JuCo Route

A lot of Juco's are located in rural areas, and many kids don't want to live there for 2 years. Some people also have a stigma about Juco's as being for "stupid kids". There is 0 disadvantage to going to a Juco. Draft eligible after both years, no limit on practice time, easier time contributing in early years. Just has to do with peoples preconceived notions of it. Most people I've met who look down on Juco's are very well off financially, and don't want to tell someone their kids go to community college.

Coach, there is a long list of pros and cons when considering the JC route and as a recent thread illustrates, every player's recruiting path is unique with "best fit" being equally varied.  

You've hit on some considerations... cost, location, convenience, development, opportunity to play right away, pipeline to 4 yr...  Other pro's may include grade requirements, friends, familiarity, option to live at home, draft implications and dozens more.  Just a few potential cons can be quality of education, commuter feel, lacks the traditional 4 yr big college experience, class transfer issues, lack of preferred major and dozens more.  Many of the pro's I listed would be considered cons for some people.  If you go the JC route, you have to go through the recruiting process all over again in a year or two or three.   Some JC's are extremely competitive and are much tougher to make the roster or earn PT than HS players think.  Some JC coaches are notorious for bringing in 80-100 players in the fall.  Some JC coaches are notorious for asking 8-12 players to redshirt a year.  (Not that some of these issues don't exist at 4 year schools) 

So, lots to consider with this and any other level your player may be considering.  

JC ball here in California is very strong with over 80 schools and most are quite competitive.  These players fill pipelines of four year schools not only here in state but in several states across the country.

Playing time isn’t guaranteed at a JuCo any more than a four year. JuCo's tend to over recruit. After going through the recruiting drill in high school do you want to do it again? Baseball and academics are enough to deal with in college. Who wants to add recruiting to the mix? 

JuCo’s work for some players. It doesn’t work for others. The road isn’t the same for everyone.

From my perspective JuCo’s are for going 4-2-4 without losing a season of playing time. This is how I see them in relation to if my kids had needed them. It’s not right or wrong. It’s just me.

Another view would be academically and job search wise it doesn’t matter where you start. It’s where you graduate. As someone mentioned it’s an inexpensive way to get in two years of college.

JuCo’s create an avenue where there isn’t an excuse to not get a college degree. 

Juco…I’ve looked into it a LOT. 

Here are the pro’s as I see them:

1. Less expensive
2. Smaller class size
3. Usually local to you
4. Can be drafted both years
5. Can be a great option for kids who didn’t/couldn’t take a foreign language required by NCAA (as an FYI, NAIA is also a good option for this issue)
6. Can be a great option for kids who didn’t meet the NCAA grade and or SAT/ACT requirement
7. Many college coaches would rather give a JUCO kid, who has been playing for 2 years, scholarship money over an unproven high school kid.
8. If the player is decent the JUCO coach pretty much finds him a spot at a 4 year school.
9. JUCO has 24 scholarships available, which reduces an already cheap college price tag to beyond reasonable.

Here are the con’s:

1. It’s usually local to you (that’s a con from my kid :- )
2. The roster can be HUGE, there is no guaranteed playing time.
3. All the guys that thought they should be D1, but for whatever reason didn’t go D1 are now at JUCO and they are impressive, the fight for playing time is a real thing.
4. Not all of the credits transfer. If your son really wants to go to College X, he should call and see if they work with any specific JUCO’s.  Some have a pipeline system where all the credits transfer, other’s do not and instead of 64 credits making them a junior when they enter the 4 year college they are only at 48…and very behind to graduate in 4 years now.  Many JUCO players take 5 years in college.
5. There is something to be said for a 4 year college atmosphere that doesn’t exist at JUCO’s because there aren't dorms.
6. The baseball dream can be ended at JUCO without ever getting to a NCAA college

Great question TV and great answer CACOGIRL3!  I have something to add.  Will be back in a bit with that!

A lot of good info here. Unfortunately a lot of it is the ego factor (often times for the parents as much or more than the kids) of throwing the term D1 around. Every situation is unique, but Juco ball offers outstanding opportunities around here. 

Also, many draft eligible players can use this as leverage if they, really have a chance to be drafted out of HS. Telling the MLB that you are going to 4 four year if the offer is not right, has much more clout than telling them you are going to a JUCO. 

My son has a friend who is a 2018 catcher.  He didn't get the offer that he was looking for after HS.  He's playing at the local JUCO now - which is a pretty good one, in terms of those in our area.  As he told my son "I wasn't going to play much as a freshmen anywhere, anyway.  Now, I am close to home.  I'm still going to college and earning credits.  Plus, I get to train everyday at the facility (where he goes with my son) that I love.  This is just two years where I can focus on GETTING BETTER.  And, when I'm done in two years, I can still then play somewhere else."

To his point, I know a kid who was going D3 and at the last minute the deal went south.  He enrolled in the same JUCO and played there for 2 years.  Now, he's continuing at a D1 in Texas.  So, you can make a case that he's benefited from doing the JUCO route.

The thing to watch out for in JUCO is massive over recruiting.  I know of one that brought in about 65 kids for the Fall. 

Coach TV, reading back on your OP, I will add...

Success at the JC level often goes a long way in leading to 4 yr opportunities, as has been mentioned.  In fact, many 4 yr schools rely more heavily on JC recruits than on recruits out of HS.  But the large majority of these JC transfers occur at levels other than D1.

In terms of academics, all JUCOs are not created equal.  Do your homework and you can find those that have higher academic standing.  The points made earlier about credits transferring (or not) are legit and are very important to look into beforehand.

From a baseball perspective, here are some key issues :                                                                                 1. Do some research on the roster.  See where the players come from & where they advance to - and not just current year.  There are certain roster make-ups that are less attractive than others. Some schools do a better job of advancing their players than others.  A lot of information about both these things is available online.                                                                                                                                        2. Research the coaching staff.  Most JUCO staffs are strong in pitching or hitting - but often not both.  So a place that is good for developing pitchers may not be a good place for a position player. Its all about the right fit more than it is about the name on the front of the jersey.                                   3. Points made earlier about over-recruiting and redshirting are valid concerns.  So ask how many players are brought in each fall.  IMO if the answer is above 40 you should keep looking.  IMO it also makes no sense to waste a redshirt year at a JUCO.  If you are looking at a JUCO school with a history of asking 4 to 8 freshmen a year to redshirt, keep looking.                                                                             4. Be realistic about your kids level of ability.  The amount of talent at the JUCO level is way better than most people realize.  The point of going to a JUCO is to PLAY as a freshman/sophomore.  You are way better off playing at a mid-level JUCO than being 3rd team at the bigger name school.              5. Look at the spring game schedule to determine the amount of travel involved.  Some teams travel way more than others.  Excessive travel is disruptive to classwork, so make sure you are looking at a reasonable travel schedule.                                                                                                                                  6. If you go JUCO expect it to be a 2 year commitment.  Almost all JUCO coaches want their players for 2 years and will not help them to advance after one great year.  This doesn't apply to all - but it does apply to MOST.                                                                                                                                                7. Maybe most importantly, do some research as to how the players are treated.  Most JUCO coaches are very independent and are not used to answering to a Board of Regents or alumni about how they run their program.  So they do pretty much whatever they want - which can be good or bad.  The best thing to do is talk to current and/or former players (or their families) about what the experience was like for them.

I guess what I'm saying is that a JUCO should be scrutinized to the same degree that a 4 year school would be - and it seems like often that's not the case for whatever reason. 

 CaCo  covered about all of it pretty good.

no living on campus 90% of the time

lots of free time and not much to do

I should add a couple of things:                                                                                                                            1. All JUCOs are not fully funded so all don't have 24 scholarships to offer.  Only fully funded D1 JUCOs have 24.                                                                                                                                                       2. Many JUCOs do have on campus housing - and many don't. 

Coach_TV posted:

I've seen a few absolute stud top level D1 type kids commit D1 schools, but I've also seen quite a few of the "other" kids (which my kid would be in this group) commit to JuCo programs.  As I step back and think about it from a financial, playing time and development perspective...why wouldn't more kids commit to a 2yr JuCo instead of a 4yr DII or DIII?

I would think that the immediate opportunity to play and develop without spending a ton of money for the education would be attractive.

Most JUCOs aren't that good. They can absolutely be a good option, but most of the time, the local JUCO pulling kids from a 30 minute radius isn't that great at baseball. Obviously this varies based on region. If you look at the roster and players from other states are attending and living off campus (Chipola, San Jacinto, McLennan) it is probably better than the local community college. 

Also if you are a D2 or D3 prospect, it's unlikely you're a pro prospect. So for many it has more to do with going to the best school possible than it does with baseball opportunities. If my kid were deciding between D2 schools I would probably save the money for 2 years and reevaluate after

Chipola, San Jac & McLennan are better than a lot of D1s.  There is a very wide range of talent throughout  JUCO so generalizations don't usually apply.  The BEST  JUCO baseball in some places (like CA, TX, FLA, AZ,) is better than ANY baseball in some states.

Yeah, those schools are MLB funnels mostly used by D1 players looking to get drafted. I'm talking run of the mill JUCO in your backyard. It usually isn't that good. To find a JUCO with good baseball you often have to travel. Point being that most local JUCOs aren't all that good. OP is very fortunate to have a very good one close to him

Not all JuCos are the solution. Our local JuCo couldn’t beat the local high school team. The roster isn’t even former high school third team all conference talent. They lose by one sided football scores to most of the conference. 

RJM posted:

Not all JuCos are the solution. Our local JuCo couldn’t beat the local high school team. The roster isn’t even former high school third team all conference talent? They lose by one sided football scores to most of the conference. 

It is a regional thing.  Your comment is understandable if you are in Mass.  In Texas there are a handful of JUCOs (San Jac, McLennan, Grayson, Cisco - just to name a few) that could beat any most D1 in the northeast.

adbono posted:

RJM posted:

Not all JuCos are the solution. Our local JuCo couldn’t beat the local high school team. The roster isn’t even former high school third team all conference talent? They lose by one sided football scores to most of the conference. 

It is a regional thing.  Your comment is understandable if you are in Mass.  In Texas there are a handful of JUCOs (San Jac, McLennan, Grayson, Cisco - just to name a few) that could beat any most D1 in the northeast.

What I'm saying is that kids are traveling to attend those schools. They are a far cry from the average JUCO. If you are willing to travel and live off campus at a Juco then it can be worth it. Attending your backyard Juco to further your baseball career is rarely going to work out. 

Our high school scrimmages McLennon a few times each Fall, the roster seems huge.  We played a double header last year  and they had two separate teams play and there were still a ton of guys in the dugout both games.  There were a few guys that had scout watching them. I would say that play time isn’t at all a guarantee.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

 CaCo  covered about all of it pretty good.

no living on campus 90% of the time

lots of free time and not much to do

 

 

Huh?  My son played baseball at a D2 JuCo and between classes, practice and games had very little "free" time.   Now if they are just a student and not participating in any sports they may have a lot more free time than a student-athlete.

Son's average day (even in the off season) started at 5 am (6 am workouts), then class until 2 pm.   Practice from 3 pm to 6 pm (sometimes 7 pm), dinner, then classwork.   What free time?  When the season started there was even less "free" time.

One thing I would add to CaCo's list is do your research.   Even though D2 JuCo's can offer scholarships, in some states (such as VA) don't allow any JuCo to offer athletic scholarships.   My son was fortunate as he qualified for a Commonwealth Grant from the state - was not based on athletics.

A potential student athlete playing for a JuCo (NJCAA or otherwise) does not need to create an account with the NCAA Clearinghouse until he/she is going to go a NCAA school and participate in atheletics.

adbono posted:

RJM posted:

Not all JuCos are the solution. Our local JuCo couldn’t beat the local high school team. The roster isn’t even former high school third team all conference talent? They lose by one sided football scores to most of the conference. 

It is a regional thing.  Your comment is understandable if you are in Mass.  In Texas there are a handful of JUCOs (San Jac, McLennan, Grayson, Cisco - just to name a few) that could beat any most D1 in the northeast.

This, Texas JUCOs play and beat Texas, TCU, A&M and Baylor. Almost every D1 JUCO is fully funded and has housing. I was very impressed with the ones I saw.

It’s any given day.  I would bet the D1s are giving some kids a shot, trying out pitching, etc.  Our hs beat the Juco this fall but they were also probably trying out some kids with us.  Not to say there isn’t talent, but I don’t think starters to starters they are beating the D1 programs with any consistency.

I would agree with ADBONO.  There are some really tough JUCO's.  When you start talking Walters State and Chipola and others that have been named.   FSU and Florida took Chipola off their schedules because they were getting beat.  UT will not play Walter's State.  But I also know there are some that are not as good as high school teams.  It depends on the goal of the school as to whether they want to do what it takes to compete or just field a team for local players to continue to play.

I attended a local juco vs D1 fall game in October. Printed rosters were provided. 35 names on the D1. 52 names on the juco. The juco had 80-something at the first tryout. Plus they always pick up D1 guys after the fall semester.

I give the same advice to kids regardless of where they want to go to school... if playing time is important to you, then do your best to choose a school where you know that you could complete for a job with that school's starters as a senior in high school.

adbono posted:

RJM posted:

Not all JuCos are the solution. Our local JuCo couldn’t beat the local high school team. The roster isn’t even former high school third team all conference talent? They lose by one sided football scores to most of the conference. 

It is a regional thing.  Your comment is understandable if you are in Mass.  In Texas there are a handful of JUCOs (San Jac, McLennan, Grayson, Cisco - just to name a few) that could beat any most D1 in the northeast.

I would agree it's a regional thing, we're fortunate that Iowa Western is right across the river from us and have a good program with a history of winning and kids going D1 after their time @IWCC.  

We've had several kids from our high school go to places like Barton and South Mountain as well.  Time will tell where my son ends up, he's only a sophomore but will play varsity this year; so we'll know more this time next year.

Thank you all for the responses.

Just wanted to add, though this may have been covered,  juco’s are definitely a great option especially if you attend the right, competitive one. CA offers no athletic scholarships but they’re fairly inexpensive anyways. My son went to one of the better jucos in arguably the best conference in CA.  Didn’t get the offers he wanted out of HS and definitely needed to grow as a player.  After 2 solid years, is currently at a 4 year.  

Free time- he has more free time at his D1 now than he did at juco.  He’s expressed his schedule at juco was more rigorous than now (between school/baseball/sleep).  Nothing against his D1, but just shows that jucos aren’t slacking  

Over recruiting- true, 50-60+ kids is ALOT in the fall, but it’ll make your kid grow and compete and if he’s one of the better kids as they expect him to be, he’ll be able to stick around.  

havanajay posted:

Just wanted to add, though this may have been covered,  juco’s are definitely a great option especially if you attend the right, competitive one. CA offers no athletic scholarships but they’re fairly inexpensive anyways. My son went to one of the better jucos in arguably the best conference in CA.  Didn’t get the offers he wanted out of HS and definitely needed to grow as a player.  After 2 solid years, is currently at a 4 year.  

Free time- he has more free time at his D1 now than he did at juco.  He’s expressed his schedule at juco was more rigorous than now (between school/baseball/sleep).  Nothing against his D1, but just shows that jucos aren’t slacking  

Over recruiting- true, 50-60+ kids is ALOT in the fall, but it’ll make your kid grow and compete and if he’s one of the better kids as they expect him to be, he’ll be able to stick around.  

Son and others who played for me have faced Fall numbers much closer to 100 players at a handful of California JC's.  Yes, there were some of those who didn't belong.  But of all the kids who have gone that route, every single one I have spoken to underestimated just how many good players show up at decent JC's here.  HS all-conference players being cut or otherwise guided out the door by mid-Fall happens with regularity.

So many look at the JC route as their fallback option, which is OK.  But they assume that it will be the easier path from a baseball standpoint, which is often very wrong.

I can also confirm the time commitment comment.  There are less restrictions on JC's, at least here in CA, with regard to practice time and related activities.  Son had more baseball hours at his JC than at his big State U and at the NAIA school where he now coaches.

Well said, Pete. Everything you stated applies to the top JUCOs in Texas also. 

As I skimmed down through this thread of comments, I have two points I'd like to add.

Caco3girl's comment about a "foreign language required by NCAA" is not accurate.  Many universities may require a foreign language as a requirement for admission to that particular university, but such courses are NOT required for NCAA eligibility purposes.

While FoxDad's comment that an athlete going to JUCO doesn't need to establish an account with the NCAA Eligibility Center until they are ready to transfer to an NCAA school is technically accurate, I disagree with that approach.  An athlete planning to transfer from a JUCO to an NCAA Division I or II program can't know for certain what academic requirements they must satisfy while attending the JUCO in order to be eligible when they transfer to an NCAA D-I or II program unless they have registered with the Eligibility Center and have been classified as a Qualifier, an Academic Redshirt/Partial Qualifier, or as a Non-Qualifier.  

Also, some JUCO's do a poor job (or not at all) of making sure that their athletes know the academic requirements that must be satisfied to be eligible upon transfer to a four-year college.  We get a few calls each year in mid to late summer from parents who have just learned that their athlete didn't complete all the necessary courses at JUCO to be eligible for their first season at the NCAA college that they're planning to transfer to.  

Sorry for the confusion, it’s the GA NCAA schools that require a foreign language.