Let's hear your input on Fall Ball

In some areas, teams that just happen to be formed along the lines of HS teams will play a game or two during the week for a couple of months in the fall. A dad or two will coach the team. And as you pointed out, this still allows the players to participate with their select teams in weekend tourneys.

Where I have seen this, it seemed to be mostly the JV players and V bench players on the teams. Not all of the boys did select.

In the boondocks of East Texas most of the high schools are in a league that plays on Saturday afternoons - playing during the week is not an option because so many of our players (my son included) play football (remember, this is East Texas). I am coaching our fall high school team. My son is going to try to make a few weekend tournaments but at this point we are not sure how that is going to work out. Actually we haven't even heard from his summer team as to what their plans are for the fall.

He is a QB so he needs to limit his pitching to 50 pitches a weekend anyway or else his arm will be too sore to throw Monday at practice.

We have a varsity and JV team that plays DH in the fall in a league. 95% of the kids in the program play on these teams. About 25-50% of those kids also play on select teams on the weekend.

The more they play the better they get.

Swing,

I think in cases where the High School has a fall team this would work great (varsity) level and maybe some JV. I think most varsity level players would like to stay with there school teams, but get conflicts with Showcases during the fall.

This would allow those that wish to participate with both, the option to do so. To some, you may have created a solution to a fall problem.

I'm just thinking that if you do carry a big squad then when the recruits are off at showcases or select tournaments then the guys that need PT are there already and your team isn't robbing from the fall JV squad to keep from forfieting a couple of games. Of course the easy way out is to tell em all to go find a fall team and I'll see ya Monday.

I think the Arlington A's put on a fall league for high school teams. http://www.arlingtonas.us/

The Highschool that my son goes to plays fall ball on Saturday only (DH every Saturday for 7 Saturday's). The reason they only play on Saturday's is to allow football players to participate in the baseball games.

The fall ball team/s, is two teams, an "older" and "younger" team.

My opinion (what I have learned from those more experienced), is for freshman and Sophmores the school fall team is important for exposure to their HS coaches. For Jr. senior a select few Sophmores (played varsity as freshman), fall showcases are very important. As a matter of fact, starting with a boys Jr. year and all the way through the summer after the Jr. year, this is the most crucial time to gain exposure to colleges.

quote:

My opinion (what I have learned from those more experienced), is for freshman and Sophmores the school fall team is important for exposure to their HS coaches. For Jr. senior a select few Sophmores (played varsity as freshman), fall showcases are very important. As a matter of fact, starting with a boys Jr. year and all the way through the summer after the Jr. year, this is the most crucial time to gain exposure to colleges.

The above is true. The only thing that I would add is that I wanted my son to play where he could get the most playing time and the best competition. Playing on a younger team and playing weaker competition did not do it for us. Ingratiating ourselves to the coach was not high on our priority list. As long as he was aware that my son was playing top competition, I felt he would get a fair look. jmo

I honestly believed that playing the tougher competition was the best thing for the team in the long run and would help him perform better in the hs season.

quote:

Originally posted by Bighit15:
The above is true. The only thing that I would add is that I wanted my son to play where he could get the most playing time and the best competition. Playing on a younger team and playing weaker competition did not do it for us. Ingratiating ourselves to the coach was not high on our priority list. As long as he was aware that my son was playing top competition, I felt he would get a fair look. jmo

I honestly believed that playing the tougher competition was the best thing for the team in the long run and would help him perform better in the hs season.

Bighit, I agree 100%. The tougher the competition, i.e. competition you play against and the competition within the team for playing time, is what will drive the good players to the next level.

Can someone tell me if a retired BB coach from the school he coached at, coach the fall baseball team. He is retired,has no keen playing on the team. I for one would thing this would be a win win situation for everyone

Time,

Not sure what message you are trying to communicate, but try spell check and maybe we can get it. I'll let the retired BB coach speak for himself, but I would think he would like to enjoy his retirement...

I agree with Bighit... Tougher competition is the priority.
Son's team will be doing college showcase circuit & WWBA in Oct.
IF (and that's a tall order) the HS's could come up with something that was on the same level as select, along with coaches of the same caliber as select coaches, then it would be a good thing.
What does UIL have to say about it? Or do they matter? That would be the "broken" cog in the wheel.

Paula, I would like to meet you in Florida and treat you to a hot dog.

Keep me informed.

Okee Dokee!!
How bout an Ice cream?...Hot dogs give me indigestion in a bad way!! I'd belch it for the next 3 days!!

There is a visual. Anything you want. I will bring Eric with me. Instructs should be over with (hopefully).

So tell us - Just how important are those on-campus fall showcase / mini tournaments to a Junior? Are the college coaches really in attendance? Are they busy looking to fill a last few spots before Nov? Or is that when they start looking at the Juniors? Or none of the above?

tournaments are being played on college campuses. Some coaches from other schools & pro scouts usually are in attendance...So, for some players, it may be important. For others, it's an opportunity to play more ball.

Our HS coach does not encourage a lot of fall ball and encourages strength training instead. He feels the kids need a break. However, our summer select team plays fall ball as well. We too will be at the WWBA tournament in Florida. The competition remains high all the way until HS ball starts in February. Many players from our HS teams, Sophomore, JV, and Varsity play on fall select teams. Maybe that has helped with our HS playoff success.

HS coaches I know are aware that their top line pitchers are gonna face better comp. on the weekend and let their 3-4-5 get the innings during the week. Our program thought that it was beneficial for the HS players to meld during the fall and develop trust in everyone being on the same page. We saw it as a spring board into the Spring season. Answers are gonna vary on this because coaches have a 60 line agenda were as parents and players might have a one line agenda. Sometimes success in the spring will bring the offers in as well. The Rock had 8 sign this year.

Just curious. In your opinion, how many of those 8 would have signed had they not participated on a select team in the summer or fall? Assuming they did, of course.

All 8 played on our HS fall team and 3 played in showcases, when scheduled, instead of fall weekend double headers. All 8 were available during week night games played during the fall. I truely believe it adds to team chemistry and team concept. It's a sacrafice, but our players have always made it, following those who set the example years ago. It gave those involved 16-18 abs a week rather than 8-10. Pitchers will get their work if the coach is attending and he has his guys aware to just say NO when asked to take the ball and they don't need to.

It's worked well for you guys at Rockwall. Too bad more hs coaches don't put as much effort into their programs and kids instead of being hostile toward them playing on a select team.

That philosophy evolved over the years with results feeding off each other. Better players get the better select opportunities and raise the level of those around them. Im 53 and learned something from a manager just this year. Lessons can be brought and taught from all angles. There isn't anyone that knows it all and if he says he does beware.

quote:

It's worked well for you guys at Rockwall. Too bad more hs coaches don't put as much effort into their programs and kids instead of being hostile toward them playing on a select team.

ditto!!! Maybe it has to do with them being football coaches!

Fall teams about $500-$600 for 30-50 games. Here's the BBI link for HS fall program, just in case some of our HS Coaches are reading... http://www.bbidallas.org/fall05.htm


I've found too many parents that "don't get it" & complain about having to pay anything!! (even $125 for summer HS team). Some have even asked if "booster club" could fund it.
Some coaches don't get that hosting showcase tournaments could raise a few hundred for their program...Some don't have the "connections"... Some don't have the interest in helping their players...or see the connection in preparing more of the players for Spring...

Regarding the possibility of over pitching, players need to take more responsibility for this issue...If they don't understand what they are doing to their future, then they may create problems for themselves & their team...
Son has never had this problem, He & Coach watch his pitch count & interum rest closely.

And, too many of the better athletes, unfortunately, are involved with football ...

2 other teams that have pioneered the way are Lake Highlands & Bellaire off Season...Would be great if more would get on board...

This is my opinion and only 1 way of looking at it.

Any baseball coach that knows what he is doing, or ever played the game, knows that the only way of getting better is to play. I have my kids in a Tuesday night league. The team we field in the spring, will play this fall together. Swingdoc is right, the team chemistry benefits are immeasureable.

Now having said that, unless there are financial restraints, I don't understand why the rest of my kids WOULD NOT want to play on a weekend select team.

Since I do not have to coach football, I am there every Tuesday watching them. On the weekends, when my daughters activities are finished, I go and watch them on their select teams when they are around.

Swing doc, I don't have my program at the level of the Rock quite yet after 1 season. But, the days of 1-26, 0-14 in district are well behind these kids and they know it. When they fully trust each other, they will achieve their goals. The only way for that to happen, is for them to play together as much as possible.

Funneldrill, I know that HS coaches can't be in dugout/coach summer or fall teams but, can the HS coach make reccomendations on who is on the summer or fall school teams?

baseballmom....what's wrong with football!!!

I have to admit, this time of year I am getting pumped about the upcoming HS football season. This is TEXAS and there is NOTHING like Friday nights in the fall at the football stadium.

My son is a very dedicated baseball player and there is no doubt that football takes away from his fall baseball activities. However his football coach is very supportive of his baseball playing and even let him miss some 2 a days this past week to play in McKinney. Back in my day I would never have even had the nerve to ask the coach if I could miss a football practice to play baseball.

That being said he is going to play with the HS baseball team in the local HS fall league and try to play with a select team in at least a couple of showcases. He does have to watch his arm because he plays QB on the football team.

I will also say this about football - my son is convinced that playing football makes him a better baseball player - especially a better pitcher. The physical challenges that football requires plus the intense off season program his coaches put the football team through help in baseball according to him. He thinks football is a great complement to baseball.

Kirk,

According to the UiL, the HS coach IS NOT SUPPOSED TO have any say or influence regarding the make up the summer or fall teams.

Thanks Funneldrill. I just talked with a very good friend of mine, former TX HS coach, and he told me that the coach can have input. He even went as far to say, team can hold tryouts and the HS coach can be there a make rec's from the tryout.

I know you are a HS coach and I am not questioning just passing along other info I had heard.

crawdad...
To each his own...
I have never cared for football, personally. And after an RL Turner player was paralyzed a year ago, I hate it!
IMO, Baseball is a game for thinking, anticipating, out strategizing & luck!
Football is just "brute"...the mentality is entirely different.
Off season football training is not pitcher training...No baseball person would agree with the standard "training fair" of football for a pitcher. It is totally counter productive to the "loose arm" required for pitching.
We are fortunate at sons' school to have a former minor league pitcher as Asst. Coach. My son uses Jaeger program & Yankees pitchers program, along with a speed training program.
Perhaps Bighit, OPP, & a few other pitcher parents could weigh in on this...Shane Wallace, Paula Thorpe (Newman Smith alum & pro pitchers for Cardinals & Yankees), Zach Duke & Eric Ridener helped us figure this out, among others.

Sorry for my part in the "highjack" of the thread...
Lets get back to fall baseball.

quote:

Perhaps Bighit, OPP, & a few other pitcher parents could weigh in on this...Shane Wallace, Paula Thorpe (Newman Smith alum & pro pitchers for Cardinals & Yankees), Zach Duke & Eric Ridener helped us figure this out, among others.

Thorp might take exception to you referring to him as Paula..... but I won't tell. Thanks for the laugh!

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High School Injuries Per Sport 1989-2004
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High School

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Cross-country 4,063,203 Participants...........10 Fatal............2 Serious

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Football 21,302,466 Participants................61 Fatal..........375 Serious

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S****r 5,263,083 Participants ..................4 Fatal.........36 Serious

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Baseball 14,459,344 Participants................6 Fatal.........59 Serious

OPPS!!!
Thanks for the correction, I'm not good at typing or proofreading! Just a habit... 50 some odd year habit!! Just with this post, I've had 4 typos...

(ps..., as an aside, see post in general forum "Sad State of Affairs)

baseballmama...
A football QB has a different weight lifting regimen than a football lineman.
In addition, you obviously missed the Dallas Morning News feature article in the Sports Section last year about all of the top DFW high school pitchers who also played football, and specifically QB. To a man they all stated how football increased their mental and physical toughness and that it DID translate directly to their baseball season.

I am just telling you what my son says - that football helps him in baseball. While I can't say that I enjoy watching him get planted into the turf, I do respect him for having the guts to go out there and do it.

Hey Crawdad,
This is Budd's dad. How are you?
Have you heard anything about fall?
The grapevine's telling me there's a coaching change.

quote:

Originally posted by SGDad:
Hey Crawdad,
This is Budd's dad. How are you?
Have you heard anything about fall?
The grapevine's telling me there's a coaching change.

Is Tim not coaching now that the Dallas Dodgers have been combined with the Mustangs??

Mustang 16's, from what I can gather.

Dodgers and Mustangs combined ? All teams ?