Is the knuckleball considered a 'safe pitch' in youth?

First of all at 11 years of age he wants to maintain control and be able to throw strikes where he wants them---that isn't easy for an 11 year old

Most kids are never tuaght that they can make a fastball move with no additional stress on the arm just by changing the grip on the ball

Also keep in mind that knuckleball pitchers are just that--knuckleball pitchers---what does that tell you?

He's good w/ control thus far. As a matter of fact, I can move the catchers mit around like a clock and he can hit it consistently. Not great velocity, but he can hit the locations. I'm a big believer in having control and location and we will continue to work on that as the primary goal.

But, back to the question. Is the knuckleball a 'safe pitch' to learn and throw for a youth pitcher?

It is safe, but why waste the time? Is it a pitch he is going to develop and use over time? No. Spend the time on various FB's and CU's.

One alternative to a breaking pitch for youth pitchers could be a "knuckle curve" thrown with FB wrist and knuckle like grip and finger flick. My son used this pitch for his 11-13yrs as a safe breaking pitch. That said focus on the FB as you mentioned he does not have great velocity. This should be his primary goal and stop him from messing around with KB's. (don't know why but kids are enamored with this pitch)

Personally I do not think the k-ball is a wise choice to use in a game with young pitchers. My son played for a team where one of the pitchers threw the knuckle ball a few times per game/inning. Sometimes, and I repeat "sometimes", the knuckle ball is a good offspeed pitch at the younger age. The problem with the pitch thrown at the younger age is that it says- "whack me over the fence". It seldom gets over 40-45 mph at the 11-13 year old group. At just 40-45 mph, the pitch will not flutter and move like a true knuckle ball should when thrown above 55 mph. I have seen more knuckle balls get turned into home run balls than any other pitch at this age group. So then why throw it at all?

Slow motion replays show that when a batter strikes out on the knuckle ball at a young age it is because they were decieved by the offspeed rather than any flutter or "wow" effect. For the most part it is just a wasted effort that so many little-leaugers want to spend time learning a pitch they will probably never throw when they get older. Good knuckleballers are not known for their fastball. In fact, most notable knuckleballers never throw real hard. So I guess if you want to take the longshot of becoming a professional knuckleballer (few and far between at that) go ahead and teach it. My advice- learn how to make the fastball move and learn better deception with the change-up at the younger ages.

Very rarely will you hear someone say at a game of 11 or 12 years old this- "Wow, that was one nasty change-up". The reason being that kids do not comprehend the aspect of a true hard change-up and how it makes your fastball have devastating command.

If a pitcher at the age of 11 or 12 can pitch their fastball at or above 60 mph consistantly and then throw a change-up between 50-53 with the same exact arm motion and body follow through, they will absolutely devastate any good batter.

If he's hitting the mitt, its definitely not a true knuckleball. Wakefield doesn't know where his is going to go. At his age, take Tr's advice and teach him fb grips and maybe a change. Because some youngsters aren't quick enough for the fb, they are looking for slower pitches to hit. The fb is the old standard and the foundation for building a young pitcher.

My son asked his pitching coach about a knuckle or knuckle curve once and I remember the Coach's answer. The knuckle is thrown standing almost stright so it is different than other pitches where you bend at the waist. He said it would mess up your mechanics for other pitches so he doesn't teach it - unless you were going to throw it exclusively I guess... I know a kid on a top travel team we faced that threw straight up ( knuckle curve) - very effective. Last I heard he had to take 3 months off due to elbow pains.

I have to agree with what has been stated here, why learn a KB or waste your time when you can learn how to accomplish more with your FB, a safer pitch.

If it is such a good pitch, how come most college coaches frown upon it, and it's not considered a meaningful secondary pitch in pro ball?

My player missed one full season of fall ball in HS due to the use of the knuckleball one summer.

My son turned 12 back in February, and so I can relate to the situation a little. He is also a control pitcher. Our coach calls in the piches and locations to the catcher so, it is interesting to watch the success/opportunities for improvement scenario.

TRHit's list is basicly the one we are working on for 2008. My recommendation is to find someone who really knows about grips and finger-pressure and spend some serious time experimenting. This spring we were at Bucky Dent camp in FL again and there is a senior guy there that really knows how to get kids working on this kind of stuff at a young age. He really encouraged them to do this now because there is lots of time to develop some feel and dominance with these pitches. Perhaps one of the more significant things he gave my son was to try a 2-seam change-up which for some (my son was one) will have some significant movement. Note this is not a replacement pitch - it's an additional pitch. As well, there was very specific discussion about where the fingers and thumb (guys who throw a lot should have a calous on the thumb in his opinion) should be placed on the laces for different pitches. Then he got them experimenting with differing finger pressures.

GBMan also did a great job of differentiating between the dominance of change-of-pace over any knuckle effect. It's kind of like the kiddie curve-ball that some kids throw. Sometimes a kid will have some luck with a knuckle or a curve and they will become focussed and forget about their bread and butter pitches. My son is all "chuffed up" about scoops at 1B right now. He made a great one yesterday but, the day prior in a scrmmage, he had a routine hopper hit pretty much right to him; he centered up on it and for some reason tried to reach out and scoop it at the hop - it went right on by...

Back to pitching though. If you were to work seriously on grips (4,2,C/U), finger pressures and experimentation, I would hazard you could be busy all summer. I almost forgot... sitting on the couch watcing TV, flipping a ball in the air and without looking coming to your grips quickly - telegraph prevention.

Cheers,

D

i'm going to assume he is like every other 11 yr old. the knuckle ball can act as his change up. all he needs to do is change speeds. he'll most likely be unable to master the knuckle and really doesn't need to at 11.if he really needs to at 11 move to the outfield.

you said he hits his spots and has good control.but can't master the circle change. have him grip the ball way back in his hand,it is very difficult to throw a fast fastball with this grip,known as the LL change.

Knuckleballs.........few can throw them effectively.......and even fewer can catch them frequently........

I am not a proponent of KB's for youth pitchers.......