Is it getting to be too much?

.
'06CD...

Like so many things IMO it is so dependent upon the particular player. Some breeze right through others need significant down time. I've got one of both.

The problem as I see it is twofold. The pressure at younger and younger ages to excel year round.

And the danger/pressure during that last ever-so-important year.

The solution I believe lies in real, large picture perspective and in communication.
Players have to feel free to speak up and parents have to be very observant, looking out for the best interests of the players not just their short term baseball careers.

Good post,
After a grueling senior summer, mine took off for the fall after committing. He worked and earned as much as he could for the spring.
In the spring,he gave up a lot of showcases (pro), allstar game and workouts for high school events (trip, prom, graduation), and concentrated on his HS team, trying to get to regionals. Summer before college, he played for his summer team, but pitched only once a week. His role was more of the cheerleader than the pitcher that year.

My son loves baseball, lives for it. But he cut back and was able to find a balance in his life towards the end of HS that brought him rest and a peace of mind that every other teen headed for college should experience.

140-150 innings is way out of control. Your pitcher's arm needs a good rest, I'd move him to first. JMO.

Too much? I tend to agree with O44....Depends on the player and what his goals are. BESIDES...we have to remember we’re talking FUN and GAMES here, not manual labor or torture. To me a teenager that gets a job and works 40 hours a week during the summer is pushing himself/herself much more than the teenager playing baseball. My son came to me when he was 15 or so and said he’d like to get a job at Kroger so he could buy some things he wanted. I gave him a choice....I said he could work at Kroger and buy them himself.....or he could WORK at baseball and I would buy them for him. He smiled and said “That’s a no brainer”....
Fungo

Most of today’s teenagers have so many options available to them that we parents feel as if we’re slighting them if they can’t attend every social function, play every game of every sport and have every toy. Hey, I'm guilty too but not near as gulity as some.

TPM,

Great post!!

I don't believe that the answer is to play everywhere in order to be "seen". Play more selectively.

We played summer/fall select, including trips to Jupiter/Fort Myers juniors last few years before college. For the pitching staff, during the 5 month interval of June thru October, they would average about 6 innings a week on the mound and a tourney about 12 times in the 5 months. That's about 70 innings of work for the summer/fall combined.

They would work out 6 days a week, but had an entire month in August when they were instructed to shutdown. During August, they ran and lifted.

14 members of the 2004 class that he played with signed. 15 members of the 2005 class that he played with signed. They all didn't go D1, but they got a chance to play after HS.

You don't have to "do everything", just do the right things. Playing HS summer ball plus showcase ball may be too much. For position players, it may be fine, but for pitchers, you don't want them having TJ surgery the spring they arrive in college.

I'm in the camp of you play if it brings you enjoyment. My son has played baseball year round since he was 8 years. He never did this because of any plans for exposure or desire to be seen. I was really ignorant of recruitment/exposure until the very end. Playing ball was never forced by me. He played because it's what he did. It's what he loved to do with his time. Some kids like to play videos all day, some like to read, some like to play a guitar, and some like do not so healthy things. I've always felt blessed that mine just wanted to play baseball? With the exception of allowing a kid to pitch until his arm falls off - if they want to play, let them!

Every case is different - but here is my view:

Eldest - played approx. 125 games in his last two high school years - which was alot for a Northeast player. Plus showcases. Position player (SS/2B). His body was a wreck by the time he started his freshman year at college. Took him a full year to get his body back to 100%. I should have limited his playing time - over his objections.

Youngest - plays year round - P/OF - but spends more time on development and training - and less game time. Plays very hard - just like the older guy - and isnt nearly as strong at the similar age - but his body has not been hammered.

I think I made a mistake with the older guy - and I wont make that mistake again.

We are going through the same problem of how much is too much. My son played hs, summer and fall ball. He has 177 innings pitched between all of them, and about 2700 pitches. His fall team wants to go to Florida over Christmas for a tournament. Our High School coach does not think he should pitch. He has been shut down for about 3 weeks now, but still goes out and throws a football around with his brother a couple days a week. He has made a verbal commitment to a DI school for next year as a pitcher. Does anyone have an opinion on if he should start back up in December to get ready for Florida?

It is too much, and it is that way because people have turned it into a business. There apparently was a demand and someone was smart enough to add the supply.

Unfortunately, it has escalated to the point that players/parents feel "obligated" to get into the "churn" as i'll call it or they are made to feel they can't compete for "visibility."

Still no one forces you to play and showcase year around and truth be told it really isn't necessary to the extreme degree that some folks take it. If it were scaled down tomorrow there would still be just as many college teams and just as many players drafted. All that would be lost is the revenue that this extra "stuff" brings to those that run it. All that would be gained is alot of work for scouts and recruiters. Now it's easier for them as it's all laid out for them.

You know what surprises me. Football has no where near the commercial nature or extra out of season play that baseball and basketball have and it does just fine.

Interesting topic. There are 1 million correct answers to the problem. Some kids need the rest and some don't need quite as much. We were completely unaware of showcasing so that never enterered the equation for us.

My take is very similar to lafmom. My son is a baseball player and that is what he does - plays baseball because he loves it. His body has never broken down too much other than the usual stuff like strawberries, scabs, bruises, broken toes, pinched nerves etc. He has usually recuperated during November and December.

His schedule was basically about 35 games of high school ball, about 60 games of summer ball, and about 20-25 games of fall ball. Next spring/summer, I see him playing about 65 games of college ball and about 45 games of summer collegiate league. That is of course followed up next fall with intra-squad practice and scrimmages.

bags

3 or 4 weeks of getting his arm ready in the cold to pitch one tournament, probably just one game if starts? That's a personal decision but I wonder how sharp anyone, not just your guy can be after a few cold weather bullpens and no live hitters for the past two or three months. I probably would not push my kid to do it and he wouldn't probably get that excited about it anyway. Thats just us though. Just sounds like alot of rigamarole for 4 or 5 innings.

Fungo:

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
My son came to me when he was 15 or so and said he’d like to get a job at Kroger so he could buy some things he wanted. I gave him a choice....I said he could work at Kroger and buy them himself.....or he could WORK at baseball and I would buy them for him. He smiled and said “That’s a no brainer”....

So...did he take the 'bagger' job or the one chasing the carts around the lot?

Just kidding of course!

Nice post as usual.

Back in the day kids used to play more than 1 sport. It was football season or basketball season or baseball season etc etc . Now coaches want their kids to work out all year. then people talk about burn out.

.
Lots of good agruments to play another sports and to cross train.
.

bags

only your son knows how he will feel

This same topic has been kicked around for several years. I watched a program on TV last year where they interviewed one of the SEC coaches and it was interesting as to what they had to say abot playing baseball year around.

Pitchers: They need a break!!!! The coach stated that often the pitchers they sign are damaged goods before they show up on campus. They pitch in the Fall, High School season, & for their Summer league teams. These kids never give their arm a rest. The coach felt that the pitchers should take a rest from baseball and play another sport.

Position Players: Again the coach felt that while their arms were probably ok they too needed a break from baseball 365 days per year. His suggestion was for position player to play another sport just to take their mind off baseball. Continue to workout in the weight room and maybe hit one day each week but only if the players wanted to. The coach felt like the good athletes could get back into baseball condition in 4 to 6 weeks and would be fine.

When ask about the risk of injury in another sport he reminded everyone that these are high school athletes and they could fall walking down the hallway at school.

When summer ended, our son (pitcher) declared a resting period of 6 weeks away from baseball. Guess how long it lasted? A little under 2 weeks!
Some kids just love the game and you can't keep them away from a baseball! He's not doing organized baseball, but he throws and fields at an indoor facility 4 days a week (it gets cold in Kansas). By the way, all he wanted for his 17th birthday was a membership to the indoor facility. He's one of those kids who loves the game. We as parents limit his activity by not paying for all the travel exposure. He's forced to rustle up some buddies and become self-disciplined if he wants to get better.
Of course, he's playing baseball on a video game on his off days and his team is leading their division!

FLADAD:

"I scream the same whether its a Great White or a piece of seaweed"

That's very good! <img src="http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::laughA:-->

Your tagline struck me as hilarious!

It brought back some fond, yet terrifying, memories to me.

I grew up on the coast of Oregon and can relate well to stuff in and out of the water.

For instance...going 'crabbing' and pulling up the crab rings and dumping 10 or 15 very large and very angry Dungeness crabs in the bottom of our boat. Let me tell you ... Edward Scissorhands had nothing on these agitated crustaceans!

They were out to do maximum damage while we had to pick them up ...carefully...check their gender (males only as keepers) and then measure them to see if they were big enough to keep...all the while the rest of them on the bottom of the boat are doing that crazy side-ways scamper trying to find and latch onto any human flesh! Is that reaction merely a 'survival' instinct or do you suppose those bad boys really do know what revenge is all about?

All I know is that their next stop would be a kettle of boiling water on the beach...and they would still be trying to snatch the Band-Aids off your fingers as you were pitching them into the roiling, steaming,cauldron! I'm thinking its revenge instead of survival! <img src="http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" width="15" height="15"><!--graemlin::laughA:-->


If these things in the water really bother you that much you might try taking showers instead of bathes...I'm not certain but they may prove less truamatic! It worked for me!



RE: The topic at hand about too much baseball... I also agree with Tiger Paw Mom and the others, especially ClevelandDad and observer44.

My wife and I have understood for years that our primary responsibility and task, when it comes to all of the ballplayers in our family, is to monitor all of them for signs of 'burn-out'. We know that 'burn-out' is one of the leading causes of players turning away from the game that, at one point, they dearly loved.

We cherish the game and understand very well what the game has positively contributed to our children and family and 'burn-out' threatens these contributions.

It takes, at times, a great deal of effort on our part to keep a constant vigil and formulate a strategy to counter 'burn-out' when it starts to creep into the picture. No two situations are alike and it really keeps us on our toes!

We know that if we were to ignore 'burn-out' that it would ultimately win. We've seen it win too many times in other families and we've used those experiences of others to our advantage ...by constantly keeping the 'burn-out' radar on.

Knock on wood (your choice...ash, maple, or even bamboo!)...we've been successful so far!

BTW...surf's up!

Enjoyed the discourse... kelp in touch!

Bagsbaseball,

Our sons average in HS was about 70 innings per year, with another 20-25 max totally no more than 100 per year. His college pitching coach told us once that was the ideal count per year for a HS player. We didn't pay much attention to pitch count totals, his innings were ususally pretty low.

Actually, if he has committed he doesn't have to do a thing but play for enjoyment, help his HS team, and stay healthy. When next fall comes and he cannot participate in fall practice and instruction due to a tired or sore arm, you will wish that you had paid more attention to his innings and pitch counts.

This is the age old question, when does it get to be too much.

JMO

bags......if your son has pitched 177 innings this year, then I don't think he should play in a tournament in Florida, no matter how his arm feels at this point. I personally would keep him shut down until at or after the holidays to give him a good couple months of no throwing.....Dr. Andrews and that gang would most likely recommend 3 months off, and would probably tell him not even to throw a football around.

This topic will always bring up many views. I must admit I’ve often wondered the same thing regarding what is too little and what is too much. Obviously there are different concerns regarding pitchers and position players. I would like to claim more is better because of the business we are in, but I’m not sure that is true. We sure have no problem with young people playing other sports.

Luckily, people searching for answers can do some research to find out how the most successful players and pitchers handled this (too much-too little) situation. That is the best way to make a decision not based on someone’s opinion of which way is best. Those that played year round with little time off vs those who did not… Of those groups which has become the most successful?

We have seen both ways work out just fine. We don’t know for sure how many who took time off have been passed up by those who continued to play. We do know the results of many, many players who played pretty much year round and many who did not. Of course,that is because we are involved in several of the biggest off season events in amateur baseball.

The tournament in Jupiter has seen a very large number of highest draft picks and DI players. The World Showcase in Ft Myers in January has had these players attend and many others. Here’s more than 20 who in recent years who went the off season route in high school. Note: 15 of these guys have already played in the Major Leagues.

Zach Greinke RHP – Royals
David Wright 3B – Mets
Victor Diaz OF - Mets
David Aardsma RHP – Giants
Dewan Brazelton RHP – D’Rays
Carl Crawford OF – D’Rays
Zach Duke LHP – Pirates
Scott Kazmir LHP – D’Rays
Robert Andino SS - Marlins
Matt Cain RHP – Giants
Brian McCann C - Braves
Dustin McGowen RHP – Blue Jays
BJ Upton SS – D’Rays
Dana Eveland LHP - Brewers
Michael Morse SS - Mariners
Justin Upton SS - #1 pick
Jeff Clement C – Mariners
Lastings Milledge OF – Mets
Chris Lubanski OF – Royals
Ryan Sweeney OF – White Sox
Jarrod Saltalamacchia C – Braves
Andrew Miller LHP – #1 Prospect 06 draft

Pro Players
Spring Training Feb-Apr
Season Apr-Sept (oct)
The better young ones - Instructional or Fall Ball Sept-Nov
Many - Winter Ball Oct-Jan
Down Time is up to the club and/or the individual.
Some pro players (MLB, Spring Training, Winter Ball) will play in over 250 games in one year.

Now, I’m not trying to claim anything as fact and I do believe there should be a rest period. However, there is some proof that the higher the level the more a player plays. For a large percentage of the most talented high school players, it’s that very highest level they are most interested in reaching.

Granted health is a major concern and good reason for rest and recovery. Perhaps the biggest unanswered question is just how much down time is best. Medical experts have said that most all minor injuries will heal completely in 2 weeks. This was the basis for the 15 day DL. So one could argue (and I am not) that 2 weeks off is sufficient time off for physical recovery or minor injury. Obviously with major injury much more time is required. This is the reason it goes from 15 day to 60 day DL. Some injuries resulting in surgery can require as much as 12 months off.

Finally, if a young player who is not involved in other sports wants to take time off from baseball it is perfectly fine. There are things much more important than baseball. But if you talk to those who track these things, you’ll find that often it is exactly those same kids who sign and then give it up early in their professional careers. We have many examples, but won’t list them. There’s a fine line between wanting some time off and not having the necessary drive to make it to the top.

Rest is important… Too much of it can cost dearly! Injury prevention is very important and so is continuing to improve ability and increase opportunity. While one is resting, someone else is playing. Of course, pitchers do need to watch out not to abuse their arm, but has anyone figured out exactly where improvement stops and abuse starts? Not talking the obvious abuse that we have all seen, but the danger zone that have produced many different opinions, even among the experts.

The only thing I know for certain is the best way to protect a pitchers arm is DON’T LET HIM PITCH AT ALL! Knowing that is not going to happen in most cases, I agree with those who error on the side of caution. Then again it is a well known fact that most all pitchers who make it to the top could be labeled risk takers. The one thing that we have noticed most all MLB pitchers have in common – they have no fear!!!!

I apologize for the high school/MLB comparisons. Please ignore them if they are not appropriate in this discussion. I do think people should understand just how hard it is to be a Big League player. More importantly, I think people should know just how hard it is to become one!

In the end, even if we were not involved in the business we are, I think people need to see all sides, use caution and make intelligent decisions.

IMO - Those that burn out in high school would have surely burnt out somewhere along the way before reaching the top. Personally I have never understood burn out, what is that? Why didn’t Cal Ripken Jr. burn out? I once had a job I hated and I did burn out quickly. Can people who are successful doing something they truly love suffer from burn out? Could someone give examples? It has always confused me! I can understand parents causing their son to get burnt out on baseball. But I don’t understand someone who truly wants to play having to be protected against burn out.

The one certain thing I’ve heard here is nobody is making anybody do anything! And nobody (definitely not me) has all the right answers.

There is also a very big difference between being "burnt out" and being banged up real bad.

Both are important for parents to recognize IMO.

What is the "PARENT FACTOR" in burn out and too much?

TR,

IMO - any parent that is watching the process objectively - can tell the difference between "burn out" and just being hammered to pieces.

itsinthegame and TRHit:

Since I rambled on about 'burn-out' perhaps I should clarify.

First I agree with its and his making a distinction between getting banged up physically and 'burn-out' which is more psychological than physical.

He is correct that they both are important in the overall welfare of the ballplayer and parents should keep an eye on both situations. Both can bring the ballplayer down.

Secondly to your question TR... 'burn-out' should be looked for by not only parents but also teammates and coaches. Performance will assuredely drop in the ballplayer that is slipping towards 'burn-out'.

As a parent I know how each of my four ballplayers love the game and this love is the uppermost factor in their progress and day-to-day motivation. Its a valuable asset and should be treated as such.

To a parent, who knows the ballplayers more intimately than teammates or coaches, it is their, IMHO, duty to be vigilant and catch problems early so that they don't become too large and difficult to overcome.

The ballplayers love the game...and the parents love the ballplayers.

IMO I agree with the point that it's really up to the individual. Not the parents or coaches. My son has played as much baseball as he has because he loves the game and he loves the competition and because "he" wanted to. When he wasn't playing baseball he played football and basketball. In fact, as a senior, he took a "break" from baseball during the off-season and tried out for (and made) the h.s. varsity basketball team. Personally, I think it's great that he kept busy with sports because he didn't have time to get into other "unhealthy" things, as lafmom put it. I also wonder if our generation, as a whole, aren't coddling our kids a little. Here comes the old, "When I was a kid..." I got up in the morning and went to the playground and played baseball, basketball, football, scattered dodge ball, fire escape tag, four corners, etc., many times all in the same day, and didn't get home until dark. Now we worry about whether our kids are too tired or over worked in a certain sport. That's not to say that some kids don't over do it, for whatever reason, such as throwing 150 pitches or more in a game. But on the whole, I think, kids these days don't "play" near as much as we did when we were kids.

Gotwood,

I know “burn out” exists, I just don’t know for sure what it means.

I think it means someone is not enjoying what they are doing so they start to lose interest.

I don’t think anyone can come close to reaching their potential if they don’t enjoy what they are doing and lose interest.

There can be many reasons why they don’t enjoy what they are doing. IMO #1 reason is lack of success! Those who are the most successful play the game every day and most want to play it for as long as someone wants them. Among this group are the MLB players!

I don’t know if guarding against “burn out” should be an option or if it’s even possible. IMO it just happens. Often it is used as the excuse for not reaching the top. Though I have seen cases where I believe “parents have been the major reason for the “burn out”. I do think parents should guard against being the major reason. Maybe that is what you meant in the first place.

Sometimes burnout occurs because of things not directly involved with the sport.......burnout is more of a stress related thing than an issue of playing too much, too long, etc.

DADDYBAGS:

I agree that we may, as a whole, coddle our children too much nowadays as compared to the past. Your observation about playing all day (in the past) is a good one. Great players existed back then, certainly, as they do now. We were doing things right then and also now.

I disagree somewhat with the thought that 'the individual', and not parents or coaches, is responsible for a players success. Yes, the individual is primarily responsible for their own success but the parents and coaches provide a supporting role.

An example would be a young player who clearly is deserving of some award but is denied because some other more demanding or influential parent pulls some strings. A young player may not have the knowledge or skills to grasp what has happened and left alone to sort it out may feel dejected and turn away from the game (maybe even temporarily). A parent, or even a coach, that clearly sees what has happened is in a position to explain the situation in as positive light as possible so that the dejection is at least neutralized and the player moves on. Turn a negative into a positive in other words. The point is that the mistreatment had nothing to do with the player's ability (remember ...he clearly deserved the accolades) and everything to do with greed or pettiness on the part of some other adult! Sometimes young players need help sorting stuff like this out.

PGStaff:

I agree with everything you said. Success certainly breeds confidence and an abundance of confidence motivates players and allows them to excel.

Your thought on 'parents being the major reason for burn-out' is very valid and gets to my point.

I've known too many players at a young age (say 10 through 14) that were primarily turned off to baseball because of the player's parent(s). For a bunch of reasons (but primarily because of unrealistic expectations) parents can become the biggest liability to a player. Remember those threads on HM parents?

I think guarding against 'burn-out' by using the relatively deeper well of wisdom that a parent possesses as compared to their children is not only possible but necessary.

You could look at it this way also...imagine a player that encounters a difficulty and stumbles along the way and receives no outside guidance or support from anyone. Contrast that player with one that is faced with the same set of circumstances but receives wisdom, support, and guidance from others.

In my opinion the latter player will be less likely to 'burn-out' than the former player.

"Burn-out' exists and you are correct in stating that the most successful players will rise to the top. In my opinion the rise to the top is quicker and more assured when 'burn-out' is avoided. Especially, as you put it, if it is used as a crutch or an excuse not to try.

Aside from the care that one must take with a young man's arm it is really an anatomical coincidence whether your son can throw at a very high velocity and do so over a long season without suffering injury. But it it is also important that the coaches monitor usage at an average rate of 15 to 20 pitches per inning. As long as that rate is maintained a pitcher should be able to throw year round without any danger to his arm.

The most important aspect of throwing for pitchers is controlling the amount of pitches in bullpen warmups. I've watched some pitchers throw over a hundred in the bull pen then go in to the game and lose it after three innings. When a pitcher is warming up a coach should be there to monitor the pitch rate, speed and mechanical correctness.

grateful:

I agree.

Gotwood,

Your last post was a goody! Even I could understand it! That makes a lot of sense! Thanks

Great topic. I posted this past summer my daughter's regime. She pitched a pretend game, fielded 100 balls and hit 150 balls everyday. SHE ASKED TO DO IT. She says her goal is the Olympic Team. She was MVP of a 19 team tournament recently and... We played in a tournament 2 weekends ago. My kid is presently playing s-o-c-c-er, Middle School Basketball and Softball. That same weekend of our last tournament, my kid played in a s-o-c-cer tournament, and played two Middle School Basketball games. We have always been parents of support and in fact ask her to NOT PLAY SO MANY SPORTS. Last week, we went to workout for softball. She was so tired. She wanted to "get her work in." We got to the gym and she ask, "Dad can we go home?" SURE! Kids have to be kids. We need to LISTEN to them. They will tell you how much they want to work. They know when they need a break. As parents we too know it in our heart if we listen to ourselves with the truth! IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY DON'T STILL WANT THAT REWARD AT THE END OR THAT THEY HAVE GIVEN UP ON THEIR DREAMS. Yes, it can be too much but only if we make it that way. JMHO!

quote:

Originally posted by cbg:
This same topic has been kicked around for several years. I watched a program on TV last year where they interviewed one of the SEC coaches and it was interesting as to what they had to say abot playing baseball year around.

Pitchers: They need a break!!!! The coach stated that often the pitchers they sign are damaged goods before they show up on campus. They pitch in the Fall, High School season, & for their Summer league teams. These kids never give their arm a rest. The coach felt that the pitchers should take a rest from baseball and play another sport.

Position Players: Again the coach felt that while their arms were probably ok they too needed a break from baseball 365 days per year. His suggestion was for position player to play another sport just to take their mind off baseball. Continue to workout in the weight room and maybe hit one day each week but only if the players wanted to. The coach felt like the good athletes could get back into baseball condition in 4 to 6 weeks and would be fine.

When ask about the risk of injury in another sport he reminded everyone that these are high school athletes and they could fall walking down the hallway at school.

Good post, I do believe that most coaches of top college programs will say the same.

My son's pitching coach told him what limit he would like him to stay with in senior year and summer before college, so I guess there must be something to the above post.

Its,
Good post. Parents really don't realize that by the time their sons get to college, after playing all spring/summer and then beginning a conditioning program unlike they have ever seen in their life, they should have taken a break. This has NOTHING to do with not loving the game. I get a kick out of parents who think that if their kids stop for one minute they don't love it anymore. Wrong.

Lafmom,
After reading your post I realize that geographical areas do dictate play. We limited ours because of year round playing conditions.

Burn out. Where does that come into the discussion. Burn out occurs in just about everything we do, regardless if we love it or not. How many of you have felt burnt out at work, a day or two off re-energized you. Did it mean yuo wanted to quit? Parents get nuts when their son says they need a rest. first thoughts, uh oh, he doesn't LOVE it anymore!

KC,
You are correct, they love the game and can't atay away. That doesn't have to mean "play" 365 days a year. Our pitcher "rested" in the fall, but he still played, either at first, DH, CF, but not on the mound. Most players changed positions, just for a break and to give it a rest. Infielders went out, outfielders went in, etc. They still played the game they love, enjoyed their new "temp" positions and considered it a "rest". They had a whole bunch of fun! They did this because they played year round.

PG,
Great post as usual. After reading over your post twice, I agree, no one has the right answers, common sense needs to take over. I don't think it has anything ot do with NOT going to showcases, but being sensible about when and where and how much.

Bags,
I am sorry but for a pitcher who has played all spring, summer and COMMITTED, there is absolutely NO reason why he should be pitching in a fall tournament. He has plenty of time in the spring to show off his stuff. This is when it gets to be too much. Listen to the coach.

You can't tell another parent what is right or wrong for their player, but one can give opinions. In my opinion some of the IP given here is way out of hand. I think some parents think the more their players pitch, the better they will get.
For those who don't know, son was invited to play at cape last summer. He didn't go. His pitching coach, his parents and he himself decided that 70 innings during season was enough if he wanted to participate in fall practice. He also felt he needed a break. Did he miss out on the summer scouting, you bet. Was it important, no. Fall practice and instrution was. I can just hear the chucklesn ow, 70 innings is ALL he pitched? Well, there was practice, bull pens, warm ups on the mound not included.

Most of my comments are made regarding pitchers. I am pretty passionate about overuse of the pitchers arm as many of you know from prior discussions.

I also get a lot of pm's asking about sons development as a pitcher what advice could i give. The first thing I always say is, limited innings and limited pitch counts in a game. And lay off the CURVEBALLS. Son is 20, just learning REALLY how to pitch a curve safely ,he didn't need it to win or get to college.

You all can speculate all that you want. But when I hear from one of the best college pitching coaches in the country his theories regarding limits and overuse, I tend to believe he has more knowledge on the subject and offers great advice!

Tiger Paw Mom:

I think 'burn-out' is relevant to this discussion for the reasons that I've posted elsewhere above.

I agree with you that everyone can feel some 'burn-out'in whatever endeavor they are involved with. You get a little rest and move on...refreshed to take on another day or task.

What I was warning against in previous posts was the 'burn-out' that ultimately brings a player to the point of quitting the game. It can be an accumulative type of situation.

I've seen it happen to a number of good, primarily young, players and I feel it is my duty as a parent to guard my four ballplayers against the debilitating type of 'burn-out' and not the common, everyday, 'garden' variety which I agree with you is normal and harmless.

It is sad to see a promising, excited, young player one year and search for him the next year only to find out that this player is no longer playing the game. If 'burn-out' was a contributing factor to this player's downfall do you think measures should have been taken to prevent this from occurring?

I believe they should.

BTW...you made some excellent points in the later part of your last post!

Lots of great posts so far, thank you to all who've contributed. What I'm hoping to do with this thread is give some perspective to those who aren't as deeply involved as many who've responded to my original question. Hopefully, it'll keep a few more kids and parents out of the burnout or overuse injury problem.

Here are a few more random thoughts and questions. At the Area Code Games this year, scouts were genereally disappointed with the performances and talent level. One of the main concerns expressed was the lack of velocity of some of the top pitching prospects. There were kids at the AC Games who were clocking in the mid to high 80s, that were expected to be consistently blowing 90s+ gas. I wonder how many of those kids who couldn't throw with the same velocity as they'd previously shown were pitchers who threw heavy innings for the previous 8 or 9 months? From the ones I know of, I can tell you some of them fit this description. I didn't hear of anyone being overly impressed with most of the catchers; I wonder how many innings most of those kids had squatted over the previous 9 months?

We also have the "other sports" conflicts. Nowadays, if your son plays football, s****r (see, I can say that word without choking), volleyball, and it especially seems - basketball, they have all kinds of conflicts on their time, that might otherwise be given to baseball. Many of the high school coaches out here on the west coast now expect their players to participate in their particular sport most of the year. This is tough for a two-sport athlete, and I don't know how a three-sport kid does it anymore, especially if he's maintaining good grades.

For the last few years, I've had kids who can't play on a given day because of basketball, football, their high school summer baseball team, etc. Some try to do it all, and some end up doing too much. I agree with PGJerry about the ones resting being passed, so to speak, by those that are still working at it, but at what point does it become so much of an overload that we and our kids have lost perspective on life in general beyond the very narrow topic of baseball?

I've been careful, and I think very lucky too, to not have a single player come down with a serious injury over the last five years, but I also know that it might be inevitable that someday I have a kid go down because he's thrown too many pitches for all the different competing interests that want his services. We've shut kids down, played them at other positions, played them less, etc. in order to keep "the load" within reason, but are their other coaches doing the same, or do they think Great, I can use him even more now that his summer team is using him less?

At what point does a kid who can't throw as hard in August hurt his chances to go in next year's draft because his velocity isn't the same as a scout saw in March? More to follow later....

gotwood,
I don't look at it as burn out, just growing up and moving on.
Those players usually didn't have the passion to continue playing in the first place. They may have been very good, but just didn't want it to take up anymore of their time.

06,
I know of one very highly ranked player who can't get much velocity these days. Seems that he was so busy showing off his stuff last spring and summer, he just may be tired. I am hoping he is taking some time off. I also know of a few college coaches who won't offer opportunities because of it.

06catcherdad:

RE: your thoughts on last year's Area Code games.

Would you expect last year's results to be any different from previous years? In other words did last year's group do anything much different than previous year's groups that would affect their pitching or catching preformances?

I don't really know.

Maybe others can shed light on this?