At the risk of talking to myself....
I love baseball. My sons and I have worked hard at it and had fun with it since they could walk. One attends and the other graduated from a school (Barrington High School) where baseball is taken seriously, and there has been a reasonable amount of success. It is a big school (2800 more or less) so we are well into class 4. I would much rather see them win a state championship than to see the Cubs win a WS. But.........
I love the competition, as do most of us here on the HSBBW. It is great for the kids win or lose...lessons that can't be taught many other ways. I am going to go out on a limb and say that a kid is more likely to have a good baseball experience at a small school than a big one. Maybe not the blue-chip player but the average player. Many good ballplayers at big schools never get on the field. Not great in many cases but good. Playing the game and being part of the team are still the biggest and best reasons to play the game.....most kids will never sniff a State Championship even with the new system. If your goal is to win a State Trophy (not a bad one) you better not be easily dissapointed no matter how good you are or how good your team is because it is just so easy to lose one baseball game.....and if you are a first year senior starter...that was your only chance.
My point? Championships are great, but it still does come to playing ball...being on a team....most players (isn't that what this is all about?) won't know the difference except it will take one game less to win the Championship, and that good small team won't be facing a school 3 or more times their size in the playoffs.....which no matter how you cut it doesn't make sense especially for the small public school.
No, my kid won't get to play JCA if they get downstate, or a few others that will miss 4A...but New Trier, The Napervilles, Lockport, The Linclon-Ways, Schaumburg, St. Charles, Oak Park and other schools, some famous every year and some not, will still be in their way.
I have a feeling that the kids won't care......and I don't think it's about giving each kid a trophy either.
Added later: Almost all Private Schools should be in Class 4A.
FastballDad:
Well said.
Well said.
Thanks Woody.
P.S. Everyone talks about the time David slew Goliath.....but no one talks about the countless times Goliath stomped the "Davids" into the earth before that happened one time.
P.S. Everyone talks about the time David slew Goliath.....but no one talks about the countless times Goliath stomped the "Davids" into the earth before that happened one time.
GREAT point, fsb.
the problem i have and i can only really state this for my alma matter is that we will not be competing at the highest level of competition so when and if we win a state title all we will hear is about the recruiting agian just like football ... they should allow teams to go to the board and have a vote allowing a team that wants to compete at the highest level to do so... also with this system it takes out many of the big games that my school looks forward to every year.... my two main problems with this is one we will not be competing at the highest level of competition and we are taking out the games that the high school kids live for
Styles...it would be classy for a team or school to petition to play in a higher level playoff, and I admire your desire to compete against the best. I think that the complaints filed by schools effected by the multiplier shows that schools really don't want to play up for the most part.
I just saw that it doesn't take effect until 2007-2008, so it will not effect my son. Maybe he will play JCA downstate sometime.
Everyone always has a right to their own opinion. Just because we disagree with those of you that want multiple classes in baseball doesn't mean we are "beating up" on HS athletes. That thought is actually ridiculous.
I will never be convinced that four classes is a good idea. I have already heard all the arguments, and all I have to do is look at football to know that I will never support this system (or at least I won't until the point when someone suggests we move to 6 or 8 classes--at that point, I will be a huge fan of the 4 class system.)
However, it is what it is. We have this insane notion that every kid needs to be a "winner". The IHSA (an organization filled with brilliant "thinkers") has apparently got it's way--mostly due to the lax attitude of those schools that didn't voice their objections strong enough. So, we are now stuck with what we created.
Maybe the forward thinkers at the IHSA will soon turn the whole thing into T-Ball and we'll just stop keeping score altogether. That way everyone will always be a "winner".
I will never be convinced that four classes is a good idea. I have already heard all the arguments, and all I have to do is look at football to know that I will never support this system (or at least I won't until the point when someone suggests we move to 6 or 8 classes--at that point, I will be a huge fan of the 4 class system.)
However, it is what it is. We have this insane notion that every kid needs to be a "winner". The IHSA (an organization filled with brilliant "thinkers") has apparently got it's way--mostly due to the lax attitude of those schools that didn't voice their objections strong enough. So, we are now stuck with what we created.
Maybe the forward thinkers at the IHSA will soon turn the whole thing into T-Ball and we'll just stop keeping score altogether. That way everyone will always be a "winner".
Those extra two trophy awarded in June will be the downfall of high school baseball as we know it. Just think...now a school like Immaculate Conception in Elmhurst or Pickneyville High School in ...Pickneyville, might have a chance to play for a championship someday. Oh yea, and receive a trophy too.
The arguement for skipping high schoolbaseball and playing travel ball only, just became much stronger. The competition to the State title will be a cake walk now.
Do you think that part about T-ball it might be true? And not keeping score on top of it. Sweet Jesus, what will become of the game!!
-----------------------------------
[quote]"Maybe the forward thinkers at the IHSA will soon turn the whole thing into T-Ball and we'll just stop keeping score altogether. That way everyone will always be a "winner".
------------------------------------
Thats it...we won't be part the master plan of those Commies in IHSA. From now on just Travel baseball and s****r for my kids. Did I just say the "s"word?
The arguement for skipping high schoolbaseball and playing travel ball only, just became much stronger. The competition to the State title will be a cake walk now.
Do you think that part about T-ball it might be true? And not keeping score on top of it. Sweet Jesus, what will become of the game!!
-----------------------------------
[quote]"Maybe the forward thinkers at the IHSA will soon turn the whole thing into T-Ball and we'll just stop keeping score altogether. That way everyone will always be a "winner".
------------------------------------
Thats it...we won't be part the master plan of those Commies in IHSA. From now on just Travel baseball and s****r for my kids. Did I just say the "s"word?
Went to the IHSA site to see the voting on the 4 class baseball system....
273 of 452 votes were in favor...although there are 752 member schools...only 452 sent back the questionnaires. Likely most of the schools that have tiny enrollments and have ag classes as part of the curriculum.
That is what the big boys get. They don't pay attention to the paperwork, they get this type of nonsense shoved down their throats.
Interesting on the Hales Franciscan decision...Took the IHSA 3 years for their paperwork to catch up to the paperwork violation by Hales. How did they handle it?
Obviously incompetent handling at both ends....
Why they strip the kids of their 2005 State Championship!
Activities/Decisions like this are precisely why, when someone tells me that they have a Ed.D, I pay no attention to what they say and start laughing.
In my opinion....Little towns. Little ideas.
273 of 452 votes were in favor...although there are 752 member schools...only 452 sent back the questionnaires. Likely most of the schools that have tiny enrollments and have ag classes as part of the curriculum.
That is what the big boys get. They don't pay attention to the paperwork, they get this type of nonsense shoved down their throats.
Interesting on the Hales Franciscan decision...Took the IHSA 3 years for their paperwork to catch up to the paperwork violation by Hales. How did they handle it?
Obviously incompetent handling at both ends....
Why they strip the kids of their 2005 State Championship!
Activities/Decisions like this are precisely why, when someone tells me that they have a Ed.D, I pay no attention to what they say and start laughing.
In my opinion....Little towns. Little ideas.
Wow.
quote:Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
In my opinion....Little towns. Little ideas.
It's good thing it is an opinion because it's wrong. I guess my opinion would be that big towns can lead to big egos and even more ignorance on a topic.
SI...Coach.
I don't think so. How can someone's "opinion" be wrong. It is an opinion.
What would some of these towns do without a Casey gas station/convenience store?
Been in little tiny towns of a few hundred/thousand to cities with a million dreams.
When I read the IHSA statistics about the decision to go to 4 classes for baseball and other sports, I realized that the big schools don't even care because they couldn't possibly be affected by the IHSA decisions because the IHSA class decisions make sense only for the tiny schools in the State.
I'm not suggesting for a minute that the smallish schools in the State don't have players that can truly play at any level. They certainly don't have "numbers" of players but they do have some players that could compete at any levels.
The problem, for me, is someone being called a State Champion....Should be reserved for the best-of-the-best and it should mean something.
I don't think so. How can someone's "opinion" be wrong. It is an opinion.
What would some of these towns do without a Casey gas station/convenience store?
Been in little tiny towns of a few hundred/thousand to cities with a million dreams.
When I read the IHSA statistics about the decision to go to 4 classes for baseball and other sports, I realized that the big schools don't even care because they couldn't possibly be affected by the IHSA decisions because the IHSA class decisions make sense only for the tiny schools in the State.
I'm not suggesting for a minute that the smallish schools in the State don't have players that can truly play at any level. They certainly don't have "numbers" of players but they do have some players that could compete at any levels.
The problem, for me, is someone being called a State Champion....Should be reserved for the best-of-the-best and it should mean something.
There are 752 schools. If each class has the same amount of teams, that is 188 teams in each class. If you win a division with 188 other teams, that is tough.
If big schools beat up on tiny schools, how does that make the championship more real?
The problenm is, I guess, that the big school doesn't want to share the name 'state champion'?
Thaey don't. Thaey are the Class 1A state champ.
Who cares if there is a Class 4A state champ. Why would that bother the big schools? I don't get it.
If big schools beat up on tiny schools, how does that make the championship more real?
The problenm is, I guess, that the big school doesn't want to share the name 'state champion'?
Thaey don't. Thaey are the Class 1A state champ.
Who cares if there is a Class 4A state champ. Why would that bother the big schools? I don't get it.
I can't believe I mad e the same typo twice. It is they, not theay.
bballdad1954...Dad....I understand your position, too.
I just don't agree.
I'm against having all of these "State Champions".
One or two is enough in each division, A or AA.
I understand how many of you, especially those who have students in "smallish" schools; or, those that teach or coach or live in areas with small schools, would disagree.
That is fine.
I'm fine with the decision that the IHSA made.
They are the policymakers of their membership.
Heck, if I owned a trophy store, a ring company, or a winter jacket store (those with the leather sleeves that cost $250 or more), I would want 50 divisions.
More fodder for our meeting on February 18th in Rosemont!
So far planning for pizza and pop. From 2-4 p.m.
I just don't agree.
I'm against having all of these "State Champions".
One or two is enough in each division, A or AA.
I understand how many of you, especially those who have students in "smallish" schools; or, those that teach or coach or live in areas with small schools, would disagree.
That is fine.
I'm fine with the decision that the IHSA made.
They are the policymakers of their membership.
Heck, if I owned a trophy store, a ring company, or a winter jacket store (those with the leather sleeves that cost $250 or more), I would want 50 divisions.
More fodder for our meeting on February 18th in Rosemont!
So far planning for pizza and pop. From 2-4 p.m.
I've been reading the comments about this most interesting topic. For what it is worth (probably not much), I have to side with bballdad and SI and others that don't see this as too big a deal. I doubt that the Class 2A, 3A,4A, or 5A or even 6A State Football Champions are any less proud of their trophy that the 7A or 8A champs. What can possibly be wrong to compete against similarly sized schools and persevere and bring home the championship. I don't think for one moment that it lessens the accomplishment of the big schools and I cannot see the reasoning behind wanting to bury the small schools, the small cities and towns and the people that live there. Are their student athletes working any less hard than those at the big schools? Don't they also have to juggle academics with athletics? In many cases these smaller schools don't have anywhere near the financial resources that the big districts have and just maintaining a playable field can be quite an accomplishment.
Now, all that being said, I'm not a fan of bureaucratic institutions like the IHSA, NCAA and others as they rarely seem to GET IT, but in this case, I don't see the harm in their decision. JMO.
Now, all that being said, I'm not a fan of bureaucratic institutions like the IHSA, NCAA and others as they rarely seem to GET IT, but in this case, I don't see the harm in their decision. JMO.
Beenthere,
I would have to disagree with an opinion can't be wrong. If I said that in my opinion 2+2=5 I would be wrong. If you do not like the idea of mulitple state championships, then you should let Carmi, Harrisburg, and Marion combine for post season play. They would still be about 1000 students less then the 2005 AA state champion. I don't see a problem with class tournaments. Having schools with enrollments that range from 100-3500+, I think not looking at multiple classes would be small minded.
I would have to disagree with an opinion can't be wrong. If I said that in my opinion 2+2=5 I would be wrong. If you do not like the idea of mulitple state championships, then you should let Carmi, Harrisburg, and Marion combine for post season play. They would still be about 1000 students less then the 2005 AA state champion. I don't see a problem with class tournaments. Having schools with enrollments that range from 100-3500+, I think not looking at multiple classes would be small minded.
Your right an opinion can't be wrong. My bad on that. Your "opinion" is more of a judgement in my estimation. I have lived in tiny towns and a large city and love each. Those tiny towns have made it without the Casey's for some time and their characters will stick with them with or without more classes. I guess to all of those who dislike the 4 class system will have to deal with a big Tough S---.
Coach Johnson and SI....
Came back from shopping and my wife, a Charleston, Illinois, native, disagrees with me, too.
She says I'm too narrow minded and "What's wrong with kids being State Champions at smaller schools?"...."Thing of the kids", she kept on saying.
Ok...I'm eating coconut cream pie!
Came back from shopping and my wife, a Charleston, Illinois, native, disagrees with me, too.
She says I'm too narrow minded and "What's wrong with kids being State Champions at smaller schools?"...."Thing of the kids", she kept on saying.
Ok...I'm eating coconut cream pie!
Wow!!!!!
quote:Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
In my opinion....Little towns. Little ideas.
You didn't mean this did you?
Since you don't really know who sent in their votes, you only speculate who did and you speculate that is is all of the small schools screwing up the system while the large schools are innocent of any involvment. Perhaps another Northern vs Southern Illinois argument. The State of Cook County vs the world. LOL! Perhaps it's some of those area schools of yours that are tired of eliminating their first 2 opponents by scores of 35-0 before they reach real games in the playoffs that have voted for a change. LOL! Besides, some might suggest that the real "best team" doesn't make it there because they sometimes lose to some small school ace on their way to greatness. Perhaps they want to eliminate all of those smaller school aces. 
Some other thoughts are:
Will the location of the state tournament games be moved geographically so that that site for each class reflects a central location for that class?
Could this bring about the creation of new conferences while destroying old ones. I know that this has been a discussion in our area.
Is there some type of time frame study to determine the effectivness of this change? (Beenthere would volunteer to be on this committee for sure.
)Isc59, I've eaten many of those pies!!! They are the best in the world. Of course, I have to drive into ememy territory to eat there. Makes me uncomfortable knowing I have a Triad Baseball Sticker on my car when we walk in to eat. LOL!
Man, all those kids from the NCAA D3 champions, Wisconsin-Whitewater must feel like scrubs since they didn't have to play Texas, Florida, ASU and all those big old D1's. I think we should abolish the division system and have one big old tournament with all the colleges in the country. That'd be fair, wouldn't it? First game: Texas vs. Wheaton College.
Different circumstances? A little.
But the point holds.
Different circumstances? A little.
But the point holds.
i would be a bigger fan of the three class system instead of the four class system!!!!! this would help the smaller schools compete and not lower the competition of some of the moderate to bigger schools
I think I've got the solution. If there are 752 IHSA member schools, we could simply have 376 classes. That way...every year 50% of the HS baseball players in the state could end up "CHAMPIONS". We'd certainly have the state with the most "confident" group of HS baseball players in the nation!
Although, I "shudder" to think what it would do to the egos of those that couldn't garner a championship trophy. But, then again, at least they'd end up as "runners up." That should salve their wounded egos.
And, I am sure with 376 class champions, we'd remember who won class 374 and below as much as we'd remember who will win class 1A and 2A in the future.
Before all you small-schoolers get your jocks in a bunch. I hope you are smart enough to realize most of what I am saying is "tounge-in-cheek." As I said before (and Beethere pointed out), the big schools most likely dropped the ball in sending in their paperwork--so we get what we deserve for being asleep at the wheel.
But, I will argue this--#1 out of 188 is LESS meaningful than #1 out of 376, no matter how you serve it up.
Although, I "shudder" to think what it would do to the egos of those that couldn't garner a championship trophy. But, then again, at least they'd end up as "runners up." That should salve their wounded egos.
And, I am sure with 376 class champions, we'd remember who won class 374 and below as much as we'd remember who will win class 1A and 2A in the future.
Before all you small-schoolers get your jocks in a bunch. I hope you are smart enough to realize most of what I am saying is "tounge-in-cheek." As I said before (and Beethere pointed out), the big schools most likely dropped the ball in sending in their paperwork--so we get what we deserve for being asleep at the wheel.
But, I will argue this--#1 out of 188 is LESS meaningful than #1 out of 376, no matter how you serve it up.
only 9 other states have 2 classes. It will be a good move in the long run. football has has success since the move to expand the classes.
K13...you make some good points. There are some facts to check against. Since Baseball went to a two class system in 1978 it appears that only one public school (Harrisburg) has won the Class AA Championship that will not be a Class 4A team in the new system. The only other smaller schools to win have been Catholic Schools...Marist, Springfield Griffin, JCA, etc. So maybe the reality is that you have not been competing against 376 teams all along....just the 188 that fit in the big school category.
This is a 30 year history.....it appears that the current system not only puts the tiny schools in a tough spot, but the bigger than average as well.
Just some numbers......
This is a 30 year history.....it appears that the current system not only puts the tiny schools in a tough spot, but the bigger than average as well.
Just some numbers......
Agall...My comments are made not knowing anything about UW-Whitewater's baseball program save a visit to the site just moments ago.
Here is there schedule/results from last season:
UW-Whitewater 11, SUNY-Cortland 4 (5/31/05 at Grand Chute, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 10, College of Wooster 7 (5/29/05 at Grand Chute, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 7, Chapman University 6 (May 28, 2005 at Grand Chute, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 8, Trinity Coll. 3 (5/27/05 at Grand Chute, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 7, Stevens Point 3 (May 22, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Stevens Point 13, UW-Whitewater 5 (May 21, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 6, St. Scholastic 0 (May 20, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 7, St. Thomas 4 (May 19, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Stevens Point 6, UW-Whitewater 5 (5/15/05 at Wis. Rapids, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 4, UW-Stevens Point 3 (5/14/05 at Wis. Rapids, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 12, UW-Platteville 1 (5/14/05 at Wis. Rapids, Wis.)
UW-Stevens Point 15, UW-Whitewater 4 (5/14/05 at Wis. Rapids, Wis.)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 17, UW-Plattville 7 (May 13, 2005 at Wisconsin Rapids, WI)
UW-Whitewater 5, UW-Stevens Point 0 (5/7/05 at Stevens Point, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 5, UW-Stevens Point 3 (5/7/05 at Stevens Point, Wis.)
UW-Stevens Point 21, UW-Whitewater 8 (5/6/05 at Stevens Point, Wis.)
UW-Stevens Point 10, UW-Whitewater 0 (5/6/05 at Stevens Point, Wis.)
UWW 11, Concordia Wisconsin 9 (May 04, 2005 at Concordia Wisconsin)
UWW 6, Concordia Wisconsin 3 (May 04, 2005 at Concordia Wisconsin)
UW-Whitewater 20, UW-Oshkosh 13 (May 01, 2005 at Whitewater)
UW-Whitewater 18, UW-Oshkosh 12 (May 01, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 9, UW-Oshkosh 3 (Apr 30, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 2, UW-Oshkosh 0 (Apr 30, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 10, UW-La Crosse 0 (Apr 24, 2005 at La Crosse, Wis.)
#1 UW-Whitewater 10, UW-La Crosse 0 (Apr 24, 2005 at La Crosse, WI)
#1 UW-Whitewater 18, UW-La Crosse 4 (Apr 23, 2005 at La Crosse, WI)
#1 UW-Whitewater 9, UW-La Crosse 5 (Apr 23, 2005 at La Crosse, WI)
#1 UW-Whitewater 13, Lawrence 1 (Apr 21, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 12, Lawrence University 6 (Apr 21, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 6, UW-Stout 3 (Apr 17, 2005 at Whitewater, Wi)
UW-Whitewater 14, UW-Stout 0 (Apr 17, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 16, UW-Stout 13 (Apr 16, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Stout 14, Wisconsin-Whitewater 4 (Apr 16, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Platteville 5, Wisconsin-Whitewater 4 (Apr 14, 2005 at Platteville, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 13, UW-Platteville 0 (Apr 14, 2005 at Platteville, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 24, UW-Superor 1 (Apr 03, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 20, UW-Superor 0 (Apr 03, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 12, UW-Superior 1 (Apr 02, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 12, UW-Superior 1 (Apr 02, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 8, UW-Plattville 4 (Mar 29, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 22, UW-Plattville 4 (Mar 29, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 25, John Carroll 1 (Mar 25, 2005 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 9, Washington & Jeffers 4 (Mar 24, 2005 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 19, Grove City College 2 (Mar 23, 2005 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 14, Plymouth State Univ. 4 (Mar 22, 2005 at Fort Myers, Florida)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 3, U. of St. Thomas 2 (Mar 22, 2005 at Fort Myers, Florida)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 10, Otterbein College 7 (3/20/05 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 10, Bethel University 9 (3/19/05 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 9, Bethel University 5 (3/19/05 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 18, Knox College 2 (3/18/05 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 3, Worcester State 2 (3/19/05 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 9, #11 Macalester 4 (Mar 10, 2005 at Minneapolis, Minn.)
I can honestly say that I've only heard of one or two of the teams that they played.
Too, I don't think that they should be a "national champion" of anything in baseball unless they've played teams from Florida, Texas and California---and beaten them!
Considering the Madison doesn't have baseball, UWWhitewater looks like the Wisconsin State Champion...and that is about it.
Saw where one of the pitchers was drafted in the 6th round and another player in the hamburger rounds. So, they have some talent.
Hollow "championship" when you really don't play any of the teams in the South/Georgia and Florida; Texas teams; or, California teams...looks like they head South to play hamburger teams in the tag-along series each spring.
Looks like they should schedule John Carroll (who is he?) LaCrosse (I thought that was another sport?) and Superior (can't possibly be) more often and they would go 52-0.
Go Bears today....
Here is there schedule/results from last season:
UW-Whitewater 11, SUNY-Cortland 4 (5/31/05 at Grand Chute, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 10, College of Wooster 7 (5/29/05 at Grand Chute, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 7, Chapman University 6 (May 28, 2005 at Grand Chute, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 8, Trinity Coll. 3 (5/27/05 at Grand Chute, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 7, Stevens Point 3 (May 22, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Stevens Point 13, UW-Whitewater 5 (May 21, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 6, St. Scholastic 0 (May 20, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 7, St. Thomas 4 (May 19, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Stevens Point 6, UW-Whitewater 5 (5/15/05 at Wis. Rapids, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 4, UW-Stevens Point 3 (5/14/05 at Wis. Rapids, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 12, UW-Platteville 1 (5/14/05 at Wis. Rapids, Wis.)
UW-Stevens Point 15, UW-Whitewater 4 (5/14/05 at Wis. Rapids, Wis.)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 17, UW-Plattville 7 (May 13, 2005 at Wisconsin Rapids, WI)
UW-Whitewater 5, UW-Stevens Point 0 (5/7/05 at Stevens Point, Wis.)
UW-Whitewater 5, UW-Stevens Point 3 (5/7/05 at Stevens Point, Wis.)
UW-Stevens Point 21, UW-Whitewater 8 (5/6/05 at Stevens Point, Wis.)
UW-Stevens Point 10, UW-Whitewater 0 (5/6/05 at Stevens Point, Wis.)
UWW 11, Concordia Wisconsin 9 (May 04, 2005 at Concordia Wisconsin)
UWW 6, Concordia Wisconsin 3 (May 04, 2005 at Concordia Wisconsin)
UW-Whitewater 20, UW-Oshkosh 13 (May 01, 2005 at Whitewater)
UW-Whitewater 18, UW-Oshkosh 12 (May 01, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 9, UW-Oshkosh 3 (Apr 30, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 2, UW-Oshkosh 0 (Apr 30, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 10, UW-La Crosse 0 (Apr 24, 2005 at La Crosse, Wis.)
#1 UW-Whitewater 10, UW-La Crosse 0 (Apr 24, 2005 at La Crosse, WI)
#1 UW-Whitewater 18, UW-La Crosse 4 (Apr 23, 2005 at La Crosse, WI)
#1 UW-Whitewater 9, UW-La Crosse 5 (Apr 23, 2005 at La Crosse, WI)
#1 UW-Whitewater 13, Lawrence 1 (Apr 21, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 12, Lawrence University 6 (Apr 21, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 6, UW-Stout 3 (Apr 17, 2005 at Whitewater, Wi)
UW-Whitewater 14, UW-Stout 0 (Apr 17, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Whitewater 16, UW-Stout 13 (Apr 16, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Stout 14, Wisconsin-Whitewater 4 (Apr 16, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
UW-Platteville 5, Wisconsin-Whitewater 4 (Apr 14, 2005 at Platteville, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 13, UW-Platteville 0 (Apr 14, 2005 at Platteville, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 24, UW-Superor 1 (Apr 03, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 20, UW-Superor 0 (Apr 03, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 12, UW-Superior 1 (Apr 02, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 12, UW-Superior 1 (Apr 02, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 8, UW-Plattville 4 (Mar 29, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 22, UW-Plattville 4 (Mar 29, 2005 at Whitewater, WI)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 25, John Carroll 1 (Mar 25, 2005 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 9, Washington & Jeffers 4 (Mar 24, 2005 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 19, Grove City College 2 (Mar 23, 2005 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 14, Plymouth State Univ. 4 (Mar 22, 2005 at Fort Myers, Florida)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 3, U. of St. Thomas 2 (Mar 22, 2005 at Fort Myers, Florida)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 10, Otterbein College 7 (3/20/05 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 10, Bethel University 9 (3/19/05 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 9, Bethel University 5 (3/19/05 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 18, Knox College 2 (3/18/05 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 3, Worcester State 2 (3/19/05 at Fort Myers, FL)
Wisconsin-Whitewater 9, #11 Macalester 4 (Mar 10, 2005 at Minneapolis, Minn.)
I can honestly say that I've only heard of one or two of the teams that they played.
Too, I don't think that they should be a "national champion" of anything in baseball unless they've played teams from Florida, Texas and California---and beaten them!
Considering the Madison doesn't have baseball, UWWhitewater looks like the Wisconsin State Champion...and that is about it.
Saw where one of the pitchers was drafted in the 6th round and another player in the hamburger rounds. So, they have some talent.
Hollow "championship" when you really don't play any of the teams in the South/Georgia and Florida; Texas teams; or, California teams...looks like they head South to play hamburger teams in the tag-along series each spring.
Looks like they should schedule John Carroll (who is he?) LaCrosse (I thought that was another sport?) and Superior (can't possibly be) more often and they would go 52-0.
Go Bears today....
Since this change has occurred to maintain a competive balance in our high schools for those who dislike it this is what you should do for other sports.
1. Call the commish of the NFL and have them repeal the salary cap. It has been a colassal failure. If some teams don't have the money or market to support a competitive team then too bad. Their pros not babies, they can handle it.
2. Let the Yankees have an 80 man roster instead of 40 as well as all of the other large market teams. Hell now they could sign however they want and just stash him away so no one else can have them.
3. How about no scholarship limits again. Notre Dame, Texas, Michigan, etc. can go back to giving over 100 FB schollys. Screw the Hawaii's and Marshalls in college football. Same for baseball scholaships and all others for that matter. Also no more of that 1A, 1AA, or naia ****. No holds barred baby.
4. I teach and coach at a K-8 with 233 students. Why do we have three classes in our junior high sports league when we can play for a state tilte against a school with 4,000. I need to set my kids up for failures at an earlier age apparently. I'll give you our presidents phone #.
Thats just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll think of more later.
1. Call the commish of the NFL and have them repeal the salary cap. It has been a colassal failure. If some teams don't have the money or market to support a competitive team then too bad. Their pros not babies, they can handle it.
2. Let the Yankees have an 80 man roster instead of 40 as well as all of the other large market teams. Hell now they could sign however they want and just stash him away so no one else can have them.
3. How about no scholarship limits again. Notre Dame, Texas, Michigan, etc. can go back to giving over 100 FB schollys. Screw the Hawaii's and Marshalls in college football. Same for baseball scholaships and all others for that matter. Also no more of that 1A, 1AA, or naia ****. No holds barred baby.
4. I teach and coach at a K-8 with 233 students. Why do we have three classes in our junior high sports league when we can play for a state tilte against a school with 4,000. I need to set my kids up for failures at an earlier age apparently. I'll give you our presidents phone #.
Thats just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll think of more later.
BeenThere - I know this isn't the point of the thread but I think Wisconsin Whitewater would play right with a lot of D1's...not the elite ones but the decent to fair ones. We play them this spring in Arizona, I'll make sure to let you know how they are.
In General... That aside, I think the point is that the system caters to both sides. The smaller schools, with smaller potential player pools to draw from and less funding for their high school programs and community programs have the opportunity to be recognized in their own "little" world. However, the championship has a connotation that comes with it. They are the "1A state champions"... or whatever class it is. The big schools are the "4A state champs" or whatever. If the big school champions really feel the need to assert their dominance over these other kids, all they have to say is they are the 4A champs, the other guys are the 1A champs. That way the big boys can feel all warm and fuzzy inside because they played the REAL competition.
The point is that the level of play is implied in the class in which you are playing. This doesn't always hold true, but as a general rule the higher class state champions are probably a better (or maybe, deeper) team than the lower class. This distinction in the class of the championship should serve as enough separation room.
I don't see the Olympic Gold metalists getting defensive in regards to the Junior Olympic gold metalists.
I went to a big high school... but that doesn't mean I can't take an objective view on the issue.
In General... That aside, I think the point is that the system caters to both sides. The smaller schools, with smaller potential player pools to draw from and less funding for their high school programs and community programs have the opportunity to be recognized in their own "little" world. However, the championship has a connotation that comes with it. They are the "1A state champions"... or whatever class it is. The big schools are the "4A state champs" or whatever. If the big school champions really feel the need to assert their dominance over these other kids, all they have to say is they are the 4A champs, the other guys are the 1A champs. That way the big boys can feel all warm and fuzzy inside because they played the REAL competition.
The point is that the level of play is implied in the class in which you are playing. This doesn't always hold true, but as a general rule the higher class state champions are probably a better (or maybe, deeper) team than the lower class. This distinction in the class of the championship should serve as enough separation room.
I don't see the Olympic Gold metalists getting defensive in regards to the Junior Olympic gold metalists.
I went to a big high school... but that doesn't mean I can't take an objective view on the issue.
Beenthere...whatever D-3 schools there are in California, Texas, Florida, etc. were all in the tourney......so even though none of them made it to play Whitewater, the teams Whitewater beat in the WS beat those teams from the warm weather states.
Yeah, Whitewater can play with some D-1 schools but the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Chicago State.
Yeah, Whitewater can play with some D-1 schools but the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Chicago State.
I'm surprised that the die-hards on this issue aren't upset that the playoffs are open to all schools, not just conference champs. After all, if you can't win your conference, what right do you have to be considered for a State Championship?
Go Bears......
Go Bears......
Beenthere...I gotta give u credit...that UW-Whitewater post was CLASSIC...even those that disagree have to admit it was creative! What exactly is a UW-Stout? ROFL!
As for UW-W playing with D1 schools...i'd have to agree...they could probably account for themselves well...IF THEY WERE PLAYING IN THE HORIZON LEAGUE...
This topic will always be 51% for and 49% against...it's the nature of the beast...and the reason it passed is because the big schools were apathetic on the issue...They already know what we are all too politically correct to say--that the truth is it doesn't matter! We will remember the 3A and 4A champs and forget the rest anyway. Just like in football where MOST people only pay attention to the 6A, 7A and 8A champs.
Let me toss out a more meaningful division. How about we crown a private school champ and a public school champ? You could even break each of those into 2 classes if you wanted. I would still object to the idea, but MUCH less strenously. At least we would be dividing the schools on a more meaningful basis--those that can recruit (and give "hardship" scholarships) and those that can't. At least the public league schools would remember their champ, and the private schools would remember theirs. But, alas, we all KNOW the IHSA doesn't have the "ba**s" for that!
As for UW-W playing with D1 schools...i'd have to agree...they could probably account for themselves well...IF THEY WERE PLAYING IN THE HORIZON LEAGUE...
This topic will always be 51% for and 49% against...it's the nature of the beast...and the reason it passed is because the big schools were apathetic on the issue...They already know what we are all too politically correct to say--that the truth is it doesn't matter! We will remember the 3A and 4A champs and forget the rest anyway. Just like in football where MOST people only pay attention to the 6A, 7A and 8A champs.
Let me toss out a more meaningful division. How about we crown a private school champ and a public school champ? You could even break each of those into 2 classes if you wanted. I would still object to the idea, but MUCH less strenously. At least we would be dividing the schools on a more meaningful basis--those that can recruit (and give "hardship" scholarships) and those that can't. At least the public league schools would remember their champ, and the private schools would remember theirs. But, alas, we all KNOW the IHSA doesn't have the "ba**s" for that!
The reason the D3 champion is almost always from the north, like UWW, is that there are no D3's in Florida, hardly any in Texas, a few in California and I also don't think there are any in Arizona or at least very few.
There were only 2 classes last year and there is some debate over who the best team was but that probably doesn't happen very often.
CoachB25,
I must be mistaken...I though the resident and athletes of he localities of Highland and Troy were friendly competitors.
I must be mistaken...I though the resident and athletes of he localities of Highland and Troy were friendly competitors.
quote:Originally posted by lsc59:
CoachB25,
I must be mistaken...I though the resident and athletes of he localities of Highland and Troy were friendly competitors.
I thought that the Collinsville/Edwardsville rivalry was intense. Many members of our community commented on my first year that all I have to do to keep my job is beat Highland.
Coach Hawkins is a good man and he and I have done our best to keep baseball and the rivalry in perspective. I admire him and the job he does. We've had some intense but well played games over the years and our kids have all played in with outstanding sportsmanship. (Of course, we have to deal with the tailgaters who get out of control each year.)
It only make sense to have different divisions of play. Here in Texas we have 5 divisions, from 1A to 5A. I don't know how a tiny school from west Texas could ever compete with a huge suburban school.
There are 200 kids trying out for Freshman baseball at some schools, while there are only 200 kids at others.
Also, here in Texas, the private schools play in thier own league (well, all but a couple) and compete for their own state championship. Watered down compeition according to Beenthere, but look at the players coming out of the system and you might think different.
There are 200 kids trying out for Freshman baseball at some schools, while there are only 200 kids at others.
Also, here in Texas, the private schools play in thier own league (well, all but a couple) and compete for their own state championship. Watered down compeition according to Beenthere, but look at the players coming out of the system and you might think different.
beenthere, Great baseball played in the state of wisconsin. The university of wisconsin oshkosh has had 30 or so players drafted in the past 20 years. In 1999, only a handful of D1 schools had more players drafted than them. The schools budjet doesn't allow for them to travel to texas, florida on a regular basis. If you think these kids can't play because they are playing d3 baseball, then you have no idea what you are talking about.
quote:If you think these kids can't play because they are playing d3 baseball, then you have no idea what you are talking about.
Kindly re-read my posting.