Is This How Offers Work?

I have not heard of a school asking the player when he wants to receive an offer. But based on your statement that if he was to tell the HC coach he is ready for an offer , only for you to tell HC that it is too early in the process?  Why are you going again? 

BTW , the AAU coach should have as little to do with this process as possible IMHO

My 2017 experienced this same scenario early in the process.  I think it was his second unofficial.   Shortly after that visit he received his first offer and the first school quickly offered.  Once one school offers the others seem to know almost immediately and the sense of urgency gets ramped up.    

 I still don't really understand the tactic.   But I don't think it's uncommon.   

Also- They may ask you what your timeline is and what other schools you have visited or are going to visit.   

Dont take this personally but there is too much thinking ahead about what will happen going on these days.

My suggestion is to attend the unofficial to see exactly what its all about and learn from the experience. If your son is ready to committ, thats fine, if he isnt thats ok too but keep in mind that the coach drives the bus and he will ultimately control the situation.  

bacdorslider posted:

I have not heard of a school asking the player when he wants to receive an offer. But based on your statement that if he was to tell the HC coach he is ready for an offer , only for you to tell HC that it is too early in the process?  Why are you going again? 

BTW , the AAU coach should have as little to do with this process as possible IMHO

Can you elaborate on your last sentence?  I assume AAU coach means travel coach. If HC/RC cannot talk to underclassmen and communication is not through travel coach, how does anything work? Schedules, interest, knowledge of players...

It's hard to say what is "typical;" but what is universally true is that athletic scholarship dollars for baseball are precious. Even if a program is fully-funded (and many mid-major DI's are not), that pool made up of 11.7 scholarships to be spread among 27 players tends to be meted out carefully by coaching staffs.

So, it is from that context that I see your situation, BaseballinCT. It sounds to me like you have a staff that is protective of its pool of scholarship dollars and respectful of the players they recruit; not wanting to offer unless they believe the player has a genuine interest in considering them.

Otherwise, it sounds like an invitation that comes from a sincere interest in getting to know your son and his parents better; giving all of you deeper insight into their program and school. Therefore, I'd take them up on it if what you know from your current vantage point suggests that it could be a place that your son would like to play and go to college.

...and, if the question concerning your son's preparedness to receive an offer from them comes up, your son shouldn't be afraid to be honest; telling them that it's a bit too early in the process to begin considering specific offers from them or anyone else; leaving the door open for both sides to continue to stay in touch with one another.

Remember, a college recruitment is akin to a courting relationship. If there's genuine interest from both sides, there should always be room to keep the lines of communication open; leaving the opportunity available for the coaching staff to make the offer when they have reason to believe there's a mutuality of interest and attendant receptiveness.

Best of luck to your son!

My son's first unofficial visit was to a school we knew well, close to home, etc, etc, but our first contact with them was only a couple days before the visit.  Heck, we had never seen the RC at a game that summer, and this was mid-July.  We went, met the RC, toured the campus, etc.  We had a few minutes alone with no coaches and son said "If they offer, I'm taking it"....just fell in love with something there I guess...never really asked him what it was.  RC was great, but facilities are not, program isn't great, etc, etc.  but something hit him and told him this was the place.  No offer that day, but RC came and watched him throw the next day...and offered the day after.  Son accepted it on the spot and has loved it ever since.   They always say when you find the right place "you'll know"....in my son's case, that's exactly what happened.  Good luck!

Prepster posted:

It's hard to say what is "typical;" but what is universally true is that athletic scholarship dollars for baseball are precious. Even if a program is fully-funded (and many mid-major DI's are not), that pool made up of 11.7 scholarships to be spread among 27 players tends to be meted out carefully by coaching staffs.

So, it is from that context that I see your situation, BaseballinCT. It sounds to me like you have a staff that is protective of its pool of scholarship dollars and respectful of the players they recruit; not wanting to offer unless they believe the player has a genuine interest in considering them.

Otherwise, it sounds like an invitation that comes from a sincere interest in getting to know your son and his parents better; giving all of you deeper insight into their program and school. Therefore, I'd take them up on it if what you know from your current vantage point suggests that it could be a place that your son would like to play and go to college.

...and, if the question concerning your son's preparedness to receive an offer from them comes up, your son shouldn't be afraid to be honest; telling them that it's a bit too early in the process to begin considering specific offers from them or anyone else; leaving the door open for both sides to continue to stay in touch with one another.

Remember, a college recruitment is akin to a courting relationship. If there's genuine interest from both sides, there should always be room to keep the lines of communication open; leaving the opportunity available for the coaching staff to make the offer when they have reason to believe there's a mutuality of interest and attendant receptiveness.

Best of luck to your son!

+++1

Some schools won't "offer" if you tell them you're not ready to commit. It's their particular recruiting practice. 

A few schools have told us to let them know when he's ready to commit and they'll make an offer. 

Go44dad posted:

bacdorslider posted:

I have not heard of a school asking the player when he wants to receive an offer. But based on your statement that if he was to tell the HC coach he is ready for an offer , only for you to tell HC that it is too early in the process?  Why are you going again? 

BTW , the AAU coach should have as little to do with this process as possible IMHO

Can you elaborate on your last sentence?  I assume AAU coach means travel coach. If HC/RC cannot talk to underclassmen and communication is not through travel coach, how does anything work? Schedules, interest, knowledge of players...

I agree,   son's summer coach was tremendously helpful.   he acted as liaison between schools and my son.  he's been coaching the same team for many years and has had many talented players come through.  He's well respected by the colleges and brutally honest with both them and his players- which gives him credibility.  I don't know how we would have navigated the process without him.

Had a similar situation here as well with a college.  Unofficial visit, then exchange of texts by coach and son about a weekend visit.  Then met officially with school.  Then, coach texted son, "Is this where you want to play?"  Son replied back honestly that it was on his short list, but didn't allude that it was THE school.  After that, HC slowed the texting and interest waned.  I think if the reply had been, "Yes - I want to play for you!," then son would have gotten an official offer. 

Go44dad posted:

bacdorslider posted:

I have not heard of a school asking the player when he wants to receive an offer. But based on your statement that if he was to tell the HC coach he is ready for an offer , only for you to tell HC that it is too early in the process?  Why are you going again? 

BTW , the AAU coach should have as little to do with this process as possible IMHO

Can you elaborate on your last sentence?  I assume AAU coach means travel coach. If HC/RC cannot talk to underclassmen and communication is not through travel coach, how does anything work? Schedules, interest, knowledge of players...

Sure the AAU or TC can set up a time for the player to contact the coach, can tell RC when player is scheduled to play, but other than that he has no dog in the hunt.   I very much  like and appreciate my sons TC coach, but it's no concern of his who is offering what, how much, which school player might be leaning towards. when an offer may or may not be offered....

By OP own admission AAU coach has had other players recruited by said school.  It is not uncommon for multiple players on the same travel team be recruited by the same RC.

Don't be so naive to think that this HC and RC are only talking to your AAU coach about one player.

BaseballinCT posted:

The RC of a mid-major D-1 school has been following my 2019 all spring and summer.  RC has set up an unofficial visit this week and requested that my wife and I attend so we can meet the HC and staff, ask questions, tour the facility, etc.  Son's AAU coach has a great relationship with the HC and RC.  I asked AAU coach if they will make an offer.  Based on the experience of AAU coaches former players recruited by this school, he told me to expect the HC to say that when my son is ready to receive an offer from them, they will make one. In other words, they won't make an offer until he/we tell them we want an offer.  

Don't get me wrong - if my son were to receive an offer, he would respectfully tell them it is too soon in the process.  But my question is - is this how it typically works? Seems like a "chicken/egg" thing so they don't have an offer hanging out there for a while.  Maybe they don't love him enough to straight out offer him.  If they do this, how would we even know if they're offering $ or just a roster spot?

Anyone experienced this scenario?   

This happened with my son a couple of times...

TPM posted:

Dont take this personally but there is too much thinking ahead about what will happen going on these days.

My suggestion is to attend the unofficial to see exactly what its all about and learn from the experience. If your son is ready to committ, thats fine, if he isnt thats ok too but keep in mind that the coach drives the bus and he will ultimately control the situation.  

+1.  Agree.  Your presence has been requested.   See what it is about, and evaluate if this is a good situation.  As TPM stated the coach drives the bus.

Additionally, baseball recruiting is a marketplace.  The coach deals with this everyday.  His decision to offer or not offer has implications and sometimes consequences.   When you meet with him, try your best to put yourself in his shoes to understand what he says and his actions.  This can tell you what is going on in that marketplace.  The OPs marketplace is a D1 mid-major.  For example....when my oldest son was being recruited by D1 mid-majors 7-8 year ago most of the state schools were mostly done recruiting by this time.   There were a few private D1 mid-majors schools that were late in the cycle because it was difficult to recruit with their higher tuition.  My point is this example is the remaining recruiting roster spots in this marketplace may only be comparable private schools not public schools.

My personal experience with a HC and RC coach requesting recruit AND parents meet for an unofficial visit almost always led to an offer.  I've heard coaches ask recruits about their timetable and I've heard recruits ask coaches about their timetable.  That's not an unusual request from either.   If anything I think that question further qualifies the situation, so nobody is wasting the others time.  

Good luck!

Yeah. We had schools the last two years ask straight up if he was ready to listen to an offer. Biggest mistake my son made (at my direction) was to tell schools he wouldn't be ready to think about a commitment until after Jupiter. Then, he missed the entire fall and recruiting fell WAAAYYY off. Schools that very well might have offered back then disappeared into the woodwork as rumors flew as to why he didn't throw in the fall. Should have simply said he was always prepared to consider an offer.

Yes, correct answer, always ready to entertain offer.  when my 2014 was on a visit to a C-USA school, they were ready to offer, asked him when he wanted to commit... I wanted a bigger conference... I blew that deal for him.. bird in the hand...

We are talking about a mid-major... my 2013 coach at a mid-major... it means a lot to him to know the player really wants to be at that school.... I said at that school... not on that team... 

FWIW  so many times this baseball thing is not going to work out... I know that's not what any of us want to hear.... but its true.... make sure of the school as well as the team....

So, everybody is saying...Do as much of your homework AHEAD of time as is possible! Go into these encounters/ meetings with a very GOOD idea of what YOU are looking for AND what the coach is looking for. Know something about the school (admissions, degree programs, campus life, etc), the TEAM, the Coach, the facilities, the conference, etc. 

Go in with eyes wide open. And, enjoy!

bacdorslider posted:

Yes, correct answer, always ready to entertain offer.  when my 2014 was on a visit to a C-USA school, they were ready to offer, asked him when he wanted to commit... I wanted a bigger conference... I blew that deal for him.. bird in the hand...

We are talking about a mid-major... my 2013 coach at a mid-major... it means a lot to him to know the player really wants to be at that school.... I said at that school... not on that team... 

 

 

FWIW  so many times this baseball thing is not going to work out... I know that's not what any of us want to hear.... but its true.... make sure of the school as well as the team....

 

Yeah, at least your kid fell into a school with a decent baseball program and an OK academic reputation. 

roothog66 posted:

bacdorslider posted:

Yes, correct answer, always ready to entertain offer.  when my 2014 was on a visit to a C-USA school, they were ready to offer, asked him when he wanted to commit... I wanted a bigger conference... I blew that deal for him.. bird in the hand...

We are talking about a mid-major... my 2013 coach at a mid-major... it means a lot to him to know the player really wants to be at that school.... I said at that school... not on that team... 

 

 

FWIW  so many times this baseball thing is not going to work out... I know that's not what any of us want to hear.... but its true.... make sure of the school as well as the team....

 

Yeah, at least your kid fell into a school with a decent baseball program and an OK academic reputation. 

well sort of, I was talking about 2014 , in reference to not taking the C-USA deal..  he ended up JUCO  ....

2013's coach was the D1 guy who wanted players that wanted to be at the school as much as the program.  Mid-level D1 is different than power 5. and they do recruit differently and  different things mean different things to certain coaches and programs.

But I can say that 2018 committed as a sophomore and while a lot on the board disagreed it was the move to make.  while some of the recruiting is the same, almost all deals are a little different somehow.

bacdorslider posted:

roothog66 posted:

bacdorslider posted:

Yes, correct answer, always ready to entertain offer.  when my 2014 was on a visit to a C-USA school, they were ready to offer, asked him when he wanted to commit... I wanted a bigger conference... I blew that deal for him.. bird in the hand...

We are talking about a mid-major... my 2013 coach at a mid-major... it means a lot to him to know the player really wants to be at that school.... I said at that school... not on that team... 

 

 

FWIW  so many times this baseball thing is not going to work out... I know that's not what any of us want to hear.... but its true.... make sure of the school as well as the team....

 

Yeah, at least your kid fell into a school with a decent baseball program and an OK academic reputation. 

well sort of, I was talking about 2014 , in reference to not taking the C-USA deal..  he ended up JUCO  ....

 

2013's coach was the D1 guy who wanted players that wanted to be at the school as much as the program.  Mid-level D1 is different than power 5. and they do recruit differently and  different things mean different things to certain coaches and programs.

But I can say that 2018 committed as a sophomore and while a lot on the board disagreed it was the move to make.  while some of the recruiting is the same, almost all deals are a little different somehow.

 

Gotcha. Forgot about the other son. I'm with you. Every case is different. I can say, there are regrets concerning some offers sophomore year that should have been more carefully considered. It's looking like things for my 2018 are going to work out well, but for a few months, it was questionable. 

bacdorslider posted:

...2018 committed as a sophomore and while a lot on the board disagreed it was the move to make.  while some of the recruiting is the same, almost all deals are a little different somehow.

 

All deals are definitely different...  just another story to add, keeping with the OP and your experience...

I just got off phone with son.  One of the kids he is coaching (college summer) is a Power5 recruit (headed there this fall) who committed as a P as a soph.  He has control issues, was used sparingly as a senior in HS, and three of his four summer outings have included seven straight BB's, four straight BB's and six straight BB's.  Unless there is a significant adjustment, there's gonna be some serious disappointment on both sides come fall.  Poor kid has to be feeling the pressure somethin' fierce at the moment.  I could see from a video he definitely has the body and the arm action.  

BTW - The fix looks so obvious, but what the heck has happened that it has gotten to this point?  Sorry... squirrel.

bacdorslider posted:

...2018 committed as a sophomore and while a lot on the board disagreed it was the move to make.  while some of the recruiting is the same, almost all deals are a little different somehow.

 

All deals are definitely different...  just another story to add, keeping with the OP and your experience...

I just got off phone with son.  One of the kids he is coaching (college summer) is a Power5 recruit (headed there this fall) who committed as a P as a soph.  He has control issues, was used sparingly as a senior in HS, and three of his four summer outings have included seven straight BB's, four straight BB's and six straight BB's.  Unless there is a significant adjustment, there's gonna be some serious disappointment on both sides come fall.  Poor kid has to be feeling the pressure somethin' fierce at the moment.  I could see from a video he definitely has the body and the arm action.  

BTW - The fix looks so obvious, but what the heck has happened the last few years that it has gotten to this point?  Oops, sorry... squirrel.

My 2018 got his first offer last summer after an unofficial visit. Coach told him he didn't expect him to commit, but wanted to get in early. Son has been pretty honest with people that he wants to commit by September, but he has an easy excuse for pushing it off a bit — summer HS baseball. We still have three or four weeks left in our regular season.

I guess from the original post would wonder how young your son is,   if he's 2020 or 2021 it is quite early in the proccess and I could see coaches respecting that.   not wanting to hand out offers like candy if the recruit is not ready,  like someone else said that could open flood gate of other schools as well.  

hshuler posted:

Some schools won't "offer" if you tell them you're not ready to commit. It's their particular recruiting practice. 

A few schools have told us to let them know when he's ready to commit and they'll make an offer. 

"Let me know when you are accepting offers, I'd like to throw my hat in the ring", was what I heard.  If you think about it, telling a 2019 I will give you XX% opens up a 3 year bidding war, makes sense they would hold their cards until you are ready to say yes or no.

This has nothing to do with bidding wars. If the coach thinks that the player will play a significant role in his teams success, he will give whats appropriate for that position.  

Will schools ever change an offer — obviously they might withdraw an offer — but say a school makes an offer fairly early, then player has a stand out season as a rising senior. Will schools increase it? Or if player says, "I'm down to your school and one other, and I really need another xx% to get me on your team?" does that happen?

I guess what I'm asking is how much negotiation is there once an offer is made?

Iowamom23 posted:

Will schools ever change an offer — obviously they might withdraw an offer — but say a school makes an offer fairly early, then player has a stand out season as a rising senior. Will schools increase it? Or if player says, "I'm down to your school and one other, and I really need another xx% to get me on your team?" does that happen?

I guess what I'm asking is how much negotiation is there once an offer is made?

Yes. Absolutely. 

Yes you can. Be honest with your situation, and the coach will try his best to make it happen.

Just so you know coaches dont like it when you try to play games. They know the difference between real honesty and when its not.

Iowamom,

In my limited "did stay at a Holiday Inn" experience, there is, on occasion, negotiation.  But, I think the better approach is "I'm down to a few schools and I really like (your school) but we are trying to figure out how we can afford Fav College U."  Sometimes, money can be found in places other than the athletic scholarship bucket.  I think this approach is much more in the spirit of "let's try to work this out together" instead of  "will you give me more than them".    

Iowamom23 posted:

Will schools ever change an offer — obviously they might withdraw an offer — but say a school makes an offer fairly early, then player has a stand out season as a rising senior. Will schools increase it? Or if player says, "I'm down to your school and one other, and I really need another xx% to get me on your team?" does that happen?

I guess what I'm asking is how much negotiation is there once an offer is made?

yes, schools will change the offer.     we did see offers increased during the process, but this was unsolicited, in other words, we did not ask for more.  we discussed as a family, and told our son that it was our job to worry about the financials, we wanted him to choose a school without thinking about the financial aspect.  We never actively negotiated until he knew where he wanted to go, when he did decide, I took over the discussion with the head coach.     Even then, it wasn't much of a negotiation as I felt their final offer was attractive and was aligned with our financial plan.  I also  thought I had a good handle on the "market" for an outfielder with his skill set.   

I'd be careful with the approach that you state above in pitting one school against another.  Another way to state it  may be "Coach,  I really want to come to your school.  With our financial situation we were looking for XX% (or to spend no more than $xx)  do you think this is possible?"    Or something to that effect, but if you enter that scenario- and he says yes- we can do that, be ready to commit.

I should have expanded on my answer. 

In my son's case, there were a couple of schools that had open offers on the table who knew he was still uncommitted and came to him with an increased offer late during the summer before senior year. Obviously this was an attempt on their part to get him to commit. 

He never told anyone else what offers were out there. He didn't negotiate offers with schools. 

When he was ready to sit down and make a decision we discussed the pros and cons and made that choice based on what he had been presented. 

TPM posted:

This has nothing to do with bidding wars. If the coach thinks that the player will play a significant role in his teams success, he will give whats appropriate for that position.  

 

everything below this comment seems to negate this comment.  If they really want a kid they will up their offer to make their school the more attractive choice...and if another school has the same approach isn't that a bidding war?

CaCO3Girl posted:

TPM posted:

This has nothing to do with bidding wars. If the coach thinks that the player will play a significant role in his teams success, he will give whats appropriate for that position.  

 

everything below this comment seems to negate this comment.  If they really want a kid they will up their offer to make their school the more attractive choice...and if another school has the same approach isn't that a bidding war?

In our experience and that of others I know of, bidding war is non existent. Unless you are a stud, the offer usually is not open to negotiation.  

cabbagedad posted:

Iowamom,

In my limited "did stay at a Holiday Inn" experience, there is, on occasion, negotiation.  But, I think the better approach is "I'm down to a few schools and I really like (your school) but we are trying to figure out how we can afford Fav College U."  Sometimes, money can be found in places other than the athletic scholarship bucket.  I think this approach is much more in the spirit of "let's try to work this out together" instead of  "will you give me more than them".    

I probably phrased my post poorly. This is more the approach I was wondering about. To be clear, I like my son a lot and I probably wouldn't get into a bidding war for him. I have no expectations that colleges would.

But I know academically that financial aid packages have been improved to help a kid who needed a little more money make the dream school possible. Just wondered if that happened on the athletic side as well.

Based on your sons info on the application, some coaches can figure out your financial situation.  

But again this is where honesty comes into the committment.

Our sons own personal situation, if he attended UF he would only have to pay for one semester of meals. His tuition cost nothing because of bright futures, we didn't even need to use prepay. Basically it was a free education.

Clemson's original offer changed, to make up for out of state tuition and make it more affordable. That was the game changer for sons commitment.  Son was considered a top prospect at that time, not once did anyone ask us what was offered.  And we never asked for anything more from anyone than what was offered.  More than likely other coaches knew. 

Just an FYI, most coaches that see players play actually know what they are worth, depending on position. Trying to squeak out more than you were offered at another program, might get a response to "take what's offered or go to that program".

Cabbagedad gave you good advice.

Never ask if someone will give your son more than the other guy. If you feel more would be appropriate, ask if they could find additional dollars to fund the balance, dont ever tell them coach at ABC U offered more because, again, you wont like the answer.

JMO

Ryan never asked for more money.  His offers were good, so we didn't think it was appropriate to do so.  I guess that is thanks to this site.  Since I have been coming her, I had a pretty good idea of what was a reasonable offer, and I told Ryan that we would make it work.  He just needed to find the right place for him.  For us, him going to a JC for 2 years helped our financial situation immensely.  We only contributed to his spending money, everything else was paid for.  Now he's going to the Big 10, we will have to pitch in more, but he's in the right place too.

rynoattack posted:

Ryan never asked for more money.  His offers were good, so we didn't think it was appropriate to do so.  I guess that is thanks to this site.  Since I have been coming her, I had a pretty good idea of what was a reasonable offer, and I told Ryan that we would make it work.  He just needed to find the right place for him.  For us, him going to a JC for 2 years helped our financial situation immensely.  We only contributed to his spending money, everything else was paid for.  Now he's going to the Big 10, we will have to pitch in more, but he's in the right place too.

Where is your son transferring to? Was he actively recruited at his JUCO? 

Elijah posted:

rynoattack posted:

Ryan never asked for more money.  His offers were good, so we didn't think it was appropriate to do so.  I guess that is thanks to this site.  Since I have been coming her, I had a pretty good idea of what was a reasonable offer, and I told Ryan that we would make it work.  He just needed to find the right place for him.  For us, him going to a JC for 2 years helped our financial situation immensely.  We only contributed to his spending money, everything else was paid for.  Now he's going to the Big 10, we will have to pitch in more, but he's in the right place too.

Where is your son transferring to? Was he actively recruited at his JUCO? 

He is transferring to Purdue, and he has already started summer school there to get a jump on things.  He can't work with the coaches, but he is working out hard so that he can hit the ground running once he can. 

As far as actively recruited, yes and no.  They knew about  my son since he was 14, but the recruiting probably didn't start until fall of his Jr. Year.  The coach came to him and said, "If you don't go D-1, will you commit to us."  Ryan said yes, because he really liked the PC, and although the team didn't have the success, he did, and he loved it there.