inward move to 2nd on an early jump from first

First thought: At the small school level (ok really any level), there are two ways to control the running game, strong catcher or smart pitchers. If your catcher can't get it done, there are still numerous ways to slow them down without him ever having to touch the ball.

To your questions, in the first scenario, I believe technically the inside move would be legal IF the runner is going. The rule is written that pitcher has to be attempting to make a play or drive back the runner. If the runner isn't going it's a balk, which gives them 2b anyway, so you better guess right.

On the walking lead, you're pitcher should step off, freeze the runner at 3b, and give the ball up to the short stop. We call from the dugout ahead of time (green or red) if we want to trade the run for an out. If the run is important, the SS just walks, with the ball in his throwing hand, the R1 all the way back to the bag. When he gets back to first call time and get the ball back to the pitcher. Basically a redo letting them know you won't be giving them an error on that.

I won't go into all of the picks that a pitcher can use but the easiest way to control a running team with a weak catcher is for the pitcher to hold. hold. hold. hold and keep holding and changing timing to the plate. You have to practice this with your pitchers as it becomes more mental than anything else.(actually for the whole infield) The pitchers have to know that they are in command and nothing happens until they allow it, they are in command and these jackrabbits are just irritants that they can easily pick with some practice . I would practice a couple of pick types for each base and get some of your rabbits and also practice run downs, tags ect. The more your team is prepared for these types of scenarios the more comfortable they will be when they see it in action. Teams like these usually mentally break down a team that is not prepared but if you do this your team will handle it nicely.

Good Luck. 

There was a pretty good discussion about this subject a few years ago...

http://community.hsbaseballweb...s-to-unoccupied-base

If your small town is anything like my small town, you might also be best served to have a  pre-game chat with the umps before attempting this move.  No disrespect intended to umps here at all, but if it's something they've not seen before it could get a little crazy.

Decent link GHHS, but there is a lot of talk about the fake to 3rd, throw to 1st move in there, which i know has changed and is now illegal in NFHS play. 

Good points all around BOF and Ironhorse. 

So it sounds like these plays are clean, but in scenario 1 I better be 100% sure the kid is going 1st pitch or it could be a balk. 

Iron horse- I do like your idea for the defense of scenario 2. but that puts you right back into 1st and 3rd... does the team usually lay off in this situation? or do they just go for a straight steal of 2nd next time around? It sounds like your play is a safe bet, but unless you trade the run for the out, your right back where you started. I'd really like to try and get an out on this...much easier said than done I know. I would love to hear some more ideas about this one. 

-CoachZ 

An umpire's perspective: if the pitcher throws to an unoccupied base from the set position, it needs to be a bona fide attempt to get a runner out. 

Think about the timing of this play. 

If the runner starts as soon as the pitcher picks up his non-pivot foot and the pitcher throws to second as described in the OP, how far will the runner have advanced?  If the runner sees the throw go into second before he has taken more than a few steps and safely retreats to first base, many umpires will be disinclined to call the throw to second an attempt to get the runner out. 

If there's not a play at second, it's going to look more like an attempt to force the runner to retreat than to get him out, and there's a good chance it will be ruled a balk.

I always bring it up in a casual conversation between innings with something along the lines of "my pitcher might try this. I understand that if the runner isn't moving, it's a balk. Just wanted to give you a heads up." This is usually responded to one of two ways. Either the ump says, "No. That is a balk, you can't throw to an unoccupied base," at which point I bring up the "exception" clause or I get a clear idication that the ump understands the rule and sometimes their even appaled that I would bring up something so obvious. What I've ran into a lot thought is an ump who calls it a balk and then, after a short discussion realizes that he was wrong, but now the damage has been done. For some umps, it's just an immediate reaction to call balk even though they do understand the rule. That's where a light discussion is helpful.

Swampboy:  In the old link I cited above, 3FingeredGlove referenced 6.2.4b and the attempt to put our or drive back a runner....couldn't a coach argue that was the intent?

Again, this is where I would make sure I had a little pre-game chat with the crew and go over this specific situation.

Sorry roothog66, I was typing as you were replying...

Under OBR rules, the concept of "to make a paly" is now covered under the comments on the rule which clearly define any move that the pitcher could reasonably consider an intent to advance. As someone who has used it a lot, though, here is my experience. Usually the runner doesn't catch on (assuming you don't use it so much that it's a known quantity), puts his head down and takes off. Also, you have to consider the use of this move. It's especially helpful at the younger ages where this move can stop the whole track meet concept dead in its tracks. At upper levels, I'm only using it in two specific situations. 1) I've stolen the steal sign and 2) I know R1 is almost a lock to steal and I would be willing to bet he's going to do it and my battery has virtually no chance of stopping him (say an extremely fast and talented baserunner). In those situations, the risk of a balk isn't that big a deal since I've already determined that if he wants the base, he's probably going to take it easily anyway. In situations where a catcher is so weak as to give most runners free reign on the bases regardless of how well the pitcher holds him, even a failed attempt that leads to a balk puts a team on notice that this move is now a threat to that free reign. Now they may start playing the game of trying to trap the pitcher into a balk, which means they now have to stop the whole track meet thing. 

I will say that, in my experiences, under high school rules, that few umpires were wiling to go with the "drive back" reasoning. Regardless of the NFHS rule difference, they seem more comfortable with something closer to OBR's language.

Quick question from a post above: Did NFHS rules change to for 2015 to prohibit a feint to 3b from the rubber?

Shouldn't have relied on my memory.  "drive back" is included in the rule.  I withdraw my comment. 

We do something similar to Ironhorse but we don't give up on getting the out.  P steps off, freezes R3, throws to whichever MIF is covering 2b.  This MIF now has the ball, facing both runners and can work R1 back while keeping R3 in check.  We can often get the out at first and keep R3 in place.

That's always been called a  balk when I've seen it.

Do you have a LHP you can use against that team?  Just a thought...

Nope root, they didn't get rid of it.  I think this year's focus was on the batter's backswing and "shiney helmets".  In fact, the last time they even mentioned it was to emphasize the "31" move is legal in HS baseball (July 2014).

Swampboy, no worries.  That's why I say you've got to have the chat before the game or before you plan to attempt that move.  It's one of "those" rules.  Like root and others have said, it's usually too late to argue after the balk has been called and you're not going to change what's already happened.

That's why we call it from the dugout ahead of time. Green is like a green light saying we're ok with the run scoring but we HAVE to get an out. Red means red light at 3rd and that run can't score, hence the walk back. 

You have to go back to the intent of the 1st/3rd plays on offense. I'm not running one with a good hitter at the plate, so the other coach is telling what he thinks of his hitter's chances most times. So if that run matters, we'll put them right back in the 1st/3rd and make their hitter beat us. They make try another version of the 1st/3rd hi-jinks, but most are easily defended by walking them back or simply communicating with the kids ahead of time. If they go straight steal we have other plays for that, as well. All comes down to preparation ahead of time obviously, and how much the run at 3b matters. Feel free to shoot me a message and I'll be more than happy to break down our 3 plays on this if you're interested or it might help at all.

The only way to feel better about getting an out is to rep the hell out of rundowns, which we do, and coach kids up to the point that you have faith in their decision making when the ball is in play.If they can handle the pressure and play catch you'll be amazed at how good they get at it. And if the other teams fails at this the first couple of times they'll likely be done running these on you all year. Coach will start worrying about looking dumb.

Good points and I'll take you up on your 3 play breakdown if you don't mind.

my apologies. I was mistaken on the fake to 3rd throw to 1st thing... it is legal. the double fake is illegal. If you fake to 3rd, you HAVE to throw to 1st or it is a balk. had one called on my team last year...not very fun. 

as far as "will he really be far enough of first to make a play on him" I think so. The particular team im thinking of really takes for granted the low IQ and skill level of a lot of teams around here. I dont think they will be expecting anything fancy. Kid turn and runn full tilt on first move. This is the same team that i had started a thread on last year...standing close to the plate to draw walks. They are just that kind of team...big on exploiting weaknesses and all that stuff. 

I agree very much that its a good idea to hip the umpire to this idea before running the play and gauge whether or not he is going to call the balk. be proactive about it, not reactive. 

and ditto on the 3 plays. lets hear it!

Thanks for all the great discussion folks. 

On a STEAL ATTEMPT, we have 3 "plays" we call from the dugout. The calls are based on our personnel most often, although the situation or runners can dictate as well. 

Throw to 2nd: Catcher throws to second (must quickly check runner at 3b in the process). SS covers bag. The second baseman is the athlete here. He crashes in, taking care to not cross the imaginary line from home to 2b which would hinder the SS view. 2b reads R3. If he gets past a magic distance the 2b cuts it and makes a play. 

Coaching points here: 2b can't block SS view. SS must anticipate every throw coming through to the bag. C has to quickly check the R3 to keep him honest. We have the 3b break to the bag and throw up his hands if the runner is breaking for home, just to make it easier on the catcher. You have to rep it a ton in practice so the 2b gets good at reads.

We've been blessed to have a very good C and 2b for the last 2 years, so we run this 90% of the time. We can adjust the call to ensure the 2b lets the ball go through if I'm very confident in throwing R1 out or that R3 isn't going to be moving.

Pitcher cuts:  Catcher throws directly to P. P throws directly to 3b. That's it. Good for weak armed catchers, lazy runners at 3b or verrrrry fast runners at 1b. Also good when you don't have a very athletic 2b in the game.

Coaching points here: P has to see the call or he will get hurt. C cannot check the R3 to keep him close.

Throw down to 3b: Catcher comes up and fires a missile to 3b. Again, good for lazy runners at 3b or a very fast kid running at 1b that we're not going to throw out. Our catcher has gotten very good at stepping towards SS and throwing across his body to 3b. Even more deceptive.

Coaching points here: Obviously don't check R3. LF has to see the call and be moving as well in case of overthrow. 

Anytime a team tries to leave early, we have the P step off, stare at the runner at 3b for a 1 second count (it has to be over emphasized, because at game speed the look will become much quicker). and spin and give up the ball to the SS. Then we play it out based on the situation.

When we're in  a 1st/3rd, I'll give a sign from the dugout, indicating which of the 3 plays we're running, and I'll yell out Red or Green. Red is a stop light for the R3, meaning the run is important. Green is a go light meaning we're happy to let that run score and take an out for it. 

The teams that don't seem to do well with 1st/3rd defensively seem to not be able to play catch in pressure rundowns, or the kids can't make decisions at game speed. We try and take the decision making piece away as much as possible with the red/green system, and we have a good rundown drill we rep consistently throughout the year.

That's all we do, nothing fancy, but we've had good success with 1st/3rd both defensively and offensively. It's one of the fun pieces of HS baseball to me.

Ironhorse, thanks, a lot of good info there.

Regarding "Throw down to third base":  You don't have your catcher pump fake?  I might consider eliminating the pump fake, if our catchers are comfortable and capable of doing it that way.

Regarding "Pitcher cuts":  The past couple of years we've eliminated the pitcher cut from our options.  We don't like the R/R. We weigh the reward that it very rarely results in a out when we're playing good teams against the risk that once the sign is given, it occupies a corner of our pitcher's mind while he's delivering pitches.

We run the Pitcher Cut one in lieu of a pump fake. A lot of teams coach that runner to go once they see the ball leave the catcher's hand, so a pump basically just gives them a free base. I find a lot of times when it leaves the catcher's hand the R3 will just drop his head and run. If that happens we obviously cut and throw home.

The throw down to 3b  is really targeting a lazy/dumb/overly aggressive secondary kind of runner so the pump fake doesn't help a lot there.