Better yet, are you saying all kids swing it or throw it the same from the first time they pick it up. I think not.
Wouldn't it stand to reason that there is an optimal way and just "swinging it hard" or "throwing it hard" won't get you there.
Takes some independent critical thinking guys.
Just because you prefer to be on the other side of Blue Dog and myself doesn't always mean it's the place to be.
How you use the knowledge available is the key. Yes it can be overstated, and many times to deep and irrelivent for a kid to consume. You need to pick and choose your resourses and then assess the benifets. Enrico Fermi was quoted saying...
At the same time maybe Tom House follows Kurt Vonneguts thoughts....
quote:
It is no good to try to stop knowledge from going forward. Ignorance is never better than knowledge.
At the same time maybe Tom House follows Kurt Vonneguts thoughts....
quote:
New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. The more truth we have to work with, the richer we become.
There is no optimal way. I believe there are optimal (ways). I think the point is there is no substitute for the hard work that the game requires and gizmos and quick fixes are not the answer. Now I do believe that 25 good swings are better than 2,500 bad ones. The key is alot of dads have taught there sons what they know. And these kids have turned out pretty darn good. Get around some respected baseball people that have been around the game and have had success. Learn from them and ask questions. You can not learn anything if you think you know it all. Never let your ego get in the way of questioning what you do. Is there a better way? Is what Im teaching as good as what hes teaching? Could I help them more if I taught that? By keeping an opened mind and expanding your baseball knowledge bank by making contacts and going to clinics etc- you will have more information at your fingertips. When you start thinking that you have all the answers and its your way and thats the only way you and your son or players will not learn anything new. Baseball is a game of ajustments. You can not make those adjustments if you are close minded.
Coach May...Good post
Fungo
Fungo
Blue Dog- I think private instructors can be excellent. I am simply saying that many people assume that doing something differently is always the correct way, or they rely on so-called private instructors to "force" them to be better players. Good instructors can make a world of difference...but paying someone doesn't mean you'll be getting D1 schools drooling over you.
Teacherman- No, I"m not saying that. Instruction is important...but there are many great players who don't PAY for the instruction. You don't NEED to have a private hitting or pitching tutor to become a great player. Good ones help, and the great ones might make a huge difference....but kids and parents expect that lessons automatically mean the kid will be a stud, and if you do in fact teach hitting, you know that's not fair. Some kids are more talented than others, and all the instruction in the world won't get them a pro contract.
*Understand, I don't care if I'm with you or against you...if you show respect for the opinions of others, you're ok by me. If not, you are ignorant, plain and simple.
Teacherman- No, I"m not saying that. Instruction is important...but there are many great players who don't PAY for the instruction. You don't NEED to have a private hitting or pitching tutor to become a great player. Good ones help, and the great ones might make a huge difference....but kids and parents expect that lessons automatically mean the kid will be a stud, and if you do in fact teach hitting, you know that's not fair. Some kids are more talented than others, and all the instruction in the world won't get them a pro contract.
*Understand, I don't care if I'm with you or against you...if you show respect for the opinions of others, you're ok by me. If not, you are ignorant, plain and simple.
quote:
...it may be more important to just feed their sons a diet of pitching, long tossing, and just swinging hard at hundreds of baseballs and whiffle balls...which is basically what I did with my son. ...
This plus knowledge and I agree.
That alone and you're leaving it to chance.
If anything other than hard work and knowledge were so important how can the advent of players from other countries, into baseball, be explained...they certainly do not have the financial ability to afford private instruction nor are they consumned with overwhelming desiire to "name drop"...they have no clue who most of these so-called gurus are...what they do know is that practice, practice, practice may be what will give them the ability to reach their goals
There you have it.
Which is why some of the best coaches I've seen saw themselves foremost as teachers of the game. Yes, there's other attributes that are important in a coach ... but the best I've seen not only told a player what to do, but how to do it and why it's important to do it that way. Then the repetitive practice becomes reinforced with knowledge so it becomes reflex. Whenever my son has had to choose between playing for different club teams, the deciding factor has always been which coach would he learn the most from.
rz1 - the football player your thinking of is Todd Marinovich. I believe he went to college at USC and did have a season or 2 with the Raiders.
He was raised to be a quarterback from the time he could walk including every imaginable training method. His father did everything he could to develop the kid (some say he did far too much) and he did turn into a good quarterback.
Marinovich got sidetracked and basically drugs ran him out of the NFL - he is occasionally in the news and not for good reasons.
Kid may have turned out like this regardless of what his dad did or how his athletic career panned out.
All we can do as parents is give our kids opportunities to succeed and try and guide them down the right path - from there it is up to them.
He was raised to be a quarterback from the time he could walk including every imaginable training method. His father did everything he could to develop the kid (some say he did far too much) and he did turn into a good quarterback.
Marinovich got sidetracked and basically drugs ran him out of the NFL - he is occasionally in the news and not for good reasons.
Kid may have turned out like this regardless of what his dad did or how his athletic career panned out.
All we can do as parents is give our kids opportunities to succeed and try and guide them down the right path - from there it is up to them.
Absolutely correct....Marinovich developed a drug problem........I didn't want to go there, but, I'm glad you did..... 
My point was dads ignorance thinking he knew it all. He may have been good at what he did but he may have been better off letting the kid explore some on his own without dads spoon feeding. Maybe his insecurity is because of his dads obsession and resulted in his immature behavior and drug use. It's a classic behaveral sequence of events, I saw it on Law&Order.
Marinovich, a nice athlete, had the worst throwing motion of any quarterback I've seen.
Very slow, long arm action.
Release was extremely slow.
Great for a pitcher, very poor for a quarterback.
Very slow, long arm action.
Release was extremely slow.
Great for a pitcher, very poor for a quarterback.
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
CoachB25, I was waiting for you to ask because I know this is a concern of yours........
It doesn't happen in successful and resourceful programs such as yours........You don't wear your ego on your sleeve and you can recognize a productive hitter..........These are some of the reasons your program is so successful......My students would fit right in your program and never miss a beat......
I wouldn't change a young man for the sake of change. I would change them when/if they demonstrate that they aren't having success. As I posted before, you don't change a kid until you've had an opportunity to observe the kid and open a line of communication. Then... This seems to work for us. BTW, I don't care if my kid is going to a private instructor or not. I do want the young man working on his game. I will admit to one young man going last year to a prominent private coach in the St. Louis area that told my clean up hitter to stand on his front toe to initiate leg lift. Naturally, the Dad came to me and asked about this. I told him to spend his money how he likes but that he should expect that his son won't be hitting with his lead heel up in the air. That was their last lesson and currently he is playing college ball based upon what this old guy and my assistants taught him.
Teacherman, you again demonstrate that you know nothing about our program when you say that kids just nod their heads while thinking that they are going to do what they and their parents want. When I tell a player to do something, they do it. Otherwise, like cancer, they are removed.
I agree. Instruction is great but there are those that think pay the money and all of a sudden the kid has a scholarship and sniffing the draft.
But sometimes the kid has one person telling him one thing and somebody else another so that can be a problem.
I had a pitcher once who balked twice in one inning. I asked him what was he doing. He said his "private coach" showed him something.
But sometimes the kid has one person telling him one thing and somebody else another so that can be a problem.
I had a pitcher once who balked twice in one inning. I asked him what was he doing. He said his "private coach" showed him something.
Knowledge and work are only a partial part of the equation of success. Take pitching, thumb to the thigh and knuckles to the sky was the old adage. I thougt it was a great teaching tool taken for what it is worth. In fact, it can help start a kid to learn how to get on top of the ball. However, that method/technique is now outdated. There are better ways of helping a player, for lack of a better phrase, load their arm and body to throw. I think that this is the perfect example of what this thread should be about. (In my opinion.) When knowledge changes so rapidly and the technology changes to enable us all to be better pitchers(/hitters/coaches), I found that it was hard to find all of those pitchers going thumb to the thigh and knuckles to the sky. Then, add in the work ethic after the knowledge has been assimilated and then taught and you have a chance for success. Well... Sorry guys, I'm getting cabin fever. Had to get in a few posts.
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
...kids just nod their heads while thinking that they are going to do what they and their parents want.
The height of naivete???
quote:
Originally posted by Teacherman:quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
...kids just nod their heads while thinking that they are going to do what they and their parents want.
The height of naivete???
Believe me, you are demonstrating more than naivete. How about a call out here. If you have any anatomical parts at all, come out in the open. I'll match my success against yours in any area you want.
Ditto
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
...I'll match my success against yours in any area you want.
OK.....how about financial?
There are a very few good hitting instructors.....And, there are many bad ones........You can waste your money and time, or, you can spend it wisely.....Buyer beware........ 
quote:
Originally posted by Teacherman:quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
...I'll match my success against yours in any area you want.
OK.....how about financial?
YOU HAVE TO BE JOKING! I ALREADY TOLD YOU IN A POST AND/OR PM THE LAND WE OWN. UNLESS YOU CAN SELL YOUR LAND BY THE SQUARE FOOT, DON'T EVEN BOTHER. My daughter's college is already paid for. We own our farm, house, cars trucks, horses, horse trailor (matching paint scheme) well what else. So, which Fortel's Pizza Place? I'll be over. Sorry for the rest but the nutless wonder has crossed the line. If any of you wonder about the land, look at a map of Illinois. The spot where Interstates 270, 70 and 55 all hook up, divides our farm in half.
posted by Teacherman:
"how about financial"
huh? what the eff would finances have to do with any of this? geez, teacherman, I usually try to listen with an open mind, but you're really looking like a loser now.
I bet you Blue Dog is even shaking his head at this one...
"how about financial"
huh? what the eff would finances have to do with any of this? geez, teacherman, I usually try to listen with an open mind, but you're really looking like a loser now.
I bet you Blue Dog is even shaking his head at this one...
Really, I apologize to everyone else.
Success that I would gladly compare my accomplishment with Teacherman:
1. Number of High School All-Americans
2. Number of players that have gone on to college.
3. Number of State Titles
4. Number of lesser but still significant titles including Sectionals, Regionals.
5. Number of wins (I've coached in over 650 wins. Albeit it the majority as the Assistant Coach - Major Responsibilities - Hitting Coach)
6. Number of Countries where you have been hired to Coach Baseball.
7. Number of All-State Players
8. Number of consecutive wins in a row (64)
Go ahead Know it all. Now, I know that somewhere along the line you are either going to pm me your id or state it here because NO ONE WOULD ALLOW SOMEONE TO CALL THEM OUT LIKE THIS WITHOUT STEPPING UP.
Success that I would gladly compare my accomplishment with Teacherman:
1. Number of High School All-Americans
2. Number of players that have gone on to college.
3. Number of State Titles
4. Number of lesser but still significant titles including Sectionals, Regionals.
5. Number of wins (I've coached in over 650 wins. Albeit it the majority as the Assistant Coach - Major Responsibilities - Hitting Coach)
6. Number of Countries where you have been hired to Coach Baseball.
7. Number of All-State Players
8. Number of consecutive wins in a row (64)
Go ahead Know it all. Now, I know that somewhere along the line you are either going to pm me your id or state it here because NO ONE WOULD ALLOW SOMEONE TO CALL THEM OUT LIKE THIS WITHOUT STEPPING UP.
You guys are all nuts. 
Coach, is that the word you were looking for?
Coach, is that the word you were looking for?
Big,
LOL
P.S. I was in the chat room the other night - and spoke with Teacherman for quite awhile. He isnt such a bad guy at all IMO. Intense - yes IMO. But seemed to me that his posts are different in many ways than his conversation.
He asked me alot of questions - I tried to answer - then I got tired and drank wine. I'm getting too old for it I guess.
Anyway - I am now going to be "kinder and gentler" to teacherman. I promise.
It is time for diplomacy - a peace offering. A white dove.
I just hope the doggie and teacherman dont bite the doves head off. LOL
LOL
P.S. I was in the chat room the other night - and spoke with Teacherman for quite awhile. He isnt such a bad guy at all IMO. Intense - yes IMO. But seemed to me that his posts are different in many ways than his conversation.
He asked me alot of questions - I tried to answer - then I got tired and drank wine. I'm getting too old for it I guess.
Anyway - I am now going to be "kinder and gentler" to teacherman. I promise.
It is time for diplomacy - a peace offering. A white dove.
I just hope the doggie and teacherman dont bite the doves head off. LOL
I thought it was you against me.
Not we, our, my daddy, my granddaddy, my wife, my wife's daddy etc etc.
Not we, our, my daddy, my granddaddy, my wife, my wife's daddy etc etc.
Teacherman:
If you have any anatomical parts at all, come out in the open.
Go ahead Know it all. Now, I know that somewhere along the line you are either going to pm me your id or state it here because NO ONE WOULD ALLOW SOMEONE TO CALL THEM OUT LIKE THIS WITHOUT STEPPING UP.
Come on you won't change this subject and every poster now knows I'm calling you out.
If you have any anatomical parts at all, come out in the open.
Go ahead Know it all. Now, I know that somewhere along the line you are either going to pm me your id or state it here because NO ONE WOULD ALLOW SOMEONE TO CALL THEM OUT LIKE THIS WITHOUT STEPPING UP.
Come on you won't change this subject and every poster now knows I'm calling you out.
Coach,
I have done many a battle with Teacherman - and his side kick "doggie". All to absolutely no avail. All it did was make me the Ron Artest of the HSBBWEB.
You are spitting into the wind IMO.
Release the white doves.
Make love - not war.
Embrace the kinder and gentler approach.
Its a new era. LOL
I have done many a battle with Teacherman - and his side kick "doggie". All to absolutely no avail. All it did was make me the Ron Artest of the HSBBWEB.
You are spitting into the wind IMO.
Release the white doves.
Make love - not war.
Embrace the kinder and gentler approach.
Its a new era. LOL
I don't see any denial.
Is it yours' or the "family's."
You build it.........or inherit it?
Come clean.
Is it yours' or the "family's."
You build it.........or inherit it?
Come clean.
You're right. A zebra doesn't change it's stripes and you can't show them if you don't have them.
I'm off the Leacherman! BTW, must be something to live your life that way.
I'm off the Leacherman! BTW, must be something to live your life that way.
Name calling????? Is that you coach?
Still no denial.
Maybe that is the real source of anger.
Still no denial.
Maybe that is the real source of anger.
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
Success that I would gladly compare my accomplishment with Teacherman:
1. Number of High School All-Americans
2. Number of players that have gone on to college.
3. Number of State Titles
4. Number of lesser but still significant titles including Sectionals, Regionals.
5. Number of wins (I've coached in over 650 wins. Albeit it the majority as the Assistant Coach - Major Responsibilities - Hitting Coach)
6. Number of Countries where you have been hired to Coach Baseball.
7. Number of All-State Players
8. Number of consecutive wins in a row (64)
Still no denial.
1. Worth a great deal personally and an attaboy financially.
2. ditto
3. ditto
4. ditto
5. ditto
6. ditto
7. ditto
8. ditto
How does this and a several years of a teachers salary add up to all this land?
Daddy worked real hard didn't he.
The next thing one of you'll be bragging that your car gets better gas mileage or comparing the size of your .......... shoes?
Too funny except for at least a couple of reasons.
1. There's bound to be some young people here that think that think you guys are serious.
2. After reading your posts the past year or so, I have feeling if the few of us sat down for a pepsi, we'd probably get along ok.
Too funny except for at least a couple of reasons.
1. There's bound to be some young people here that think that think you guys are serious.
2. After reading your posts the past year or so, I have feeling if the few of us sat down for a pepsi, we'd probably get along ok.
Teacherman, most of your posts don't bother me, but I feel that you are crossing the line here. Pls reconsider. Also, I'm still annoyed at your sarcastic comment to Tx Mom who was genuinly wishing you well. A lot of people have tried to have decent conversations with you. Why not go with that?
Are you Rshard? If so, I saw a different side to you in some PM's a year or so ago. One you could converse with without fear of a huge battle.
"Blessed be the Peacemakers". I'm trying.
Are you Rshard? If so, I saw a different side to you in some PM's a year or so ago. One you could converse with without fear of a huge battle.
"Blessed be the Peacemakers". I'm trying.
This thread is dead. 'bout time for the ole padlock. Don't ya think?
Peacemakers cease and desist, please.
Gotta new puppy in the house. New puppy has been driving the old dog nuts, eating his food, biting at his tail and such and the old dog just puts up token resistance. Well I've been waiting several weeks for that old dog to say enough is enough doggy style. So today I'm sitting at my computer and I hear a death cry from the puppy and the old dog is just sitting there with a grin only a dog can get. So what does my wife do, admonishes the old dog! I say...hon, I've been waiting a long time for that old dog to set things straight...why pick on him? If anything double down on the puppy. Same thing here. Let's all quit tap dancing around trying to avoid what must be done. Go ahead B25, he needs a good cyber *** kickin. Do it and do us all a favor!
Ok, I'm outta here on my way to a wrestling match where a guy can really get aggressive.
This post is strickly for humor and the poster does not advocate cyber violence in any form...unless Teacherman goes after me!
Gotta new puppy in the house. New puppy has been driving the old dog nuts, eating his food, biting at his tail and such and the old dog just puts up token resistance. Well I've been waiting several weeks for that old dog to say enough is enough doggy style. So today I'm sitting at my computer and I hear a death cry from the puppy and the old dog is just sitting there with a grin only a dog can get. So what does my wife do, admonishes the old dog! I say...hon, I've been waiting a long time for that old dog to set things straight...why pick on him? If anything double down on the puppy. Same thing here. Let's all quit tap dancing around trying to avoid what must be done. Go ahead B25, he needs a good cyber *** kickin. Do it and do us all a favor!
Ok, I'm outta here on my way to a wrestling match where a guy can really get aggressive.
This post is strickly for humor and the poster does not advocate cyber violence in any form...unless Teacherman goes after me!
amom.....
Teacherman = rshard, along with several others, but who's counting. Richard doesn't play well with others, unless you're buying a pizza at his pizza store.
....and soon there will be games, which should elliminate this cabin fever. Good luck to all the young men, this spring. Ain't life grand?
Be good,
David
Teacherman = rshard, along with several others, but who's counting. Richard doesn't play well with others, unless you're buying a pizza at his pizza store.
....and soon there will be games, which should elliminate this cabin fever. Good luck to all the young men, this spring. Ain't life grand?
Be good,
David
What has money got to do with it? This is the HS Baseball web right? Personally as long as I can provide for my family I could careless about money. That might sound ridiculous to some of you but I could careless. I have things in my life that are far more important to me than money. Things that money can not buy. The reason I have coached for so long and if the good lord lets me I will keep on is the relationships I have built with my players. And my love of the game and the competition. I dont judge the worth of a man by what he has, I judge the worth of a man by what he does for others.
quote:
Originally posted by Teacherman:
Name calling????? Is that you coach?
Still no denial.
Maybe that is the real source of anger.
For someone that is Eunuch, sorry, unique you're doing your best to change the subject. What still no location so I can come to get some pizza?