If you are a team you dress as a team

OK, I'll give the HS coach credit for thinking out of the box.

But it's a mistake.  Not worth the downside for team chemistry.

If he's got a hardworking crew, then he doesn't need a gimmick.

If he doesn't have a hardworking crew, then he's got bigger issues than can be addressed by the awarding of  belts. 

And what would be the difference between (1) awarding belts to the leaders or (2) designating those players as captains - with the "C" sewed onto the uniform?

Players often don't realize the escalating expectations as they advance through the various layers of baseball; so, the players that do understand and increase their discipline and lead by example are held up as examples to emulate.

It's often times more efficient to identify those hard workers rather than have a pure coach led team. The team's hardest workers can be used to increase team focus and lead to productive practices.

Identifying leaders, rewarding hard hard work, and teaching that success can only be achieved through that work is what the real world is all about.

In HS, i suspect he is just trying to reward and ID those kids who are separating themselves to illustrate his expectations for the team. Get used to disappointment if you can't handle the coach selecting a few leaders on the team. At son's school (college), it is done via team voting and there is a leadership team of 6 players, 3 position and 3 pitchers who police the team and lead by example. You fall in line and get the job done or you arent there next year. 

I'm on the other side of this one.  HS coaches spend a WHOLE bunch of hours with the kids.  IMO, if we are JUST teaching baseball skills, we are missing out on countless opportunities to teach and reinforce other life lessons and the importance of player character.

As far as specific methodology, that will be different with each coach.  If the spirit or intent of the lesson is positive and the message resonates, then good for the coach.   In this case, all I'm hearing is some are being rewarded for hard work and some are being given a carrot to improve.

Yes, the uniform should be the same for each.  But a leather belt instead of elastic is identical looking, just symbolic.  To me, this is similar to a player or two wearing the captain's "C" on their uni (granted, not as common in baseball, but you get the idea).

Yes, a coach should demand hard work from all.  But, rarely do you have a team that has equally hard working kids throughout the entire roster.  This is just one coach's attempt to cultivate more.

Our staff attacks from all angles... sometimes nurturing, sometimes pushing hard, sometimes praising, sometimes scolding, sometimes individually, sometimes as a group... for both baseball and for character traits.  Isn't that a good thing?

PS - Well, my slow typing fingers... I see Goosegg and Shoveit beat me to the same thought process.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

In HS, i suspect he is just trying to reward and ID those kids who are separating themselves to illustrate his expectations for the team. Get used to disappointment if you can't handle the coach selecting a few leaders on the team. At son's school (college), it is done via team voting and there is a leadership team of 6 players, 3 position and 3 pitchers who police the team and lead by example. You fall in line and get the job done or you arent there next year. 

I agree with Shoveit & Goose here. These types of motivational tactics have been around for years. Most kids just want to play ball and won't let something like this become a distraction. I honestly don't see the negative or why this would cause division. 

It's a belt.  About 95% of it's job is to hold up your pants and the other 5% is to look like the rest of the team.  Let's not overreact to a belt.

If you are a coach and you want your team to be a unified team then they all should dress the same. I don't see a problem with team leaders or a c on the uniform. If the players pay the same amount of money to play the sport then everyone should get the same thing. There are so many other ways to acknowledge hard work. 

Grindneverstop posted:

I If the players pay the same amount of money to play the sport then everyone should get the same thing. There are so many other ways to acknowledge hard work. 

I agree, in Tee Ball or LL.  This could easily slide into the "That Parent" thread.

Grindneverstop posted:

If you are a coach and you want your team to be a unified team then they all should dress the same. I don't see a problem with team leaders or a c on the uniform. If the players pay the same amount of money to play the sport then everyone should get the same thing. There are so many other ways to acknowledge hard work. 

If all you want is unity, then maybe everyone should get equal playing time.  I assume the belt is the identical color and folks in the stands would never notice the difference.  As for SHOVEIT4KS, I take exception with his comment as I would only agree for Tee Ball.  Little leaguers could benefit from this type of recognition.

Goosegg posted:

And what would be the difference between (1) awarding belts to the leaders or (2) designating those players as captains - with the "C" sewed onto the uniform?

 

To me the main difference is that team chemistry is foremost in my mind when I designate captains.

I control the result (yeah, I know...)

Whereas, awarding leather belts to the hardest working players on a hard working team isn't fail-safe from a chemistry standpoint.

Grindneverstop posted:

If you are a coach and you want your team to be a unified team then they all should dress the same. I don't see a problem with team leaders or a c on the uniform. If the players pay the same amount of money to play the sport then everyone should get the same thing. There are so many other ways to acknowledge hard work. 

Sorry, not following you here.  An embroidered C on a uni is a bigger spend than the buck or two difference in belt cost.  The C actually stands out more visually as far as dressing the same.  Both are symbolic of the same thing.  Why OK with the C but not the belt?

And, BTW, Coach is right.  I'm laughing at myself right now for putting this much verbage and thought into a player getting a different belt.  It's a BASEBALL BELT.

On a hardworking team, do you reward the hardest workers, or sanction the least hard workers?  Or just leave well enough alone?

freddy77 posted:

Goosegg posted:

And what would be the difference between (1) awarding belts to the leaders or (2) designating those players as captains - with the "C" sewed onto the uniform?

 

To me the main difference is that team chemistry is foremost in my mind when I designate captains.

I control the result (yeah, I know...)

Whereas, awarding leather belts to the hardest working players on a hard working team isn't fail-safe from a chemistry standpoint.

Freddy - I have played on and coached several teams and I have yet to be involved with one where everyone work equally as hard. It's just not realistic.

Not saying this is what happened in this situation but a lot of parents talk about how hard their kid works and they're not even at all the practice or workouts. There are and always will be players who only work hard when they coach is watching. Just as there are some who go max effort all the time. 

I just can't see why players would be mad about not getting a leather belt to the point where it disrupts chemistry.

 The parent  that ask the question  son didn't think it was just a belt. Some of the boys on team felt like they all should have gotten the same belt since they were a team. To your response about the c costing more was not and issue to me but the players  on another team felt some kind of way and if a belt ( as small as it is ) cause division then coach it should not have been done.  Love this site so much diversity! If my toe hurt from a small cut and your toe hurt from being broken does that mean I don't feel pain .Being able to identify with players make us better coaches 

HSULER,

On a hardworking team, I would rather use my "facial expressions" to encourage hard work than to be locked into a tradition of giving out the darned leather belts.  (I'm not the best looking guy. However, it's a plus for coaching).

My son knows who the hard workers on his team are by their effort at practice, seeing them at the gym after practice, and seeing them earn playing time. His team doesn't even designate captains, the more experienced, older boys know they are expected to lead. This is a non-issue IMO, coach is doing what he feels necessary to recognize hard work and motivate kids. Sounds like it's the parents whose kids haven't earned "the belt" who really have the problem with it.

freddy77 posted:

HSULER,

On a hardworking team, I would rather use my "facial expressions" to encourage hard work than to be locked into a tradition of giving out the darned leather belts.  (I'm not the best looking guy. However, it's a plus for coaching).

LoL - okay. 

Not everyone is equal, not everyone is special, and life isn't fair.  The quicker people accept these as truths the happier our planet would be!

Did it occur to anyone that those may have been the only 4 actually working to the coaches standards? Four is a weird number don't you think?

SanDiegoRealist posted:

. Sounds like it's the parents whose kids haven't earned "the belt" who really have the problem with it.

I totally agree.

It kind of makes me want to change from anti-belt to pro-belt.

Back when my son was in high school I asked the coach how he determined who would be the designated captain for the game. All this player did was take the lineup to the plate and review ground rules. It was an honorary thing.

The coach alternately chose starters who he knew would pay attention. He added during the game everyone knows who the leaders are. It's the two most talented players who are vocal and the two most talented quiet kids who lead by example. 

freddy77 posted:

On a hardworking team, do you reward the hardest workers, or sanction the least hard workers?  Or just leave well enough alone?

 

Ahhh, finally.  A question with some real meat on it.  I think it depends on whether you think you are getting the most out of them.   Are they capable of more?  Or are your efforts and focus needed more elsewhere?   Or, does that particular group or some of those individuals need continued push on all fronts?  Or, do you have a group that is in a place where they will be better off if you just roll 'em out and let 'em play?  

Generally, the coaches that are with them every day for 2-3 hours have a pretty good idea.  Sometimes, not.

...here we go with today's day and age.  Give everyone a trophy! 

How is this not like the Ohio State coach giving out buckeye helmet stickers for great plays, hard work, etc.  As the season goes on, the players and fans and coaches directly see on the helmets who is producing best for their team.  Yes, some of it is subjective but that is the coach's prerogative. 

Today's parents are insane.  I paid my money, I deserve the same.  Like an earlier post said, that is fine for LL but welcome to HS baseball and beyond.  The coaches at this point have the right to play (and reward) those producing best.  Some players dont get equal playing time (or any at all) or the leather belt in this case.  LMAO. 

Extremely hypothetical example of how that would work out at our home. 

My son - "Dad, I didn't get a leather belt. "

My response - "W...." (he interrupts)

My son - "I know. I know. Work harder!"

End of discussion. That's been my standard answer since he's starting playing.  

I see no issue with rewarding kids who put in the extra effort.  Once you reach HS is should no longer be a trophy participation sport.  Kids who excel and try harder should be rewarded.  All of us over the age of 40 turned out ok and we were not provided participation trophies and in most cases the kids who worked harder or had more talent were rewarded in some way. 

freddy77 posted:

On a hardworking team, do you reward the hardest workers, or sanction the least hard workers?  Or just leave well enough alone?

 

I say both. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Two thoughts on coaching: If you want to see it repeated, praise it.

And if you're not correcting it, you're encouraging it. 

My son is expected to work harder because that's what we teach don't need no trophy. 

hshuler posted:

Extremely hypothetical example of how that would work out at our home. 

My son - "Dad, I didn't get a leather belt. "

My response - "W...." (he interrupts)

My son - "I know. I know. Work harder!"

End of discussion. That's been my standard answer since he's starting playing.  

drop the mic... 

I'm 99.9% sure this is how the conversation would really happen:

Son - "Dad, A, B, C & D were awarded the leather belt for outstanding hustle and leadership. 

Me - "That's awesome! Did you congratulate them?"

Son - "Yes!"

Me - "Good because you should always be happy for others when good things happen if you expect the same in return."

Son - "I know."

End of discussion

....and sorry for the boring script but it's all I got.  

You would think with the season being right around the corner that a post about handing out leather belts would not be the most active thread.  

On a serious note, could the other kids go out and purchase their own leather belt or is that prohibited?

Grindneverstop posted:

My son is expected to work harder because that's what we teach don't need no trophy. 

You never praise him?  You never tell him you're proud?  You never withhold when expectations are not met or chores are not done?  You never set boundaries and then extend when earned?  Lots of different ways to go about it.  I do plenty as a coach to bring criticism from some parents.  I fully accept it as part of the job.  It is one of the ultimate "can't please everyone" situations.  I can't even begin to understand this being such an occasion for any parents.

We should rename this thread "The Leather Belt".  Then it would REALLY take off 

It's good to highlight who the hardest worker of the day, or week is ... Praising the work ethic can encourage belief in the process,, and this will lead to consistency and results in games.  

Grindneverstop posted:

My son is expected to work harder because that's what we teach don't need no trophy. 

"Good job out there kid, that hard work is really paying off"

 I used to coach one of my son's youth travel team in a pretty good organization (although our team wasn't great). Flat chemistry with low energy with zero leadership being shown the prior year so the coaches wanted to come up with some things to get kids to invest.  

My first thought was to vote on captains and have and maybe have few of the harder working kids who showed some leadership simply run stretches and runs.  Seemed like a no brainer. You would not believe how many parents got wind before we even took a vote and tried to shoot it down saying that it would be "unfair" to the kids who were not elected captain. One said I was doing it for my son (rigged I guess?).  I did it anyway and got a bunch of emails because of course my son and an assistant's son were elected by the kids (because they were the best, most well liked and hardest working I assume).    We rotated a few other kids in later in the season and it seemed to work.  Louder dugout and more investment in the games. 

 I also wanted to do helmet stickers which some have mentioned. We happened to have the same name as a great ACC college football program so I was able to get some sweet stickers online.  I set criteria for getting stickers--multiple hit games, extra base hits, key play, great pitching work, great practice day, unselfish play etc.  Each game I made notes and handed out stickers at the next practice.  At the end of the season, yeah some kids had a ton and some had just a few. I tried to come up with excuses along the way to hand them out and it was still uneven, just like the talent on the team.  No kids had any issue with this to my knowledge. Of course, the parents would send me emails about this, which I ignored.  One guy apparently left over the helmet stickers..(which was fine by us as he was gone anyway). A few years later we are playing (and murdering) his team where his kid plays SS and bats first, of course, and I notice that they have helmet stickers and his son has about twice as many as anyone else.  No joke. 

Next year the Mike Matheny letter went out with commitment letters.  No problems after that until I stopped coaching.  

Point being this is the society we live in this is how parents see things. You cannot ask them for permission or let them run your team.  

This leather belt thing is really bothering me.  To begin with, leather belts are really durable, actually keep your pants up better and only cost around $10 bucks.  The typical elastic belt costs about $7.99 and might last a season before it frays, the buckle breaks or the plastic end rips.  Just seems like the leather belt should be $25-30 based on the quality of the good.  I can't think of another product where the disparity in quality is so different but the cost is only 25% more.  Mind boggling....but as for the coach that recognized his hard working players with a tangible, albeit inexpensive reward, I like it. 

in little league I gave the player of the game from the previous game this belt to wear.  You want to talk about some PO'd parents.  I only had one kid big enough to wear it. He stunk as a player but boy did he look good in that belt.Its a belt, we are talking about a belt, not an actual game but a belt!!!

Boy do we need the season to start.... ( just joking about the LL stuff)

Your name on a line up card. The staff's praise for a job well done. Your performance when the lights were on which was created by your work ethic when they were not. The respect of your team mates and Coaches. The Jersey you get to wear. The privilege to compete on this team. That is your reward for doing what is demanded of you to do. IF there are people who don't reach the level of expectations that are required to wear that jersey they won't need a belt. They can sag in the stands or parking lot.

Everyone works hard. Everyone is held to the same standard on and off the field. Some will exceed those standards. Their reward is knowing they have done that. Our reward is they are an example for others to follow and reach even higher. If a non leather belt player scores we get 1 run. If a leather belt player scores we get 1 run. If a non leather belt player strikes out we get an out. If a leather belt player strikes out we get an out. We have all paid the same price to have the privilege to represent our school, community and family. Some have paid a higher price but we have all paid the price to be worthy. Those who have not are not with us.

We all look alike. We wear the same uniform. No one can see a difference. We all run as hard as we can. Some just run a little faster. We all play as hard as we can. Some can just play a little better. Be we all see the same thing. My brother who paid the same price I paid to be a part of this. I am not a leather belt and your a plastic belt. We are all the same.

If a Coach has players that don't work hard and they still wear the Jersey then he needs to take off his belt because he doesn't deserve it. If a coach only has 4 players that will work hard enough then he has failed them they have not failed him. If a coach only has 4 players that are worthy then give them a uniform that is exactly the same and work hard to properly build a program that 5 would want to play for the next year. And when he gets 9 he will have a team. JMO

Well said Coach May!!! 

cabbagedad posted:

Grindneverstop posted:

My son is expected to work harder because that's what we teach don't need no trophy. 

You never praise him?  You never tell him you're proud?  You never withhold when expectations are not met or chores are not done?  You never set boundaries and then extend when earned?  Lots of different ways to go about it.  I do plenty as a coach to bring criticism from some parents.  I fully accept it as part of the job.  I can't even begin to understand this being such an occasion for any parents.

We should rename this thread "The Leather Belt".  Then it would REALLY take off 

Nothing will surpass the thread title "Two Coaches in Heat".  At least for me.

I knew this would get a lot of replies..... In college, I would switch my leather belt for a cloth one because it was more comfortable.....just sayin'

Coach_May posted:

Your name on a line up card. The staff's praise for a job well done. Your performance when the lights were on which was created by your work ethic when they were not. The respect of your team mates and Coaches. The Jersey you get to wear. The privilege to compete on this team. That is your reward for doing what is demanded of you to do. IF there are people who don't reach the level of expectations that are required to wear that jersey they won't need a belt. They can sag in the stands or parking lot.

Everyone works hard. Everyone is held to the same standard on and off the field. Some will exceed those standards. Their reward is knowing they have done that. Our reward is they are an example for others to follow and reach even higher. If a non leather belt player scores we get 1 run. If a leather belt player scores we get 1 run. If a non leather belt player strikes out we get an out. If a leather belt player strikes out we get an out. We have all paid the same price to have the privilege to represent our school, community and family. Some have paid a higher price but we have all paid the price to be worthy. Those who have not are not with us.

We all look alike. We wear the same uniform. No one can see a difference. We all run as hard as we can. Some just run a little faster. We all play as hard as we can. Some can just play a little better. Be we all see the same thing. My brother who paid the same price I paid to be a part of this. I am not a leather belt and your a plastic belt. We are all the same.

If a Coach has players that don't work hard and they still wear the Jersey then he needs to take off his belt because he doesn't deserve it. If a coach only has 4 players that will work hard enough then he has failed them they have not failed him. If a coach only has 4 players that are worthy then give them a uniform that is exactly the same and work hard to properly build a program that 5 would want to play for the next year. And when he gets 9 he will have a team. JMO

Some newer posters may not be familiar with Coach May. He doesn't post as frequently anymore. Because I know he's humble I won't make a long list about who he is and his accomplishments. If your kid is fortunate he will play for a Coach May. Your kid may come home grumbling because he was told the truth. But when it's all over your kid will know Coach May got every bit of ability out of him. As a parent you will know everything was fair and on the level. You will know your son will see obstacles as opportunities rather than make excuses. I'll give him one compliment. He's the EF Hutton of the board. When he posts pay attention.

Having a ball reading all the post!! I join Hsbw because I love to hear individuals different opinions about sports and how they deal with situations that comes up , and how to maneuver through the recruiting process. I can say I'm not disappointed .  I do praise my son not just for baseball . Son have a great attitude when it comes to baseball learned how to play the game the right way had so many positive coaches in his life .When he has a bad game he always find something in it that he did well. I'm the parent but he keep teaching me that it just Baseball!!

d8 posted:

I knew this would get a lot of replies..... In college, I would switch my leather belt for a cloth one because it was more comfortable.....just sayin'

This is really funny.

Come on folks,  this is ridiculous. And this is second hand info, what is the REAL story.

hshuler posted:

Extremely hypothetical example of how that would work out at our home. 

My son - "Dad, I didn't get a leather belt. "

My response - "W...." (he interrupts)

My son - "I know. I know. Work harder!"

End of discussion. That's been my standard answer since he's starting playing.  

With the risk of having DFCS visiting me, my son knows better to come home and ask me for a leather belt . . . . .

Be careful what you ask for. 

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

Extremely hypothetical example of how that would work out at our home. 

My son - "Dad, I didn't get a leather belt. "

My response - "W...." (he interrupts)

My son - "I know. I know. Work harder!"

End of discussion. That's been my standard answer since he's starting playing.  

With the risk of having DFCS visiting me, my son knows better to come home and ask me for a leather belt . . . . .

Be careful what you ask for. 

LoL 

Grindneverstop posted:

If you are a coach and you want your team to be a unified team then they all should dress the same. I don't see a problem with team leaders or a c on the uniform. If the players pay the same amount of money to play the sport then everyone should get the same thing. There are so many other ways to acknowledge hard work. 

This statement is just wrong on so many levels!

Feelin the Bern?

lol

Loving all the post! The reason I join hsbw so I could get feedback from the members about different situations that happen in baseball and to maneuver through the recruiting process. Shout out to all the coaches who have imparted so much wisdom. My son was blessed to have lots of good coaches that taught him to play the game the right way. When my son has a bad game he always find something that he did well in the game. I'm the parent  but he constantly remind me "THAT ITS JUST BASEBALL ".

Grindneverstop posted:

Loving all the post! The reason I join hsbw so I could get feedback from the members about different situations that happen in baseball and to maneuver through the recruiting process. Shout out to all the coaches who have imparted so much wisdom. My son was blessed to have lots of good coaches that taught him to play the game the right way. When my son has a bad game he always find something that he did well in the game. I'm the parent  but he constantly remind me "THAT ITS JUST BASEBALL ".

How old is your son?

2018 (16)

Grindneverstop posted:

Loving all the post! The reason I join hsbw so I could get feedback from the members about different situations that happen in baseball and to maneuver through the recruiting process. Shout out to all the coaches who have imparted so much wisdom. My son was blessed to have lots of good coaches that taught him to play the game the right way. When my son has a bad game he always find something that he did well in the game. I'm the parent  but he constantly remind me "THAT ITS JUST BASEBALL ".

I have to say, I've never heard my kid say "it's JUST baseball".

I remember our 1976  State Championship Little League team didn't even have belts,  just fancy elastic waist bands. Maybe we should go back to the good old days of Gold pants and elastic waistbands.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Grindneverstop posted:

Loving all the post! The reason I join hsbw so I could get feedback from the members about different situations that happen in baseball and to maneuver through the recruiting process. Shout out to all the coaches who have imparted so much wisdom. My son was blessed to have lots of good coaches that taught him to play the game the right way. When my son has a bad game he always find something that he did well in the game. I'm the parent  but he constantly remind me "THAT ITS JUST BASEBALL ".

I have to say, I've never heard my kid say "it's JUST baseball".

I never did either!

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Grindneverstop posted:

Loving all the post! The reason I join hsbw so I could get feedback from the members about different situations that happen in baseball and to maneuver through the recruiting process. Shout out to all the coaches who have imparted so much wisdom. My son was blessed to have lots of good coaches that taught him to play the game the right way. When my son has a bad game he always find something that he did well in the game. I'm the parent  but he constantly remind me "THAT ITS JUST BASEBALL ".

I have to say, I've never heard my kid say "it's JUST baseball".

I never did either!

I recall saying it a few times, but it was never well received.  It usually resulted in a look that said "you just don't understand".  

Grindneverstop posted:

2018 (16)

I asked because this sounds like little league stuff.

Just sayin'.

JMO

A HS coach giving four players on the team a leather belt because they worked the hardest in practice?"

So if I read this correctly, they could be the 4 worst players on the team, yet they are working the hardest in practice. They get special recognition over 10-15 kids that are more productive contributors than them? So your # 1 pitcher that throws a shutout every time has the cheap belt and the last player on the bench has the nice belt? This has to be is a joke, right?

I can see why people take the pro-belt or anti-belt (as FREDDY77 nicely put it). Like everything in life, there are pros and cons, and at the end of the day, most of us will attract to either pro- or anti-. I just want to comment from out-of-the-box…

• Hard work is generally rewarded with playing time. If you work hard and have the talent you will play; if you don’t have talent and work hard, then try another sport; if you have incredible talent without working hard, you will also play (remember Bo Jackson, he did not even like BB practices, but was a beast); if you work hard, have talent and are a bad teammate you should not be in the team because of added bad chemistry.
• As for acknowledgement by the coach of hard work, well it can be said, praised, shown, and I guess give a leather belt, or let the hard workers use ‘the’ nice bat, or let them use the fancy-looking cleats. IMHO, I think that this situation may create preferential treatment, albeit with justifications, and the ones raising hell will be the parents when their kid tells them the story and the negative repercussions will be back to the player now created by the parent. I do however agree with a coach assigning a player(s) as captain(s) because it is about team leadership that has been earned and that is awarded and carries responsibilities with the team.
• What happens if the kids with the ‘belt’ then slack off during the season because of a slump or whatever other reason? Does the coach take the belt back? :-) 

Sometimes you see the hard work and sometimes you don’t, but it will always reflect. My son (let’s call him T) was one time invited to a local scout’s showcase and after his bp, a scout asked him ‘hey T, when do you find time to work out with your school work, good grades and HS practices?’ his response to the scout was…sir, during the week I get up at 4:30am, in the gym at 5 and in school by 7:15, His coach never saw this and did not even know to this date of his work outs, but it reflected on the field.

As far as I’m concerned, excellence, proper behavior, dedication and hard work are to be expected if you want to be in a team, on and off the field; if a player doesn’t want to provide these requirements, then the player does not belong.

If I were the coach, I would give leather belts to all players in the team and say ‘this is for the hard work of the  team, some have earned it and some have not, now everyone of you show me that you have earned your belt’.

Good stuff Fourbases! When the parent asked me my opinion how I felt about the situation, this is what I said to her "what define hard work". The OP states that. To make it clear it was not my son nor his team. Since, it created so much negativity with the team IMO it should not have been done. 

Gatorade, anyone? ;-)

hshuler posted:

Gatorade, anyone? ;-)

Koolaid!

All this belt talk has me ginned up a bit and I am actually in need of a new one. Since I am in Clemson for the banquet tonight, I think I'll stroll downtown to The Tiger Sports shop and get me a new one with Tiger Paws on it. I wonder what the other parents willl think?

btw, son 92/94...up to 95, closed scrimmage game last night, 3up-3 down.

Go Tigers!

Shoveit4Ks posted:

All this belt talk has me ginned up a bit and I am actually in need of a new one. Since I am in Clemson for the banquet tonight, I think I'll stroll downtown to The Tiger Sports shop and get me a new one with Tiger Paws on it. I wonder what the other parents willl think?

btw, son 92/94...up to 95, closed scrimmage game last night, 3up-3 down.

Go Tigers!

That's awesome - congrats!

Shoveit4Ks posted:

All this belt talk has me ginned up a bit and I am actually in need of a new one. Since I am in Clemson for the banquet tonight, I think I'll stroll downtown to The Tiger Sports shop and get me a new one with Tiger Paws on it. I wonder what the other parents willl think?

btw, son 92/94...up to 95, closed scrimmage game last night, 3up-3 down.

Go Tigers!

Have fun at the banquet. Lots of good luck to your tiger.

Yes, get a purple one with orange paws, show it off for being the hardest working parent.......

And go tigers.....

Would we even be having this discussion if the coach gave the high performers leather pants? Nobody would want those!

Coach_May posted:

Your name on a line up card. The staff's praise for a job well done. Your performance when the lights were on which was created by your work ethic when they were not. The respect of your team mates and Coaches. The Jersey you get to wear. The privilege to compete on this team. That is your reward for doing what is demanded of you to do. IF there are people who don't reach the level of expectations that are required to wear that jersey they won't need a belt. They can sag in the stands or parking lot.

Everyone works hard. Everyone is held to the same standard on and off the field. Some will exceed those standards. Their reward is knowing they have done that. Our reward is they are an example for others to follow and reach even higher. If a non leather belt player scores we get 1 run. If a leather belt player scores we get 1 run. If a non leather belt player strikes out we get an out. If a leather belt player strikes out we get an out. We have all paid the same price to have the privilege to represent our school, community and family. Some have paid a higher price but we have all paid the price to be worthy. Those who have not are not with us.

We all look alike. We wear the same uniform. No one can see a difference. We all run as hard as we can. Some just run a little faster. We all play as hard as we can. Some can just play a little better. Be we all see the same thing. My brother who paid the same price I paid to be a part of this. I am not a leather belt and your a plastic belt. We are all the same.

If a Coach has players that don't work hard and they still wear the Jersey then he needs to take off his belt because he doesn't deserve it. If a coach only has 4 players that will work hard enough then he has failed them they have not failed him. If a coach only has 4 players that are worthy then give them a uniform that is exactly the same and work hard to properly build a program that 5 would want to play for the next year. And when he gets 9 he will have a team. JMO

as always, very well stated.

Belts?????

This would make more sense if we were talking about different colored belts, rather than what they are made from.

How about players on the same team wearing pants high or low?  What about some wearing sleeves while others don't?  When it is cold, some wear hoods, others don't.  Some don't use batting gloves.  Long hair, short hair, facial hair, clean shaven, jewelry, no jewelry?  These, and many other things, are all more noticeable than what material the same colored belt is made out of.

So a team can dress like a team and still the players not look identical.  In fact, it seems like the individual look is getting more popular in sports these days.  Not saying that is good or bad, it's just very obvious.

Personally, if only four players on my team got a leather belt, I would rather have what the majority is using.  And the only time I have ever noticed belts is when someone doesn't have one or if their's were a different color than the rest of the team.

Will admit... I like the identical look.  Everyone with short hair, clean shaven,  pants worn the same way, no jewelry, exact same look for every player.  Unfortunately, that is kind of rare these days.

Shoveit's belt story reminded me...

Fall before last, my wife and I traveled for the final game of son's college's fall series (also banquet weekend, I think).  Of course, this pits teammates against each other in a very competitive environment.  There is meaningful reward for the winners and consequences for the losers. 

Immediately post-game, we were surprised to see son handsomely rewarded for MVP of the series - new trainers, a signed bat from a high profile guest and some other stuff.  Did others not try as hard as he did?  That was very apparently not the case.  Did others feel cheated?  Sure didn't look like it.  Were parents of the losing team butt hurt?  Hardly.  Oh, and BTW, the split teams wear different uni's.  Which team gets to wear the favorite set?  No idea and none of them seemed to care.  But they sure were motivated to compete.  LOTS of intentional divide among the team with this structure.  Well, what do ya know, after some post-series rubbing, it really seemed to bring them all together. 

We got to experience that.  These guys were all VERY motivated by the structure of being pitted against each other in competition and by the carrot of reward and consequence.  And, guess what.  Almost every college program in the country holds some version of this same event every year.

Oh, and no one seemed to mind when he wore his new trainers, that were just a little different than everyone else's.

cabbagedad posted:

Shoveit's belt story reminded me...

Fall before last, my wife and I traveled for the final game of son's college's fall series (also banquet weekend, I think).  Of course, this pits teammates against each other in a very competitive environment.  There is meaningful reward for the winners and consequences for the losers. 

Immediately post-game, we were surprised to see son handsomely rewarded for MVP of the series - new trainers, a signed bat from a high profile guest and some other stuff.  Did others not try as hard as he did?  Very apparently not.  Did others feel cheated?  Sure didn't look like it.  Were parents of the losing team butt hurt?  Hardly.  Oh, and BTW, the split teams wear different uni's.  Which team gets to wear the favorite set?  No idea and none of them seemed to care.  But they sure were motivated to compete.  LOTS of intentional divide among the team with this structure.  Well, what do ya know, after some post-series rubbing, it really seemed to bring them all together. 

We got to experience that.  These guys were all VERY motivated by the structure of being pitted against each other in competition and by the carrot of reward and consequence.  And, guess what.  Almost every college program in the country holds some version of this same event every year.

Oh, and no one seemed to mind when he wore his new trainers, that were just a little different than everyone else's.

I've had the privilege of working several of these series at the end of fall ball. It's like a rivalry series without the bad blood and some of the best times I've ever had. If they think you've missed a call, you are going to hear it--and usually it's with things they've been practicing.

RJM posted:

Coach_May posted:

Your name on a line up card. The staff's praise for a job well done. Your performance when the lights were on which was created by your work ethic when they were not. The respect of your team mates and Coaches. The Jersey you get to wear. The privilege to compete on this team. That is your reward for doing what is demanded of you to do. IF there are people who don't reach the level of expectations that are required to wear that jersey they won't need a belt. They can sag in the stands or parking lot.

Everyone works hard. Everyone is held to the same standard on and off the field. Some will exceed those standards. Their reward is knowing they have done that. Our reward is they are an example for others to follow and reach even higher. If a non leather belt player scores we get 1 run. If a leather belt player scores we get 1 run. If a non leather belt player strikes out we get an out. If a leather belt player strikes out we get an out. We have all paid the same price to have the privilege to represent our school, community and family. Some have paid a higher price but we have all paid the price to be worthy. Those who have not are not with us.

We all look alike. We wear the same uniform. No one can see a difference. We all run as hard as we can. Some just run a little faster. We all play as hard as we can. Some can just play a little better. Be we all see the same thing. My brother who paid the same price I paid to be a part of this. I am not a leather belt and your a plastic belt. We are all the same.

If a Coach has players that don't work hard and they still wear the Jersey then he needs to take off his belt because he doesn't deserve it. If a coach only has 4 players that will work hard enough then he has failed them they have not failed him. If a coach only has 4 players that are worthy then give them a uniform that is exactly the same and work hard to properly build a program that 5 would want to play for the next year. And when he gets 9 he will have a team. JMO

Some newer posters may not be familiar with Coach May. He doesn't post as frequently anymore. Because I know he's humble I won't make a long list about who he is and his accomplishments. If your kid is fortunate he will play for a Coach May. Your kid may come home grumbling because he was told the truth. But when it's all over your kid will know Coach May got every bit of ability out of him. As a parent you will know everything was fair and on the level. You will know your son will see obstacles as opportunities rather than make excuses. I'll give him one compliment. He's the EF Hutton of the board. When he posts pay attention.

i'm fairly new to the board and picked up on this right away. I absolutely love his takes. 

Matt13 posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Shoveit's belt story reminded me...

Fall before last, my wife and I traveled for the final game of son's college's fall series (also banquet weekend, I think).  Of course, this pits teammates against each other in a very competitive environment.  There is meaningful reward for the winners and consequences for the losers. 

Immediately post-game, we were surprised to see son handsomely rewarded for MVP of the series - new trainers, a signed bat from a high profile guest and some other stuff.  Did others not try as hard as he did?  Very apparently not.  Did others feel cheated?  Sure didn't look like it.  Were parents of the losing team butt hurt?  Hardly.  Oh, and BTW, the split teams wear different uni's.  Which team gets to wear the favorite set?  No idea and none of them seemed to care.  But they sure were motivated to compete.  LOTS of intentional divide among the team with this structure.  Well, what do ya know, after some post-series rubbing, it really seemed to bring them all together. 

We got to experience that.  These guys were all VERY motivated by the structure of being pitted against each other in competition and by the carrot of reward and consequence.  And, guess what.  Almost every college program in the country holds some version of this same event every year.

Oh, and no one seemed to mind when he wore his new trainers, that were just a little different than everyone else's.

I've had the privilege of working several of these series at the end of fall ball. It's like a rivalry series without the bad blood and some of the best times I've ever had. If they think you've missed a call, you are going to hear it--and usually it's with things they've been practicing.

Son's high school recently played World Series - two teams picked by senior captains - which was best of three. Winners got steak and losers got dogs at the cookout afterwards. Let's just say they got after it and it wasn't about the steak. 

SanDiegoRealist posted:

Would we even be having this discussion if the coach gave the high performers leather pants? Nobody would want those!

I dunno.  I kinda like mine.

We're going with the sansabelt pants this year as to keep parents happy. Tried to play with our shirts un-tucked the first scrimmage but too much dirt up shirts.

In HS, our HC rewarded players who brought in sponsors with various team swag. There were 3 levels and the top was a $500 sponsorship. If you got that one, you got the all the swag, if you only got the minimum, you got zilch. His philosophy was/is get sponsors, have a team banquet w/ silent auction and host a golf tourney...that covered the budget.

Do those and no one has to sell cards, hams and other crap, hold raffles etc and we can just play baseball. It has worked for a long time and i can tell you the volunteering from the parents is where the real rubber hits the road and as you can probably guess, it was the few who did the majority of the work.

hshuler posted:

I'm 99.9% sure this is how the conversation would really happen:

Son - "Dad, A, B, C & D were awarded the leather belt for outstanding hustle and leadership. 

Me - "That's awesome! Did you congratulate them?"

Son - "Yes!"

Me - "Good because you should always be happy for others when good things happen if you expect the same in return."

Son - "I know."

End of discussion

....and sorry for the boring script but it's all I got.  

 

Shu funny talking to you over here lol. But this is the real you right there. Very few people I have known in person or on line that are happier and more interested in other people's success - that's one of the many things that make You a good guy.  As for the belt thing...  who cares. If it motivates I say go for it. Obviously it does cause those without the belt clearly get upset. So work to get one!