During my son's Jr. year his H.S. team was poorly coached, but extremely talented.
Although they under-performed, in an anti-baseball country club h.s. culture, 9 play/played collegiately and 8 played all 4 years. (Two of the best players, didn't play in college, but certainly could have.)
Point is, now as the last of them enter their last college year, they stay in touch, follow one another on the web, and maintain those relationships--regardless of the quality of their on-the-feild H.S. experiences. They continue to share a natural common bond, based on where the lived and what they shared.
Do I wish the school hired a better coach and that the team met with more success? Of course.
Would I trade those spring afternoons, with our neighborhood kids battling (familiar)kids from nearby schools? Never.
The big payoff came at season's end baseball banquet, to see my son's face when the Coach announced he was named all-state, all-county, all-Metro etc....he clearly made the mental connection between hard work and results. And although he'd never admit it, I've never seen him more proud.
Scant few of us ever play MLB. All of us waste our time, especially when young. Compared to many(most?) other discretionary teenage activities, the time between the lines has exceptional value.
I believe it really depends on what area of the country you are from. Where I am at travel, select and showcase teams do not take place during the HS season. As far as the quality of play of the HS where my son graduated from here are some tidbits:
AAA School with about 1500 students
Head Coach Record 898 Wins 246 Losses
8 State Titles
21 Sectional Titles
19 Regional Titles
My son was in the program from 1998 through 2001; in that time:
10 played in college (3 DI, 5 DII, 2 Juco)
3 Drafted - 1st round, 39th round, 9th round.
HS is very competitive in this area.
O42
AAA School with about 1500 students
Head Coach Record 898 Wins 246 Losses
8 State Titles
21 Sectional Titles
19 Regional Titles
My son was in the program from 1998 through 2001; in that time:
10 played in college (3 DI, 5 DII, 2 Juco)
3 Drafted - 1st round, 39th round, 9th round.
HS is very competitive in this area.
O42
But very competitive compared to what? Other HS's?
I have seen the 16U Kyle Chapman (Houston) team play. They could probably win the state HS championship in any state. I have seen more than a few 17U select teams that I am absolutely certain would handily beat the Texas 5A HS champs. And that is not saying anything negative about the 5A HS champs.
Unless one has seen the really good select clubs from California, Texas, Florida, East Cobb, etc. play, it is difficult to imagine how good these "elite" teams really are.
This is simple logic. A big HS has 3000 students to recruit from. An elite select team will recruit from a population of millions.
I have seen the 16U Kyle Chapman (Houston) team play. They could probably win the state HS championship in any state. I have seen more than a few 17U select teams that I am absolutely certain would handily beat the Texas 5A HS champs. And that is not saying anything negative about the 5A HS champs.
Unless one has seen the really good select clubs from California, Texas, Florida, East Cobb, etc. play, it is difficult to imagine how good these "elite" teams really are.
This is simple logic. A big HS has 3000 students to recruit from. An elite select team will recruit from a population of millions.
Texan,
The HS team has played other baseball teams from the following states, not all of which were HS teams:
Connecticut, Florida, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee and West Virginia), and the District of Columbia.
They play between 40 and 45 games a year during the season. Which is changing for the 2006 season.
I understand what you are saying, however it is highly likely that those kids that are recruited for the select, travel, elite teams, are recruited from High Schools. At least around my neck of the woods.
O42
The HS team has played other baseball teams from the following states, not all of which were HS teams:
Connecticut, Florida, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee and West Virginia), and the District of Columbia.
They play between 40 and 45 games a year during the season. Which is changing for the 2006 season.
I understand what you are saying, however it is highly likely that those kids that are recruited for the select, travel, elite teams, are recruited from High Schools. At least around my neck of the woods.
O42
As far as what coaching is better, high school or select summer ball. For the most part, the players get more coaching in High School. The summer select teams are hand picked and the coaches just write out the lineup cards. When you play 5-6 times a week, practice is just BP and infield before the games.
In the last 20 years in my area, I can't think of a player who has been drafted as a 17-18 year old that did not play high school ball.
In the last 20 years in my area, I can't think of a player who has been drafted as a 17-18 year old that did not play high school ball.
Select teams are about playing games, period. High School serves its purpose also. In good programs, players have the chance to practice and improve in high school settings. These kids must practice to get better, especially younger kids
Here in Arizona we have some excellent HS coaches who do a great job of teaching fundamentals and preparing young men for the next level and for adulthood. We also have some guys who roll out the balls in the spring and call it practice. I'm quite sure it's no different in your area, wherever it is.
I deal with HS coaches frequently, and many are heavy handed, egotistical jerks. At least as many are some of the most gracious people I've ever met and clearly out for the best interest of their kids. Again, I don't think you'll find things any different in your area.
The original question was:
I counsel dozens of families every year. My response to this question would first be, Why aren't you playing HS baseball? Is it because of a difficult coach? What makes you think that college coaches aren't just as difficult as HS coaches?
I communicate with college coaches frequently. If I recommended a non-HS playing player to a college coach, I would expect him to seriously question why he didn't play in HS. Regardless of the quality of coaching or the cuddlyness of the coach, not having the HS experience on your resume leaves a gaping chasm and waves a huge red flag. It clearly makes a difference.
I agree with Coach May. There is a place and a need for both HS baseball and summer/travel teams.
As far as the experience of young Charles Benoit, please keep this in mind: the recruiting/scouting process becomes markedly easier when you are 6-2+, lefthanded and throwing in the 90s...........
I deal with HS coaches frequently, and many are heavy handed, egotistical jerks. At least as many are some of the most gracious people I've ever met and clearly out for the best interest of their kids. Again, I don't think you'll find things any different in your area.
The original question was:
quote:Is hs baseball becoming unnecessary for kids to go to college and play? Between showcases and all of the select summer and fall teams.
I counsel dozens of families every year. My response to this question would first be, Why aren't you playing HS baseball? Is it because of a difficult coach? What makes you think that college coaches aren't just as difficult as HS coaches?
I communicate with college coaches frequently. If I recommended a non-HS playing player to a college coach, I would expect him to seriously question why he didn't play in HS. Regardless of the quality of coaching or the cuddlyness of the coach, not having the HS experience on your resume leaves a gaping chasm and waves a huge red flag. It clearly makes a difference.
I agree with Coach May. There is a place and a need for both HS baseball and summer/travel teams.
As far as the experience of young Charles Benoit, please keep this in mind: the recruiting/scouting process becomes markedly easier when you are 6-2+, lefthanded and throwing in the 90s...........
Keep in mind there is much more to learn than what can be taught on a high caliber team.
After all, any shortstop can make a play when the 1st baseman is all-everything and can stretch further than gumby.
Try throwing to a kid who couldn't stretch off the plate is his life depended on it.
Try pitching, to a freshman, who is playing his first ever varsity game behind the plate.
You not only learn a lot about humility and team work. You also learn another invaluable skill - how to compensate.
There is a lot to learn - some can be learned best in one environment, some in another.
After all, any shortstop can make a play when the 1st baseman is all-everything and can stretch further than gumby.
Try throwing to a kid who couldn't stretch off the plate is his life depended on it.
Try pitching, to a freshman, who is playing his first ever varsity game behind the plate.
You not only learn a lot about humility and team work. You also learn another invaluable skill - how to compensate.
There is a lot to learn - some can be learned best in one environment, some in another.
To All
It would seem that some here think I'm to severe in my language about HS BB.
Let me clarify...reading many post for years here on the HSBBWEB if one can think back about how many parents have posted about their experiences with HS BB, has offered a window into conditions across this country about the levels of effective programs.
If you read in-between-the-lines you get a sense of "frustration" from many parents. Some of it has to do with their concern for the own son's chances to get enough playing time, but a lot of it has to do with what they see as improper conduct on the part of HM coaches. And a lot of questions have to deal with the intricacies of the recruiting process.
The point I was trying to make, has nothing to do with the quality of human being, but the quality of the level of teaching at the HS level.
In example, the quality of human being of my son's high school coach could not have been more exempliary. He was, and still is, a peach of a man and one fine human being. But as a BB coach he needed training and help which he will never get because the HS BB support system in the State Of California is lacking any cohesiveness for HS BB coaches. Most of the entire sports budgets are being redirected to girls sports and boys football.
Well, as a parent where do you go to find a program that will challenge your son and provide a level of coaching that is more in line with that which will prepare your son for the next level of BB?
That is the question that most parents are looking for the answer to here on the HSBBWEB.
Please spare me the condemnation about being omnipresent. We are all able to read for ourselves the threads of the forum boards that are excrucitatingly clear what is driving why most parents fine this website so helpful.
It is to find out how to supplement the HS BB experience for their son's to give them the best chance to play varsity HS BB with an eye to help their son's achieve his maximum potential with a thought that maybe their son might be good enough to get a college scholarship.
That's what I have been reading, here for years. My point is that relying strickly on the HS experience to achieve that level of anticipated achievement requires that these parents deal with the stark reality that most HS BB programs are inadequate to help their son's achieve "stardom" status. Usually a player comes to the HS level already groomed as an All-Star based upon the dedicated training and BB education that his Dad or some other coach has provided to him.
This website provides the information about that supplemental info. The showcase forums can be the vehicle that can give those parents the answers they need to enhance their son's chances for a successful HS BB experience and possible recruitment for a college scholarship, and that's a fact.
At least, that has been my experience.
JMO
It would seem that some here think I'm to severe in my language about HS BB.
Let me clarify...reading many post for years here on the HSBBWEB if one can think back about how many parents have posted about their experiences with HS BB, has offered a window into conditions across this country about the levels of effective programs.
If you read in-between-the-lines you get a sense of "frustration" from many parents. Some of it has to do with their concern for the own son's chances to get enough playing time, but a lot of it has to do with what they see as improper conduct on the part of HM coaches. And a lot of questions have to deal with the intricacies of the recruiting process.
The point I was trying to make, has nothing to do with the quality of human being, but the quality of the level of teaching at the HS level.
In example, the quality of human being of my son's high school coach could not have been more exempliary. He was, and still is, a peach of a man and one fine human being. But as a BB coach he needed training and help which he will never get because the HS BB support system in the State Of California is lacking any cohesiveness for HS BB coaches. Most of the entire sports budgets are being redirected to girls sports and boys football.
Well, as a parent where do you go to find a program that will challenge your son and provide a level of coaching that is more in line with that which will prepare your son for the next level of BB?
That is the question that most parents are looking for the answer to here on the HSBBWEB.
Please spare me the condemnation about being omnipresent. We are all able to read for ourselves the threads of the forum boards that are excrucitatingly clear what is driving why most parents fine this website so helpful.
It is to find out how to supplement the HS BB experience for their son's to give them the best chance to play varsity HS BB with an eye to help their son's achieve his maximum potential with a thought that maybe their son might be good enough to get a college scholarship.
That's what I have been reading, here for years. My point is that relying strickly on the HS experience to achieve that level of anticipated achievement requires that these parents deal with the stark reality that most HS BB programs are inadequate to help their son's achieve "stardom" status. Usually a player comes to the HS level already groomed as an All-Star based upon the dedicated training and BB education that his Dad or some other coach has provided to him.
This website provides the information about that supplemental info. The showcase forums can be the vehicle that can give those parents the answers they need to enhance their son's chances for a successful HS BB experience and possible recruitment for a college scholarship, and that's a fact.
At least, that has been my experience.
JMO
The reaction of our state high school athletic association to travel teams has been to propose a rule that no high school athlete can practice or play for any other team during his high school season. Obviously, this wouldn't apply to those not playing high school, but what it would hurt is our very strong local Babe Ruth league, where 15 year olds often play at the same time they are playing high school ball. That league has spawned one present major leaguer another player that just got drafted in the first round, and numerous college players. The high school coaches often tell their younger players to play in their Babe Ruth game rather than sit on the bench at the high school level. This will now be taken away from these players, at least through April and May. It's quite unfortunate.
JohnLex,
It's obvious that Chaz Roe must be the draft pick you speak of. Who is the Major League player from that league?
Do you think things would have turned out differently for those players without the Babe Ruth league? I'm just curious regarding your opinion. I know there isn't anyway to really know for sure.
It's obvious that Chaz Roe must be the draft pick you speak of. Who is the Major League player from that league?
Do you think things would have turned out differently for those players without the Babe Ruth league? I'm just curious regarding your opinion. I know there isn't anyway to really know for sure.
The major league player is Austin Kearns. Same 10-12 league, same Babe Ruth league, same high school. (the same ones my son played in and same high school 
)
It's hard to say if it would have been different had they not had that league. It's such a different baseball world these days.
)It's hard to say if it would have been different had they not had that league. It's such a different baseball world these days.
John - Lafayette has had a lot of kids drafted. I'm not sure of who all made it to the big show - think Eddie Brooks and Jeff Parrett are a couple. I know Jeff played for several clubs. They both do some instruction in this area.
Kind of incredible that that many have come out of one high school in such a small area, don't you think?
I just think that that proposal, if it passes, is going to hurt the younger players who could use another year of Babe Ruth before playing high school. If it passes, they will lose valuable playing experience, which is really too bad.
I just think that that proposal, if it passes, is going to hurt the younger players who could use another year of Babe Ruth before playing high school. If it passes, they will lose valuable playing experience, which is really too bad.
It's not just babe ruth that would be affected. All of the other leagues, along with travel teams. Some of the travel teams start before HS is out, or at least Michael's always did. This will affect many sports - Kelsey is planning on playing club volleyball this winter/spring - that would be out under the changes. Tasmit put the proposals in our forum - I'm sure he'll keep us updated. I keep thinking because of basketball (AAU) that there's no way it can fly?
I'm going to chime in on the side of not only defending HS BB but encouraging it. We live in a decidedly rural community in a predominantly rural state (Iowa). And I gather Iowa is one of the few states with HS BB in the summer. So, the conflict with Select/Travel/Whatever teams could be acute here, if club BB were to gain the stature that club s****r has. In any event, summer HS baseball is truly a part of the fabric of community life here in Iowa, and something worth preserving. I have spent some of the most enjoyable evenings of my life at ballfields in small towns watching what would probably qualify as "low quality" H.S. baseball games, but mean the world to the old gaffers up in the bleachers, etc. So, in my small part of the world, H.S. BB is indeed necessary.
lol.....How can you get on here and say that the level of coaching that my hs players get is not as good as some summer league coach.
That is great. Keep the laughs coming.
That is great. Keep the laughs coming.
Pretty easy to do, as it is true in many cases.
I would guess college coaches look down on those who chose not to participate on their high school teams. In recruiting you want to always have the edge over the next guy, and in my mind a prospect who played high school ball has the edge over one who opted out; regardless of the reason.