry, not following you here.  An embroidered C on a uni is a bigger spend than the buck or two difference in belt cost.  The C actually stands out more visually as far as dressing the same.  Both are symbolic of the same thing.  Why OK with the C but not the belt?

And, BTW, Coach is right.  I'm laughing at myself right now for putting this much verbage and thought into a player getting a different belt.  It's a BASEBALL BELT.

On a hardworking team, do you reward the hardest workers, or sanction the least hard workers?  Or just leave well enough alone?

freddy77 posted:

Goosegg posted:

And what would be the difference between (1) awarding belts to the leaders or (2) designating those players as captains - with the "C" sewed onto the uniform?

 

To me the main difference is that team chemistry is foremost in my mind when I designate captains.

I control the result (yeah, I know...)

Whereas, awarding leather belts to the hardest working players on a hard working team isn't fail-safe from a chemistry standpoint.

Freddy - I have played on and coached several teams and I have yet to be involved with one where everyone work equally as hard. It's just not realistic.

Not saying this is what happened in this situation but a lot of parents talk about how hard their kid works and they're not even at all the practice or workouts. There are and always will be players who only work hard when they coach is watching. Just as there are some who go max effort all the time. 

I just can't see why players would be mad about not getting a leather belt to the point where it disrupts chemistry.

 The parent  that ask the question  son didn't think it was just a belt. Some of the boys on team felt like they all should have gotten the same belt since they were a team. To your response about the c costing more was not and issue to me but the players  on another team felt some kind of way and if a belt ( as small as it is ) cause division then coach it should not have been done.  Love this site so much diversity! If my toe hurt from a small cut and your toe hurt from being broken does that mean I don't feel pain .Being able to identify with players make us better coaches 

HSULER,

On a hardworking team, I would rather use my "facial expressions" to encourage hard work than to be locked into a tradition of giving out the darned leather belts.  (I'm not the best looking guy. However, it's a plus for coaching).

My son knows who the hard workers on his team are by their effort at practice, seeing them at the gym after practice, and seeing them earn playing time. His team doesn't even designate captains, the more experienced, older boys know they are expected to lead. This is a non-issue IMO, coach is doing what he feels necessary to recognize hard work and motivate kids. Sounds like it's the parents whose kids haven't earned "the belt" who really have the problem with it.

freddy77 posted:

HSULER,

On a hardworking team, I would rather use my "facial expressions" to encourage hard work than to be locked into a tradition of giving out the darned leather belts.  (I'm not the best looking guy. However, it's a plus for coaching).

LoL - okay. 

Not everyone is equal, not everyone is special, and life isn't fair.  The quicker people accept these as truths the happier our planet would be!

Did it occur to anyone that those may have been the only 4 actually working to the coaches standards? Four is a weird number don't you think?

SanDiegoRealist posted:

. Sounds like it's the parents whose kids haven't earned "the belt" who really have the problem with it.

I totally agree.

It kind of makes me want to change from anti-belt to pro-belt.

Back when my son was in high school I asked the coach how he determined who would be the designated captain for the game. All this player did was take the lineup to the plate and review ground rules. It was an honorary thing.

The coach alternately chose starters who he knew would pay attention. He added during the game everyone knows who the leaders are. It's the two most talented players who are vocal and the two most talented quiet kids who lead by example. 

freddy77 posted:

On a hardworking team, do you reward the hardest workers, or sanction the least hard workers?  Or just leave well enough alone?

 

Ahhh, finally.  A question with some real meat on it.  I think it depends on whether you think you are getting the most out of them.   Are they capable of more?  Or are your efforts and focus needed more elsewhere?   Or, does that particular group or some of those individuals need continued push on all fronts?  Or, do you have a group that is in a place where they will be better off if you just roll 'em out and let 'em play?  

Generally, the coaches that are with them every day for 2-3 hours have a pretty good idea.  Sometimes, not.

...here we go with today's day and age.  Give everyone a trophy! 

How is this not like the Ohio State coach giving out buckeye helmet stickers for great plays, hard work, etc.  As the season goes on, the players and fans and coaches directly see on the helmets who is producing best for their team.  Yes, some of it is subjective but that is the coach's prerogative. 

Today's parents are insane.  I paid my money, I deserve the same.  Like an earlier post said, that is fine for LL but welcome to HS baseball and beyond.  The coaches at this point have the right to play (and reward) those producing best.  Some players dont get equal playing time (or any at all) or the leather belt in this case.  LMAO. 

Extremely hypothetical example of how that would work out at our home. 

My son - "Dad, I didn't get a leather belt. "

My response - "W...." (he interrupts)

My son - "I know. I know. Work harder!"

End of discussion. That's been my standard answer since he's starting playing.  

I see no issue with rewarding kids who put in the extra effort.  Once you reach HS is should no longer be a trophy participation sport.  Kids who excel and try harder should be rewarded.  All of us over the age of 40 turned out ok and we were not provided participation trophies and in most cases the kids who worked harder or had more talent were rewarded in some way. 

freddy77 posted:

On a hardworking team, do you reward the hardest workers, or sanction the least hard workers?  Or just leave well enough alone?

 

I say both. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Two thoughts on coaching: If you want to see it repeated, praise it.

And if you're not correcting it, you're encouraging it. 

My son is expected to work harder because that's what we teach don't need no trophy. 

hshuler posted:

Extremely hypothetical example of how that would work out at our home. 

My son - "Dad, I didn't get a leather belt. "

My response - "W...." (he interrupts)

My son - "I know. I know. Work harder!"

End of discussion. That's been my standard answer since he's starting playing.  

drop the mic... 

I'm 99.9% sure this is how the conversation would really happen:

Son - "Dad, A, B, C & D were awarded the leather belt for outstanding hustle and leadership. 

Me - "That's awesome! Did you congratulate them?"

Son - "Yes!"

Me - "Good because you should always be happy for others when good things happen if you expect the same in return."

Son - "I know."

End of discussion

....and sorry for the boring script but it's all I got.  

You would think with the season being right around the corner that a post about handing out leather belts would not be the most active thread.  

On a serious note, could the other kids go out and purchase their own leather belt or is that prohibited?

Grindneverstop posted:

My son is expected to work harder because that's what we teach don't need no trophy. 

You never praise him?  You never tell him you're proud?  You never withhold when expectations are not met or chores are not done?  You never set boundaries and then extend when earned?  Lots of different ways to go about it.  I do plenty as a coach to bring criticism from some parents.  I fully accept it as part of the job.  It is one of the ultimate "can't please everyone" situations.  I can't even begin to understand this being such an occasion for any parents.

We should rename this thread "The Leather Belt".  Then it would REALLY take off 

It's good to highlight who the hardest worker of the day, or week is ... Praising the work ethic can encourage belief in the process,, and this will lead to consistency and results in games.  

Grindneverstop posted:

My son is expected to work harder because that's what we teach don't need no trophy. 

"Good job out there kid, that hard work is really paying off"

 I used to coach one of my son's youth travel team in a pretty good organization (although our team wasn't great). Flat chemistry with low energy with zero leadership being shown the prior year so the coaches wanted to come up with some things to get kids to invest.  

My first thought was to vote on captains and have and maybe have few of the harder working kids who showed some leadership simply run stretches and runs.  Seemed like a no brainer. You would not believe how many parents got wind before we even took a vote and tried to shoot it down saying that it would be "unfair" to the kids who were not elected captain. One said I was doing it for my son (rigged I guess?).  I did it anyway and got a bunch of emails because of course my son and an assistant's son were elected by the kids (because they were the best, most well liked and hardest working I assume).    We rotated a few other kids in later in the season and it seemed to work.  Louder dugout and more investment in the games. 

 I also wanted to do helmet stickers which some have mentioned. We happened to have the same name as a great ACC college football program so I was able to get some sweet stickers online.  I set criteria for getting stickers--multiple hit games, extra base hits, key play, great pitching work, great practice day, unselfish play etc.  Each game I made notes and handed out stickers at the next practice.  At the end of the season, yeah some kids had a ton and some had just a few. I tried to come up with excuses along the way to hand them out and it was still uneven, just like the talent on the team.  No kids had any issue with this to my knowledge. Of course, the parents would send me emails about this, which I ignored.  One guy apparently left over the helmet stickers..(which was fine by us as he was gone anyway). A few years later we are playing (and murdering) his team where his kid plays SS and bats first, of course, and I notice that they have helmet stickers and his son has about twice as many as anyone else.  No joke. 

Next year the Mike Matheny letter went out with commitment letters.  No problems after that until I stopped coaching.  

Point being this is the society we live in this is how parents see things. You cannot ask them for permission or let them run your team.  

This leather belt thing is really bothering me.  To begin with, leather belts are really durable, actually keep your pants up better and only cost around $10 bucks.  The typical elastic belt costs about $7.99 and might last a season before it frays, the buckle breaks or the plastic end rips.  Just seems like the leather belt should be $25-30 based on the quality of the good.  I can't think of another product where the disparity in quality is so different but the cost is only 25% more.  Mind boggling....but as for the coach that recognized his hard working players with a tangible, albeit inexpensive reward, I like it. 

in little league I gave the player of the game from the previous game this belt to wear.  You want to talk about some PO'd parents.  I only had one kid big enough to wear it. He stunk as a player but boy did he look good in that belt.Its a belt, we are talking about a belt, not an actual game but a belt!!!

Boy do we need the season to start.... ( just joking about the LL stuff)

Your name on a line up card. The staff's praise for a job well done. Your performance when the lights were on which was created by your work ethic when they were not. The respect of your team mates and Coaches. The Jersey you get to wear. The privilege to compete on this team. That is your reward for doing what is demanded of you to do. IF there are people who don't reach the level of expectations that are required to wear that jersey they won't need a belt. They can sag in the stands or parking lot.

Everyone works hard. Everyone is held to the same standard on and off the field. Some will exceed those standards. Their reward is knowing they have done that. Our reward is they are an example for others to follow and reach even higher. If a non leather belt player scores we get 1 run. If a leather belt player scores we get 1 run. If a non leather belt player strikes out we get an out. If a leather belt player strikes out we get an out. We have all paid the same price to have the privilege to represent our school, community and family. Some have paid a higher price but we have all paid the price to be worthy. Those who have not are not with us.

We all look alike. We wear the same uniform. No one can see a difference. We all run as hard as we can. Some just run a little faster. We all play as hard as we can. Some can just play a little better. Be we all see the same thing. My brother who paid the same price I paid to be a part of this. I am not a leather belt and your a plastic belt. We are all the same.

If a Coach has players that don't work hard and they still wear the Jersey then he needs to take off his belt because he doesn't deserve it. If a coach only has 4 players that will work hard enough then he has failed them they have not failed him. If a coach only has 4 players that are worthy then give them a uniform that is exactly the same and work hard to properly build a program that 5 would want to play for the next year. And when he gets 9 he will have a team. JMO

Well said Coach May!!! 

cabbagedad posted:

Grindneverstop posted:

My son is expected to work harder because that's what we teach don't need no trophy. 

You never praise him?  You never tell him you're proud?  You never withhold when expectations are not met or chores are not done?  You never set boundaries and then extend when earned?  Lots of different ways to go about it.  I do plenty as a coach to bring criticism from some parents.  I fully accept it as part of the job.  I can't even begin to understand this being such an occasion for any parents.

We should rename this thread "The Leather Belt".  Then it would REALLY take off 

Nothing will surpass the thread title "Two Coaches in Heat".  At least for me.

I knew this would get a lot of replies..... In college, I would switch my leather belt for a cloth one because it was more comfortable.....just sayin'