It's more than just talent alone

I don’t know where that quote came from, but it nothing more than a myth.

That's just beautiful, Stats. 

Younggundad comes on and posts a timely, meaningful and very important message for the young players and parents who come here for information and guidance for doing things the right way and you choose to dismiss/diminish the message by ripping the quote. 

You are so missing the point.   And, I do embrace differences of opinion and debate here but can't stand total lack of consideration and respect toward other posters.

Furthermore, the quote is DEFINITELY not a myth... Most of us have seen it play out a thousand times.   Yes, there are exceptions - that's why the words include "can USUALLY tell.."

Thank you for your post,  Younggundad!  I hope the message reaches many in spite of...

Any hschooler who can throw 95mph will definitely end up at a major d1, regardless of his attitude outside the game. Case in point Johnny Manziel.   No one knew of his attitude and problems off the field, right?    

I just dealt with this in a big way LAST NIGHT. 

We are in the middle of squad splits and I had to assign several "tweeners" to JV over the last two days... 

Rewind a week or so ago.  I am at our HS basketball game sitting up near the top and several of our baseball players are sitting together near the floor, rooting for their school team.  They were into it, spirited, united and I loved seeing that.  There were about three rows of players and in the fourth row, there was a single player with his back turned from the court facing several girls in the fifth row.  He was definitely working on impressing the ladies.  Never did engage with his teammates or turn to support the basketball team.  This made me take note of some other behavior as well.  Just a quick snapshot but I definitely was left with an impression. 

Fast forward back to last night...  This player, as judged independently and unanimously by five coaches, belonged and would benefit more on JV at the present time.  I laid everything out to him and offered that he would have several opportunities to work out with V at times.  I gave him an abundance of tangible reasons behind the decision.  He claimed to understand the decision.  He went home and I got a call from his Dad claiming his son was confused by what I had told him.  Dad was using a screen to try to set me up, sway me.  I've been around the block a few times.  I laid out all of the tangible information to Dad as well.  He wasn't listening.  He had an agenda to get his son on varsity and was in tunnel-vision mode.  I got a call shortly after from the player, stating that he was quitting because, basically, playing with JV was beneath him.  He was using a lot of "dad-inspired" language trying to explain himself in a way that wasn't saying it was beneath him but he kept slipping up and exposing himself.  Without getting into too much detail, let's just say his reasons were selfish and superficial, definitely without concern to team or program.  This was exactly the impression that was left at the basketball game, in that five minute snapshot, away from the field.

This also speaks to what Younggundad is trying to convey from a parent standpoint as well.  What message do you think the parent/s was sending to the player in this instance?  

My fellow Jarhead, while it may seem that would be the case it is not always the case. I remember when my son was at a JUCO and our starting pitcher was a 6'4 lefty. If there was one, there was at least 30 scouts and D1 coaches there combined. It was a ZOO! I was sitting there watching the game and minding my own business. Quite captivated at the turnout this kid was pitching in front of. I just happened to be sitting next to a reputable D1 coach and just started some small talk with him. I was hoping to glean some things from him as to what they are looking for....things like that for my own personal knowledge. He began talking about a players attitude and not just on the field. They talk to all the coaches, talk to that players teammates, observe, learn, and many times more than he could recall he passed on pitchers and other players because of a bad attitude. He said a bad attitude transcends into many, many more areas such as an uncoachable player, bad teammate, has no concept of "team", discipline problems on the field and in the classroom, et al. This lefty from what I had been told was going D1 at the end of the season and I was quite impressed to just observe this process. Long story short...the lefty didn't get signed and ended up quitting the team. 

Will a coach or program take a kid regardless of these traits and attributes? Of course. It happens each season. But, it won't happen often. It only takes a couple of times and the coach begins to learn from his mistakes. Manziel was probably a stellar student-athlete at Texas A&M. We don't know because I can't recall any reports coming out while in school that he was a troublemaker, etc. Plus, I believe I heard that his Head Coach also had a rule in place that no player under either Freshman or Sophomore status was allowed to speak to the media. So we weren't able to see or hear any kind of "attitude" from him during interviews. What you see now in him is AFTER college and a Pro. Maybe Cleveland knew of his propensities for the booze and/or girls, I don't know. But I'm betting they won't put up with his antics much longer. 

Cabbagedad, thanks for the encouraging words but, I just couldn't help but laugh when I see comments from folks that make such ignorant comments. They can believe what they want. But as you said, I'm only posting this thread to give some parents who don't know it all like him some other things to ponder in helping prepare their son for baseball from high school to college. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink! lol. 

Here's one more thing to consider for anyone new to this site wondering what else it takes to be a "recruitable" high school baseball player. I'm certain he'll have something wise to add to this. In fact, I'm betting on it. lol. But oh well, such is life.

My .02 cents...  I've always stressed those traits to my son and started long before I knew playing baseball in college was even a dream for him.  Because no matter what happens with baseball, I still expect him to be a good and productive member of society. 

But your point is valid. Some parents worry more about the baseball skills then raising a man. 

cabbagedad posted:

I just dealt with this in a big way LAST NIGHT. 

We are in the middle of squad splits and I had to assign several "tweeners" to JV over the last two days... 

Rewind a week or so ago.  I am at our HS basketball game sitting up near the top and several of our baseball players are sitting together near the floor, rooting for their school team.  They were into it, spirited, united and I loved seeing that.  There were about three rows of players and in the fourth row, there was a single player with his back turned from the court facing several girls in the fifth row.  He was definitely working on impressing the ladies.  Never did engage with his teammates or turn to support the basketball team.  This made me take note of some other behavior as well.  Just a quick snapshot but I definitely was left with an impression. 

Fast forward back to last night...  This player, as judged independently and unanimously by five coaches, belonged and would benefit more on JV at the present time.  I laid everything out to him and offered that he would have several opportunities to work out with V at times.  I gave him an abundance of tangible reasons behind the decision.  He claimed to understand the decision.  He went home and I got a call from his Dad claiming his son was confused by what I had told him.  Dad was using a screen to try to set me up, sway me.  I've been around the block a few times.  I laid out all of the tangible information to Dad as well.  He wasn't listening.  He had an agenda to get his son on varsity and was in tunnel-vision mode.  I got a call shortly after from the player, stating that he was quitting because, basically, playing with JV was beneath him.  He was using a lot of "dad-inspired" language trying to explain himself in a way that wasn't saying it was beneath him but he kept slipping up and exposing himself.  Without getting into too much detail, let's just say his reasons were selfish and superficial, definitely without concern to team or program.  This was exactly the impression that was left at the basketball game, in that five minute snapshot, away from the field.

This also speaks to what Younggundad is trying to convey from a parent standpoint as well.  What message do you think the parent/s was sending to the player in this instance?  

After being cut the player and parent aren't seeing the opportunity. The kid is on the radar screen. He nearly made varsity. Coaches watch these kinds of players to see if they got the message or maybe they made a mistake. But players who get cut and their parents don't see the big and long term picture. They are single minded and only see the present.

When my son entered high school I was coaching a 16u team of 15yos. It started as a 13u team. I had two kids from our high school on the team. There was a third back in 13u. The high school coach asked me an important (to him) question. Why did I not have a talented kid on the team at 16u who was on the team at 13u? I told the coach I don't want to be involved in helping him with his roster. I suggested he knew the reason (from knowing the kid and knowing how disciplined and team oriented my son was).

This kid didn't have one friend on the travel team. The rest of the team asked me not to invite him back for 14u. He would criticize teammates behind their backs. He didn't realize everyone disliked him and compared notes. He was the same way in high school until he was cut for attitude. 

The talent was there. They kid could fly. He had a strong arm. He was strong. But he was a horrible teammate. It became a distraction. I wanted kids on the bench taking about the game, not what Billy just said about Bobby. The high school coach felt the same way.

Young Gun ... Great post. You stated the norm. One contrary response is a person a scout told me he does more damage than good with his posts on this site. The other is an anecdotal exception.

There's always someone who will take a chance on the stud bad boy. But his options become limited. Why limit options? From a signability standpoint the cost could be many dollars.

YOUNGGUNDAD, Semper Fidelis.

I did not mean I disagreed with you. On the contrary I completely agree with your post. I think for the most part we humans do the right thing usually,  but not always. My own son is an great dugout teammate. I make sure  of that everyday.

2ndMarDiv, I honestly didn't take your earlier post as a disagreement my friend. Not at all. For those parents who wander over here onto this site looking for answers sometimes they stumble across threads such as this that they never would have thought of otherwise. There are many on this site with tremendous wisdom who have "been there and done that" and seen all the the things that work and what doesn't. I know that when I first signed on here my son was just entering travel ball and I couldn't thank those who espoused their knowledge and wisdom on here enough. With sons that have Dads who are former Marines I would have suspected your son also would easily have been a disciplined and well mannered young man! 

Let me share one more bit of wisdom about this site that most either don't realize or do and at times don't think and perhaps say things they shouldn't. Why do I mention this? My son PERSONALLY has gotten quite a few rare opportunities and invitations from some men on this site over the years, i.e. Pre-draft National Showcase, an opportunity to play on a team in a prestigious collegiate summer league, etc. There are some folks on this site who can and do make dreams come true for players. I mention this because our (parents) behavior, speech, and opinions are viewed as everyone's is on here but, don't hurt your son's chances in a year or 3 years down the road. Don't believe me? There are a couple of old timers on this thread who can vouch for this. Ask them. This site is MORE than just a place to come and learn about the myriad of ways to make teams and advance. There are a plethora of golden opportunities here to be taken if you keep your eyes and ears open. I won't even go into the number of friends I have made over the years here. Too many to count.

YGD

IDK... I think the higher up the ladder you go the more talent outweighs all else. Look at Harper. Almost universally he's been labeled as a punk for a while. Some of his antics in the past seem to confirm this. I saw him throw down his helmet after being thrown out at 1st and it bounced out of the picture. What did his manager say after the game? "I wouldn't change anything about him".

Talent trumps all else really seems to be the standard in football/basketball. Seems every day it's someone new in the news.

Great topic.

A few rambling thoughts. As an addition to my partial athletic scholarship (many, many years ago), I was offered a job working in the athletic department 10 hours per week. My school was a high academic D1 with a world-class athletic program.  In my job, I interacted with many different coaches of many different sports and watched each juggle the recruiting board up and down each year. From this experience, the one thing that was impressed upon me most was, academics and character not only matter, but they are critical for most scholarship offers. Sure, the total athletic stud was given less academic criticism, but for everyone else, it was of critical importance that a kid could handle the academic load. Every coach talked about their desire to not have to deal with academic problems for their players. It's the very rare few athletes that are so good that coaches just look the other way. The rest fall into a very large pool where other things make the difference - grades, attitude, leadership, hustle, you name it. Until a recent death of my own college coach, I spoke to him often, and I don't things have changed too much.

The very close #2 thing I learned was about the attitude most coaches have about parental involvement in the recruiting process. I don't see this discussed much on this site, but I saw 100's of times when coaches would receive calls or letters from parents and immediately discard that student-athlete from consideration. For sure, this was more overlooked with true top-of-the-top athletes, but I cannot stress how important it is for the kids to initiate, follow up and lead their own relationship with coaches. The last thing these coaches want is to get a student-athlete into their program and then have to deal with his/her parents all the time. It's really their worst nightmare. 

Talent is still number one no doubt.  But think about it they have what 11.7 scholarships?   You miss on a 75% lets say thats a big deal.  I would have no problem believing schools would avoid a problem kid.  Pro scouts of course will not but it may drop him in the draft.  

I believe that raising a man is a lot more important than raising an athlete.

However, in the business of sports, the exceptionally gifted athlete will always get quite a few second chances. Even in college.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

IDK... I think the higher up the ladder you go the more talent outweighs all else. Look at Harper. Almost universally he's been labeled as a punk for a while. Some of his antics in the past seem to confirm this. I saw him throw down his helmet after being thrown out at 1st and it bounced out of the picture. What did his manager say after the game? "I wouldn't change anything about him".

Talent trumps all else really seems to be the standard in football/basketball. Seems every day it's someone new in the news.

The sons of the posters on this site are anywhere on the ladder. Very few players are in the cateogory of "He's an ass. But he's too good to pass on."

My son wasn't a Top 300 recruit. I told him 301 to 1000 are arbitrarily interchangeable. How a player in this span carries himself can be the difference between major conference or not. I asked him what he was going to do to be the player program's want. One thing he had going for him was excessive foot speed. Also coach's son's tend to be more disciplined than other players. You would be surprised how much difference it makes when a player in a showcase screws up but carries himself well.

More importantly, if my son ever acted like he was better than any of his high school teammates he would have had some 'splaining to do. I expected my son to lead by example, not arrogance. He never acted like he was better than anyone. He acted like a leader. He was also developing as a young man.

Scouts and college coaches love kids that show good work ethic, hustle and those that seem to be leaders in the dug out. They watch and study that.

However, they also love guys who have a chip on their shoulder as well.

Its really about finding the right person for your clubs chemistry as well.

YGD, thank you for the insight.  You're absolutely correct about this site. I've learned much by reading other's post since joining.  Many learned and wise people here.

Totally agree TPM, talented guys will always get 2nd and 3rd chances. Folks who say "Not on my watch" are either being dishonest or aren't paid to win. The stud with the chip and moral compass is the holy grail and while most parents are raising their players as quality young men, some are singularly focused on baseball the acknowledgement/accolades and lose sight of the results they're currently cultivating when "life after baseball" happens.

My son's spring and freshman teams last year had a kid who only catches. So he caught, and was generally regarded as our best catcher at the beginning of the season. But he was lazy at practice and in games, whiny when he didn't bat well and his dad stood down by the dugout and analyzed every at bat and play between innings. 

My son runs on and off the field, is first out of the dugout to congratulate or console his teammates and says coach, if I need to play left bench to give my team the best shot of winning, I'll play left bench. And we never talk to him during games for any reason, or to his coaches at all except to say hi and thanks for helping our son. 

He became the starting catcher. The other kid (and parents) are still trying to figure out why the coaches are "playing favorites."

Attitude and character do matter at all levels. 

Ahhhh, now it's turned into healthy discussion and debate.

Agree there is more rope given to more talent in many circumstances, although not always. 

Regarding Manziel - I am a Browns fan and loved watching Manziel in college in his first big year but when the "arrogant, spoiled" personality started to show, I was no longer a fan.  Draft day, I HATED the pick.  Yes, he got 2nd, 3rd chances, etc., but with each issue, his credibility took a hit.  Now, the consensus is that he has the potential talent but there are only one or two teams, max, that are willing to deal with the character issues.  So, it has taken a while, but in the end, it will be the character issues and not the lack of talent that will hurt him the most.  What is worse is that the rest of his life, the more important things, may suffer even more than his football career. 

The message of the OP is that parents teach and monitor good character first, before athletic skills and other interests.  Had that been more the case with Manziel, he would be far better off in every way.

I saw the ESPN spot on Steeler RB Le'Veon Bell.  He screwed up last year with an incident with pot.  If you watch the interview with his mom and the subsequent interview with the player, you are left convinced that this was a mistake that a young man made and is not the person he is and is not the person his mother raised.  I'll bet that we see stronger character behavior from him going forward.  I would love to see a trade- Manziel (and other appropriate compensation) for Bell in a heartbeat. 

I think the only debate is whether you read the OP literally or as a euphemism for hard work/right way.

If anyone thinks you don't throw as hard if your hat is on backward should try it with a radar gun.  Some of the old school baseball conformity sucks the fun out of the game for the players.  

I almost hit like on Stats post, almost, but didn't, because you know, it's Stats.

You only get one time to make a good FIRST impression. So whether any one takes my original post as an euphemism or as literal, I personally think that is up to your son. Not you as a parent. How you raised him to be a good, responsible, mature, and decent young man, how to hustle and give it your all, being respectful, encouraging, et al will eventually come out in his actions. At practice and in games. So dad or mom, whether you agree with what what I posted or not, is not really the question here. You have nothing to worry about if your son does one or all those things correctly now do you? However, if your son is a stick in the mud with a bad attitude and a college coach comes to watch him perform one night just sit back and observe him as to what that coach is seeing. How's that interview going for him? All I'm simply doing is giving tidbits of advice to share with your son on some "things" that make good impressions each and every day. To coaches, fans, and even the competition. These are the peripherals of things that can be done mainly before a game but sometimes during the game. Sure a college coach wants to see a fiery competitor on the field with a chip on his shoulder. That's a given.

YGD

The only two kids I saw get cut in my son's 4 years of D2 baseball were cut for attitude, not talent.  Both kids were good, but were not "team players".  Saw other kids leave for various reasons, but these are the only two guys I know of that coach actually cut from the team.  Both were contributors during the season, but were cut at the end of the season because of their attitude and lack of being a team player...

I didn't hear of anyone getting cut. I heard of players having scholarships taken away and/or told making the roster or getting on the field the following year was unlikely. Talk about writing on the wall!

cabbagedad posted:

That's just beautiful, Stats. 

Younggundad comes on and posts a timely, meaningful and very important message for the young players and parents who come here for information and guidance for doing things the right way and you choose to dismiss/diminish the message by ripping the quote. 

You are so missing the point.   And, I do embrace differences of opinion and debate here but can't stand total lack of consideration and respect toward other posters.

Furthermore, the quote is DEFINITELY not a myth... Most of us have seen it play out a thousand times.   Yes, there are exceptions - that's why the words include "can USUALLY tell.."

Thank you for your post,  Younggundad!  I hope the message reaches many in spite of...

I didn’t “rip the quote”, I spoke what has been proven over and over to be the truth. If scouts and recruiters could really tell who was a ballplayer by simply watching them do anything but play the game, why on earth would they bother spending any resource doing anything else? This goes back to scouts watching players get off the bus and supposedly being able to evaluate them. It’s poppycock!

Now is there something to be said for not acting like an a$$ when you think no one is watching? You bet! But why not find some other way to get that thought across than to perpetuate a myth?

It's important to recoginize hot air when you see/feel it. I recommend players follow Young Gun's advice. Only a jaw dropping, top shelf stud may get away with being a jerk off. For everyone else it will limit options and cost you bonus money.  For the top shelf stud it may limit his options and cost him bonus money. There are plenty of players teams wish they could turn back the clock and make a different decision based on the character red flags they ignored.

cabbagedad posted:

Regarding Manziel - I am a Browns fan and loved watching Manziel in college in his first big year but when the "arrogant, spoiled" personality started to show, I was no longer a fan.  Draft day, I HATED the pick.    I would love to see a trade- Manziel (and other appropriate compensation) for Bell in a heartbeat. 

Cabbage: Growing up in Erie, PA I continue to follow the Browns (was actually the first NFL game I attended, Browns vs Saints and "previous year's" Heisman trophy winner, George Rodgers) If your Manziel-Bell deal doesn't work..here's a story where a baseball player was traded for...BATS!

http://www.todayifoundout.com/...yer-traded-for-bats/

Perhaps the Browns can get some tees or footballs for Johnny..or a logo for the helmets

YoungGunDad posted:

You only get one time to make a good FIRST impression. So whether any one takes my original post as an euphemism or as literal, I personally think that is up to your son. Not you as a parent. How you raised him to be a good, responsible, mature, and decent young man, how to hustle and give it your all, being respectful, encouraging, et al will eventually come out in his actions. At practice and in games. So dad or mom, whether you agree with what what I posted or not, is not really the question here. You have nothing to worry about if your son does one or all those things correctly now do you? However, if your son is a stick in the mud with a bad attitude and a college coach comes to watch him perform one night just sit back and observe him as to what that coach is seeing. How's that interview going for him? All I'm simply doing is giving tidbits of advice to share with your son on some "things" that make good impressions each and every day. To coaches, fans, and even the competition. These are the peripherals of things that can be done mainly before a game but sometimes during the game. Sure a college coach wants to see a fiery competitor on the field with a chip on his shoulder. That's a given.

YGD

YGD,

For me this is a trait I want my son to have regardless of whether it's getting a baseball scholarship or a job at the local grocery store.

While it's important to let your children know what is acceptable and what is not, I blame much of this on poor attitudes of many parents.  Our children are a reflection of us.

A good example is of the parents of Johnny football. His dad said he had a drinking problem in HS but he kept giving him things with the promise that he wouldn't drink anymore. The parents created the monster.

First impressions can often be misleading. That's why the very best of the best coaches watch players for a while, and most of the time its not even them watching. 

I did understand your point of the post, very important for parents to also remember that their first impressions are important as well.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

There is something here that I see and wonder if people take into account or if I'm missing something.

There is a BIG difference between HS and collage/pro ball. HS coaches at most programs get a lot more leeway in wins/losses than the later do. If your home/collage fund/retirement depends on your winning percentage then your choices on who sits/plays may be more based on talent. Minus the whole dad thing.

This may be true to an extent. But, there is a MUCH smaller gap in talent at the college/pro level. IOW, the difference in the talent level of the #1 and #2 catcher at the pro/college level might not be that much. You may not lose a lot of productivity benching the #1 guy. Whereas in HS, there may be a HUGE loss to the team if you bench the #1 guy. Attitude can make a very big difference when the talent level is pretty close. 

I think that Johnny Football may be suffering from a case of "affluenza." And he seems to be in the right neighborhood for it at the moment!  

Interesting topic.  It doesn't really matter how critical it is, the original message is a good one for young players to hear.

Personally I always looked at talent first, attitude second.  I believe people can change their attitude easier than their talent.  This is where coaching and leadership take charge of the situation.  It's not impossible to change the way young people think.  Truth is something has caused the way they think to begin with.  So why can't something change the way they think in the future.

Sometimes your attempt fails, but it's very rewarding when everything clicks.  But back to the original message, it sure would be beneficial for young people to follow whether they play baseball or not. 

RJM posted:

It's important to recoginize hot air when you see/feel it. I recommend players follow Young Gun's advice. Only a jaw dropping, top shelf stud may get away with being a jerk off. For everyone else it will limit options and cost you bonus money.  For the top shelf stud it may limit his options and cost him bonus money. There are plenty of players teams wish they could turn back the clock and make a different decision based on the character red flags they ignored.

I feel this is pretty accurate. if you are a true 5 tool player this whole thread is a myth but to the normal really good players who want an opportunity this spot on. As an employer I can tell you I look for pretty much the exact same attributes when hiring staff.

That is the beauty of baseball and sports in general, the same lessons you should learn in the game will carry you forward in your career and across your life!

I do a lot of interviewing. Probably 70% is teenagers.  First impressions mean a lot. Do I give credibility to talent, sure when it is obvious. But I may (definitely) have missed a few potentially talented employees because of how they presented themselves. But when a person come to interview, I am not asking them to be in a tie and suit or a dress. I am asking them to care enough about why they are there to look presentable.

I think for coaches it is the same (or at least the ones I have talked too), It is not that the player have to have his cap on exactly right, or shirt tucked in just so. Just that he cares enough about what he is representing. The more the talent maybe the more the leeway.

But I have been hiring and interviewing for a long time. I used to get star struck on the talent. A chef that can do this or that, a server that has X years of experience, etc. Not so much anymore. I look at the person. Will they fit in my team? Can they adapt? Because every work situation is different. I, also, take into account talent. It matters. If no one can cook in my operation, then my customers will be either angry or absent going forward. So I put up with a little more "attitude" from my talent. But never at the detriment of the whole operation. I have made many many many mistakes on just that area over the years. It is amazing how one or two team members can sour the whole operations.

I think coaches are looking for the same thing. Part of that is the initial how you represent yourself. Whether it be attitude, dress or whatever. It is a snapshot for an interview for a coach

For those players who have aspirations to have someone give them money (professional or as a college scholarship), my feeling is while they are playing, they are on a job interview. For those that do not have those aspirations, no worries. 

As always JMO

Old School, should have just read your post before typing. You said it way better and more succinctly

Wow.  This discussion really took off!  My two cents...  I actually agree with something stats said (its been a while), I do get tired of the 'I can tell when they come off the bus mentality'.  And he is correct it is poppcock.  Sort of.  Problem is when we have these conversations we don't know what is in the other persons head.  If you can tel cause the kid comes off with his shirt untucked and his hat backwards then that is stupid and unreasonable.  But maybe we are talking about a kid who comes off the bus cussing everyone out and threatening teammates - different story.  And of course there are a thousand points inbetween these two examples.  But the point made earlier about the small differences in talent is a valid one.  If you are in that massive group of pitchers from say 86-88 mph no good program will take you if you are an attitude problem.  And to me this is the spirit of the OP.  So yes if you take it literally word for word I find it silly.  But if you look at the spirit of what it is saying I agree 100%.

While no one has ever offered a scholarship or drafted a player by simply watching him get off the bus, often there is interest created by seeing a certain look.  Just means you want to see them perform.

Had no one known who Jason Heyward was in high school, scouts would have picked him as someone to watch as soon as he walked off the bus or entered the park. At times you see someone that just looks the part.  By itself it means nothing other than that player is not going to be overlooked.

I don't think anyone believes final decisions are made by watching someone get off a bus. But sometimes the one that looks the part ends up being the standout. So sometimes you were right when you picked that one walking off the bus

PGStaff posted:

While no one has ever offered a scholarship or drafted a player by simply watching him get off the bus, often there is interest created by seeing a certain look.  Just means you want to see them perform.

Had no one known who Jason Heyward was in high school, scouts would have picked him as someone to watch as soon as he walked off the bus or entered the park. At times you see someone that just looks the part.  By itself it means nothing other than that player is not going to be overlooked.

I don't think anyone believes final decisions are made by watching someone get off a bus. But sometimes the one that looks the part ends up being the standout. So sometimes you were right when you picked that one walking off the bus

and if Jason Heywood had his hat on backwards and baggy shorts on it wouldn't have mattered!! the point of the conversation was the link stated that if you got off the bus wrong it could hurt you and a few us stated that it really just depends!

PG you are always consistent on this topic that it is all about talent. I find some of the others who don't acknowledge that super talented guys get treated different and are not help to the same standard at all kind of amusing.

A Baseballism poster with the following statement prominently hangs in the training facility for my son's club team.

"The name on the front of the jersey represents who you play for, the name on the back of the jersey represents who raised you. Do them both justice."

Maybe a bit trite, but a good message. Based on other threads I've read on here about this subject, I've had some good conversations with my son about expectations for his attitude and how he conducts himself both on and off the field. Who knows if every coach or scout takes attitude into consideration when recruiting players, but why risk it by behaving poorly?