keeping front shoulder in

I only ask, D-Nut, because I've encountered the same issue with my son and others I've worked with. Very quick hands do not always translate into increased bat speed. The hands must travel in the correct path in order to transfer and maximize the uncoiling/rotational energy of the legs, hips, torso, and shoulders. Extremely quick hands flying forward often disengage this rotational energy.

I define quick hands as when a pitcher tries to throw one past you inside it gets knocked out of the park. Quick hands really means quick everything to me. But I have seen my son get fooled and still bring his hands around to drive an inside fastball. His hips might have started a little late but the hands catch up.

I don't think it hands flying forward, That is never a good thing. More like when he has to catch up the hands are pulled in making a faster, shorter swing. I think anyway. All I know is that nobody throws him inside heat unless it is a mistake.

Most people who talk hands and quick hands are usually and actually refering to the arms and shoulders.

Good hitters dont SNATCH the knob out from under the barrel.

The good ones turn the barrel backwards behind the hands while the hands remain properly spaced from the rear shoulder and while the hips are already rotating open.

Just like Kent.



REAR LEGGED

That rear hip is thrusting forward BEFORE that stride foot lands....THE SWING CAUSES THE SHIFT!!

Its NOT shift and plant the stride foot...then swing. nononononononononononono

ain't no yankin on that knob going on!

quote:

Originally posted by swingbuilder:
Most people who talk hands and quick hands are usually and actually refering to the arms and shoulders.

Good hitters dont SNATCH the knob out from under the barrel.

The good ones turn the barrel backwards behind the hands while the hands remain properly spaced from the rear shoulder and while the hips are already rotating open.

Just like Kent.



REAR LEGGED

Agree, Swing. That was what I was driving at with D-Nut. The early backward sweep of the bat, drop of elbow, rotation of the shoulders bringing the arms and hands through. The one-legged drill (in a roundabout way) emphasizes this. His son shouldn't feel a "slappiness" when doing the drill, but should feel the rotation of the upper body instead

Forget the elbow....let it do what it does.

The elbow is not the ignition.

quote:

Originally posted by swingbuilder:
Forget the elbow....let it do what it does.

The elbow is not the ignition.

Who said it was the ignition, Swing? Review the clips of Bonds, Longoria, Williams, Pujols, A-Rod. All drop the elbow into the slot to accelerate--not initiate-- the rearward sweep of the bat head. Or are suggesting the hands or the hips or causing the elbow to lower?

The elbow is not cause in my book.

Watch the spacing of BOTH elbows...that spacing doesn't change...when the back elbow moves so does the front elbow....so that indicates that its the lateral tilt of the shoulders along with the REAR LEG drive train.

quote:

Originally posted by swingbuilder:
The elbow is not cause in my book.

Watch the spacing of BOTH elbows...that spacing doesn't change...when the back elbow moves so does the front elbow....so that indicates that its the lateral tilt of the shoulders along with the REAR LEG drive train.

The aggressiveness of the elbow drop and precise timing of it vary from player to player and from at bat to at bat, but it is crucial to a consistent high-level swing over the long haul.
Rear leg drive train has no PHYSICAL connection to the rear elbow.

I agree with you on the lateral tilt, and subsequent rotation (my addition) of the shoulders at this early stage of the swing. You can’t tilt into the correct position without rotating the shoulders. This lateral tilt/rotation (again varies on each swing because of pitch location) HELPS to expedite the bat head into the proper swing plane level with the in-coming ball. It also accelerates the arms and hands into circular path around the body, creating greater bat speed. Which brings me back to my main point when I joined the discussion two weeks ago—the shoulders contribute much more to a high-level swing than is usually thought and taught and their involvement involves much more than SIMPLY riding along on the momentum of the rest of power/energy chain.

If you can make yourself look deeper and understand this...



Compare the gears above..top one for upperbody, lower one for lower body.

Now watch the orange stripe on Pujols side SHORTEN....that is because the SWING comes together at the exact same place as the gears do!! That IS the drive train to the ENTIRE process....NOT THE SHOULDERS! nor the REAR ELBOW!




You'd realize just how completely wrong this staement is below. Along with all your other shoulder mess.

quote:

Hornetcoach...Rear leg drive train has no PHYSICAL connection to the rear elbow.

But those gears are for a lefty, got any right handed gears?

That is the righthanded gear version.

See the hands sticking off the top gear.

C’mon Swing, the orange stripe on Albert’s back shortens and the “gears” (as you simplistically call a tremendously complicated human biomachanic process) mesh because Albert has learned to ENGAGE this linkage, unlike most of hitters out there. The human body during a baseball swing can engage and disengage linkages, hinge and unhinge, slow and speed up at many locations—the great swing does not automatically happen simply because the hitter ignites the drive train and exhibits great hip and rear-leg energy and the rest of the key elements magically fall into place. You can show great rear-leg hip rotation and still keep your shoulders static; you can drive your hips around 80-90 degrees and still keep your rear elbow up and shoulders untilted; heck, you can even drive your rear leg and rotate your hips properly and throw your arms, hands, and bat skyward!

No, You can keep your hips and hands only mess. I’ll continue to focus on the whole body working together.

thats a deal...until you can back up your talk.

PS. You don't have enough time in a game with a pitched ball to do what you suggest. Enjoy the lower levels and I enjoyed the discussion. Thanks