Running builds leg strength which is key for a pitcher and his stamina and velocity
Perhaps your Mom taught you wrong
Leg strength is key for pitchers---see Tom Seaver and Nolan Ryan along with Roger Clemens
Didn't Randy Johnson train with Tom House for a bit ?
Not to play the Devil's advocate but, experience alone does not prove your knowledge or comprehension.
No disrespect meant to anyone.
I personally have not had the chance to be instructed by Mr. House so I will not make any comments regarding his teaching ability. More often than not I have found that forming opinions from second hand training information is not that great an idea.
Not to play the Devil's advocate but, experience alone does not prove your knowledge or comprehension.
No disrespect meant to anyone.
I personally have not had the chance to be instructed by Mr. House so I will not make any comments regarding his teaching ability. More often than not I have found that forming opinions from second hand training information is not that great an idea.
I can think of a lot better way to train for leg strength in regards to pitching than wasting my time doing long distance running - part of my point.
I'm not looking for rantings, I am curious if this is really the connection that people make and trying to be more specific as to what type of running and why.
I think my mom did good by me
you don't realize who you are talking to have you already forgotten me TRhit. I'm surprised.
I can understand running long distance to build stamina - perhaps. But wat does stamina have to do with gaining velocity ? Which was (if I read correctly) part of your point.
I'm not looking for rantings, I am curious if this is really the connection that people make and trying to be more specific as to what type of running and why.
I think my mom did good by me
you don't realize who you are talking to have you already forgotten me TRhit. I'm surprised.I can understand running long distance to build stamina - perhaps. But wat does stamina have to do with gaining velocity ? Which was (if I read correctly) part of your point.
Very simple. Without stamina, you won't be able to maintain velocity through the course of the outing. Distance running builds some strength in the legs (which will aid velocity), builds stamina for the legs and to some degree for the body.
Maybe I am not communicating clearly. I don't even know if this is worth making a point. It almost seems like useless bantering at this point. But, one last time ...
Texan, you referred to "maintain velocity." I am talking about teaching someone to "increase their velocity." Building leg strength might help someone maintain velocity they already have but it will not teach them how to "gain velocity."
I do think however, that some of the other suggestions that were made earlier have a much more direct application toward throwing and can actually have an impact from an athletic movement standpoint. Meaning they can have a direct impact on increasing the body's ability to move more skillfully. Long distance running has virtually nothing to do wih throwing a baseball. It waste a lot of time when there are many other things more impactful that can be done for the legs which will have a more direct connection with throwing. So, leg strength is not what I was debating. Running for distance and it's impact on increasing velocity is what I am debating.
I guess I am done beating a dead horse now.
Texan, you referred to "maintain velocity." I am talking about teaching someone to "increase their velocity." Building leg strength might help someone maintain velocity they already have but it will not teach them how to "gain velocity."
I do think however, that some of the other suggestions that were made earlier have a much more direct application toward throwing and can actually have an impact from an athletic movement standpoint. Meaning they can have a direct impact on increasing the body's ability to move more skillfully. Long distance running has virtually nothing to do wih throwing a baseball. It waste a lot of time when there are many other things more impactful that can be done for the legs which will have a more direct connection with throwing. So, leg strength is not what I was debating. Running for distance and it's impact on increasing velocity is what I am debating.
I guess I am done beating a dead horse now.
You didn't read what I said, mmtm.
I said "you won't be able to maintain velocity through the course of the outing." It does no good to increase your velocity in the first inning if you drop several mph in the second.
I also said "Distance running builds some strength in the legs (which will aid velocity), builds stamina for the legs and to some degree for the body."
Just because someone asked the usual "how do I throw faster" question, does not mean that posters should not provide some sound feedback that may cover all aspects of becoming a good pitcher.
There is no single silver bullet.
Want to increase velocity?
Grow (assuming the mechanics are sound)
Improve mechanics
Get stronger (not just arm, but core & legs)
I said "you won't be able to maintain velocity through the course of the outing." It does no good to increase your velocity in the first inning if you drop several mph in the second.
I also said "Distance running builds some strength in the legs (which will aid velocity), builds stamina for the legs and to some degree for the body."
Just because someone asked the usual "how do I throw faster" question, does not mean that posters should not provide some sound feedback that may cover all aspects of becoming a good pitcher.
There is no single silver bullet.
Want to increase velocity?
Grow (assuming the mechanics are sound)
Improve mechanics
Get stronger (not just arm, but core & legs)
Let's discuss long toss and towel drills. Then I'll know if MMTM is .........BUSTAMOVE!!!!!!
Texan,
I think you are somehow still not understanding my point. This is not a "how do I throw harder" question.
your comments are focused on a different issue completely - "It does no good to increase your velocity in the first inning if you drop several mph in the second."
I am talking about learning to throw with greater velocity and long distance running's impact on teaching someone to throw harder as a skill/ability.
I am not referring to a pitcher who already has velocity and is simply trying to maintin his velocity through stamina which may be affected by long distance running.
I am discussing; What does long distance running do to teach the body the skill/ability to throw harder ?
I am not suggesting that people don't respond. I am simply suggesting that someone answer the question in light of the way it was asked.
I am not looking for a silver bullet. I would say that trying to teach the body ho to throw harder by running long distance is more like trying to kill a fly from 100ft. away with buckshot. Probably won't happen.
I am suggesting replacing the concept of running long distance with excersises that have a more direct impact on the skill/ability of throwing.
I think you are somehow still not understanding my point. This is not a "how do I throw harder" question.
your comments are focused on a different issue completely - "It does no good to increase your velocity in the first inning if you drop several mph in the second."
I am talking about learning to throw with greater velocity and long distance running's impact on teaching someone to throw harder as a skill/ability.
I am not referring to a pitcher who already has velocity and is simply trying to maintin his velocity through stamina which may be affected by long distance running.
I am discussing; What does long distance running do to teach the body the skill/ability to throw harder ?
I am not suggesting that people don't respond. I am simply suggesting that someone answer the question in light of the way it was asked.
I am not looking for a silver bullet. I would say that trying to teach the body ho to throw harder by running long distance is more like trying to kill a fly from 100ft. away with buckshot. Probably won't happen.
I am suggesting replacing the concept of running long distance with excersises that have a more direct impact on the skill/ability of throwing.
"What we have here is a failure to communicate."
If you want to maximize velocity, you will strengthen the legs - not just the arm and torso. If you want to be able to maintain that velocity in the second inning, you will build stamina. Running accomplishes both.
If you want to maximize velocity, you will strengthen the legs - not just the arm and torso. If you want to be able to maintain that velocity in the second inning, you will build stamina. Running accomplishes both.
quote:Originally posted by Redhead:
Let's discuss long toss and towel drills. Then I'll know if MMTM is .........BUSTAMOVE!!!!!!
I have no idea who bustamove is but ...
Long Toss - Can have a direct impact on teaching the body a better skill/ability of throwing. There is a good chance this will help increae your velocity. Given that you understand the goal. And I do have some tips on how to make it much more effective.
Towel drill, So 80's. I thought we all learned from that experience. But if you are stuck there maybe we can find someone to help get you out. What you have to understand is that no matter what kind of drill you suggest to an athlete you also have to make sure that the goal they have in their mind's eye is exactly what they are striving for in a drill. So even if the towel drill were what the folks here think is a good one, there is still a good chance that each of you have a miscontrued concept of the actual goal of the drill. So in response to the towel drill teaching you to increase the velocity, I would not personally use it. I can think of many other things that would have a better chance teaching your body the skill/ability of throwing harder.
Forgive the typos I am in a hurry. Got work to do.
quote:Originally posted by mymomtaughtme:
I can think of many other things that would have a better chance teaching your body the skill/ability of throwing harder.
So spit 'em out.
Just about any combination of ballistic and static excersises involving the lower body and torso. Especially those that relate directly to moving out, rotating as you move out, simply rotating the pevlic region under a load. These are very general in description but if you went looking for very specific movements you could easily develop your own program.
Actually wind sprints were the traditional way for pitchers to build strength for short bursts that would help with velocity. Distance running is primarily for stamina/general conditioning. But both are important.
Distance running is a great way (though not the only way) to get in shape. I have seen pitchers who are, shall we say, bottom heavy, gain velocity when they get in shape. The fact is, you cannot gain "whip" if you're dragging a ball and chain around.
Also, the stronger you are in your legs, the less you have to rely on trying to muscle the ball with your arm or upper body action to get velocity. Look at a guy like John Smoltz, for example -- still topping out at 96 late in his 30's. If you have ever seen him with his shirt off, he looks like the "before" photo for a body building ad. But his motion is smooth and he gets tremendous hand whip, using his legs and hip turn a great deal.
Distance running is not the only way to do it. Nolan Ryan, for example, did a lot of stationery biking and also did a lot of running under water in a swimming pool. This was for what we would now call "low impact" exercise, to prevent wear and tear on the ankle, knee and hip joints.
But for a younger player, distance running is the easiest thing to prescribe.
Distance running is a great way (though not the only way) to get in shape. I have seen pitchers who are, shall we say, bottom heavy, gain velocity when they get in shape. The fact is, you cannot gain "whip" if you're dragging a ball and chain around.
Also, the stronger you are in your legs, the less you have to rely on trying to muscle the ball with your arm or upper body action to get velocity. Look at a guy like John Smoltz, for example -- still topping out at 96 late in his 30's. If you have ever seen him with his shirt off, he looks like the "before" photo for a body building ad. But his motion is smooth and he gets tremendous hand whip, using his legs and hip turn a great deal.
Distance running is not the only way to do it. Nolan Ryan, for example, did a lot of stationery biking and also did a lot of running under water in a swimming pool. This was for what we would now call "low impact" exercise, to prevent wear and tear on the ankle, knee and hip joints.
But for a younger player, distance running is the easiest thing to prescribe.
Midlo Dad,
I have my 16 y.o. LHP son cross-train when it comes to cardio. I believe that best conditions the heart and lungs (and legs). He bikes 10 miles one day, then runs 3 miles the next. He gets 2 "off" cardio days a week. You can also add some swimming, stair climbing, and maybe even a job!
I have my 16 y.o. LHP son cross-train when it comes to cardio. I believe that best conditions the heart and lungs (and legs). He bikes 10 miles one day, then runs 3 miles the next. He gets 2 "off" cardio days a week. You can also add some swimming, stair climbing, and maybe even a job!
Just jumping in on the end of this long train...
Pitching is ballistic so, from a strength standpoint, sprinting provides more benefit to a pitcher than does long distance running. Someone else mentioned that stamina will help a pitcher maintain his velocity throughout the course of a game (and even a season). But, more importantly, it helps a pitcher maintain good mechanics which, in turn, helps you avoid injury.
As a side note, pitchers should do cardio work as part of their arm care - especially after a game as well as the next day. This can be riding an exercise bike or, as is most often the case, jogging.
Pitching is ballistic so, from a strength standpoint, sprinting provides more benefit to a pitcher than does long distance running. Someone else mentioned that stamina will help a pitcher maintain his velocity throughout the course of a game (and even a season). But, more importantly, it helps a pitcher maintain good mechanics which, in turn, helps you avoid injury.
As a side note, pitchers should do cardio work as part of their arm care - especially after a game as well as the next day. This can be riding an exercise bike or, as is most often the case, jogging.
Bum, sounds great, especially if you can get a teenager to actually go out and do it!
Although you are in that age group -- I would say between 14 and 16 -- where the true players separate from the wannabes. Wannabes like to show up on game day and play. True players understand what is necessary to get themselves where they want to be, they want to do it, and then they actually do it without making excuses for not getting around to it.
Sounds like you may have a prospect on your hands!
Although you are in that age group -- I would say between 14 and 16 -- where the true players separate from the wannabes. Wannabes like to show up on game day and play. True players understand what is necessary to get themselves where they want to be, they want to do it, and then they actually do it without making excuses for not getting around to it.
Sounds like you may have a prospect on your hands!
Wow this was a long thread. Just from going on experience from my teenage son. Throw, throw, and throw some more. Kids do not throw often these days. The son is 13 years old and currently throws 78. At this point last year at 12 he was at 68-70. We threw long toss,Weighted Balls, and worked out the CORE area. His velocity jumped because he worked his butt off.
You are right 14-16 years old is the age where the wannabe's and the true players come out. Dedication and a strong work ethic will get you to where you need to be.
You are right 14-16 years old is the age where the wannabe's and the true players come out. Dedication and a strong work ethic will get you to where you need to be.
Midlo Dad,
Thanks. Yes, it took a lot of hard work and a few lectures (not many) but I think he now finally "gets" it. Letters have been flowing in from colleges and he understands that if wants to be a starter, not just a bench guy, he will have to work his tail off. We're up north and it hasn't been easy.. he long-tosses year-round, even in January.
He's a LHP, so I know he has a chance. I'm lucky because I own a health club so he throws against the racquetball court wall to simulate long-toss. Only a couple of players I can think of actually do that, and it shows when the season starts. He's made HUGE gains..9 MPH in the last year, and has never had arm problems. To get to Division I he needs to add 3-4 more by next year.
Thanks. Yes, it took a lot of hard work and a few lectures (not many) but I think he now finally "gets" it. Letters have been flowing in from colleges and he understands that if wants to be a starter, not just a bench guy, he will have to work his tail off. We're up north and it hasn't been easy.. he long-tosses year-round, even in January.
He's a LHP, so I know he has a chance. I'm lucky because I own a health club so he throws against the racquetball court wall to simulate long-toss. Only a couple of players I can think of actually do that, and it shows when the season starts. He's made HUGE gains..9 MPH in the last year, and has never had arm problems. To get to Division I he needs to add 3-4 more by next year.
I haven't taken the time to read all 97 posts on this thread, so someone may have already posted this.........
I think the most important part of velocity comes from arm speed. More arm speed=more velocity.
That's just my opinion!!
I think the most important part of velocity comes from arm speed. More arm speed=more velocity.
That's just my opinion!!
Arm action is 50% of velocity. Developing proper arm action can yield impressive gains.
Bob Feller did alot of things right. Despite what he calls letting them go.
Getting arm action right takes alot of work. Especially if you're older.
Bob Feller did alot of things right. Despite what he calls letting them go.
Getting arm action right takes alot of work. Especially if you're older.
baseballbum,
Sounds like he must be doing pretty well even against the older kids at those velocities.
Sounds like he must be doing pretty well even against the older kids at those velocities.
Velocity...
http://www.freewebs.com/spiritsajood/
Static Isometric SportsSCience system..
Next year hit 90mph
http://www.freewebs.com/spiritsajood/
Static Isometric SportsSCience system..
Next year hit 90mph
I'm not sure if it's bad to "bump" a thread back up... but I thought some people would get a good laugh at it
