LHP pick off to first base

Absolutely true. It is also true that stepping towards 1st is 45 degrees.

What is absolutely true? That a pitcher must step directly to first, or that he can use a 45 degree line between first and home? How is stepping directly to first a 45 degree move? It would seem to me that a step directly at first base would be a zero degree move, whereas a step directly to the plate would be 90 degrees. Maybe I am misunderstanding something.

wouldn't steping to first be a 90 degree step?

either way doesn't appear to be a 45?

I wish I could draw a picture. The field is 4 90 degree quadrants. A line stright off the rubber is the starting point for the 90 degree quadran between home plate. Stepping towards 1st is roughly half way or 45 degrees.
I know you guys are pulling my leg.

Your head must be Bobbling tonight, Doll. Here's the geometry of it.

The infield could be divided into four quadrants by drawing two line segments, one from the point of home plate through the center of 2nd base, and the other from the back left corner of 3rd base through the back right corner of 1st base. The point of intersection of those two lines would be the vertex of four right angles (90 degrees each).

But the pitcher's rubber is not at the intersection point. It is actually about 3' closer to home than that intersection point is. Because of this, a LHP stepping "directly" to 1st would actually be stepping at an obtuse angle to the line to home plate, i.e., at an angle greater than 90 degrees. And he can't actually do this without balking since if his right foot goes behind the rubber that's a balk under a different facet of the rule.

In any event I've always understood 45 degrees to be the rule, though I think by 45 degrees they mean to refer to the halfway angle, which would actually be a smidge greater than 45 degrees.

But generally, the idea is that you have to step MORE towards 1st than towards home. That's why the umpires leave their protractors at home and do it by sight and judgment.

I don't believe there is any NFHS rule that mentions the 45-degree thing. There's only a rule that mentions stepping toward the bag you're throwing to. Now, as Midlo Dad said, it's a judgement call on behalf of the umpire and, if you unlucky enough to only have only one umpire, then stepping off at 45 degrees may look like you're stepping toward 1B from behind the plate.

Here is what the PBUC Umpire Manual (a recognized authority on rules interpretations) says:

"6.6 Stepping to a base.
The pitcher, while touching the rubber, must step directly toward a base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off his free foot without actually stepping, it is a balk.
In stepping to a base, the pitcher must lift his entire non-pivot foot off the ground and bring it down in a location different from where it started and toward the base. The entire non-pivot foot must move in a direction toward and distance to the base. This will constitute a step. He is not allowed to lift his non-pivot foot up and bring it back down in the same spot where it started. In stepping, the heel of his free foot may not end up in the same spot it started."

Jaksa/Roder say:
"A step to a base must have distance and direction to that base.
(a) Distance: In stepping, a pitcher must bring his free foot into the air and replace it on the ground in a completely different spot. Hence, movement of the free foot is only a step when there is vertical movement (i.e., lift), and horizontal movement (i.e., distance along the ground).
(b) Direction: In stepping, a pitcher must bring his free foot toward, and nearer to, the pickoff base."

Most umpires will deem any step which is directed more toward the pick-off base than toward any other base as meeting the requirement of "toward". Roughly speaking, this is the same as rquiring a step which falls with plus or minus 45 degrees of a direct line to the pick-off base.

As the father of a pitcher, I can tell you that a few umpires revel in calling balks that only they see.
As the father of a left-handed pitcher, I can also tell you that a small minority of umpires seem to want to redress the unfair advantage that a LHP enjoys in holding runners at first base. Some of their balk calls are remarkably creative with respect to the actual rules. Fortunately, such umpires aren't very common. It's just one of the interesting aspects of the game.

Ah, them cheating lefties. MildoDad very nice description, I just flashed back to HS geometry, I actully understood "some of that" it'll take me a week to check your caculations so; I'll say I believe ya.

The southpaw, can indeed step a fair amount of degrees toward HP and still be okay to most umpires. I hope the call on this pitcher, was for starting his motion home, then changing direction.

Did the umpire offer an explaination to you?
Other than he's gotta step towards 1st?

Sounds like he was correct on 1. there's no 45* line, and 2. the pitcher must step towards first.

So, HTBT, but I'm leaning towards the umpire knows some of the rules, so I'll assume he was seeing a violation of some kind as opposed to making something up.

Were there other occasions where the move was not called or just those two?
You said you asked him if the 45* was still okay? Was he then being a non-coaching umpire and not offering you what he was calling, not uncommon? I don't agree with that approach. If I call a balk, I'm gonna tell you why, if it's all polite and stuff.

I remember an experiment with the 45 degree line. Couldn't guess what year. Pretty sure it was at the collegiate level (I saw some pretty good film on it, so sure it wasn't lower than that) and it was in color, so may indicate how old it wasn't.

At any rate, it showed the umpires, pitchers, and skippers out there arguing over where the line used to be.

Even with permanent lines the pitchers would clearly start home but as long as they remained with- in the "confines of that line", they were being allowed murder.

The lefties move to be balked, IMO, has a lot to do with what the rest of his body is up too. As long as nothing goes from "toward HP to some other direction" their pretty much okay.

My college coach used to tell us,"they cheat, so ya gotta trick em, take no lead, look slow and non-threatning, like your not going anywhere,pray,then; go on the first move.

Thanks all.
jjk,
The ump actually offered nothing except "the pitcher must step directly to first base." I asked if he honored the 45 degree and he said he doesn't exist, and the pitcher must step only directly to first base.

Is it any advantage to talk with an umpire before a game to get his perspective on this?

There is an advantage of asking the ump before the game if your son is not pitching and your team is using the RHP that night! It would work better if you know the opposing team is throwing their LHP and the ump doesn't know which team your son is on!
Also, if the ump said that the first little movement of the LHP must be directly to first and not indecisive (i.e. lifting the leg and holding it there), can you change your son's pitching motion in a few minutes?
I would keep it the same all the time. If it starts getting called a balk all the time or many times, then there is work to be done.

Tim Robertson

Here is the deal: my son's move consists of bringing the leg straight up and placing it down near the 45 degree line between first and home. In the process, as he lifts his leg his head is on the runner, but then as he brings his leg down, he turns his head to the plate and throws to first blind with his shoulders square to the plate. It is a nasty move.

quote:

Is it any advantage to talk with an umpire before a game to get his perspective on this?

No...none at all...Balks are judgment calls...What you would be saying to the umpire if you broached the subject with him prior to the game was this "I have a pick off move that might not be legal".....its better not to put that suggestion in his mind.....

There is no official 45 degree line in the rules, but many of the umpire manuals (PBUC, Jaksa/Roder and Jim Evans and most importantly to me, Carl Childress in the BRD) clearly use the term 45 degrees to designate that area which is not steping more toward a different base than the one to which he is throwing.......

As to calling balks, I understand that lefties have an advantage..thats baseball...its not my job to even out baseball.....

I was trained years ago by an old SAL league umpire...and He trained us to call...

100% of the balks that everyone sees.....
50% of the balks that baseball people can see
0% of the balks that only you see.....

reminding that there are 30+ infractions that a balk may be called on.....and to the vast majority of umpires, only 5-6 ever get called......

Hope this helps....(my .02)

quote:

Most umpires will deem any step which is directed more toward the pick-off base than toward any other base as meeting the requirement of "toward". Roughly speaking, this is the same as rquiring a step which falls with plus or minus 45 degrees of a direct line to the pick-off base.

This is generally what I have heard from the Umps I know.
Mid thans for the Geo refresher but the angles are still the same.

The key in the step is the phrase 'distance and direction'. As long as the pitcher's step gained distance and direction toward the pickoff base, he's fine.

The 45* concept is only a guide for the umpire, not a rulebook provision, as several others have pointed out.

quote:

he lifts his leg his head is on the runner, but then as he brings his leg down, he turns his head to the plate and throws to first blind with his shoulders square to the plate.

Again HTBT, but the motion sounds as if it's going towards the plate then stopping that motion with a change in direction towards 1B.
Once the shoulders turn towards the plate, your asking for trouble. IMO most umpires consider that "direction" towards HP. As I try and picture this in my mind, I too see motion towards HP. No, discussing moves with an umpire before a game or after for that matter is not a good idea. Although perhaps innocent enough, it's just not prudent, it's not called, you talked him out if prior to. It's called you tipped him off.. Just best to work on the move without motion towards the plate. The runner gets some chance, that's why there are balk rules.

jjk
my son also a lefty with a decent move. i think what he means is that his head is looking home .shoulders from the stretch would be somewhat square to first.but looking home causes the runner to lean a little towards second and bang. that is what i have in my minds eye. which in real life means squat.

20dad,
That is exactly what I mean. My son's head is looking to the plate with his shoulders already square to the plate because he is in the stretch. I guess it just depends on the ump. His move is so deceptive that even the first baseman is occasionally fooled. When he throws blind over to first, the way his head and shoulders point to home, it is very deceptive. Maybe too deceptive. However, there is not supposed to be any move toward home other than his foot not coming down directly toward first but more so toward the imaginary 45.

For what it's worth to anyone...

NFHS Rule Book doesn't refer to 45 degree angle but the NFHS Case Book does on page 50, 6.2.4 SITUATION B: With R1 on first, F1 attempts a pickoff while stepping at an angle but to the home plate side. RULING: Balk. To comply with the requirements to "step directly toward", F1 must step to the first-base side of a 45-degree angle between the center of the pitcher's plate and between home and first base. (6-2-4b)

Although the case book wording leaves much to be desired it gives a guidline to follow. As an umpire, to me it means the pitcher must step more toward first than toward home. The direction that his head is facing is irrelevant. The pitcher can be looking toward the plate when he starts his move to first.

Sherman it is impossible to have your shoulders square to the plate in the LHP motion. You seem to refer to the look in before going to set. Once you pull back to set your shoulders are square to 1st base. It is impossible to square to the plate after set. Head on plate is not a problem and throwing over to 1st while looking at home is not a problem but your step and body has to go to 1st. Any shoulder motion home is a balk in my opinion. You can look at home and back to 1st all you like but that is it.
I looked at some video and what you descibe is impossible. My son also looks at home whils starting his move to 1st and throws as you call it blind. His shoulders are square to 1st and his whole body goes to 1st. You have to reexamine what he is doing. If he keeps getting called he is doing something wrong. In the 10 years my son has pitched, he has had 4-5 balk calls and most are with runner on 2nd. LHP get their advantage from being open to 1st.

Pilsner that is exactly what I have been told.

I wonder if you have umpired any of my son's games ?

I think I've used the term "square" in the wrong way. What I mean is that his lead shoulder is pointed at home. We work on this move nearly every day - it's main emphasis is to fool the runner on first into believing he is committed to the plate. As he brings his leg up he will be looking at first, and then just before his leg reaches the top he will look at the plate with his lead shoulder and hip pointed at the plate. As his leg comes down, hopefully on or just before the 45 degree line (while his head, lead shoulder, and hip are still pointed at home)he throws basically blind over to first. There is no movement to home and then to first. The way his head, shoulder, and hip look it fools many into believing he is committed to the plate. Many times he will pick a runner off when they are taking their secondary lead.

Getting his head turned to home along with his front shoulder and hip makes it look like a balk. Rarely will a lefty have his lead shoulder, hip, and head pointed at the plate when he throws over to first - many people cannot believe his move because it is so deceptive. Again, we throw blind drills every day.

We have done what you refger to as blind for years. One coach had him blind folded.
All LHP's lead hip and lead shoulder face mome plate in the stretch. All look at home and back to 1st 1,2 or more times.
Secondary lead is more than 3 primary steps and any coach who let his runner do that on a lefty is looking for trouble.
One of the clips I used for promoting my son was a clip at a Connie Mack NY qualifier championship game a few years ago in Troy NY.
The lead off runner was on 1st and the coach yelled out "Watch That Lefty move" which is what I called the clip. 1st pitch was home and the runner was 2 primary steps off the bag. second throw stoned him. Froze in his tracks even after being warned. It took year to develope a hard throw over to 1st. His 1st pickoff in college was against the USC gamecocks which I recorded. The announcer went on for 10 minutes about the move. You will find a lot of lefties have great moves.
Find out what is getting called a balk and work on it. I am not sure what age group your son is but work on a smooth step over and look for things that tip off runners that he is throwing over. Inorder to get any power the head has to trail back to 1st as the throw is being delivered.

Could you share that clip? Love to see it ....

I usually send the clip to cap_n. have not seen him on the site for awhile. Not sure how to do it or if I can.

Though I follow and read most of the threads on this forum, I have not posted here for awhile because there was not [until now] anything I had to say that would be the least bit helpful or might stimulate further more insightful discussion. Now you have done it. I'm back.

My son is not a left-handed pitcher. My son is a base stealer. And I find the not in the rules but is some books written by umpires interpretation of the 45 degree step to HOME PLATE by left handed pitchers as an autlamtic no balk ever inviolate rule of baseball to be absurd and in violation of the "intent to deceive the runner" rule.

The left handed pitchers I have seen with good moves involve moving their right leg up from the stretch position with the knee to the chest and then moving their right foot at a 90 degree angle from their body generally directed toward first base. At that point I have no problem with a possible balk move. If, at that precise point, the pitcher extends his right foot futher in the direction towards first base [so that he would not be delivering the ball towards home from his normal stretch delivery] he has started towards first and must throw to first. I believe everyone thinks that there is no balk call [assuming all the other requirements are met].

If he moves his right leg up from the stretch position with the knee to the chest and then moving his right foot at a 90 degree angle from his body generally directed toward first base moves his right leg with foot attached from that 90 degree angle towards home and plants the right foot where he normally plants it to deliver home and delivers it home I have no problem with that move and there should be no balk call and I would hope we can all agree on that.

Now let us get to the nitty gritty. I have seen two moves out of this scenario that I have called balks and have argued with umpires on their no-balk call. They are as follows:

(1) The left-handed pitcher from the same starting point as in the previous examples, brings his right foot [while keeping his knee pointed to first] back to or behind the rubber as if to deliver the ball home and then moves his left knee with offending foot attached towards home and plants the right foot somewhere between first and home and delivers the ball to first. I call that a balk. If in your opinion it is not a balk, please explain to me why it is not with particular emphasis on how that is not a move that is intended to deceive the runner?

(2) The left-handed pitcher from the same starting point as in the previous examples, looks home, starts his right leg towards home, starts his arm motion towards home then quickly plants his right foot before even getting to a 45 degree angle and throws to first. I call that a balk. If in your opinion it is not a balk, please explain to me why it is not with particular emphasis on how that is not a move intended to deceive the runner?

TW344

Any movement to home before throwing over is a balk.
Most LHPs do not lift that high from the strtch. A high lift slows down the move to 1st and gives the runner too much time to steal.
The only point that the LHP could look like his foot is going home is when he drops his lift leg but it must go directly over to 1st before landing. Lots of parents see this as a balk. That LL has to come straight down and then go to 1st.

I am wondering how you start your arm motion toward home and still be able to throw over to first? With my son his arm action is supposed to mirror what he would normally do during a typical pitch, except that at the last possible moment he throws over to first. I think what my son may have been doing is allowing his lead shoulder and hip to move a bit (a few inches) forward even though his foot probably landed slighty before or on the 45 line.

In the scenario where a kid allows his right foot to swing back to the rubber or even behind it and then goes over to first would be called as a balk most of the time - especially if an ump is on the first base side. It seems to me though that a kid who lifts his right leg, but prevents his body from going forward (toward the plate)and then places his foot down before or on the 45 line should not be called for a balk so long as he did not swing his right foot back to the rubber. I can imagine an ump calling a balk, however if the right foot first went toward first then toward the plate and finally coming down at the 45.

BobbleheadDoll,
This is the question indeed. Does the LHP's foot have to go directly to first (as in a straight line to first) or can it go "toward" first (as in the general direction - i.e. the 45 line - the half way point between first and home)?

I understand there is no rule for the 45. However, as Pilsner wrote: "NFHS Rule Book doesn't refer to 45 degree angle but the NFHS Case Book does on page 50, 6.2.4 SITUATION B: With R1 on first, F1 attempts a pickoff while stepping at an angle but to the home plate side. RULING: Balk. To comply with the requirements to "step directly toward", F1 must step to the first-base side of a 45-degree angle between the center of the pitcher's plate and between home and first base. (6-2-4b)"

This indicates that LHP does not have to step directly at first base but toward - as in more toward first than home.

The angle as told by pilsners post is the line off the rubber not 1st. If you take the rubber and drew a line end to end and extend it between 1st and 2nd. That is the line that you use and rubber to home plate. If you step to a 45 degree line between home and a line to 1st you will likely be balking.
You may need to get someone who knows to help your son. It seems that you don't completely understand the motion. It is easy to learn and should stop the balk calls. Umps see anything moving towards home after set position it is a balk.
When your son balked did the coach ask the umo why. They usuallt will gladly help if the coach doesn't get too rowdy.
Also umps have a general spot where the foot should land with a little leaway depending on the level your son plays at.
The arm should throw directly over and that is a simple move for a LHP.

TW344,

Your first scenario would be a balk. If the left handed pitcher's non-pivot (right) foot passes behind the pitchers plate (to the second base side) he is obligated to go to the plate or he can go to second base if it is an attempt to put out or drive back a runner. The knee passing behind the rubber has no bearing on the enforcement of the rule; only the foot.

In your second scenario I would call a balk every time. If the pitcher has everything moving toward the plate but throws to first base his intent is clearly to deceive the runner. The way I envision your description the pitcher would also be lucky if he didn't lose his balance and fall down by trying to go in two directions at the same time.

BobbleheadDoll,
Please pardon me if I sound rude, but I am having a hard time envisioning what you are talking about when you refer to a line between first and second. Frankly, that has nothing to do with a LHP throwing over to first base. The 45 is supposed to be the angle between first base and home from the pitcher plate. Drawing a line from the first base end of the rubber directly to first base and then drawing a line from the middle of the rubber directly to home plate creates a right (90 degree) angle. While in the set position, a left hander will be facing first base. If he strides directly to home his angle is 90 degrees. If he strides to the half way point between first and home his stride is a 45 degree angle.

I understand all of this, but my question has really been about whether umps are no longer allowing the foot plant to be close to the 45. The ump I encountered stated a Lefty could only step directly at first base - no half way point - no 45 - not even a 25 or 35.

How many of you have encountered a RHP use the 45 while attempting a pickoff to third? I have and always understood it to be legal so long as his body did not move toward home first.

BobbleheadDoll,
Yes, I did ask the ump as I was the coach. Again, the ump said no step by the pitcher could be anything but directly to 1st base. When I stated that umps usually honor the 45 he simply said there is no such thing. Of course, I already knew it was not in the rule book, but I also know that the overwhelming majority of Blues allow a lefty an angle close to the 45.

BTW, the angle I am talking about is the angle from the pitching rubber.

i know the rule book is clear on the 45 degree thing and another book mentions it. but i believe it's 45 off the rubber to home.or from rubber to first to home ,while i realize it wouldn't be a true 90 degrees(from rubber to first and rubber to home)most of the time the umps are as frozen as the guy on first. the one thing i think we can all agree on .a good lefty move is great to watch,unless your on the other team.

quote:

To comply with the requirements to "step directly toward", F1 must step to the first-base side of a 45-degree angle between the center of the pitcher's plate and between home and first base. (6-2-4b)

quote:

To comply with the requirements to "step directly toward", F1 must step to the first-base side of a 45-degree angle between the center of the pitcher's plate and between home and first base. (6-2-4b

The ceter of the pitchers rubber is drawn along the rubber which if the line is extended goes somewhere between 2nd and 1st. That line and a line drawn from the rubber to home plate creates the quadrant of 90 degrees. 45 D lines somewhere in thE middle of tha quad. Roughly where 1st is. Stepping towards 1st is approx 45D . If you step between 1st and home you are balking. Maybe the problem.
If you take a field as having 369 D. Draw a line through the rubber to home and bavk to 2nd. You have 2 180Ds . Take another line along the rubber towrds 1st base line you have divided the left side of the field into 2 90 d sections. That lines goes between 2nd and 1st. amd not right to 1st. 1st is roughly half way to home plate line 45 D.
As far as the arm it goes to 1st as does the rest of the body head incloded. At balance the pivot foot sets up the move to 1st by a slight rotation as you throw over.

20 dad my son once had abalk called and his coach raced out to ask why. The Ump said because he fooled me. I never forgot that. They are not 100% correct all the time. I have video showing a bad call with a runner on 2nd. Ump said he didn't come to a complete stop after checking the runner and before going forward. A totally blown call. It happens.

BobbleheadDoll said:

quote:

That lines goes between 2nd and 1st. amd not right to 1st. 1st is roughly half way to home plate line 45 D.
As far as the arm it goes to 1st as does the rest of the body head incloded.

Uh, say what?

BobbleheadDoll said: "The ceter of the pitchers rubber is drawn along the rubber which if the line is extended goes somewhere between 2nd and 1st."

Am I missing something?

Yes The degrees between the line to 1st and a line to home has only 45 Ds.
As Pilsner said the rulings he posted were poorly written.
Take a pie and cut it into 4 eaqual parts . 4 guads with 90 D in each . On the left quad cut the quad furthest from you into 2 eaqual pieces. That is the line from 1st to pitching rubber.