Leg drive, what else happens after?

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:
....probably. Midlo Dad has apparently found (or is uniquely aware,) of where the body is controlled; that's why I said what I did. In your analysis, you're putting the cart before the horse. Midlo Dad has illustrated (to me) that he knows that the center of the body dictates commands to the extremities, not the other way around. That knowledge helps improve velocity to the max. Conversely, the extremities dictating what the core does limits velocity to the mid 80's.

Thanks for the explanation. I actually agree with what you're saying. I always put the focus on getting the center of mass moving - not "lengthening the stride" because there are wrong ways to lengthen the stride. Focusing on getting the center of mass moving usually results in a longer stride the "proper way".

I also agree with what you said about the push. I believe there is a slight, linear, sideways push to initiate movement toward home plate at the very beginning of the delivery. As the body gets moving, the push tapers off. And as it tapers off it turns into a rotational push. There is no push-off later in the delivery. Would you agree with this description?

By the way, you know I'm a House guy I'm sure but this is one area with I don't agree with him. He has said there is no push. I just can't see that being the case. As you pointed out, lifing the front foot to create an imbalance and letting gravity take control just won't get you moving as soon or as fast as is necessary to achieve enough momentum to create a long stride.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
His landing foot is almost at full contact with the ground when he starts to go forward.

Bobble, doesn't that cause him to delay forward motion of his center of mass? I'm thinking he could start forward sooner.

quote:

You could clearly see the drive occurs when he is out over the front leg and not off the rubber.

Actually, I think he could get out over his front leg even more with a bit more momentum. One checkpoint that I use is to look for the front foot, front knee, and chin aligned vertically at release. Another checkpoint I use is for the release point to be out in front of that vertical alignment. In the video, it looks like his weight stays behind the front foot and his release point ends up about even with the front foot instead of in front of it.

Just something for you to consider.

He cruises at 85 so he isn't a hard thrower. He has developed slowly but his 1st 2 years of college were excellent. As a Soph he was second in stats out of 17 pitchers and had 10 pickoffs. Lowest OBA.
The last few games he started to lose it and went through the summer collegiate and college spring in his JR year and was awful. They streamed his games last year and I saw what was happening. He started to drop his elbow to whip the ball through and increase his velocity. He also was falling off to the 3rd B side and destroyed his alignment. Velocity dropped about 3-4 mph. He also mentioned tightness in his shoulder for the 1st time ever.
The remedy was simle and took me 5 mins and I didn't have to say much. Get the elbow back up, stride directly at the plate with a full stride, drive when so that your chest is out over the stride leg and if you have to fall ,fall stright at the plate. Within a few throws he said he felt better, was on top of the ball and keeping it down. The CBs were breaking sharper and later and he gained his velo back.
So fae this year he has been like his old self. He approached the new P coach with my concerns and to keep an eye on these elements. His 1st 3 innings he struck out 3 and no base runners. The most recent 2 innings he thre 5 pitches the 1st inning striking out 1. The 2nd inning he gave up a hr and then struck out the side.
TPM I thought you said it very well. Better than I was.
The only reason I "push" this idea is because of young pitchers hearing this and it is important to understand. It was one of the things I learned years ago. The other is that mechanics are about controlling your body. There are probably things that my son could do to improve his velocity a bit but he is doing what he feels is natural. He doesn't wrap his knee back as far as some but he was always taught straight up and staright down and out and that is impossible with a big leg wrap.
One of the questions I asked him about last year was how many pick offs he had and he said zero. I asked him how many he had in his soph year and he got the message. His mechanics made him a better pitcher overall. He is also in a fielding position when he finishes. The video doesn't show that because the mound is too narrow.

I can rememeber probably 90-95% of evry BB game my son has played over the years. I also remember things like telephone numbers and what people say for years. Clients are amazed when they call and I remember conversations we had 5 years earlier.

I I am also an old geezer now. BB wasn't even my 1st love before my son forced me into it. I was a football guy.

Roger I just saw your comments.
Over the years I have noticed that he pitches better with a slight hesitation before coming forward. Better breaking ball. Later and sharper. Also a killer pick off move.
If the mound was wider you would see him righyt over the knee. Just before the back leg lifts you would see his body at a 45% angle .
The coach for the provincial team used him to show the guys what they should look lik before the back leg kicked up. You will also see his back leg reach a point where a line drawn down from his foot while at max height is a straight line downd to the plant foot. That is because every thing he has is going to the plate. He actually finishes lower than on that video with his had sweeping past his calf. He also releases way out front.

IRoder I noticed you post to Midlo. My son's stride is long and as you see his decent down the mound is more gravity than push. His body weight is moving while he is in the spread eagle mode.
I don't think house meant no push at all but it is a reactionary push and not a body propelling push. It stabslizes the body as you load and start to unravel you upper body. You need something to push against to max your inload.
Your lower bady is in essemce a fulrum around which your upper body rotates and unloads.

Bobble...

I poked around for a minute and found the thread you were referring to:

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1491034941/m/7821004651/p/1

Whoa, Mr. Bobblehead, I didn't know that he was your son. My apologies on my previous post about his motion. And man 6'3'' when he was 17, that's big.

Bobble-

quote:

You wanted to sign him up.
PG said he was beautiful.

I didn't think so, that's not my style and my ego certainly isn't that big.....and so much for that memory thing I started out here as a favor for the owner, not to teach.


Stonecutter-

quote:

Wow, who is it and how hard does he throw? I don't think I like that delivery a lot...Whoa, Mr. Bobblehead, I didn't know that he was your son. My apologies on my previous post about his motion.

Don't worry, you were justified with your response. Besides, that's the chance you take when posting on the net.....criticism can be brutal for some. Others use it constructively.



Too bad this thread was hijacked...so back to the original poster. What you're trying to do is not all that hard for lightweights. Look real close at Lincecum. His hip rotation is more of a reaction to landing. He keeps them closed and appears to use the huge forward momentum from the leap to propel his hips and open them at a higher rate of rotation.

Cap n your comment was in a PM. and Shepster said it in the thread. If I remember Shepster was a scout or he claimed to be one.

How is it Brutal. I wasn't affended. Mys on has a great D1 scholarship and has had most of his college paid for.
He has pitched scoreless innings against Florida State, U South Carolina,and several other great D1 schools. I expect critzism here and would be dissapointed if I didn't get it.
Also consider the fact that a guy who throws a sub par FB gets 25 or more colleges knocking on his door and gets offers from colleges that only saw his DVD. Not sure why I would be offended by a comment on an internet site.
I know that there are lots of opinions. Ill take the cash. Which was increased by $2000. last spring. Some one loves him besides his mom and dad..

Bobbleheaddoll-

On this site it was never my intention to instruct or promote anyone....it isn't my style. And out of respect for your son, I would never comment about his mechanics unless I was contacted off line which I'm pretty sure you didn't do. As a rule, I don't want to get involved unless I read something that really isn't good. In this case, Midlo Dad stepped in and offered some really good insight, so much so, most readers won't understand unless they actually get out and throw when they teach to the tune of 20K+ throws. And even then, former teenage to college to pro ball players still don't know what it is they do. There in lies the satisfaction I get when they finally "get it" and they tell me they "finally get it." It's those people that can help their kids understand even better.

I was using the "brutal" statement as a general term for anyone (not particularly you) who posts and ask advice on the net....things could get brutal if'n ya don't hear what you want to hear.

For the rest of it, I have absolutely no idea about your son or you and what you guys have going. In that area, I am clueless. I don't deal with sub par pitching. I am committed to the student throwing as hard as they possibly can and doing it this way in an efficient manner in order to stay healthy. I do not instruct on how to be a pitcher.

So if your son is successful and you're saving some $, what more could you ask for???

Have great games!

I understand exactly where you come from. I was not promoting my son on this site. I promoted him to target Universities and we already had several offers from D1 JCs NAIA and D1s.
I was promoting good mechanics and I know there are lots of myths out there. What I have learned is from P coaches who are in the ML and MiLB. I didn't invent these things but had them explained to me. I like Midlos' and TPM's explanation.
I and my son are very comfortable with his situation. He has pro scouts that have followed him for a few years and yes velo is their main interest.
Having been around MiLB for several years I am not sure I want him to go there and would prefer he finds something to do he really enjoys and can have a normal life. We have never been chasing that dream. His goal was to play D1 against some top teams and he did that. More importantly was to have 4 great years of college life and he has done that for 3 years so far.

That was sub par FB not sub par pitching and this differentiation you don't seem to have figured out

quote:

That was sub par FB not sub par pitching and this differentiation you don't seem to have figured out

....my error, sub par FB is what I meant to reply.