Big week for juco coaches.
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Son's team played against those two 12 times over the last two years. Great programs and great coaches. Both will do well.
Yeah, this hits home. For one, IWCC is 10 minutes across the river from Omaha. My son has lots of buddies who are there or heading there this fall. Always scary to play for a coach who didn't recruit you.
That is very good to see.
I don’t know what the percentage of D1 teams that Iowa Western would have been able to beat over recent years would be, but it’s gotta be a lot of them!
The players were told that Western Kentucky contacted him for the first time on Saturday, that it was an offer too good to pass up and that everything happened in a 24-hour period. Said they "aggressively pursued" him. That may be the case, but Pawlowski resigned a month ago, so I am not sure he was their first choice. Or 2nd or 3rd. Not saying it was a bad hire. But given his 20-year mega success at IWCC, I have to think D1's have previously come calling plenty of times, so I am wondering why leave now?
The Mitch Thompson hire at Baylor had to be one of the most popular I can ever remember. Just go on Twitter and look at the comments and endorsements. It’s unreal. Mitch took over a pretty good program at McLennan something like 17 years ago after being an Asst Coach at Baylor and being passed up when Steve Smith retired. All he did was turn McLennan into one of the very best JuCo programs in America, culminating with a National Championship in 2021 - with one of the best JuCo teams I have ever seen. Going back to Baylor is a homecoming for Mitch and is being appropriately treated as such. Mitch is a players coach, is immensely popular, and is a tremendous recruiter. I talked to him for 30 minutes in the stands last summer in Grand Junction and he was wondering if he would ever get a D1 HC opportunity. And now he has it. Mitch is one of the good guys and I couldn’t be happier for him. Baylor got this one right!
JuCo coaches are under-rated. If you are a player that isn’t fully developed, you are likely to get more individual coaching, teaching, and instruction if you pick the RIGHT JuCo than you are anywhere else you could go.
@adbono posted:Mitch took over a pretty good program at McLennan something like 17 years ago after being an Asst Coach at Baylor and being passed up when Steve Smith retired.
Pretty sure 2013 was Mitch's first year - He didn't return my call until Trev had committed to Hill, and then proceeded to tell me why his first year program was going to be way better. Truth hurts, but it all worked out... Since I'm tossing out photos today, here's one of Coach Thompson giving it to a blue! Good Luck Coach, I guess I'll have to cut Baylor Baseball some slack now too!
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@JucoDad posted:Pretty sure 2013 was Mitch's first year - He didn't return my call until Trev had committed to Hill, and then proceeded to tell me why his first year program was going to be way better. Truth hurts, but it all worked out... Since I'm tossing out photos today, here's one of Coach Thompson giving it to a blue! Good Luck Coach, I guess I'll have to cut Baylor Baseball some slack now too!
You are correct on the year. I mistyped but was too lazy to go back and fix it.
@adbono posted:JuCo coaches are under-rated. If you are a player that isn’t fully developed, you are likely to get more individual coaching, teaching, and instruction if you pick the RIGHT JuCo than you are anywhere else you could go.
D1 baseball programs that can afford it are now following football programs by hiring player developmental guys. 1 for hitting, 1 for pitching. This gives the assistants more time to spend on the road recruiting.
I think that this is going to help bring in more true freshman to programs instead of relying on the portal. This should be a priority instead of throwing millions of dollar to players who even aren't on campus yet.
JMO
@TPM posted:D1 baseball programs that can afford it are now following football programs by hiring player developmental guys. 1 for hitting, 1 for pitching. This gives the assistants more time to spend on the road recruiting.
I think that this is going to help bring in more true freshman to programs instead of relying on the portal. This should be a priority instead of throwing millions of dollar to players who even aren't on campus yet.
JMO
Bringing on additional staff to develop young players would be a logical solution to the problem. And I applaud any program that will do that.
I just don’t see it happening except in rare occasions. Most schools aren’t going to increase their operational expenses if they don’t have to. Especially when they can reduce travel expenses by recruiting from video of proven players.
Adbono
question, why have the qualified JC Coaches not entered the rank of Division one? Mitch Assisted in our Area Code tryouts at Baylor. He was a true Professional.
He appreciated my need for “time management”
Bob
@adbono posted:Bringing on additional staff to develop young players would be a logical solution to the problem. And I applaud any program that will do that.
I just don’t see it happening except in rare occasions. Most schools aren’t going to increase their operational expenses if they don’t have to. Especially when they can reduce travel expenses by recruiting from video of proven players.
I guess you never noticed Texas A&M has one, Chuck Box. His title is Director of Player and Program Development.
@TPM posted:I guess you never noticed Texas A&M has one, Chuck Box. His title is Director of Player and Program Development.
Yes Barb, I’m aware that Chuck Box is on staff at Texas A&M. And I’m also aware of his title. In fact I have met him and talked with him about his role. I have met the entire coaching staff at A&M and talked with all of them about a lot of things. You want to take a guess what the A&M staff is doing this week? They are conducting exit interviews that have been described to me as a bloodbath. Many young players are getting their walking papers. They aren’t being retained to be developed. And they will be replaced by more experienced players from the transfer portal and from the JuCo ranks. This is what is happening. And it isn’t isolated to a few schools. I was on the field with coaches from more than 50 different schools at the Area Code tryouts last week. They were all saying the same thing. Transfer portal and JuCo transfers. Top D1 schools don’t want to develop freshmen. Because they don’t have to. I know this because countless coaches have told me this. You can continue to make your petty comments if that’s what you need to do. It has no effect on me. It just makes you look foolish.
@TPM posted:@JucoDad how is your son! Now that college baseball is over back to MLB.
He's doing well at the at the moment after a rough patch. He's blessed for the opportunity to learn and progress at this level - but it's hard on the old man...
I've said this before, most all who've played dream about reaching the MLB - and I couldn't be more proud of the work Trev does to compete and the man he has become through the process. However, having a catch with your kid, being part of the youth, HS, juco and college baseball community of parents and players is the parental sweet spot. The joy is in living in the moment while on the journey and not reaching any specific point.
@TPM posted:D1 baseball programs that can afford it are now following football programs by hiring player developmental guys. 1 for hitting, 1 for pitching. This gives the assistants more time to spend on the road recruiting.
I think that this is going to help bring in more true freshman to programs instead of relying on the portal. This should be a priority instead of throwing millions of dollar to players who even aren't on campus yet.
JMO
IMHO, unless the NCAA changes Transfer eligibility (reverts back), freedom to move without penalty is the new normal.
The Team Roster Turnover Dashboard can help you quickly understand where this may be trending
https://collegebaseballinsight...nover-insights-free/
Note, 2022 season is a telling sign of where player movement is trending, combined with transfer portal, NLI and change in rules, some outcomes are predictable.
Note, understanding a school's roster management strategy will pivot about 1 or 2 times within the next 3 to 5 years.
The growth of the JUCO Pipelines will be another factor
https://keepplayingbaseball.or...f-the-juco-pipeline/
There were 26 JUCO Alumni on the 2 CWS Finalist
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@adbono posted:Bringing on additional staff to develop young players would be a logical solution to the problem. And I applaud any program that will do that.
I just don’t see it happening except in rare occasions. Most schools aren’t going to increase their operational expenses if they don’t have to. Especially when they can reduce travel expenses by recruiting from video of proven players.
I don't agree with your generalization.
Where do you see it not happening? In Texas, Oklahoma?
I am not being petty.
I was showing you that Player Development guys exist. They get paid, not volunteer, to assist in working with players while the assistants are on the road recuiting. Maybe in some cases they are grad students.
Are you saying that recruiters and assistants are getting paid to stay home and recruit from the portal?
@TPM posted:I don't agree with your generalization.
Where do you see it not happening? In Texas, Oklahoma?
I am not being petty.
I was showing you that Player Development guys exist. They get paid, not volunteer, to assist in working with players while the assistants are on the road recuiting. Maybe in some cases they are grad students.
Are you saying that recruiters and assistants are getting paid to stay home and recruit from the portal?
I am speaking in generalizations. There is no other way to talk about this. Because of NIL and the transfer portal D1 recruiting is not being done the way it has been in the past. It is radically unfair to HS seniors.
I am saying that I’m seeing fewer big school D1 coaches at recruiting events this summer than ever before. The ones that do show up are there only to be seen. They aren’t taking notes. They aren’t looking at players. They are on their phone. Events like Area Code tryouts and high profile area tournaments that draw teams from all over the SW region. There is less interest in HS players among top D1 schools than I have ever seen. I am at these events and this is what I have seen.
What I don’t understand is why they are signing them when they don’t intend to keep them and develop them. The programs that have coaches with the title of Player Development don’t seem to be using those coaches for that purpose. The days of signing freshmen and bringing them along are almost gone for now. Not very many programs still do much of that. Especially with position players. If a kid can’t help a program win from the minute he steps on campus he is shown the door more often than not. Most kids aren’t given a chance to be a good teammate and wait their turn. Most are forced to transfer by the school that initially recruited them. Why spend 2 years working with a kid hoping he develops into a player that can help you win if you can go snag an already developed player out of the transfer portal? That is the argument that so many programs are subscribing to. And I’m saying it’s the most prevalent at the top 50 D1 programs. I know this because coaches on staff at many of these programs have told me so during events that I have attended with them.
As a matter of fact I’m attending another recruiting event today for uncommitted HS players. All the coaches will talk and I will hear the same thing. I very involved in recruiting and player evaluation. I’m often around other guys that do the same and we talk. This isn’t something I’m reading on Twitter or a rumors I hear from friends. This is grass roots information that I’m passing on for the benefit of the board. And I have to be careful how I do it. I can’t name names and I have to speak in generalities. Your need to challenge things I say (that many other people also see) doesn’t make things any easier or any better.
@adbono posted:I am speaking in generalizations. There is no other way to talk about this. Because of NIL and the transfer portal D1 recruiting is not being done the way it has been in the past. It is radically unfair to HS seniors.
I am saying that I’m seeing fewer big school D1 coaches at recruiting events this summer than ever before. The ones that do show up are there only to be seen. They aren’t taking notes. They aren’t looking at players. They are on their phone. Events like Area Code tryouts and high profile area tournaments that draw teams from all over the SW region. There is less interest in HS players among top D1 schools than I have ever seen. I am at these events and this is what I have seen.
What I don’t understand is why they are signing them when they don’t intend to keep them and develop them. The programs that have coaches with the title of Player Development don’t seem to be using those coaches for that purpose. The days of signing freshmen and bringing them along are almost gone for now. Not very many programs still do much of that. Especially with position players. If a kid can’t help a program win from the minute he steps on campus he is shown the door more often than not. Most kids aren’t given a chance to be a good teammate and wait their turn. Most are forced to transfer by the school that initially recruited them. Why spend 2 years working with a kid hoping he develops into a player that can help you win if you can go snag an already developed player out of the transfer portal? That is the argument that so many programs are subscribing to. And I’m saying it’s the most prevalent at the top 50 D1 programs. I know this because coaches on staff at many of these programs have told me so during events that I have attended with them.
As a matter of fact I’m attending another recruiting event today for uncommitted HS players. All the coaches will talk and I will hear the same thing. I very involved in recruiting and player evaluation. I’m often around other guys that do the same and we talk. This isn’t something I’m reading on Twitter or a rumors I hear from friends. This is grass roots information that I’m passing on for the benefit of the board. And I have to be careful how I do it. I can’t name names and I have to speak in generalities. Your need to challenge things I say (that many other people also see) doesn’t make things any easier or any better.
I'm going to take the naive approach. Bring Tuition $$$ to the school, at least for the fall semester.
There is nothing to lose because there is minimal capital outlay.
I'm assuming signing means verbal commitment.
@adbono posted:I am speaking in generalizations. There is no other way to talk about this. Because of NIL and the transfer portal D1 recruiting is not being done the way it has been in the past. It is radically unfair to HS seniors.
I am saying that I’m seeing fewer big school D1 coaches at recruiting events this summer than ever before. The ones that do show up are there only to be seen. They aren’t taking notes. They aren’t looking at players. They are on their phone. Events like Area Code tryouts and high profile area tournaments that draw teams from all over the SW region. There is less interest in HS players among top D1 schools than I have ever seen. I am at these events and this is what I have seen.
What I don’t understand is why they are signing them when they don’t intend to keep them and develop them. The programs that have coaches with the title of Player Development don’t seem to be using those coaches for that purpose. The days of signing freshmen and bringing them along are almost gone for now. Not very many programs still do much of that. Especially with position players. If a kid can’t help a program win from the minute he steps on campus he is shown the door more often than not. Most kids aren’t given a chance to be a good teammate and wait their turn. Most are forced to transfer by the school that initially recruited them. Why spend 2 years working with a kid hoping he develops into a player that can help you win if you can go snag an already developed player out of the transfer portal? That is the argument that so many programs are subscribing to. And I’m saying it’s the most prevalent at the top 50 D1 programs. I know this because coaches on staff at many of these programs have told me so during events that I have attended with them.
As a matter of fact I’m attending another recruiting event today for uncommitted HS players. All the coaches will talk and I will hear the same thing. I very involved in recruiting and player evaluation. I’m often around other guys that do the same and we talk. This isn’t something I’m reading on Twitter or a rumors I hear from friends. This is grass roots information that I’m passing on for the benefit of the board. And I have to be careful how I do it. I can’t name names and I have to speak in generalities. Your need to challenge things I say (that many other people also see) doesn’t make things any easier or any better.
Also starting to hear the stories of incoming freshman being told "you're more than welcome to still come to "state U", but if you look at the numbers, it might be better if.............. and we can get you to this school for a year and we'll follow you".
We heard of this happening in 2015 during our oldest's summer before going to school, but it was more due to the player's talent falling off the cliff, or personal issues. That is not is not the case now.
@russinfortworth posted:Also starting to hear the stories of incoming freshman being told "you're more than welcome to still come to "state U", but if you look at the numbers, it might be better if.............. and we can get you to this school for a year and we'll follow you".
We heard of this happening in 2015 during our oldest's summer before going to school, but it was more due to the player's talent falling off the cliff, or personal issues. That is not is not the case now.
100% correct
All, let's get beyond the misunderstanding. I believe we are all talking the same thing, just with a little nuance.
We've all predicted these events would happen. Impact would be national, regional and local.'
SO EVERYBODY HAS A BEEN 85% RIGHT (lol) I can't give us a 90%
Note this group is tame vs what is on twitter.
I got my popcorn with a heavy douse of butter observing what is going on (Slap My Head) in the twitter sphere.
All is good though
The success of Schlossnagle with the portal in one year will only make this worse. Really makes me sick. Might as well be another pro league. And if you can get drafted out of hs, go!
@adbono posted:I am speaking in generalizations. There is no other way to talk about this. Because of NIL and the transfer portal D1 recruiting is not being done the way it has been in the past. It is radically unfair to HS seniors.
I am saying that I’m seeing fewer big school D1 coaches at recruiting events this summer than ever before. The ones that do show up are there only to be seen. They aren’t taking notes. They aren’t looking at players. They are on their phone. Events like Area Code tryouts and high profile area tournaments that draw teams from all over the SW region. There is less interest in HS players among top D1 schools than I have ever seen. I am at these events and this is what I have seen.
What I don’t understand is why they are signing them when they don’t intend to keep them and develop them. The programs that have coaches with the title of Player Development don’t seem to be using those coaches for that purpose. The days of signing freshmen and bringing them along are almost gone for now.
So as the parent of a 2025 this is the part I am having the most difficulty wrapping my brain around.
Seems like the top schools want to have their cake and eat it too. They have "commitments" from kids that haven't even started high school, but will dump them at the drop of a hat for proven college talent when they show up on campus.
Yet somehow all of my son's freshmen high school teammates are in GA this week along with 300+ teams spending thousands of dollars trying to secure an offer that has never had less security.
This system is jacked up.
@DaddyBaller posted:So as the parent of a 2025 this is the part I am having the most difficulty wrapping my brain around.
Seems like the top schools want to have their cake and eat it too. They have "commitments" from kids that haven't even started high school, but will dump them at the drop of a hat for proven college talent when they show up on campus.
Yet somehow all of my son's freshmen high school teammates are in GA this week along with 300+ teams spending thousands of dollars trying to secure an offer that has never had less security.
This system is jacked up.
Accurate. I become more and more disillusioned, the more I see.
@DaddyBaller posted:So as the parent of a 2025 this is the part I am having the most difficulty wrapping my brain around.
Seems like the top schools want to have their cake and eat it too. They have "commitments" from kids that haven't even started high school, but will dump them at the drop of a hat for proven college talent when they show up on campus.
Yet somehow all of my son's freshmen high school teammates are in GA this week along with 300+ teams spending thousands of dollars trying to secure an offer that has never had less security.
This system is jacked up.
Your son’s team (and all the others) are in GA because you have all been conditioned to believe that’s what you need to do. It never has been as important as all have been led to believe. But that’s never been more true than it is right now.
@DaddyBaller posted:So as the parent of a 2025 this is the part I am having the most difficulty wrapping my brain around.
Seems like the top schools want to have their cake and eat it too. They have "commitments" from kids that haven't even started high school, but will dump them at the drop of a hat for proven college talent when they show up on campus.
Yet somehow all of my son's freshmen high school teammates are in GA this week along with 300+ teams spending thousands of dollars trying to secure an offer that has never had less security.
This system is jacked up.
1/2 way through my 2022's HS career, I realize that the journey was more fun the less I worried about it.
Do what you can, but don't sweat it.
Enjoy the time in the car, enjoy the dinners, enjoy washing the uniforms at a hotel that only has 2 wash machines (imagine an tournament organization giving you this hotel......I digress), enjoy the dinners w/ the other parents, enjoy the vitamin D3, enjoy preparing for the trip, enjoy it all...........because soon it ends (1 more trip for sure, and hope to have 1 more big one), because in a bit you'll be looking at the dogs thinking "it's just me and you now".
@adbono posted:Your son’s team (and all the others) are in GA because you have all been conditioned to believe that’s what you need to do. It never has been as important as all have been led to believe. But that’s never been more true than it is right now.
Just to be clear we walked away from the big time "travel" program this summer, but all of his 2025 highschool teammates are there.
He's playing locally in 17u and 16u tournaments. This is FL so he's basically facing the same level of "elite" 2025 competition at a fraction of the cost....
Still get all the joys of car rides and team meals but with the benefit of keeping the lights on at home. 😉
@DaddyBaller posted:Yet somehow all of my son's freshmen high school teammates are in GA this week along with 300+ teams spending thousands of dollars trying to secure an offer that has never had less security.
This system is jacked up.
WWBA used to be a very good thing. It still is if you're part of the inner circle - the teams that make the playoffs. Georgia is a flight for us and schools 10 miles away were there watching at 2am so it's not all bad. It's just not good if you don't do it right. Which unfortunately is the case for about 60% of the teams there
I agree that the big tournaments and the summer circuit have a place in confirming the measurables with on field performance.
But I would say 95% of most rising sophomores don't have the numbers D1's are looking for and the lower levels are not recruiting that far in advance.
Just don't see the value in "chasing it" at such a young age. In the world of social media if you're a legit "dude", the right people know who you are before you even have to leave your home town.
I think WWBA is still important or at least it was for my son. I don’t know what you replace it with There are still college scouts there for the younger guys like this week and the studs. There will be fewer in the weeks to come as the older guys come.
@DaddyBaller posted:So as the parent of a 2025 this is the part I am having the most difficulty wrapping my brain around.
Seems like the top schools want to have their cake and eat it too. They have "commitments" from kids that haven't even started high school, but will dump them at the drop of a hat for proven college talent when they show up on campus.
Yet somehow all of my son's freshmen high school teammates are in GA this week along with 300+ teams spending thousands of dollars trying to secure an offer that has never had less security.
This system is jacked up.
@daddyballer
It was the same in 2012, fortunately my sister lived in Georgia. So all I had to do is buy food and cook a couple of meals for the family.
I make a mean Lasagna.
@DaddyBaller posted:Yet somehow all of my son's freshmen high school teammates are in GA this week along with 300+ teams spending thousands of dollars trying to secure an offer that has never had less security.
Of course they are and there is an easily understandable reason for that. EVERY kid (and their parents) believe that they will prevail no matter what the situation is. EVERY kid (and their parents) sincerely BELIEVE they are special. Because that is exactly what we've told them their entire baseball "careers." When you are 100% convinced that you will succeed once you get through the door, getting through the door - no matter how expensive, time-consuming, etc - is all that matters. It's actually sound logic when you're convinced all you NEED is the opportunity. In other words, getting into a D1 program WILL result in me succeeding, so the only problem we have to solve for - is getting ANY offer. Including a walk on.
Everybody (in all walks of life) believes in this statement - just give me the opportunity and I'll deliver. I know I can, so I will.
A 2022 catcher/former teammate of my son got and accepted a late offer from an SEC school last August. The coaches seat is at least warm there having not made the SEC tourney since 2019 and finishing last in the SEC East 2 years in a row now. A late offer? A coach on the ropes? A freshman coming from the state of Nebraska? There is plenty there to be worried about, but guess what? There is none. Why? Because the kid and his folks KNOW he'll succeed.
So I completely understand why so many go to great lengths just to get that offer. What almost no one is ready to understand is that even in a classroom full of 25 A students, some straight-A kid is #25. So are numbers 4 through 24.
To be honest, when we went to WWBA, we bought the koolaid that it was about playing against the best, we really didn't know how much it might matter for recruiting (which, in the end, it didn't for D3). I still don't think that was entirely wrong.
My question is, where are all the future D1 transfers supposed to go out of HS? Do they go to jucos, or to lower-level D1s, and then hope to transfer up? And, where are all the juco and lower-level D1 coaches recruiting? Just locally?
And this thread was about juco coaches going to D1s. But, if you are looking for development, how do you find good coaches at jucos or lower-level schools, if those coaches are moving up?
And, what happens when the NCAA realizes what a disaster the open transfer thing is, and reverses?
The whole system seems to be entirely unstable, and it's hard to see when or how stability will come.