Jack Armstrong

I didn't real the full article, but I disagree that just because a player dominates, he must be accused. (ex. if a car is going 100 mph, u dnt have to look at the tires.)

Interesting that he says he "knew" it was going on but he never saw any player inject themselves nor can he name names---- any player could say the same thing

quote:

Originally posted by Catch43:
I didn't real the full article, but I disagree that just because a player dominates, he must be accused. (ex. if a car is going 100 mph, u dnt have to look at the tires.)

I agree with you, Catch43. I don't like the steroid mess, but Armstrong, ("at 6-5, 240 pounds, ... 42, has the body of a bouncer" which might raise an eyebrow in itself) offers nothing more than a feeling and suspicion from what I read. The article states, "Not that he saw the needles" and "He doesn't see himself as a whistle-blower, only a justice-seeker". Nothing concrete. I don't see any substance in the article.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Interesting that he says he "knew" it was going on but he never saw any player inject themselves nor can he name names---- any player could say the same thing

I thought his assertions about things made him look foolish. He can't name anyone but he knows the percentage of user's and when the usage patterns changed overtime He only seems to suspect hitters as well. He wants things both ways. He wants the game cleaned up for the benefit of his son which is admirable but at the same time does not want to burn any bridges that might in turn hurt his son.

I don't think you have to have seen needles in action to know what went on. People do talk, and being there for many years, he no doubt heard many admissions from people doing steroids themselves, as well as stories about others.

I don't know why we need to jump on his case, since we all now know that it went on. Though I do agree that pitchers are just as suspect as hitters.

I certainly share his sentiment that I'm glad that baseball is at least trying to clean all this up before it affects the next generation.

Midlo Dad

If he was doing a "tell all" as he says why can't he name names---perhaps because all he knows is hearsay ?-- you can say the same thing can't you ? and it is all hearsay and supposition

I truly am getting tired of the guys just looking to get their name in the press and still say nothing to aid the cause

quote:

and it is all hearsay and supposition

Um, do we need to paste in the list of flunked tests and 15-50 game suspensions for you? Would u please wake up?

He spoke to the investigating commission. Maybe he feels like that was the proper place to talk, not in the media.

Also, there is danger in speaking openly, since an offended player can sue for defamation. Even if the statements made are true, the threat of such a suit is enough to make most people act with caution. I suspect, if Armstrong spoke to the Mitchell commission, that he has had some legal advice along the way.

dad04

I can tell you that I am more awake at my age than you have or ever will be---the man , Armstrong, makes statements and can't back them up--if you are going to "roll" on people then you name them---even you can do the same as he does and says nothing--

By the way hearsay does not convict people in my world--maybe in yours but not mine--we have all heard stories but they are just that "stories"

quote:

I can tell you that I am more awake at my age than you have or ever will be---

and ya got that going for you, which is nice. I need a nap. Wake me when the Mitchell Report is published in 2 days. ZZZZZZZZzzzzz

TR, we've never met, but in my mind's eye, you're the kind of guy who eats Rolaids like candy.

Do you ever stop churning inside?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
dad04

I can tell you that I am more awake at my age than you have or ever will be---the man , Armstrong, makes statements and can't back them up--if you are going to "roll" on people then you name them---even you can do the same as he does and says nothing--

By the way hearsay does not convict people in my world--maybe in yours but not mine--we have all heard stories but they are just that "stories"

When it comes to this issue, you've been asleep at the wheel for the last couple of years.

Armstrong made his statements to the Mitchell Commission about what he knew. He didn't publicly say names, because he could have legal action brought against him.

When you're a player sharing the same locker room day in and day out, you know who radically reshapes their body in the offseason. Players talk, and they know who's doing something naughty without having to see the needle sticking out of their butt. They also know who's doing "low maintainance doses"...doing just enough to keep up strength, without having the outlandish muscle gains of a guy like Bonds.

When Canseco came out about steroids, and named names, you blasted him for being unreliable.

Looks like Canseco was right.

Now, Armstrong tells what he knows to the Mitchell Commission..and you blast him, too.

The report supposedly contains 60-80 names. I'd venture a guess that those names are a drop in the bucket compared to the numbers they could add up to.

Looks like you're wrong, again. Go back to sleep.

Midlo

Goes to show how much you know---never took a Rolaids in my life and my blood pressure is fantastic---sorry to disapppoint you


2seamer

I think you need to wake up and see the reality of life not the things you want to see--- did you see the interview Segui gave the other day when he admitted HGH use--he stated he knew who the players where but would not "out" them because they had talked to him in confidence and it was between them--
It would be interesting that when the report come sout it names names and all the names are now retired like Armstrong---great way for MLB to save face and still appear to be doing something


As for your believing Canseco it shows you ability to judge character---this is a guy who will turn his mom and grandma in if it helps him make a buck and sell a book--he also tried to run down his then wife in the middle of a Miami street---also notice he seems to pop up in the media only when he has a book coming out---coincidence or planning ??? You tell me about your hero

For someone who regularly maintains that he is calm and assured, TR, I was just wondering why (yet again) the overreaction-personal comments?

Doesn't do much for discussion on the ol' hsbbweb.

Orlando

I have learned a long time ago when someone calls me out I respond--

BTW sitting where you sit in Florida how can tell if I am not calm and assured---trust your assumption is incorrect

I am also happy to see that you are judge and jury on this site with regard to my posts--"doesn't do much for discussion on the ol' hsbbweb"---that can be said for many posts including yours at times--it all depends on ones outlook.


Also why are you calling me out for so called personal comments when I responded to personal comments from a poster I wasnt even in discussion with--

Please.......I'm trying to get some shut eye. I need to rest up for the Mitchell Report tomorrow.

DAD


I truly hope you will not be disppointed when you see it

"BTW sitting where you sit in Florida how can tell if I am not calm and assured---trust your assumption is incorrect"

Please read before reacting. I said "For someone who regularly maintains that he is calm and assured". I did not say I felt you were or were not calm and/or assured. I said you regularly maintain it. YOUR assumption is to take it negatively.

Then, you say:

"I am also happy to see that you are judge and jury on this site with regard to my posts--"doesn't do much for discussion on the ol' hsbbweb"---that can be said for many posts including yours at times--it all depends on ones outlook."

If you're happy then I'm happy. But if expressing an opinion, including about an attitude a poster might frequently assume, is being "judge and jury", then we might as well rename it the Jack Webb site. Here's me thinking that's what we do here --- express opinions.


"Also why are you calling me out for so called personal comments when I responded to personal comments from a poster I wasnt even in discussion with"


Actually, if you read my post, I didn't "call you out" (your term, not mine) for "so called" personal comments, but for "the overreaction-personal comments". I believe that "As for your believing Canseco it shows you ability to judge character" and "I can tell you that I am more awake at my age than you have or ever will be" are actual personal comments and not "so-called".

And that those comments are overreaction when compared to the posts: "Canseco was right" doesn't actually mean more than Canseco was right about the Juice Use. And "wake up" doesn't deserve the oh, let's say, "judge and jury" (again, your term) response of "I can tell you that I am more awake at my age than you have or ever will be".

Overreactions.

Please, websters, excuse this little sidetrack of mine. I am quite supportive of lively debate, but I'm way tired of the useless sniping.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
DAD


I truly hope you will not be disppointed when you see it

The Mitchell Report is, what it is, and a step in the correct direction. I don't care who the cheaters are, who they played for, or currently play for. Mets Red Sox, Yankees, whatever. Actually, the more Yankees, the better.

They are all lucky I'm not in charge of handing out suspensions. They would all have a birthday or three before they wore spikes again in MLB, if ever. To paraphase the 101st Airborne Division, ban 'em all and let God sort 'em out. I'm serious. Nobody knows who is currently cheating until a legitimate testing program is used. They are all guilty until proven otherwise.

Unless they get very serious about the topic, very fast, they should simply name Vince McMahon the next Commissioner. Instead of playoffs they can have the October Smackdown. I believe I am in the vast majority of opinion on the matter.

I'm sure you regard any Mitchell Report accusers as "Rats" and "Snitches" who all need new stitches....hey that rhymes.

quote:

The Mitchell Report is, what it is, and a step in the correct direction.

Dad04, I hope you are right!
There does seem to be considerable media concern that the report will be a hammer on the players and certain other folks like club house guys who distributed.
If that is true and accountability with the Clubs/owners/GM's/the union and the like isn't included, then it seems like it will be of limited use. For it to be of value, it seems to me as though it needs to include the 1998 season in considerable detail, at least from an historical point. If it does, I don't see how it can be complete if it includes McGuire and Sosa and others but fails to address those who reaped the extreme financial rewards and/or were responsible for the guidelines/policies and procedures in place that were/are so transparent.

Dad

Let us see what the report has to say ---I am very dubious--- they don't want to ruin a 6 Billion dollar cow

TR, won't it all be "hearsay" anyway?

infielddad

let us see what the report says---I still say it will have names of players retired and from before the testing rules were in place-- also the Mets clubhouse guy has not been "officially" around since 1996-- what does that tell you

It tells me you are spinning the pre-game for the Mets.

DAd04


Heard one report this morning that there are no Mets named in the report--- be interesting to see if it is true

I'm looking forward to the New York paper's headlines tomorrow if there are Yankees on the list and no Red Sox given Mitchell's relationship with the Sox.

I'm expecting the stars named to be retired stars and some current middle of the road players to be sacrificed. Although Clemens and Sosa's names have surfaced a few months ago. I'd call them in betweeners. They're future HOF'ers who hasn't been voted on yet.

I'd rather see baseball say whatever happened in the past happened and the player's association agree to testing of all kinds at determined intervals of the season in the future.

Several reports indicate most of the whole thing is focused on the Mets due to the Mets clubby Rademske getting busted, pleading guilty and rolling over on players. Who cares though? I do not, especially if they go back to business as usual with their lame azz testing program.

RJM is correct. MLB should be able to run better than the WWE. Baseball and the Players Union should strive to have the best possible testing program. They shouldn't listen to their apologists who cling to the fact that Babe Ruth was never tested for anything other than STD's.