Where would a 2020 kid be in the recruiting process for a juco? If it’s getting late for D1’s when does it get late for juco? We are just starting to play games so feeling behind on trying to get any game video also. Thank you!
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
I wouldn't worry about game video. Shoot your own video focused just on your son and his skills.
My 2018 was visiting both D1s and Jucos during and after his junior season (May-July 2017). Finally committed to P5 in September of 2017 but had some tempting offers from jucos at about the same time.
P5?
Geezmom posted:P5?
I felt really smart when I typed that, but to be honest, I don't know much about it. P5 is a power five conference — Big 10, Big 12, ACC, Pac12 and SEC. Literally all I can tell you is I think it's actually decided by football, and that it's a good thing.
My key thing with JUCO is to watch academics. We really liked a couple of JUCOs, but when I dug into what classes he would take, I realized that with AP and dual credit classes, he'd be done with what they had to offer after a year (maybe a semester). i realize not your question, but worth thinking about.
Thank you! That’s a good point too. Every time I think I know something there is another valid twist!
This is a prime time for 2020's in the JUCO recruiting timeline , throughout this coming summer. A lot of JUCO's will offer in the summer before Senior year or in the Fall of Senior year.
Geezmom posted:Where would a 2020 kid be in the recruiting process for a juco? If it’s getting late for D1’s when does it get late for juco? We are just starting to play games so feeling behind on trying to get any game video also. Thank you!
I know of a few 2020’s that are committed to Juco’s. We had a few big time programs at a high school game and they were there to watch a 2019. I think it’s still very early in the process for 2020’s and Juco’s. There are still quite a few D1’s who don’t have a 2020 commit.
From what I've seen, JUCO's like to suss out how serious you are about about attending Junior College. They know that for a lot of kids its a "Last Chance U" thing where the JUCO is purely a backup plan. If they know you are serious about attending they will offer a Junior, and especially will offer in the summer before Senior year.
We have already visited with a couple JUCO’s last year, sent letters and went to a game when we were in AZ for spring break. So, I hope that lets them know it’s not a “last chance U” situation.
Your 2020 is in great shape on the juco recruiting timeline. National Signing Day for NJCAA is November 1st of his senior year. He has until then (and later) to work on getting verbal offers. Here is some other juco information that might be helpful:
Most juco baseball is either NJCAA or CCCAA (California).
Scholarship limits are different in each NJCAA division. D1 can offer up to tuition/books/fees/room/board, D2 just tuition/books/fees, and there are no scholarships in D3.
High school students can visit NJCAA schools and try out at their facilities.
There are virtually no limits on contact between NJCAA coaches and high school prospects.
The higher level juco baseball programs routinely add NCAA D1 "drop-downs" to their rosters both during the summer and after the fall semester.
MidAtlanticDad posted:The higher level juco baseball programs routinely add NCAA D1 "drop-downs" to their rosters both during the summer and after the fall semester.
This is a very important point that, (in my opinion), cannot be emphasized enough.
It is vital to do a ton of research on each individual JUCO school to get a clear idea of how they run their program. That is true at any level of College Baseball but perhaps extra true with JUCO's. They are a bit like the "Wild West" of College Baseball with much looser rules, players (and often coaches) coming & going, and all sorts of things going on. Because of that, every single JUCO can really be considered an individual in how they go about things.
The top JUCO's do indeed rely on "D1 Drop Downs" to make their runs at National Championships. They might not know exactly who is coming, but they keep spots open because they know inevitably there'll be great players showing up in January.
So, you have to do your research on each rostered player, and find out where they came from. My Kid will often Google search their name to see their PBR or Perfect Game profile, and you can fairly quickly get an idea of what brought them to that particular JUCO in terms of if they went right after high school or dropped down from a 4 year. You can also get insight into their measureables to see if you fit into the general profile of the type of athlete that the school recruits.
Yes, that is time consuming, but flying blind into any school can be foolhardy. There are several JUCO's where you could be having a fantastic Fall, leading the team in hitting, and thinking you are going to start in the Spring, and then in January four 6'3" 225 pound Dudes who run 6.5 60's and throw 95+ show up at practice, because they weren't gonna get playing time at their D1, or got into trouble, or had problems academically, or had scouts & agents whispering in their ear that they could get drafted next June, or missed their family and wanted to move closer to home, or all sorts of reasons. And you become their backup.
Having said that, one thing I've found that I wasn't expecting, was that the top JUCO's will frequently place their backups who only got 40 at bats or so per season into D1's after their Soph year.
You need to really pay attention to the stat sheet. A JUCO program that only has 9 or 10 guys get regular at bats and then the player with the 11th most At Bats has something like 9 AB's on the season is a huge red flag to me.
Most schools will have 8 or 9 starting position players (usually 2 Catchers), however there'll be another 7 or 8 guys who get 45-60 At Bats per season, at least.
You also need to look at how long the coaches have been at the program, what type of weight training facilities they have, the academic quality of the school, and you should pay attention to where their players end up.
Some JUCO's only put 1 guy per season into a D1, and the rest go to D3's, a few D2's and NAIA schools. Some JUCO's only put players into pretty much the same 4 or 5 D1's every year. Some JUCO's put 12-14 players into D1's across the country every single year. Some JUCO's only put 2 or 3 players into any college program every year.
Like I said, it is the Wild West.
Long post, I know, but since my 2021 has indicated that he is very strongly considering attending a JUCO for his first two years of college it is something that he (and I) have started to put a lot of study into.
great post 3and2fastball! MY 2020 son just committed, along with another 2020 shortstop to a very good JUCO not far from us here in OKC....that being said, I saw last night on Twitter that the same school signed a 2019 catcher from the area near the school...so it looks like maybe there isn't a set time table. The drop down situation really concerns me...I wasnt aware that the schools place the player with appx 40 ab's in D1...but that is reassuring to know..
edcoach posted:...I wasnt aware that the schools place the player with appx 40 ab's in D1...but that is reassuring to know..
Some of them, not all of them. More frequent at the top schools that year in and year out are ranked in the Top 20, contend for the National Title etc
I've found that, in general, the JUCO backups who do get playing time do end up getting playing opportunities somewhere
luckily that is the JUCO son will attend, top 20, national title contention, etc...but not counting on him getting only 40 ab's....but is decent insurance
Great info 3&2. Hopefully some of the older posters who have been through the JUCO process will join in and give us some feedback. I've also been doing a lot of research such as talking to member of this board, reaching out to college and high school coaches that I know, talking to parents who have been through it or are going through it. I've received a lot of great information, but I think the #1 item is to make sure you do your homework. Know what you are getting into because JUCO A may be known for hitters, JUCO B may be known for developing pitchers, JUCO A may also be known for bringing 60 kids in for the Fall and doing everything he can to run 25 kids off. JUCO C may be known for only bringing in 35 kids but the athletes live in an old run down apartment complex that is also lived in by everyday people. JUCO D may be a top 10 program and send guys to D1, but most of those kids are D1 drop downs.
MidAtlanticDad posted:Your 2020 is in great shape on the juco recruiting timeline. National Signing Day for NJCAA is November 1st of his senior year. He has until then (and later) to work on getting verbal offers. Here is some other juco information that might be helpful:Most juco baseball is either NJCAA or CCCAA (California).Scholarship limits are different in each NJCAA division. D1 can offer up to tuition/books/fees/room/board, D2 just tuition/books/fees, and there are no scholarships in D3.High school students can visit NJCAA schools and try out at their facilities.There are virtually no limits on contact between NJCAA coaches and high school prospects.The higher level juco baseball programs routinely add NCAA D1 "drop-downs" to their rosters both during the summer and after the fall semester.
Can some JUCO’s not give out of state players scholarships because they are only for in state students?
geezmom I've never heard of that before...not saying it's true or not...just haven't heard of it
The state of Kansas has a long standing rule that the Juco’s could not offer out of state scholarships in football and basketball. That rule was just eliminated in the last few years.
Geezmom, can you tell us a bit more about your son's specific situation? Why the focus on Juco? Is he getting attention from them? I know you state that you are "in the middle of nowhere" in profile but are you looking at Juco's close to you or far away?
FYI, our experience with Juco's in Calif. is quite different than some of what is being stated in this thread. Typically, they know they are plan B or Z for many of the better players and, therefore, the recruiting timeline tends to be very late - not uncommon for it to be during senior season or even after. Many players will find 4-yr schools after their JC days but a backup will very rarely get a D1 opportunity, despite a deep pool of very good players. To concur with the dropdown scenario, there are D2's here that have a pipeline... Many are part of the State U system that have academic priority acceptance arrangements with the local JC's. If the D2 is cutting decent players in the fall, they may "strongly suggest" that player go to a nearby affiliated JC to "get better/gain more experience". So, these players show up at the JC late Fall or even in January and take playing time from others.
Also, there are regional recruiting restrictions. Coaches cannot reach out of their region unless it is player-initiated.
Yes, California, from what I've learned and read on here, is a completely different world when it comes to JUCO's
edcoach posted:luckily that is the JUCO son will attend, top 20, national title contention, etc...
Congrats on your son committing to such a great program! That is truly a significant achievment. I hope you keep us up to date on how everything goes.
thanks 3and2fastball, will do. I think everyone's sons on here are in a great position moving forward
He wants to go south so he can play baseball outside. Since we are from a smaller town situation with 4 months a year of playing time, he wants to play a lot of ball. He took the winter off from playing basketball to focus on lifting and hitting etc. He is a good student (3.83 gpa, National Honor Society etc) so that’s not an issue. HS ball just got going and he has a busy Legion season coming. But since we are so far north no one comes up here. We plan on attending some college camps this summer. I feel weird talking about him on here... He has a couple D1 coaches that text every so often to see how he is doing. One of our issues is getting to see college ball so we can see level of play. It’s an uphill battle for sure.
Geezmom posted:He wants to go south so he can play baseball outside. Since we are from a smaller town situation with 4 months a year of playing time, he wants to play a lot of ball. He took the winter off from playing basketball to focus on lifting and hitting etc. He is a good student (3.83 gpa, National Honor Society etc) so that’s not an issue. HS ball just got going and he has a busy Legion season coming. But since we are so far north no one comes up here. We plan on attending some college camps this summer. I feel weird talking about him on here... He has a couple D1 coaches that text every so often to see how he is doing. One of our issues is getting to see college ball so we can see level of play. It’s an uphill battle for sure.
OK, makes sense. So, considering he is a solid student, why JC? Does he see that as a path to D1? BTW, this site is a great resource and you are using it in a very appropriate manner... can be particularly helpful in a situation like your son's where he is somewhat out on an island in ways.
I read this thread to learn even though my kids are done playing. Exposure to JuCos was never part of the process. I only have a small add. My understanding is JuCos tend to have unlimited rosters. A coach is always going to say, “Sure, we would love to have you here. There’s an opportunity to compete for a position.” What I would be looking for is the JuCo coach who wants me. Who is banging down my door selling me to play there. You don’t want to be player 25-50 on the roster.
He has been told he could play D1, but we didn’t know if juco would get him more time to be outside playing ball than D1? Honestly, RJM your point is one of my concerns. We toured a juco sophomore year and the coach said he would have to see him, video isn’t enough. They had a camp but it was during basketball so we didn’t go. I’m starting to think we should have gone. He has a BF page so he did get a lot of college camp invites but we didn’t think it was were he was interested in going. He likes AZ and we have family there. Headfirst emails daily but I don’t picture him at HA. He has never done a PG event either. I think Easter weekend will be for letter writing and baseball discussion and church.
On RJM's note JuCo's don't have roster limits. It's somewhat common to have 50+ at the first practice in the fall - especially good programs. Unlike the NCAA, the NJCAA allows a limited schedule in the fall (say 15-20 games) and they don't count against the 56 game schedule. The fall season is essentially the player's tryout. When my son was recruited by a JuCo he (and I) were mildly shocked when there were 55+ at the first tryout. When asked if the coach was going to cut, he simply said he won't have to, they'll self cut by spring. Sure enough, there were some that became disillusioned and quit, more that were red-shirted due to health issues and a few who had academic issues. By game one there were only 35 or so on the roster.
Of that 35 there were about 10 solid starters (my son among them), about 7-9 pitchers of which 3-4 were the main starters and the rest were relievers. Some never saw the mound except in the bullpen.
To RJM's point, just like the D1's, once a player makes the roster, then he has to compete to be on the travel squad and also compete to make the starting lineup. Son's JuCo only took 25 on away games - bus only seated 28 with seating for 25 players and 3 coaches plus gear. I'll never forget getting a call from my son the last away weekend in the fall of his freshman year. He had finally made the travel squad and they would be scrimmaging a D1 school not far from home. Note - the JuCo he was attending was 250 miles from home.
And one last point - like most D1/D2/D3 programs in the NCAA programs, most, if not all, players at the JuCo level were HS studs.
He's not behind on the JUCO trail. Most will be doing their recruiting at the end of the summer all the way up until November. The weaker the program, the more time you have. Our local school will have commits all the way up thru July.
Just like D1s and D3s, not all Jucos are created equal. There are some that will go toe to toe with some strong D1 programs and there are some which would lose to a good HS team. But don't walk away from D1s to head down to San Jacinto because it will be easier to play. Not the case. I also would not choose a program based on how much they're going to be outside. Find a good fit, if he wants to be outside more target schools in warmer climates and go from there.
Try to go to a college game. I know it is hard where you're from, but doesn't need to be d1. Take him to a D2 game and see if he can play there. Unless it is a top 50 or so program, I would try to hold off as long as possible and keep all options open. Really no need to jump at an offer from an average juco 12 hours from home.
FoxDad posted:On RJM's note JuCo's don't have roster limits. It's somewhat common to have 50+ at the first practice in the fall - especially good programs. Unlike the NCAA, the NJCAA allows a limited schedule in the fall (say 15-20 games) and they don't count against the 56 game schedule. The fall season is essentially the player's tryout. When my son was recruited by a JuCo he (and I) were mildly shocked when there were 55+ at the first tryout. When asked if the coach was going to cut, he simply said he won't have to, they'll self cut by spring. Sure enough, there were some that became disillusioned and quit, more that were red-shirted due to health issues and a few who had academic issues. By game one there were only 35 or so on the roster.
Of that 35 there were about 10 solid starters (my son among them), about 7-9 pitchers of which 3-4 were the main starters and the rest were relievers. Some never saw the mound except in the bullpen.
To RJM's point, just like the D1's, once a player makes the roster, then he has to compete to be on the travel squad and also compete to make the starting lineup. Son's JuCo only took 25 on away games - bus only seated 28 with seating for 25 players and 3 coaches plus gear. I'll never forget getting a call from my son the last away weekend in the fall of his freshman year. He had finally made the travel squad and they would be scrimmaging a D1 school not far from home. Note - the JuCo he was attending was 250 miles from home.
And one last point - like most D1/D2/D3 programs in the NCAA programs, most, if not all, players at the JuCo level were HS studs.
On the numbers issue — we toured a few JUCOs. One coach of a really strong program commented that he wasn't required to recruit to "fill the dorms" which I thought said a lot about other programs and what they are trying to accomplish.
Younger son started to hear from local So Cal jucos spring of Sr. Year untill August just prior to college classes starting.
Iowamom23 posted:FoxDad posted:On RJM's note JuCo's don't have roster limits. It's somewhat common to have 50+ at the first practice in the fall - especially good programs. Unlike the NCAA, the NJCAA allows a limited schedule in the fall (say 15-20 games) and they don't count against the 56 game schedule. The fall season is essentially the player's tryout. When my son was recruited by a JuCo he (and I) were mildly shocked when there were 55+ at the first tryout. When asked if the coach was going to cut, he simply said he won't have to, they'll self cut by spring. Sure enough, there were some that became disillusioned and quit, more that were red-shirted due to health issues and a few who had academic issues. By game one there were only 35 or so on the roster.
Of that 35 there were about 10 solid starters (my son among them), about 7-9 pitchers of which 3-4 were the main starters and the rest were relievers. Some never saw the mound except in the bullpen.
To RJM's point, just like the D1's, once a player makes the roster, then he has to compete to be on the travel squad and also compete to make the starting lineup. Son's JuCo only took 25 on away games - bus only seated 28 with seating for 25 players and 3 coaches plus gear. I'll never forget getting a call from my son the last away weekend in the fall of his freshman year. He had finally made the travel squad and they would be scrimmaging a D1 school not far from home. Note - the JuCo he was attending was 250 miles from home.
And one last point - like most D1/D2/D3 programs in the NCAA programs, most, if not all, players at the JuCo level were HS studs.
On the numbers issue — we toured a few JUCOs. One coach of a really strong program commented that he wasn't required to recruit to "fill the dorms" which I thought said a lot about other programs and what they are trying to accomplish.
My son is playing at a very good JUCO program in Oklahoma that is nationally ranked. On his recruiting visit these were the first two questions I asked : 1. How many other players are you bringing in at his position? 2. How many players do you bring in for the fall? When I got the answers, "none if I get your son" and "36 - I don't bring in kids to fundraise and then get cut. I couldn't sleep at night if I did that", I felt like we were dealing with an honorable man. My intuition was confirmed a few weeks later when an MLB scout told me that he would let his son play for this JUCO coach. So far the experience for my son has been as good as you could hope for. 5 sophomores are committed to D1 mid-major programs. 4 more are committed to solid D2 programs. 2 more that are good enough to move on are still uncommitted. No back ups are moving on to D1 programs and I can tell you with certainty that rarely happens. It has been mentioned before (in a number of threads) that you should talk to current and former players if you want to know what a program is really like. Kids will tell you the truth. You should also do your homework up front (as many people have said) so you know how deep the water is before you jump in. Because once you are in it can be difficult (and political) to get out. But if you find the right situation it can be really good.
Adbono can I ask which college he's at? Have friends at noc enid and noc tonkowa...I know ok has several great baseball jucos...seminole. Connors etc
JUCOs can offer 24 full scholarships I think. Pretty sure they can recruit and sign players anytime they want and the 4 years players are called "blowbacks". San Jacinto a perennial JUCO power just got Ina lot of trouble for recruiting issues. If you get in trouble for recruiting violations at the JUCO level you must have killed someone....it wide open.
Nonamedad posted:JUCOs can offer 24 full scholarships I think. Pretty sure they can recruit and sign players anytime they want and the 4 years players are called "blowbacks". San Jacinto a perennial JUCO power just got Ina lot of trouble for recruiting issues. If you get in trouble for recruiting violations at the JUCO level you must have killed someone....it wide open.
JuCos can offer 24 scholarships IF they are fully funded. Many are not. San Jac got in trouble for paying for out of state recruits with federally funded work study program money when the players performed no work. Somehow the HC kept his job.
edcoach posted:Adbono can I ask which college he's at? Have friends at noc enid and noc tonkowa...I know ok has several great baseball jucos...seminole. Connors etc
I will send you a PM
Nonamedad posted:JUCOs can offer 24 full scholarships I think. Pretty sure they can recruit and sign players anytime they want and the 4 years players are called "blowbacks". San Jacinto a perennial JUCO power just got Ina lot of trouble for recruiting issues. If you get in trouble for recruiting violations at the JUCO level you must have killed someone....it wide open.
I would add one addendum - subject to state law. For example, while under NJCAA rules D2 JuCo's can offer athletic scholarships, Virginia state law prohibits this.
Does he have verified metrics? If not, I would get him to a PBR. That will give you an idea of where he stands compared to others and if it might be worth a visit to a prospect camp at a school of interest. You would also have verified stats to send to various schools to see who shows interest.
He does from BF. There isn’t a PBR in our area. We plan on doing some college prospect camps this summer and he has written to a few schools.
What was the feedback from BF? We haven't done one, so I'm not sure how that is done. Do his metrics put him at D1 level? If so, I would find a way to get him to a high visibility showcase soon. If he is showing D2 or D3, I would have him pick a few prospect camps for those schools. Does he have a coach making calls for him? That makes a big difference.