'Is player entitlement ruining our sport?'

Excellent article with some great points from two very respected college coaches. 

Nice article, thanks.

 

This got me curious:

 

"As is typical with Augie Garrido and his zen master ways, he reminds his players all the time that what is important is not the nice amenities and rock star status they play the game with, it’s the game that adds to their experience in life."

Because of course Augie is probably most known by casual fans for his very un-zen-like rants on YouTube.  So I googled the term "Augie Garrido Zen" to see what popped up (can you tell it's a slow work day) and found this:

 

http://www.austinchronicle.com...s/2008-05-30/629432/

 

Did you all know that Richard Linklater (Boyhood, Dazed and Confused, etc.) made a documentary called "Inning by Inning" about Garrido? I have to see that!

 

 

 

 

Garrido, Graham and Martin are the guys that would know best.  They see it or don't see it year after year after year.  My question is what is the root cause of it and why....typically it is about money.   I think entitlement is ruining sports in general. but that is coming from an old fart.   

I really enjoyed the Linklater documentary on Garrido. I actually thought it taught me a bit about who he is and created a way better context for those "rant videos" on youtube. I still hate bunting...

Two classics threads in one:

 

1)  Kids today suck - always a great topic ...and wrong.

2)  NCAA Coaches biting the hand that has fed them... the players. Just shut up. 

 

FULL DISCLAIMER - I despise NCAA coaches who disparage players who have done nothing wrong (i.e. illegal) for any reason. 

 

Ole Augie gets to pull down $900k in salary and that is before the shoe, camp and anything else kicks in.  Guessing Graham isn't doing any worse at Rice. 

 

So if they have to sweat a kid who is getting them paid worrying about his professional prospects ...I think they should be trying to figure how to make that happen instead of whining about it and hammering them. 

 

 

 

Fenway - It is about money and power....for the coaches and the problem for them is anyone challenging them on any level. 

Players have no power and no money so projecting the issue onto them is simply looking at it backward IMO. 

Luv, I tend to agree. This wasn't an issue in the past because the $$$ wasn't there in the past. Baseball is big business whether we want it to be or not. Coaching, playing,  training, equipment, tournaments, showcases, the list goes on and on

They need to worry about getting people in the stands.  I watched a UAB vs Alabama game the other night and all 12 people in the stands seemed excited about the game.

Interesting, provocative article.

 

My off-the-top-of-the-head response to coaches might sound a lot like what a pitching coach might say to his pitcher who is facing an umpire's challenging strike zone: "Figure it out."

 

It doesn't do any good to talk about how things were in the "good 'ole days." If some of today's players tend to come in with a different view of the world, but it still takes a certain collection of fundamental traits to succeed at the game, then it's up to today's coaches to find a way to bring them around to a view and daily habits that give them a better opportunity to succeed.

Auggie and Wayne are just about at the end of the line.  I go to Rice games and he doesn't make it out of the dugout for the entire game.

Great article. This isn't about Garrido whining, this is about a society of kids & ballplayers told that they can do no wrong from the time they are born. Everyone gets a "Participation Award" and there can be no valedictorians or MVP's because we might hurt someones feelings. Kids quit their high school programs because the "coaches suck" and they change travel ball teams the first time they don't start. They aren't being brought up in the real world, and when they get their first taste of how things really work when their travel coach and mommy & daddy aren't kissing their *&^ it isn't pretty. That has nothing to do with Garrido being "stuck in his old ways", its the unfortunate reality of the world today. 

 

Have any of you tried to hire a recent college graduate? It's terrifying. Start in a mail room? Intern? Work for entry level wages? But mommy & daddy said I could be in Executive Management on day one?!? 

As can my eldest who received a purple heart in Afghanistan as a combat medic. 

luv baseball,

 

I'm not disagreeing with you and you bring up valid points.  I'm not projecting the issue onto the players 100% there certainly are other factors to consider.  Garrido, Graham, Martin and others are coaches that have seen generations of ballplayers come through their locker rooms...that is valuable information.  Sure they are making good coin, but they are following the rules of the NCAA and getting paid by their marketplace.  Do I think the players should be paid...that is a discussion for another day.

 

The buck stops with the NCAA not the coaches in terms of sharing revenue and the growth of the sport.  The coaches can do nothing about that.  

 

Back to the main point.....the coaches observations over 30-40 years is worth consideration IMHO.   Do I think all college athletes are petulant entitled brats....heck no.  Do I think there is a rise in college athletes that act like petulant entitled brats....heck yes. That is what I want to understand. From the time I graduated college in 1984 as a student athlete to the time my oldest son graduated from college in 2014 as a student athlete there has been a significant overall change in the mindset of student athletes.   I can't ignore it because I've seen it with the players my son(s) have played against and with over the last 15 years in rec ball, various levels of travel ball, high school, Legion and college baseball.   From my first hand experiences, I understand what Garrido, Graham and Martin are saying.  I think they are saying exactly what I'm saying...there is a trend and the trend is going in the wrong direction in terms of entitlement and expectations.  

 

As always JMO.

Marklater & lionbaseball  Great posts.  Powerful content.  And of course, best wishes on the bright futures of your boys.  ... Let me also note:  Not a single pronoun was included in your comments.  I generally stop reading posts when I come across the 2nd 'they' or the first 'society'.

Yes.  You guys and your kids are awesome. 

However, let's keep in mind that Garrido probably misses the days when he could hu,iliate and berate players at will with no one challanging him. And those recent college grads? Maybe they are a little unrealistic about what they expect, but maybe we (anyone over 45 or 50) might have been, too if going to college had put us $150-$200K in debt. I might not have been as willing to passively take grunt work paying peanuts to get my foot in the door. Like I said, their viewpoint may be unrealistic, but maybe not so ridiculous.

Fenway - Agree totally that people change over time, it is a very natural thing which is why you have the generational tension IMO.  I do not buy that the kids today are worse than before.  If that was the case we would have never invented the printing press, medicines etc.  Our children will astound us with their achievements...because we cannot imagine the future.

 

My Great Grandmother was born in the horse & buggy era and lived to see the moonshot.  Just 3 generations later.  Kids always have outstripped their parents achievement for the entire history of human beings, their is little to evidence that is going to change.

 

We also no longer bow to kings & queens who derive their power from God.  We wised up.  I also agree with you that the NCAA is the equivelent and the biggest boogeyman in this example.  The King had Lords and Barons etc.  The coaches (and AD's) are the nobility of the NCAA's royal system.  The status quo suits them fine and running organizations where their word is law is feudal to the core.  My opinion of their opinion is that it is wrong. 

 

Kids today work harder then ever before to maximize their talent.  There are 1,000's of testimonials to that on this site.  The fact that they are concerned and pay attention to the outcome of that effort strikes me as an incredibility mature and reasonable thing on their part.  I would wonder why anyone would expect them to act any differently.

 

Entitlement ...no way I am buying into that, they earned those scholies. 

 

Not liking more assertive kids taking ownership of their futures...that is not on them.  That is our problem with them being smarter than we were and not accepting the whatever comes their way like a beggar.

Seems like it's every generation's right and obligation to disparage the next generation about how easy they have it. My grandfather had to quit school and go to work in the cotton mills when he was 9. My father was able to stay in school, but had to walked 5 miles to get there, with cardboard in his shoes to cover the holes in the bottom. My hardship growing up with not getting a participation trophy.

 

Two thoughts on the article:

- I wasn't even aware that college baseball had been ruined.

- It's too bad these coaches are powerless to not recruit these spoiled brats. If only there were some alternative.

 

I only wish I could like this more than once.

When people malign "this generation" the knock is usually on the parenting that made these kids whatever they are.  Some of that critique is valid, and some is not.

Auggie could easily find a blue-collar school to coach again, and live on the salary it would pay. 

Kids are kids and they are going to get away with whatever you let them get away with.  Funny thing is they will produce when you show them how, model it and help them achieve it.  Last time I checked that's what our job is as parents, teachers, coaches, neighbors and anybody else they come in contact with.  The problem isn't in the kids - it's in the parents who allow the kids to act certain ways.  Kids aren't born entitled - they are blank slates that take on personalities similar to parents or their buddies if their parents aren't around much.  We create entitled kids.  I hate the WWII generation comparisons because that group was unique.  They deserve every accolade thrown at them because they earned it but they didn't have any real opportunities at home.  Middle of the Great Depression the unemployment rate was around 25 - 30% so what jobs did they have available.  Yes there was true patriotism in their reasons for joining the military and they are truly the greatest generation but they also didn't have anything else at home either.

 

We have kids today who choose the military for whatever reason they choose - better job skills coming out, college paid for, patriotism, whatever but still no real difference than WWII generation.  Kids becoming men through the military.  Kids become men through college.  Kids become men by entering the workforce.  They have a few things similar in background - they either have great parents who steer them the right way or they have went through some hardships / challenges which forced them to stop being entitled and get to work.  

 

When the pavement hits the ground you either get to work or get run over.  Doesn't matter if you're entitled or not - you'll figure it out eventually.

Good article thanks.

I know that this won't be a popular reply, those guys may be old and have old school values but they are 100% correct. They have winning programs so they must be doing something right.  

The athletes of today seem to have a whole new outlook and the point about being asked to play another position to help the team and not in agreement is all too common these days.  

 

I am not fan of Mike Martin but he is one of the most laid back coaches I have ever seen at work. I dont think that much bothers him.  

 

Maybe it is just me, I don't see that much difference in kids today.  I do see a major difference in other areas, like technology, that make life different for most all of us.

 

I see great kids, polite kids, hard working kids, kids with a great sense of humor, humble kids, you name it.  I also see bad kids, trouble makers, lazy kids, stupid kids, impolite kids, you name it.

 

Same goes for the parents.

 

Kind of reminds me of my youth.

 

At the same time things do change and people need to adjust. I don't think you can put a label on kids, they are all different.  Plus they have learned most of what they know from us and we too are all different.  One of the few things everyone has in common is that we all make mistakes.

 

When I see things like the many arguments about the poor minor league players and the way they are treated like trash, deserve more money, etc. Then I see many kids that would gladly do it for nothing if they only had the opportunity, I wonder how a sense of entitlement fits. It aint easy and a sense of entitlement just gets in the way. The club dictates what you are entitled to. I too wish the players received more money in the minor leagues, at least those that need it. But never, not ever, will I feel sorry for some kid playing professional baseball. I feel much more sorry for those with talent that never get that chance.

I couldn't agree with Luv Baseball anymore. Maybe Augie and crew should drop down and coach D3 for 35K a year, for the love of the game.

Furthermore, I'll add, these guys are baseball coaches, they have multiple management and staff people above them and below them to basically run an organization of 35 "employees" with no profit/loss responsibility, so, frankly I'm not all that impressed.

The line that got me was: “In the era when Augie and I grew up, children were supposed to be seen and not heard.”

 

First, college ball players are not children -- though Graham implies such.

 

More importantly -- why in the world would any parent try to train this into their children? Telling them they should just be quiet not only sets them up for failure, it's terribly risky. Bad, uninformed, domineering, ugly adults exist. I want my college daughter and HS son to recognize them -- challenge them, run from them ... whatever. 

Is it possible some of the old time coaches feel the players are entitled because they can't yell at them and intimidate them like they could twenty years ago? It doesn't mean coaches can't be hard on players. But some of what used to be called tough love and discipline is now defined as abuse. And there's a video camera in every pocket now.

I just read the article by the two college coaches and find it hard to believe that as competitive as is college baseball that a player would question the coach about his decisions.  

 

He gave a perfect example to explain his statement.

“In 1975, my first year at Cal State Fullerton, we made it to the College World Series,” he said. “We had a guy named Dave Robb who had played second base all season and when we got to Omaha we moved him to first base. He told me, ‘Whatever helps the team coach.’

“If I did that today, the player would look at me and say, ‘Are you kidding me? I’ve got four select team coaches, three professional scouts and my mailman who used to play triple-A baseball telling me that my future is at second base. What are you doing to me?’”

 

I'm wondering if this is more of a story that young kids hear from the grandparents about walking in 2 foot of snow to school everyday. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I fall on the side of thinking this article is a crock.  My kid isn't in college yet, but everything I've read on this site suggests that the amount of work and effort to make it today is immense.  Did players in the 70's lift weights every day at 6am, then practice all afternoon?  Spend countless hours in the cages?  Criss-cross the country all spring?  Go to Alaska or Cape Cod in the summer to play, then go back to school and play all fall?  Workout all winter to be in shape for the spring?  I think these kids earn what they get, which is the opposite of entitled.

 

If he's complaining about the relative luxuries associated with college ball today, well how on earth do you blame the kids for some alum donating millions for a new locker room?  He's pining away for the old days when players had hardship, but he's not interested in giving up his luxuries/salary - what's with that?

 

If it's a bad attitude of the players he's complaining about, I second MidAtlantic's view that there are plenty of kids out there with great attitudes so if they are recruiting kids they don't like it's on them.  Of all people he is in a position to surround himself with whatever type of player, from whatever type of background, with whatever value system he prefers…I don't buy what he's selling.

I was listening to the Cardinals post-game show last night. Mike Shannon stats that he got $6,000 for winning the 1964 WS. Rookies were paid $5,000. Yeah, the money has changed significantly.

 If you look at the top 25-50 programs in the country they all pretty much remain in the same ranking year to year. Same type of coaches, they are tough, high powered, egotistical and they don't put up with a lot of BS.  How they present themselves to you and your son during the recruiting phase is completely different than the coach your sons meet up with when they get to college. You soon begin to realize why these guys are so good at what they do, and why they turn out players who get drafted, and some are very highly prized ML prospects. 

 

I don't think that young athletes (not talking about military) are different than they always were, there are just many who can get past all the stuff you need to do to get where you want to go. Some are better at adjusting to tough situation than others. Why that is,  I don't know. The way I see it, if your son doesn't call you up to tell you he wants to quit at some point, he isn't getting pushed enough to reach his capability and you should thank the lord everyday you sent him to be with a man who will shape his future to the man that you want him to be later on.

 

This has nothing to do with how hard your son works to get where he is going. In fact, IMO, the harder they work, the harder time they have accepting that things are a lot different than they were before they got to college.

 

I know there is a whole group of people here who would never have one negative thing to say (unless its about the coach) about their pre college HS players attitude of himself (especially after receiving an offer or a very nice scholarship to pump up the ego).    I wonder if your opinion will change about these type of coaches (many old school and tough as nails) after your son gets to college or done with the college experience.

 

I am not ashamed to admit  that my son was a bigtime stud here and he got to school with the same attitiude and he learned pretty fast that doesn't work, it took him a semester to adjust and he was not doing well in class either.  He had a good fall in practice and then he couldn't throw a strike his first season.   You now have to compete against guys that are 3-4 years older and that coach is a lot tougher than you ever expected him to be, day to day, many hours per day, 7 days a week.  You were the starter now you are the reliever , you were the ss and now you are the second basemen.  You never sat the bench but now you do, and its usually when the team is losing or winning by a huge margin, how fun is that! Most of these high powered, very egotistical coaches know just how to handle your player, usually its my way or the highway.  And you know if you ask the coach where you stand you are not going to get the answer you want to hear. Pretty old school, but this is how it is. Many dont like it, they either learn to live with it, adjust, understand what they have to do,  or they leave.

 

I really think that was what Augie was talking about, entitlement doesn't mean that you raised a bad kid or that they are spoiled, it means that in many situations the player is there because he has a huge amount of talent, and that he got to play and do what he wanted, and rarely challenged. More than likely they have never palyed with anyone like this before.   I mean seriously folks, just what are you really expecting from coaches. Do you think that when they mess up they are going to get, "oh its ok, next time will be better"!  NOT!!!!

And your son is going to see rants often, maybe not like Garrido's, but you just wait until they lose a game they SHOULD have won.

 

Funny, I was talking to someone recently about this, they were telling me about a program where the kids show up and in shock about the expectations. Lots of top talent, they just don't want to work hard. They want to enjoy the college exprience as well and not willing to sacrifice some things in order to get better.  They want to get to the pros but have no clue the blood, sweat and tears that goes into it.  I know mine felt like that and I understand why his pitching coach was relentless and I also understand why he is always in the top 10 in the standings.  I also know that son and him remain very close and he respects him more than anyone and realizes that this man changed him from a boy to a man. 

 

This should be the type of men that you WANT your son to be coached by which would be  the Garridos, the Grahams and the Martins of the college BB world. Maybe for some its time to retire, but IMO there are very few really good coaches who could fill their shoes.

 

Exactly.  I'm sure plenty of blue collar coaches would like to make $900k a year and not get fired for a DUI.  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augie_Garrido. 

Player entitlement? Is coach entitlement really better?

Hypocritical to lecture about lack of toughness and responsibility in players when you're making $900k or more largely off of their efforts and commitment (and ability to go practice for the team good, when you could go study and improve your grades).  Trade your $900k salary for what coaches used to make in the 70s and we'll talk).  

As a coach, your responsibility is to coach/motivate today's players, not the ones you used to coach.  If you don't like someone else will be happy to do so.  It's a two way street...is it ok for coaches be out for themselves, but players have to grin and bear it?  He seems to be awfully focused on how this affects him ("I have to live with this #$$% the rest of MY life": https://youtu.be/Is6xa3UlTYs  Maybe that doesn't work as well now. We all change with the times or get left behind.  As a HS coach, I KNOW there are plenty of great kids today.)

Makes me laugh a little about the comments that these coaches USED to rant and yell))

 

TPM is 100 percent correct. They still do yell and rant,it's a big business especially at big division 1 programs. Winning is the number one priority or coaches lose their jobs.

 

I think the money in college sports changed as recruiting is different now and no transfer without sitting out a year. Big money and kids want the programs with the n ice fields and locker rooms. I Dont think they feel entitled to it. But most kids when they go on visits are going to like the programs with the  best facilities.

 

Especially top players. It's pretty tough for a 16 17 year old kid to walk through these schools and see what they have to offer and not want the best. I don't think that's entitlement but just the way college sports are today and the money involved.

 

I know from what I saw from my own sons program and friends that played in other big schools they all worked very hard. They worked hard to get there and worked hard to stay in lineup. Maybe a few try to not do as much in the weight room, etc or dog certain aspects but it all catches up to them sooner than later.

 

Both coaches in the article are very successful and they still yell and rant. I know from talking to many players across the conferences that parents would be pretty surprised at some of the top programs and how on it is. 

 

It's not for the faint of heart as many have said. Maybe it was different in the past but the players today are growing up in a different world. End result is the same it's all about winning .

 

 

 

The winner's share for the 67 World Series was projected to be about 10k. Jim Lonborg of the Red Sox wrote 10k in his glove as a reminder and motivation. He said he desperately needed the money.

 

I remember when Carl Yastrzemski signed a three year, 500k contact after the Series. The other owners said a contact like that would ruin the pay structure of baseball and bankrupt team. What were the Red Sox thinking signing a player to a multi year contract. What was the purpose? And for 500k? Ludicrous!

 

Ty Cobb when he was playing: The money (big contracts) is ruining baseball.

 

Perspective is relative. But Curt Flood definitely changed pro sports.

Re: TPM's last post ....

 

Bill Cosby once had a comedy routine about the behavior of kids. He said, "I'll take you out and make another one just like you." 

 

College sports have much the same attitude. "I'll cut you and recruit another just like you." It's not like high school. Talent isn't restricted to boundaries. The world is a recruiting pool. Very few athletes are so special they can't be replaced. It allows he coach to be tough. Don't like it? Don't let the door hit you in the rear on your way out.

A friend of mine used to be an 18u travel coach in Texas. He said the Univ. of Texas players have it so easy when they travel many of them can't handle the rigors of the low minors.

I've really enjoyed reading all of the reactions to the article.  Its a case where I feel like I can see all the angles to the discussion. 

 

I know that every generation challenges the previous generation.  Often a good thing, but not always.  We shouldn't deny that.  Its pretty easy to give examples of both sides of that coin.

 

I share some of the opinions that say, 'Take your view and shove it Augie.'  On the other hand, I've personally hired dozens of young college grads into a totally unrelated profession (engineering) recently and he's got a lot of things right too IMO.  You simply cannot say he doesn't and be credible.

 

The trick is figuring out how to motivate this young generation.  It isn't necessarily money that does it, but at the same time companies are spending millions of $$ trying to find the secret sauce to get the most out of them.  Sociologists are studying this generation with great interest.  Even 60 Minutes did a story on them complete with references to the 'everybody plays' and 'everyone gets a trophy' story lines.

 

Some of it seems cultural to me - that is, where did the young man/woman come from?  Suburbia?  Inner city?  And then there's country of origin.  There are analogies in my profession, but think about what some of the Latin players are willing to go through....vs. what my own kids took for granted.  Its there, its real.  My own son spent a winter in the Dominican playing ball and it changed him...a lot!!

 

So there's no denying that this generation is 'different' and there are coaches that figure it out and will win with them, and those that won't.  I can think of examples of both very easily.

 

Maybe the real question is how are we/you raising your own son/daughter?  Do our own kids seem "entitled" at times based on things we did as parents?  I think its a thought worth pondering.  Nothing more, just worth pondering.