It is such a small thing...

quote:

Originally posted by YesReally:
But I am already annoyed by the statistics reported by the newspaper for the High School games. It seems like you should understand basbeball statistics before you are allowed to report game stats to the newspaper!!!

Anyone alse noticed this issue?

Has nothing to do with statistics, all to do with knowing and applying Official Scoring Rules.

Ordinary Effort is a key term, they also pay these folks big bucks to spend hours trying to do this.

quote:

Originally posted by YesReally:
But I am already annoyed by the statistics reported by the newspaper for the High School games. It seems like you should understand basbeball statistics before you are allowed to report game stats to the newspaper!!!

Anyone alse noticed this issue?

Don't know about your paper, but most game scores & stats reported in our local paper, are called in by the coaches - usually the home team. The exception is if the reporter actually attended the game and kept his own "stats" or scorebook. Early in the season it's rare for the local staff sports reporter to come out to games. As the season progresses, he covers what I call, the "game of the week" - usually a game that has potential playoff implications or there is a "star" player that may be in line for a D1-D2 scholarship or a chance at the pros.

The year I kept score for the high school I submitted the box score and the two paragraph story on the game. The newspaper would still get names and stats wrong.

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Originally posted by FoxDad:
Don't know about your paper, but most game scores & stats reported in our local paper, are called in by the coaches - usually the home team. The exception is if the reporter actually attended the game and kept his own "stats" or scorebook. Early in the season it's rare for the local staff sports reporter to come out to games. As the season progresses, he covers what I call, the "game of the week" - usually a game that has potential playoff implications or there is a "star" player that may be in line for a D1-D2 scholarship or a chance at the pros.

In our paper, even if a reporter attended and scored the game meticulously, if someone doesn’t call or e-mail in the game “stats’, its not going to show up in the section with all the other scores. There’s all kinds of mixed feelings about how its done, but from what I can tell, the paper’s doing everything it can. They have no way to verify who’s calling in the game, so they just take the info they get, and print it.

And unless the paper happens to be who collects the stats and makes them available on-line, what gets printed is really meaningless for anything other than some folks getting to see player’s names in print. FI, here in the greater Sacramento area, when I’m the home team, I call in the line score, batteries, and significant hitting achievements to the paper. But they’re only printed one day, and that’s the extent of it.

However, most teams in this area post their stats to MaxPreps, and that’s where they’re tallied and made available to anyone on-line. In fact, some leagues like ours have the local umpires assn post all the final scores to MaxPreps, but never to the paper. Other areas of the country post to some other central location, some owned and operated by a local paper, and some by some other entity, but I’d bet buttons to barnacles that they all operate much the same way.

I’m not sure, but it sounds as though YesReally has some other axe to grind. I don’t know what it is, but it sounds like what stats get posted in the paper after a game don’t match what happened in the game, or what he thinks happened in the game. But chances are, looking at the overall team stats will show something different than what was in the paper.

Our games are generally over about 6-7PM, and that gives whoever calls in the game, 2 and a half hours to get it in under the deadline. If it’s a coach doin’ it, by the time the team meeting is over, the field gets cleaned upm and he makes sure everything’s locked up and taken care of, he’s lucky to get much of a chance to do anything other than glance as the scorebook to get some numbers. But when he gets some time the next day to actually look at the book and put in the individual numbers, very often he’ll find a few mistakes and correct them.

So, even though I see mistakes in the paper all the time, I don’t worry about it at all, because those stats aren’t official or final team stats.

this is why college and pro scouts could care less about hs stats

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"THE KIDS TODAY DO NOT HAVE THEIR STATS REPORTED CORRECTLY ENOUGH !!!!!"

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quote:

Originally posted by YesReally:
But I am already annoyed by the statistics reported by the newspaper for the High School games. It seems like you should understand basbeball statistics before you are allowed to report game stats to the newspaper!!!

Anyone alse noticed this issue?

Yea but it's no big deal since there are no paid reporters at most games and the purpose is to print the scores and the summaries of these games for the locals. It would be nice to get it right and I suppose as a parent, it would be a little annoying if your kid wasn't mentioned as a key contributor or reported the wrong player and or stats but it isn't the end of the world though. As mentioned in a previous post, when the reporters are covering a conference tournament, state playoff or following a player, they usually get it right.

quote:

it sounds as though YesReally has some other axe to grind.

I have no other axe to grind and if you look at the title of the thread I have already said it it a small thing.

I was just curious about other peoples' experiences. I do not have any ill will toward the paper or really anyone. It just seems like the person reporting the stats (in our case I believe it is generally the score keeper or assistant coach for the home team) should know the basic rules. (What constitutes an at bat or the difference between a double and a singe with an overthrow). I agree it really does not matter what is written in the paper in the long run - just seems too bad that it is not correct.

Thanks for sharing - it appears that no one else finds this annoying.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
this is why college and pro scouts could care less about hs stats

agreed......because oftentimes the game reported in the paper bears no resemblence to the actual game I umpired.....

errors shown as hits, wins and saves incorrectly awarded....

But, if you sign the book, aren't they official?

A favorite pass time of mine is to find a game where each side will report a box score to two differen web sites.

The over under for H/E differences is about 3 per game.

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Thanks for sharing - it appears that no one else finds this annoying. Big Grin

You are correct, it is annoying. But its roughly the same everywhere so I think the advice is, don't spend much time being annoyed by it.

trust me--your son knows what he did in each and every game

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
this is why college and pro scouts could care less about hs stats

agreed......because oftentimes the game reported in the paper bears no resemblence to the actual game I umpired.....

errors shown as hits, wins and saves incorrectly awarded....

Ugh the same could be said about the umps in a game. the cALLS bear no resemblance to the game I attended. yada yada...

When you trivialize stats and or keepers, you downgrade the game and consolidate even more power to the coaches.

Lack of stats, lead to dissing stats, for the most part to justified the position needed at the time for lack of stats.

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Originally posted by showme:
When you trivialize stats and or keepers, you downgrade the game and consolidate even more power to the coaches.

Ooooooooh no. Powerful, evil coaches......

quote:

Originally posted by showme:

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
this is why college and pro scouts could care less about hs stats

agreed......because oftentimes the game reported in the paper bears no resemblence to the actual game I umpired.....

errors shown as hits, wins and saves incorrectly awarded....

Ugh the same could be said about the umps in a game. the cALLS bear no resemblance to the game I attended. yada yada...

When you trivialize stats and or keepers, you downgrade the game and consolidate even more power to the coaches.

Lack of stats, lead to dissing stats, for the most part to justified the position needed at the time for lack of stats, and in some case for having them.

quote:

Originally posted by ironhorse:

quote:

Originally posted by showme:
When you trivialize stats and or keepers, you downgrade the game and consolidate even more power to the coaches.

Ooooooooh no. Powerful, evil coaches......

checks and balances...is all.

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this is why college and pro scouts could care less about hs stats

sometimes figures lie and liars figue.

quote:

Originally posted by YesReally:
I have no other axe to grind and if you look at the title of the thread I have already said it it a small thing.

I was just curious about other peoples' experiences. I do not have any ill will toward the paper or really anyone. It just seems like the person reporting the stats (in our case I believe it is generally the score keeper or assistant coach for the home team) should know the basic rules. (What constitutes an at bat or the difference between a double and a singe with an overthrow). I agree it really does not matter what is written in the paper in the long run - just seems too bad that it is not correct.

Thanks for sharing - it appears that no one else finds this annoying.

I’m not taking sides here because I don’t know you or the person who keeps score for your team, but I can say without hesitation that the chances of having a fully competent scorer at the HS level isn’t nearly as high as a lot of folks think. The reason isn’t that its so hard to do, because obviously, if a 5 YO can keep score correctly, it isn’t brain surgery. The problem is, in order to keep score correctly, not only does the scorer have to know the scoring rules, s/he has to pay close attention as well, and there’s where the problems begin.

I’ve been studying rule books and scoring games for well over 50 years now, and I can say its unbelievably easy to get distracted and miss something important. Bend over to pick up a dropped pencil when the pitch is thrown, and you miss whether it was a strike or a ball, or if it was a called, fouled, or missed strike. If you notice the runner on 1st moving before the pitch and watch to see the play, its pretty easy to miss whether the pitch was a ball or strike, or if the catcher missed it or the pitcher threw it in the dirt.

What it boils down to, is I do my very best work when I’m wearing my headset to cut out as much noise as possible, and when there’s no one near me to carry on a conversation with. But to be honest, that’s not the best way to enjoy being at the game, so there’s a dichotomy that has to be resolved, and the resolution is to compromise between the two things, so the score is kept reasonably well, while the scorer is able to have a nice time as well.

There’s an easy way for you to improve things. Volunteer to do the scoring and be the team statistician! If your coach is anything like ours, he’ll jump at the chance to get someone he can count on. Our coach spent 16 years at another school and 7 at ours, and admits he’s been spoiled. At his 1st school, he had a scorer who was at every home game for each of those 16 years, and at our school, I’m the only person alive who’s never missed a game, home or away. It doesn’t seem like much, but it’s a heck of a load the coach can certainly do without.

I never heard anyone who knew the game ask my kids their batting average. They always asked, "How are you swinging the bat right now?"

quote:

There’s an easy way for you to improve things. Volunteer to do the scoring and be the team statistician!

pretty much sums it up.

It's just funny when those projectable ones end up with three hits a season along with those 1.8's with 18 e's and what... no asst on the bases.

perfect no, more info, no doubt.

Don't expect the incompetence to end once they reach college either. This past week at games I attended I saw the following scoring:

Fly balls moving runners from second to third are twice ruled sacrifice flies.

Ball drops in right field for apparent base hit but right fielder grabs ball on one bounce and forces runner who was on first at second base, making the play a fielder's choice. Scored as base hit!

Ball goes right through third baseman's legs is scored base hit.

Winning run on second scores walkoff winning run on routine basehit to right. Batter runs hard all the way to second and is given a double instead of single. The runner on second was fastest guy in game and easily scores on single.

First baseman drops easy foul catch--no error charged.

Player has two RBI's at key moments in game-two RBI's in game recap but one RBI in official statistics. Think forgotten RBI was on hit batsman with bases loaded.

Batter hits into doubleplay-forgotten on official statistics.

Over the last three years in college I've seen it over and over especially on what is ruled a base hit at home compared to on the road.

quote:

Originally posted by Three Bagger:
Don't expect the incompetence to end once they reach college either. This past week at games I attended I saw the following scoring:

…

Over the last three years in college I've seen it over and over especially on what is ruled a base hit at home compared to on the road.

I think its kinda funny that a lot of folks somehow believe SKs at the college level are as good as they are in the ML. When my son got to college, I scored his team’s home games, and more than half of the away games as well. For our home games, I seldom saw an opponent’s SK who wasn’t one of the players in the dugout, and I assure you, college players in general, don’t know a lot more than HS players do about scoring, and HS players don’t know a whole lot.

For our away games, the most common “official” scorer was still in the dugout with a uniform on, but there were some teams that did have someone in the booth, especially if they had an announcer. So, all in all, in college the scoring is a bit better, but it certainly can’t be classified as being high quality very often.

I know it really twists the panties of some, but I just don’t see any way the quality of the scoring isn’t placed squarely at the feet of the head coach.

what isthe pay rate of a qualified SK ?

and have you paid attention to how they score MLB games?\ Home always get hits... it's the Official Scorer's discretion, and definition of ordinary effort.

Baseball is a game of failures that include umps, coaches, players and Official Scorer's, it's part of the game.

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Originally posted by TRhit:
what isthe pay rate of a qualified SK ?

They don’t get paid, which is why the stats you see in HS aren’t nearly as good as they could be. But then again, even if the numbers were perfect, there are a lot of coaches who don’t have the ability to analyze them and come to meaningful conclusions, so it really doesn’t make a lot of difference how good they are, or how much anyone gets paid.

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Originally posted by TRhit:
what isthe pay rate of a qualified SK ?

Hot Dog & a Coke

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Originally posted by luv baseball:
Hot Dog & a Coke

Well, my pay is actually 2 hot dogs and a Coke, delivered to the scorer’s table.

Ya gets what ya pays for! ROFL

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Originally posted by TRhit:
what is the pay rate of a qualified SK ?

It varies, I get anywhere from nothing to zero. I sometimes get a parking place reserved. I never accept any food.

This year, they have a movie theater quality popcorn maker and charge .50 for a full bag. I've been giving them at least $2, but helping them with the receipe, which still needs work.

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Originally posted by JMoff:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
what isthe pay rate of a qualified SK ?

It varies, I've heard anywhere from nothing to zero.

True enough. I will admit to pulling out an old book now and again and it's like a time machine...I can remember certain parts of games like I am still there, how I felt win or lose, the memory of watching my boys play and the teams I helped coach.

So I'd say the pay can be priceless ....sometimes.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:
It varies, I get anywhere from nothing to zero. I sometimes get a parking place reserved. I never accept any food.

This year, they have a movie theater quality popcorn maker and charge .50 for a full bag. I've been giving them at least $2, but helping them with the receipe, which still needs work.

Just out of curiosity, is your son on the team and how far do you have to drive? The reason I ask is, when I was scoring for my boy’s team, I used to pay 2 bucks for a 50 cent candy bar or soft drink too, and the 20 miles one way when gas was less than $2 wasn’t any kind of imposition at all. But now, the trip is 25 miles one way to the closest field, gas prices are well over $3, and I never get home before 6:30 after the quickest of games. I always make sure I don’t eat or drink prior to the last inning because when ya get up in these age latitudes, it can cause problems, so the hot dogs I get are the extra ones that have been wrapped up in tin foil for about an hour. You know the ones I’m talking about. They’re the ones they give away so they don’t have to toss them. So really other than the pleasure I get, which I’ll admit is substantial, the cold coke is the only thing I accept that has any value for about 6 hours spent on every game.