How many high schools in "Out There", USA?
Originally Posted by Cheesy Curve:
Ice: Personally I always iced after the game however it was normally 10 on 20 off twice throughout college. I find this a coaching and personal choice. We have two pitchers who do not everyone else does. Our pitchers rarely throw more than 1 game a week as starters and usually come back as a reliever which is one of our attempts to protect arms. Cooling the arm after a game seems to be important for recovery. The overwhelming majority of trainers and orthopedics I have had contact with do not consider it a valid study, feeling tests need to be larger in scope when it come to basic recovery.
To what study are you referring? I personally don't know of any actual studies. The idea that icing is detremental to recovery is based on research which shows what happens physically when ice is applied. It reduces swelling by constricting blood flow in the capallaries that service muscles, tendons, and ligaments. This alleviates pain and swelling, but hinders recovery time. Inflammation is the body's attempt to repair damaged muscles and ligaments. Now, if you've done extensive damage like a sprained ankle or broken leg, then alleviating the swelling in order to alleviate the pain and slow the flow of blood - which in drastic cases is much greater than with normal muscle use - is medically beneficial as the need to alleviate the swelling and pain greatly outweighs any small reduction in recovery time associated with icing. However, for normal arm discomfort (soreness) associated with normal pitching activity, ice makes little sense as the discomfort isn't anyhting unbearable and is just a sign that the body is repairing small damage to itself. I used to have my kid use ibuprofin for such pain, but have discontinued due to some research on the dangers of consistent use of NSAIDs. There is an argument for icing that contends that after a certain period of time (around 15-20 minutes) of icing, the blood vessels actually adjust by dilating and then provide more blood flow. However, most icing programs for arms don't advise keeping the ice on for that long, so this benefit, known as the "Hunting effect," never comes into play. In the end, though, I doubt icing delays recovery to any degree that would make me tell a kid that actually believes it helps that he needs to stop.
Originally Posted by roothog66:
I don't see an abundance of kids throwing high eighties in high school. Even looking at reports from PBR events in several states, I don't see a lot of high eighties to nineties. Most good programs will have at least three guys throwing 85+, but there are a lot of programs with only one or two. My son is at a 3A school in Colorado and they dominate with three guys throwing 83-85. In addition, I know of only one other 3A program in our state that can match that. A few of the 5A schools will have bigger numbers. Here in Colorado, I can only name about five or six guys that throw 90's. However, I think many look at the big Florida/Georgia/California/texas schools like where Boltz's kids play and get the idea that this is the norm. It's not. In fact, I watched three D1 games this weekend outside the top conferences. What I saw was a lot of pitchers throwing low eighties and high seventies. In fact, watching the lafayett-Navy game, neither starter got above 83mph and routinely threw at 78-79.
Root was this on ESPN or something? I was shocked when I gunned some D2 pitchers in the 70's recently. I just don't understand. How hard is it to throw 80mph? It's the mph between say 83 and 90 that are really hard to get. And Cheesy my school has 1200. Big enough school just little or no interest in baseball. And a state tournament without a guy over 85? That is really hard to imagine. In illinois (unless the system has changed) eight teams would go 'downstate'. I wonder if there was ever a year without a guy over 85. My alma mater and the first school I coached at has three at 87 plus and two of those in the 90's. They pretty routinely have at least one guy in the 90's since about 1976. And many years of multiple 90mph guys. It would be facinating to know the velocity of every single D1 pitcher.
Originally Posted by jolietboy:
Originally Posted by roothog66:
I don't see an abundance of kids throwing high eighties in high school. Even looking at reports from PBR events in several states, I don't see a lot of high eighties to nineties. Most good programs will have at least three guys throwing 85+, but there are a lot of programs with only one or two. My son is at a 3A school in Colorado and they dominate with three guys throwing 83-85. In addition, I know of only one other 3A program in our state that can match that. A few of the 5A schools will have bigger numbers. Here in Colorado, I can only name about five or six guys that throw 90's. However, I think many look at the big Florida/Georgia/California/texas schools like where Boltz's kids play and get the idea that this is the norm. It's not. In fact, I watched three D1 games this weekend outside the top conferences. What I saw was a lot of pitchers throwing low eighties and high seventies. In fact, watching the lafayett-Navy game, neither starter got above 83mph and routinely threw at 78-79.
Root was this on ESPN or something? I was shocked when I gunned some D2 pitchers in the 70's recently. I just don't understand. How hard is it to throw 80mph? It's the mph between say 83 and 90 that are really hard to get. And Cheesy my school has 1200. Big enough school just little or no interest in baseball. And a state tournament without a guy over 85? That is really hard to imagine. In illinois (unless the system has changed) eight teams would go 'downstate'. I wonder if there was ever a year without a guy over 85. My alma mater and the first school I coached at has three at 87 plus and two of those in the 90's. They pretty routinely have at least one guy in the 90's since about 1976. And many years of multiple 90mph guys. It would be facinating to know the velocity of every single D1 pitcher.
I watched two of the games on one of the off-the-wall CBS stations. Both were Patriot league, I believe. Also, earlier in the year, I watched the Jackson State vs. Grambling game on MLB and was amazed that, of the five pitchers in that game, they broke 80 about five times total between them. Of course, that isn't D1, but still...I imagine there are a lot of HS kids out there throwing low-to-mid eighties that just don't do anything to get exposure and maybe I'm just seeing some good pitchers who happen to throw lower velocity and did a good job of promoting themselves to smaller schools.
I've added a link to the report from this year's Colorado All-State PBR showcase. This event attracted, from my review of the list, the vast majority of the best 2016 and later pitchers in the state. It doesn't include many 2015s and I do know of five 2015s throwing in the nineties. However, notice that only two touch 90 (and barely, at that) and few hit 85+.
The school I am at has just at around 650 students meaning lots more 2/3
sport athletes and we don't get a lot of sick nasty athletes out for
baseball and rarely have much on the bench. Historically our head coach
has done rather well. We are trying to change the culture a little and get
more kids involved.
sport athletes and we don't get a lot of sick nasty athletes out for
baseball and rarely have much on the bench. Historically our head coach
has done rather well. We are trying to change the culture a little and get
more kids involved.
Here's another example from a PBR scouting report from a game this weekend concerning the #17 rated 2016 pitcher in the state:
Ranked No. 49 in the 2016 class. 5-foot-9, 170 pound RHP has a bull-dog attitude
on mound and carries himself with confidence and swagger. Does a good job
holding runners on. Fastball was consistently 80-82 but we have had him 83-84
last fall. Has a nasty change-up coming in at 73 with sink. CB was 63 mph from
11/5 angle. Throws a slider at 67 mph. Delivery is max effort and deceiving from
a short 10/5 arm slot. Was 1.22 from home to first with runners on base.
I've found numerous examples (and I'll make this the last), but here is the scouting report from last week on a 2016 RHP already commited to Army:
Committed to West Point and currently ranked No. 59 in the 2016 class. 6-foot-1,
180-pounds, Fastball sat 83-84 MPH in the zone with good run. Breaking ball has
tight break, 78 MPH. Changeup sat 76-77 MPH. Pitched 3 very effective innings in
relief
Originally Posted by roothog66:
I've found numerous examples (and I'll make this the last), but here is the scouting report from last week on a 2016 RHP already commited to Army:
Committed to West Point and currently ranked No. 59 in the 2016 class. 6-foot-1,
180-pounds, Fastball sat 83-84 MPH in the zone with good run. Breaking ball has
tight break, 78 MPH. Changeup sat 76-77 MPH. Pitched 3 very effective innings in
relief
Where do you get the scouting report from? Who makes them public? Scouts have been at our games...would be interested to see what they are writing.
Originally Posted by steeeeerike:
Originally Posted by roothog66:
I've found numerous examples (and I'll make this the last), but here is the scouting report from last week on a 2016 RHP already commited to Army:
Committed to West Point and currently ranked No. 59 in the 2016 class. 6-foot-1,
180-pounds, Fastball sat 83-84 MPH in the zone with good run. Breaking ball has
tight break, 78 MPH. Changeup sat 76-77 MPH. Pitched 3 very effective innings in
relief
Where do you get the scouting report from? Who makes them public? Scouts have been at our games...would be interested to see what they are writing.
In these cases, from PBR's scouts. You have to pay extra for access to the reports ($10/mo, but cheaper by the year). They provide a good service (think of them as PG-lite, though bigger here in Colorado than PG), so I won't begrudge them the ability to make a little money off the reports.
