In need of advice

Hi and welcome to the site.
Some questions I would be asking ...

Is it still fun for him?
Does the team show any promise of improvement?
Aside from lack of competitiveness, does the coach provide an environment of positive learning of both baseball and non baseball related lessons?
Does it help keep him in shape?
What are your son's goals with baseball?
If it includes playing beyond HS, are they realistic?
If so, is he still getting decent practice, reps, game experience by continuing with the HS team?
What else does he like to do?
Is there another sport or activity he'd rather do during HS baseball season?
Does he need to keep playing during HS to stay in playing shape for his travel team? (most travel teams don't play this time of year because the vast majority of players play HS ball.)
Is baseball the only activity that he will participate in to keep busy vs. video games or other time-wasting or detrimental activities?
Is there a decent crop of players coming up in the next few years?
I will say that it can be very rewarding for a player to be part of a program turnaround.

Sorry I cannot provide a direct answer but hopefully, these questions help you and your son in the process. I am sure others will have more helpful advise.

brushout,

Cabbagedad pretty well summed it up, so I can only add some encouragement.

My son just graduated from a school with a weak baseball program, though not as bad as the situation you describe.

I'm not going to lie. It was extremely frustrating and lonely at times, especially when skilled teammates transferred to private schools. But it really did help him grow up. He became more confident about not conforming to peer norms. He developed a strong dislike for excuses and whining, and didn't permit himself to indulge in them. He learned to take responsibility for his own conditioning. He learned to maintain his focus and not let either his own or his teammates' mistakes affect his performance on the next play. It's not the preparation I would have chosen for him, but it was good for him.

Another ray of hope I can offer is that the high school season really does go by quickly. Lots of parents on this site wax nostalgic about how soon it is all over. And it is. In my case, and perhaps in yours, the brevity is a mercy. The high school games were so hard to watch. Luckily, the travel ball season will come quickly for your son, he'll be back with teammates who have similar goals and coaches who can help him reach them, and the college coaches won't even ask about what happened in the high school season.

Best wishes,

My son is also 16 and a catcher. His high school team is better than the one you described, but it is a very small school that doesn't offer much by way of exposure. However, he is getting something out of playing year after year with the same group of boys.

My son has played on some poor teams in the past. Bad teams offer a catcher some opportunities to work on skills, such as dealing with runners on base and blocking. To this day he will tell you that one of the reasons that he blocks so well is because he has caught some awful pitchers. Also helped with his stamina, as he has caught far more pitches than the opposing catcher. He learned to hang in there, and now, on good teams, coaches comment on his composure.

We also have had discussions about him not playing down to the level of his teammates, but helping pull them up by leading by example. He should also remember that at every game he is creating a reputation about himself with opposing coaches and umpires. You never know who might be helpful in the future. Everyone notices good players on bad teams. They stand out.

Of course you would never pick a bad team, but IMHO playing on a bad high school team still presents opportunities for growth, both personally and as a player.

Good luck.

brushout,

Welcome!

There are many on this site that have walked in your shoes, and son's shoes. There are some positives that can come out of a bad high school situation. Swampboy has mentioned a few as well as twotex. Some of your high school vs travel baseball thoughts have crossed the minds for many of us not blessed to be on winning high school programs. Those on winning programs just don't know how lucky they are in so many ways.

For us, my oldest son got to play more field positions (when he wasn't pitching) or DH as a result of the team lacking depth. His overall game improved as a result. He also developed mental toughness, hard work ethic, and more leadership qualities as a result. Normally, he is reserved and quiet, but I saw an "edge" to him in high school baseball that I did not see when he was playing on his national travel team. He carried that "edge" and hard work ethic into his college baseball experience. He starts official college practice in a few weeks, and he is in the best shape of his life.

My advice would be rough it out as long as it doesn't affect your son's grades. Travel season is twice as long as high school season, so just grin and bear it is the best advice I can give you. Most college coaches that recruited my son never asked about high school baseball only travel baseball. Only one college coach called his high school coach, and the high school baseball coach never returned the call. So, we know what a bad high school program looks like. His travel coach was called by all recruiting schools, and the travel coach returned all those calls.

Best of luck.

Welcome.

My son also played in a weak HS program, by the time he was a senior they went to regionals. Just to clarify, only 3 on that team went on to play college ball, it was not full of superstars but a bunch of kids that got along well and tried to make the most of the situation.

I don't get the comment about drop in grades due to extensive practice in HS. What is he going to do when he goes off to college, call you up and complain between work outs at 6am, and practice he has no time to study? Good practice for what's ahead. Sounds like the schedule son had, plus he worked and got A's. All honors classes as well. Don't make excuses.

I don't beleive in quitting, the problem with kids today is if it isn't good, they don't want to be involved. Mom and dad don't want them involved either.

Is it important to play in HS, yes it is, ask any coach who wants to know why the player doesn't want to be involved on his HS team (this case not good enough), this could be a signal to stear clear of that player come recruiting time.

JMO.

Without telling my son why I was asking, I just asked my son if he thinks he is a better player for having played on some bad teams, and he didn't hesitate a second in saying "yes". The number one benefit he listed was learning to not get upset when things go badly.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:

My son has played on some poor teams in the past. Bad teams offer a catcher some opportunities to work on skills, such as dealing with runners on base and blocking. To this day he will tell you that one of the reasons that he blocks so well is because he has caught some awful pitchers. Also helped with his stamina, as he has caught far more pitches than the opposing catcher. He learned to hang in there, and now, on good teams, coaches comment on his composure.

I'd say this is a classic example of getting lemons and making lemonade out of them!

NOT MANY HS TEAMS ARE WINNERS--IN FACT MOST Have losing seasons

quote:

It did not work and my sons grades went from straight As to As and Bs. I limited his participation in the long practices and his grades went back up to all As.

That is your son's fault. He let his grades slip. He wasn't motivated to keep them up.

quote:

My issue is the school team and the lack of coaching.

send in your resume

Keep in mind that teams can have dramatic turnarounds from one year to the next. I'm aware of a team that scored 40% more runs this past year than the preceding year, while also reducing the runs scored against them by 40%. They were much more successful in W-L record and in the post season. They did have a pretty good coach. But the point was that no one would have anticipated the improvement that they made. Some was the result of new players, some from lineup changes, and a great deal just from getting a year older.

If your boy is having a halfway decent time, and doesn't have a clearly better alternative use for his time, I'd be inclined to stick with it.

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:
Hi and welcome to the site.
Some questions I would be asking ...

Is it still fun for him?
Baseball is still extremely fun for him.

Does the team show any promise of improvement?
No.

Aside from lack of competitiveness, does the coach provide an environment of positive learning of both baseball and non baseball related lessons?
The past two, No. we should find out who the new coach is sometime in the next month.

Does it help keep him in shape?
HS, No. He practices with the travel team three times a week and plays three to four games a week with tournaments every other week end year round.

What are your son's goals with baseball?
His goals are to play collage ball.

If it includes playing beyond HS, are they realistic?
Very. He has had several coaches from our are come out to see him and many have shown interest.

If so, is he still getting decent practice, reps, game experience by continuing with the HS team?
In the past I would have to say no. I compare the HS practice with the travel team and it is night and day.

What else does he like to do?
His past time is baseball, basketball and riding his bike.

Is there another sport or activity he'd rather do during HS baseball season?
No, even during the HS season he plays ball on the travel team.

Does he need to keep playing during HS to stay in playing shape for his travel team? (most travel teams don't play this time of year because the vast majority of players play HS ball.)
No, in our area there are tournaments every other week end if not every weekend year round.

Is baseball the only activity that he will participate in to keep busy vs. video games or other time-wasting or detrimental activities?
LOL, he does not even own a video game.

Is there a decent crop of players coming up in the next few years?
Maybe, we will have to see the incoming freshman.

I will say that it can be very rewarding for a player to be part of a program turnaround.
No argument there.

Sorry I cannot provide a direct answer but hopefully, these questions help you and your son in the process. I am sure others will have more helpful advise.

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

My issue is the school team and the lack of coaching.

send in your resume

If it was only that easy I would. Unfortunately I have bills to pay and mouths to feed.. And I will need the little extra cash I make to pay for collage.

Thanks to all for the responses. I have considered pretty much everything that has been pointed out here.

The HS should get a new coach something before the HS season starts and we shall see how that goes.

I don't have an issue with him playing on the HS team no mater how good or bad they are. I am only concerned about the program is the fact that the last three coaches have been fired in two years.

I was more curious to know if anyone had any thoughts on whether HS ball was a necessity or not. Whether it was frowned upon by collage coaches if a kid does not play HS ball.

I have since done some research and found that it may not be a must. But just wanted to get some thoughts on it here.

quote:

Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
brushout,

Welcome!

There are many on this site that have walked in your shoes, and son's shoes. There are some positives that can come out of a bad high school situation. Swampboy has mentioned a few as well as twotex. Some of your high school vs travel baseball thoughts have crossed the minds for many of us not blessed to be on winning high school programs. Those on winning programs just don't know how lucky they are in so many ways.

For us, my oldest son got to play more field positions (when he wasn't pitching) or DH as a result of the team lacking depth. His overall game improved as a result. He also developed mental toughness, hard work ethic, and more leadership qualities as a result. Normally, he is reserved and quiet, but I saw an "edge" to him in high school baseball that I did not see when he was playing on his national travel team. He carried that "edge" and hard work ethic into his college baseball experience. He starts official college practice in a few weeks, and he is in the best shape of his life.

My advice would be rough it out as long as it doesn't affect your son's grades. Travel season is twice as long as high school season, so just grin and bear it is the best advice I can give you. Most college coaches that recruited my son never asked about high school baseball only travel baseball. Only one college coach called his high school coach, and the high school baseball coach never returned the call. So, we know what a bad high school program looks like. His travel coach was called by all recruiting schools, and the travel coach returned all those calls.

Best of luck.

Thank you very much for your answer.
This is the answer I was looking for.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

I don't get the comment about drop in grades due to extensive practice in HS. What is he going to do when he goes off to college, call you up and complain between work outs at 6am, and practice he has no time to study? Good practice for what's ahead. Sounds like the schedule son had, plus he worked and got A's. All honors classes as well. Don't make excuses.

I don't beleive in quitting, the problem with kids today is if it isn't good, they don't want to be involved. Mom and dad don't want them involved either.

Is it important to play in HS, yes it is, ask any coach who wants to know why the player doesn't want to be involved on his HS team (this case not good enough), this could be a signal to stear clear of that player come recruiting time.

JMO.

Ok Maybe I was not clear and did not give the entire scenario. To be clear, no one ever said any thing about quitting! He plays travel ball year round, practices with the travel team three times a week, during the HS season he practices with the HS, then later that day with the travel team. That proved to be a bit much. So, since the travel team practice is more productive than the HS, I limited his time at the HS practice, not the games.

I tried to give a little back ground as an introduction prior to asking my question. Which I now know I should have just come out and ask, my mistake. I only wanted a few thoughts on whether HS ball is as relevant as it once was. It would appear that it is not.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:

To this day he will tell you that one of the reasons that he blocks so well is because he has caught some awful pitchers. Also helped with his stamina, as he has caught far more pitches than the opposing catcher. He learned to hang in there, and now, on good teams, coaches comment on his composure.

I agree with you 100%. My kid says the same thing. One of the HS games took an hour and ten minutes to get out of the bottom of one inning.

quote:

To be clear, no one ever said any thing about quitting! He plays travel ball year round, practices with the travel team three times a week, during the HS season he practices with the HS, then later that day with the travel team. That proved to be a bit much. So, since the travel team practice is more productive than the HS, I limited his time at the HS practice, not the games.

To be clear, your son was probably playing on the high school team in violation of state rules. Most states you cannot practice with a travel team during the school season.

And you have already shown that you have no interest in supporting the high school team so he might as well quit and move on.

brushout - welcome to the site and you've asked a good question. One thing about this place is that it is loaded with all kinds of information. It's also a place with lots of people with all kinds of personalities. My advice is try to get the message and not how it's delivered.

As for your situation I'll be honest and was afraid it would turn into another bash HS baseball thread but thankfully it didn't. Cabbagedad, swampboy, twotex and fenwaysouth have given you some phenomenal advice. The rest do provide things to think about so please consider it although it might not be what you wanted to hear or how you wanted to hear it. Lot of experienced people in this thread.

As a high school coach myself I can't say anything that would add to what cabbage, swamp, twotex and fenway have already said. But Bulldog 19 does bring up a good point about you might be violating high school rules by working out with the travel team during the season. Check into that before you hurt your son's or school's eligibility.

Now to be perfectly honest with you it disappoints me to hear that you cut out high school practice to help bring up your son's grades. I understand that grades come first and they should. I also understand that you feel that the travel practice is more beneficial and probably was. I think that's wrong because you have to factor in commitment to a team. Speaking for myself only I don't believe in overlapping of teams. I'm assuming the travel team wasn't playing during the spring while high school was going on. If that's the case then your son is committed to the high school team good or bad. While it seems like a futile effort and I'm sure there are guys on the team who don't care I'm willing to bet that there are guys on the team who do care and want to win. They are relying on your son to be 100% there to help them win a game and vice versa. If he got hurt during travel practice and couldn't play in the high school games it's unfair to the high school team and his buddies there. He made a commitment and he needs to be there to fulfill it because if he doesn't then it comes across as very selfish. My belief is if you are good enough to be on my team then you are on my team and nobody's else. When we are practicing and playing you will not play for anybody else. But when the season's over you can go play with whoever you want. I strongly suggest they play for the best team they can and wish them luck.

Will your son be hurt not playing high school ball in the eyes of colleges - probably not but there will be some explaining to do. Should he play high school ball? Yes I do because while his overall game might not get better it will help become a better / stronger player by facing adversity and working through it. But if you do play high school then do it right and commit to it.

If you don't care to put on here what's going on I would like to know why this new school that's been open 2 years has already been through 3 head coaches.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:

Will your son be hurt not playing high school ball in the eyes of colleges - probably not but there will be some explaining to do. Should he play high school ball? Yes I do because while his overall game might not get better it will help become a better / stronger player by facing adversity and working through it. But if you do play high school then do it right and commit to it.

If you don't care to put on here what's going on I would like to know why this new school that's been open 2 years has already been through 3 head coaches.

Thank you for the advise it is greatly appreciated. I will looking in to the legalities of playing on two teams, no one ever brought it up.
All three coaches were fully aware of it.

As for the coaching, the first one very good coach, it was discovered that he embellished on his resume and was dismissed. The second one just got up and left two games into the season. The third wrote a "motivational letter" filled with profanity and insults directed toward the team and individual players and handed it to the kids at the last game, he was fired.

Again thanks for the response.

Coach 2709;

quote:

Will your son be hurt not playing high school ball in the eyes of colleges - probably not but there will be some explaining to do. Should he play high school ball? Yes I do because while his overall game might not get better it will help become a better / stronger player by facing adversity and working through it. But if you do play high school then do it right and commit to it.

Strongly agree with the above. The quality of the ball might not be as high, but you still face pitching. When you play travel you generally face more quality and harder pitching. A good hitter should be able to stay back on a 70 mph "fastball," but I have seen a number of hitters struggling to stay back on that stuff. This is a place to get that practice. It is also an opportunity for your son to be a team leader. Our HS team fields an average team, but our son loves it as these are his HS friends. He is a leader and a good friend and teammate. I'm not sure what you would fill out on college questionnaires as to HS information. I'm sure not all college coaches attended the best HS programs, but they probably played HS ball.

As far as the grades, if your son was not going to the travel practice after the HS practice, he would probably have the time to study and keep the A's, although A's and B's doesn't sound that bad! If he is practicing 6-7 hours on the field for 2 different teams, that almost seems counterproductive. Agree that the travel practice should carry the least, or no priority during the HS season. I didn't even know there were travel tournaments in Fl during the HS season-- certainly most HS kids (all that I know) are playing HS only. Good luck to your son. Can you possibly elaborate as to why so many HS coaches within 2 years. Have they been given a fair opportunity to succeed?

Brushout,

It seems as if I was posting at the same time you replied. Those reasons don't occur that often, so odds are the next coach will be the right match for the school. The AD will hopefully take his/her time to find the right coach for the team, especially given the previous circumstances.

He needs to play HS ball, good or bad, for all the reasons cited.

Moreover, is there even a travel ball/tournament schedule in your area during the HS Season? Not so here, travel schedule doesn't begin until May when high schools are finishing.

We sometimes shoot from the hip when when making decisions. IMHO 10 years down the road your son will regret not having enjoyed the HS baseball "experience" regardless of the coaching issues.

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:

Some questions I would be asking ...

Brushout,
Apologies for the lack of clarity in my post. I meant that these are questions you should be asking your son and your self. Sounds like you have a great kid. Best wishes and enjoy every minute with him.

Also, you made a comment about finding the answer you wanted to hear. Lots of great information here - hopefully you are open to finding some of the other information useful as well.

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:

Some questions I would be asking ...

Also, you made a comment about finding the answer you wanted to hear. Lots of great information here - hopefully you are open to finding some of the other information useful as well.

Thanks. I guess I was not clear with my question either.

I did not want a responses about how hard a kid works or not. I was only really asking if you all see HS ball as important as travel ball. I have noticed over the last few years that it seem not to be as important as it once was. When I played we only had HS and American Legion beyond little league. Now it seems to be so many other avenues to take.

I apologize for the smoke and mirrors in my opening post.

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by brushout:

I did not want a responses about how hard a kid works or not. I was only really asking if you all see HS ball as important as travel ball

Thanks

Yes it is. HS ball is a completely different element than travel ball and both have their place. Quitting the HS team more of a copout and if the parent has full influence, the kid will never figure it out for himself and not learn to deal with less than ideal situations head-on.

As for playing for a difficult HS program, if a player can block out the negatives in a HS program and stick it out, that player displays more character than one looking to quit. If anybody had a good reason to quit baseball in HS, it was my son. He was a very good ballplayer who should've been starting on varsity long before he got his shot. This was a program in need of an overhaul but he never complained or quit and always played hard. He never complained. He just did his job and played and if he didn't love the game, he would've quit. Quite a few others bailed out because they couldn't hack it so that says something for my son for hanging in there. He enjoyed his summer teams more but even as bad as the HS experience was, he still said it wasn't all that bad.

Not once throughout his four years of HS ball did my son ask or want me involved in his baseball experience other than what was needed as HS parents. Any on-field baseball stuff, he dealt with on his own.

Part of growing up and being a man is dealing with less than ideal situations. In baseball, there's always talk that it teaches life's lessons. Well, here's one. Run away from it and they'll never learn when they get on their own.

It's better to learn to deal with tough things while in HS so that when they get to college, they'll be better prepared to deal with difficult situations better.