A poster that is experienced at least HS, we assume a certain level of experience and training. I can understand not knowing what OOO means, but it was an appropriate answer. The call was an example of an OOO, however I can see that your old group trained you incorrectly so the original trainer was the OOO not you. What was being conveyed to you was there is no rule against it and to discontinue the practice. The reason the term troll was brought up was because of the alternate definition of it. What you said is a correct definition but it also means posters that ask questions and refuse to listen to advice given but instead dig their heels in and defend their original position to a fault. That could be perceived to be as true as your perception of insults aimed at you.
If the same question had been asked by a parent or coach the answer would have been the same but worded completely different. Hopefully you will stick around and asked more questions, but understand in game management issues sometimes there are no clear answers. On Umpire-Empire there is a sticky that lists most of the acronyms used on baseball boards.
quote:Originally posted by Jeff Connell:
I'm going to throw a curve ball in here. Could it be considered faulty equipment? I know some of you will say no right off because it is not like a broken or cracked bat but the rules do you say you can not use faulty equipment and a strap that wont work is faulty. Just saying.
I don't think I would make a deal out of it but I wouldn't jump an umpire who did. It is like asking a player to tie his shoes. Legally he does not have to but how many times have we seen games stopped so that a player could do it and have even seen them made to do it.
The glove issue is not a safety problem nor will cause one so it is ignored. The tape on the bat will get worse so it should be fixed before it becomes a problem. Shoe tying is the same, it could cause an injury so we fix it. Loose shirts are improperly worn so they get fixed.
quote:Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
A poster that is experienced at least HS, we assume a certain level of experience and training. I can understand not knowing what OOO means, but it was an appropriate answer. The call was an example of an OOO, however I can see that your old group trained you incorrectly so the original trainer was the OOO not you. What was being conveyed to you was there is no rule against it and to discontinue the practice. The reason the term troll was brought up was because of the alternate definition of it. What you said is a correct definition but it also means posters that ask questions and refuse to listen to advice given but instead dig their heels in and defend their original position to a fault. That could be perceived to be as true as your perception of insults aimed at you.
If the same question had been asked by a parent or coach the answer would have been the same but worded completely different. Hopefully you will stick around and asked more questions, but understand in game management issues sometimes there are no clear answers. On Umpire-Empire there is a sticky that lists most of the acronyms used on baseball boards.
I respectfully disagree that OOO was an appropriate answer to a question posted by an obviously new member to the board, regardless of their stated experience. And OOO by itself with no explanation as to why is even more inappropriate. Had I been a known member then it would have been appropriate.
I received another private message today from a former member that also lauded me for sticking up for myself. They also stated that they unsubscribed after one day because they were "put down and accused of being a troll".
So you guys "digging your heels in" regarding how certain members on this board "contribute" is far more damaging than me "digging my heels in" about a batting glove.
And FWIW I have stated that given the information that I've read the batting glove flap would not be something that I legislated in the future. I think it's human nature when you make a ruling that you look for wording to justify your action. I clearly think I found wording to at least justify my action. But given that most umpires would not interpret the wording that way, then I will refrain from doing so in the future. I'm sorry that you perceive this as "digging my heels in". A simple acknowledgment by some of the members that they could see how the wording could be interpreted that way, but most umpires don't would have ended that part of the discussion. But they chose to "dig their heels in" and refuse to acknowledge that I was anything more than a troll or an OOO. I was more "digging my heels in" regarding the conduct of the forum members not their opinion of the batting glove.
As a long time reader of this forum, primarily for my own education and understanding as the parent of a former player, I can honestly say I have learned much from the umpires who participate here. Whether it was a situation when he was play 13U travel through the completion of a nice college career, questions and situations I posed were answered, and I have never had an issue with the attitudes of any of the umpires here.
I have been around long enough to see some of the "disputes". I have to admit, for the great majority of those, I would side with the resident members' answers.
My attitude toward using this forum has been to improve the knowledge and understanding of the rules, and application thereof, to the game I love. I am not an expert, but I have read the rulebook, (at least once, long time ago
) I look forward to responses from individuals who encounter situations and have to deal with them, as well as those who have been trained in them, in order to further my understanding. I have used that knowledge several times, as a scorekeeper and a fan, to calm irrate others because they didn't know or understand how a rule was being applied.
Usually, the truth lies in between two opposing viewpoints. I would think, or at least I did, a new poster would have done some lurking, reading of posts, gain a basic understanding of how a particular forum works, before wading in. This has been here for a while. I think it is unrealistic to think that a long established MO is going to change, just because it doesn't conform to a different set of expectations.
Umpires, I like yelling at you as much as the next fan, however, I do only try to do it when I think it is warranted. Thanks for your efforts in this forum.
I have been around long enough to see some of the "disputes". I have to admit, for the great majority of those, I would side with the resident members' answers.
My attitude toward using this forum has been to improve the knowledge and understanding of the rules, and application thereof, to the game I love. I am not an expert, but I have read the rulebook, (at least once, long time ago
) I look forward to responses from individuals who encounter situations and have to deal with them, as well as those who have been trained in them, in order to further my understanding. I have used that knowledge several times, as a scorekeeper and a fan, to calm irrate others because they didn't know or understand how a rule was being applied.Usually, the truth lies in between two opposing viewpoints. I would think, or at least I did, a new poster would have done some lurking, reading of posts, gain a basic understanding of how a particular forum works, before wading in. This has been here for a while. I think it is unrealistic to think that a long established MO is going to change, just because it doesn't conform to a different set of expectations.
Umpires, I like yelling at you as much as the next fan, however, I do only try to do it when I think it is warranted
. Thanks for your efforts in this forum.quote:Originally posted by baseball17:
As a long time reader of this forum, primarily for my own education and understanding as the parent of a former player, I can honestly say I have learned much from the umpires who participate here. Whether it was a situation when he was play 13U travel through the completion of a nice college career, questions and situations I posed were answered, and I have never had an issue with the attitudes of any of the umpires here.
I have been around long enough to see some of the "disputes". I have to admit, for the great majority of those, I would side with the resident members' answers.
My attitude toward using this forum has been to improve the knowledge and understanding of the rules, and application thereof, to the game I love. I am not an expert, but I have read the rulebook, (at least once, long time ago
Usually, the truth lies in between two opposing viewpoints. I would think, or at least I did, a new poster would have done some lurking, reading of posts, gain a basic understanding of how a particular forum works, before wading in. This has been here for a while. I think it is unrealistic to think that a long established MO is going to change, just because it doesn't conform to a different set of expectations.
Umpires, I like yelling at you as much as the next fan, however, I do only try to do it when I think it is warranted
I did not wade in as I didn't think I should have needed to worry about a forum called "Ask the Umpire". It probably would not have changed my reaction at all though. I have a particularly strong stance against a few things life. One of them is people being sarcastic or condescending towards innocuous things. I understand attacking controversial posts with sarcasm. But I see no useful purpose in responding to legitimate non controversial questions in this manner.
Secondly I have umpired for several years, but I've done so sporadically. Since I've not been consistently doing this I know that my rules knowledge and knowledge of the current points of emphasis is lacking. But I have done games with umpires with varying degrees of experience. To me getting the calls right, and keeping the games free of controversy are far more important than being well-versed on every obscure rule. Having both would of course be the best. To me next to incompetent umpires the next biggest problem is arrogant ones. Umpires that refuse to acknowledge any view other than their own, create problems in games ALL THE TIME.
I umpire in a college showcase tournament for FP softball every year in Denver. There was an umpire that I worked with last year that had a wealth of experience. He had umpired and coached at the college level. During the game I did with him he critiqued every aspect of my game. At the same time both coaches and the fans were about to lynch him for his strike zone. He was very arrogant when the coached tried to talk to him about a few of his other calls as well. It made for one of the most unenjoyable games I've ever been a part of. We were both evaluated during this game and I was given playoff games at the end of the tournament and he was given nothing. He was incensed. He bashed me to the other umpires. I remember the quote: Scott bleeping Carpenter got games and I didn't?"
The point of all this is that on this forum and on the field umpire arrogance is an issue. Ask coaches what they think.
I'm sure that all of the umpires here have great information to offer. And for those that might do well to change their tone a little so that some posters aren't pushed away, I hope this thread does that. But others coming on here and supporting the sarcastic posts of course gives them fuel for not changing at all. And that would be a shame.
quote:Originally posted by scocar:quote:Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
A poster that is experienced at least HS, we assume a certain level of experience and training. I can understand not knowing what OOO means, but it was an appropriate answer. The call was an example of an OOO, however I can see that your old group trained you incorrectly so the original trainer was the OOO not you. What was being conveyed to you was there is no rule against it and to discontinue the practice. The reason the term troll was brought up was because of the alternate definition of it. What you said is a correct definition but it also means posters that ask questions and refuse to listen to advice given but instead dig their heels in and defend their original position to a fault. That could be perceived to be as true as your perception of insults aimed at you.
If the same question had been asked by a parent or coach the answer would have been the same but worded completely different. Hopefully you will stick around and asked more questions, but understand in game management issues sometimes there are no clear answers. On Umpire-Empire there is a sticky that lists most of the acronyms used on baseball boards.
I respectfully disagree that OOO was an appropriate answer to a question posted by an obviously new member to the board, regardless of their stated experience. And OOO by itself with no explanation as to why is even more inappropriate. Had I been a known member then it would have been appropriate.
I received another private message today from a former member that also lauded me for sticking up for myself. They also stated that they unsubscribed after one day because they were "put down and accused of being a troll".
So you guys "digging your heels in" regarding how certain members on this board "contribute" is far more damaging than me "digging my heels in" about a batting glove.
And FWIW I have stated that given the information that I've read the batting glove flap would not be something that I legislated in the future. I think it's human nature when you make a ruling that you look for wording to justify your action. I clearly think I found wording to at least justify my action. But given that most umpires would not interpret the wording that way, then I will refrain from doing so in the future. I'm sorry that you perceive this as "digging my heels in". A simple acknowledgment by some of the members that they could see how the wording could be interpreted that way, but most umpires don't would have ended that part of the discussion. But they chose to "dig their heels in" and refuse to acknowledge that I was anything more than a troll or an OOO. I was more "digging my heels in" regarding the conduct of the forum members not their opinion of the batting glove.
This discussion is going nowhere. I didn't say you were digging your heels in, I said it was perceived that way by a few, but on the other hand you were given legit answers but perceived them as condesending. There may be some truth on both sides of the equation but that is done, can't be taken back from either side.
At this point I would like the discussion over.
The original answer you were given was OOO. Now knowing what that meant was a problem, but it was an exact answer and not the least condescending. He meant there is no rule against it and it is bad game management to do it. Had you known what OOO meant then it was a concise answer.