'Is player entitlement ruining our sport?'

If you think kids today are "entitled" look at who raised them.  Then, if you decide it's all their parents' fault, think about who raised their parents.

 

The world changes, people don't (much). If you can't come to grips with that as an adult, you're always going to be annoyed by how much better off everyone has it today than we did when we were kids.

The players I coached were more dedicated. They were just as if not more respectful. And better young men than I was or my team mates were when I played. I just got back from watching a college DH. I spoke to several players. Awesome young men who play hard and respect the game.I have always been partial to baseball players. I believe they represent some of the finest young men this planet has to offer. Do they have it better than wve did? Well I hope so. Isn't that the goal? To give our next generation something even better? Maybe I'm not capable of being objective. But I would rather be around the guys that play this game than anyone.

 

This is the often overlooked aspect of this discussion.  You can miss a great deal if you view things through the narrow lens of your own experiences.

I find it rather ironic that we're using the generation that brought us weed, drugs, and sit-in protests during college as a reference for upstanding youthful character.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

You can find something negative to say about every generation of kids. Adults have always thought kids were entitled/spoiled/terrible, there's at least a few hundred years worth of literary evidence. The only way people change is that the kids become the adults, both the good ones and the bad ones.

I fall into that category, and because of that I made sure my kids understood from early on that they have choices and that with those choices comes responsibility to accept the consequences.  

 

Yes we indulged our kids just like everyone else does (and still do) but they also worked in HS and learned the lesson of what it is like to actually earn money and have to spend it. My daughter didn't do so well in that lesson but son did.  She has a sense of entitlement (towards certain things) that my son never had, and I am pretty sure that the people he worked with along the way had a lot to do with that.

 

This is not a bad thing, but it is part of growing up and learning that you always cant have it your way,  and you cant tell me that kids who are pretty much given what they want, don't have any sense of entitlement?

Marklaker,

 

That is a good point, but through my own narrow lens of experience here is what I think.

 

If there is an "everyone plays" issue, I only see it at the youngest age groups or in recreational activities. Hasn't Little League had an "everyone plays" rule for several generations? Is that something bad?  How popular would baseball be if only the best ever played the game?

 

Everyone gets a trophy?  Once again, where does that happen?  I suppose there are participation awards at a some events, again mostly in the younger age groups.  For many it will be the only trophy they ever receive.  Is that a bad thing.  It's not like everyone gets the Championship trophy or the MVP trophy. Participation awards existed when I was a young boy.  Ribbons, certificates, etc., were handed out in elementary school. Guess I don't see a problem.  Does a young boy receive a participation award, and because of that they then go play college baseball expecting special treatment?

 

I'm really not interested in arguing and I understand each generation lives in a different world than previous generations.  Many things are so different from when I grew up.  I suppose some for the better, some for worse. Just like the generation that preceeded ours.

 

I know many old timers that live in the past.  To them, nothing about today will ever be as good as it was when they were young.  I think they call that, living in the past.  I often wonder what things will be like decades from now.  The one thing we can probably count on is that this generation will have many people bitching about the generations that follow them.  Not once thinking that each generation creates the next.

 

The internet, computers, television, travel, air conditioning, cell phones, microwaves, etc., the world sure has changed a lot since I was a young boy.  And I LOVE it!  The young people that work with us are great.  Hard workers, polite, intelligent, good citizens,  very talented and most all college graduates.  I'm sorry, I don't see a problem with kids, I just see a different world than the one I grew up in. I also see better athletes.

 

I will admit that technology has replaced many things that used to take a lot of effort. All in the interest of making life easier if not better.  Someday, I suppose cars will drive themselves and living past 100 will be normal.

Yes, I agree with this.  For what it's worth I'm part of that generation also.  I'm agreeing with the point that every generation has things to pick on but also many positive attributes.

I love the everyone gets a trophy thing. This maybe the only time they get a trophy and IMO supports the team concept of working together.

 

I think our kids have it much harder now than we did. The world can be a scary place. Things are expensive and hard for single people to live on their own.  College tuition is out of control.  

 

But I think that has nothing to do with how I interpreted the article.

Totally agree with Lion's take on this.  It's a general statement that just doesn't ring true.  My guess is that he knows people will read this and he's just making a preemptive strike: "If you're gonna play for me, you're gonna have to be ready to play wherever I tell you."  I have seen isolated instances of a kid's inflexibility in my son's HS program, but that inflexibility is rooted in a FATHER's convictions about his son's abilities and talents at a particular position.

I dont think that he has to say what he did to get people to want to play in his program. You have to be flexible in this game at any level. But I can see it happening, but that is not a bad thing necessarily.  Sometimes I chuckle when someone says their player has been told he will play at xyz position or hit and pitch.  If someone tells your son that, understand its a sneaky way of getting them to committ.  I say run in the other direction.

 

Funny thing about those winning coaches, they are pretty tough but they don't show that side of them until you get to know them, with him you basically know what you are going to get from Garrido.

 

I find some of the comments interesting and somewhat negative (not particularly yours).   

 

I cant help but feel that at any given moment any parent would love for their player to go play for programs like Texas or any of the top 25 for that matter.

 

JMO

I cant help but feel that at any given moment any parent would love for their player to go play for programs like Texas or any of the top 25 for that matter.

 

I think you're right. I know if that's what my son wanted and he was that good, I'd be all over it.  And I've never understood parents who were so convinced about where their kids should play.  Just getting on the field should be enough, I think, and that's what I've told, and keep telling, all three of my boys.  They gotta be able to play anywhere.  If they're fortunate enough to have the gifts to keep playing in HS and College, and onward, then honor those gifts.

Playing at a top ranked program is not for everyone. 
I think Garrido made that clear in his statement. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T3PvcpWbUIg

 

Why can't they be like we were? Perfect in every way. What's the matter with kids today?

 

- Bye Bye Birdie 1961

 

My father's generation went to war. Imagine having to charge To beach in Normandy. Or fighting at Iwo Jima. If not having to go to war of that magnitude makes my son or me spoiled I don't have a problem with it.

 

i grew up in a big brick house in Chestnut Hill, Ma. My kids grew up on the fairway of a gated country club. It didn't make any of us spoiled or entitled. I was, and my kids were raised on "you will excel in school." Anything else you want for yourself (sports) can be had with hard work and the right attitude. If you like the way you've been raised work hard and earn it for yourself.

 

Our youth sports organization (baseball, softball, basketball, soccer, field hockey) gives participation trophies to the rookie leagues. That's where it ends. When I played LL in the 60s if a player didn't earn an all star or team championship trophy he received a participation trophy when he was twelve. Everyone walked away from the experience with at least one trophy.

 

I have a cousin (now 49) who is a brilliant lawyer in one of the top law firms in the country. He was a horrible athlete. His LL participation trophy still sits on the shelf in the den of my aunt and uncle's house. He wasn't entitled. He earned a BA/MA in four years at an Ivy. He then graduated at the top of his class from a prestigious law school. He also became an Eagle Scout.

 

Yes, there are immature kids who act entitled. It's based on how they were raised. My father was born in 1924. He's a WWII vet. When I became an adult I started to see him as a very irresponsible, immature person despite his professional success. He never stopped being the frat boy until he died in a drunk driving accident at 68. He used to joke drinking at the country club made him a "sport." But if he drank at the VFW he would have been called a drunk. My uncle, his twin said my father was immature because he was the coddled, favorite son. His parents covered his tracks for every mistake he made growing up. The more things change the more they remain the same.

Just to be honest, I finally read the story that was linked at the beginning of this thread.

 

I have no problem with anything those coaches said in that article.  Maybe a bit of griping, but I'm sure all three recognize the need for adjustments.  Plàyers need to adjust to them and they need to adjust to the changes that have taken place over the past 50 years.

 

My earlier comments were just based on the discussion going on.  And originally the title was troublesome.

 

"Is Entitlement Ruining Baseball?" My answer is NO!

The title of the thread was nothing more than the title of the article. 

The title of the article was stronger than the article itself.  All the coaches quoted seemed to have pretty balanced perspectives. They know how things have changed over the course of their careers, and they have found ways to adapt, even though they may not like the changes they're adapting to.

This is a link to the story of the engagement discussed in my post, should anyone be interested:   http://northshorejournal.org/s...uished-service-cross

 

You’ll have to forgive my failing memory….there were 19 US soldiers, only 105 Taliban, and my son was 20, not 18 at the time.

All I know is that I was at a high school game the other day and between the teams there was 10 errors. routine plays not made. Of course they have the manicured field the parents booster club all the equipment nice looking uniforms. I started coaching in the 1970's was glad to have a couple bats and some balls and uniforms that were 10 years old but I will say this they had less and never complained and they played the game hard and worked hard cause they knew if they did not somebody else would take their place. No whining or complaining. Sorry for the back in the day theme but I stand by it.

God bless Sgt. Ist Class Jack White and his men.  Without hero's like these, who knows where we would be today.  I read The Outpost by Jack Tapper and you would have thought that we had learned some lessons from what your son and his men had to go through.  You have every right to be tremendously proud of your fine son!

Marlaker,

 

I salute and thank your son and all those young soldiers that serve our country.  I served in the Army 1966-1968 and it was tough.  But I was never involved in anything like what your son went through.

 

My oldest son is a retired Navy Officer.  His toughest time was not war related.  His ship was assigned to rescue people from a plane crash in middle Asia.  There were no survivors, only body parts of men, women and children.  He and his team picked up body parts for over a week with two hour naps every 24 hours.  He couldn't eat or even sleep much.  To this day he still has nightmares about that experience.  

 

All I know is there are many great young people in every generation.  And as history tells us, there are many very bad apples in every generation.  Sometimes I wonder if it's just easier to remember some things better than others from generation to generation. Maybe that is why we call them the good old days, because we dismiss the bad and remember the good. I remember when Elvis first came out.  All the old people hated the way he performed, but the younger generation loved it. Now that generation of young people are the old generation.  Seems almost natural they don't like certain things about the younger generation.

 

Once again, thanks for the link and to your son, he might have grown up in a different era, but he is just as tough and brave as those guys in World War II or any other war. He's a better man than I was at his age.  Where would we be without all those "great" young men? 

The plural of anecdotes is not data.

Personally, I didn't read the comments of Coach Garrido and Coach Graham as being all that similar and definitely did not read Coach Grahams as supporting the title chosen by the writer. I am also putting the comments of each into some perspectives based on my own impressions.

The article indicates the Garrido discussion occurred at a CSU Fullerton function earlier this year.  Anyone who followed the 2014 Fullerton season knows it was one filled with upheaval and issues. On the one side, one player(an outfielder) was on camera during a televised game looking at his cell phone, while he was in the field and during the game.

A second issue was the head coaches post game rant on the bus about everyone playing for themselves, not working hard, not playing for each other,  and how those negatives were impacting the team.  At least one team member did a video and leaked it with a very messy situation following.

Fullerton is, by history, a  blue collar program. What occurred in 1975 might still be the mind set of many within and supporting the program.  I can see why the Garrido comment would be so well received by a Fullerton audience in the context of a program and coaching staff seemingly in  very delicate status(to be polite).

What I read from Coach Graham is something I might classify as "founders" type syndrome. There is little doubt Graham built that Rice program literally from scratch. Now they have a beautiful Heckling field and all the amazing results which, while not single-handedly, very much grew from everything Graham put into that program.  What I read Graham saying was more along the lines that he wants each player to utilize baseball for life's lessons, to understand and appreciate the history of Rice baseball and to play at the level set by those who wore the uniform before, to not take for granted what they have now, all while recognizing he needs to "teach" and approach players in a very different way than he did before, and is seemingly appreciative of the fact players are seen but also heard.

If we accept that baseball is a game steeped in history, it would not be surprising to appreciate a longer term coaching staff and 2015 players would appreciate that history very differently, with some current players not appreciating it at all, some wondering who texted them and wanting to get to their cell phone during a game, and such attitudes being at the top of those the coaches want to change.

This does not mean every player is lumped in the same category by any means in my view.  On the other perspective, I don't believe coaches such as Garrido, Graham and Martin would have such longevity and success by just being bullies.  They have to be quite skilled in the way they coach, individualize and many times "teach" sometimes with a firm and stern position, I am sure.

For me, watching a televised college game with the camera on an outfielder who has his cell in his hand in full view, during the game was a first. I would never think that would happen on the baseball field, especially at a top 25 program. 

I would wonder how that is perceived in the context of the comments in the article  by those posting very intriguing and thought provoking views in this thread

Don't know about entitlement exactly......but the cost of playing higher level baseball is ensuring that mostly only the entitled get to participate.

The plural of anecdotes is not data.

 

I see what I see. 

Marklaker,

Whatever my son has accomplished in baseball can never compare to what your son has been through or accomplished. 

I think that each generation produces those that take and those that give. Those that feel they are deserving of certain rewards and those that wouldn't think twice that they deserved any kind of reward for all that they do. Its just the way it is.  Unfortunately in the wide world of sports we see all too many who act as if they are privileged as well as we see many who give back to those that come to watch them play. JMO

 

God bless your son and God bless our troops for allowing our sons to live in a free country to chose their path, whether it be a doctor, lawyer, Indian chief, president  or a baseball player.

 

 

The point is that it is not suitable to draw conclusions from that.

other than what I see or do not see I have had conversations with coaches and many support my observations with experiences with players. 

I think that the entitlement issue that where dealing with is there in a sense but I think every generation has this issue. 

 

On one hand... Yes they do get participation trophies at some point however that really doesn't mean much as long as when they get to higher level baseball a coach is honest and respectful to them to make sure they know their role on the team or if they don't make the team why and what they can do to get better to make the team the following year. 

 

I have talked to some coaches who simply ignore players when they cut them or when they don't play them which creates a parent issue that they were trying to avoid by ignoring the player. The kids come up with some reason to be mad at the coach because the coach hasn't told the kid the truth... I guess in short kids can only be entitled if we let them be entitled.