keewart posted:^^^^ and the high school/college numbers are now even more daunting when you consider that the draft went from 50 to 40 rounds in 2012. That eliminated ~300 late round/courtesy/nepotism players.....and possibly a few outliers.
and Mike Piazza
Go44dad posted:keewart posted:^^^^ and the high school/college numbers are now even more daunting when you consider that the draft went from 50 to 40 rounds in 2012. That eliminated ~300 late round/courtesy/nepotism players.....and possibly a few outliers.
and Mike Piazza
If there were on,y forty rounds when Piazza was drafted he would have gone in the 40th round. Or he would have been signed as a free agent. Piazza's dad and Tom Lasorda grew up as best friends. Even the 40th round is still throw away picks. 35-40 is where the sons, nephews and cousins of organization personnel are drafted.
SanDiegoRealist posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:Great conversation, now I am going to throw a wet blanket on it.
From the 2007 draft thru the 2016 draft, only 4,284 high school seniors have been faced with this decision. To put that in perspective, approximately 130,000 high school seniors are on their school's varsity roster each year...so, the odds that most of us would even face this decision point is remote, at best (less than 1/2 of 1%). Those are the numbers over a 10-year period.
What I use these numbers for is planning for when there is a more (albeit still miniscule) chance of my son being drafted. The number of players drafted out of 4-year colleges in the same timeframe is 7,655 (6,320 from D1 programs, 768 from D2 schools, 385 from NAIA, 171 from D3 schools) and 1,581 from JUCOs. Now, I don't know exactly how many draft eligible players there are in each of these pools, but it is significantly smaller across the board than the HS pool of draft eligible players. Therefore, long money is on taking the college route if your kid's dream is to actually get drafted in the first place, with priority being placed on making the D1 level school, then Juco, then D2, then NAIA, then D3. I don't profess to being an expert on this, but this is what my numbers tell me. Soooo...since my kid is not going to be a physically mature specimen in his senior year of HS (he is bigger than I was at this point in HS, but logic tells me a good college program will put 10-20 pounds on him when he gets there) and won't likely be throwing across the diamond at 92MPH and hitting bombs (well, I hope he have the power by HS season to start stroking a handful of HRs), his best option is for me to push him into a D1 school if we can. I don't like the idea of going the JUCO route, personally, because that to me is just kind of playing a awaiting game and getting on a strong JUCO roster is no guarantee when you see the D1 transfers roll in. There is some seriously strong JUCO ball out there.
Just took a look at last year's draft results, as an example I will use the last HS player selected in the draft, Jeremy Ydens. He graded out by PG as a "10" and was ranked #286 overall for class of 2016. He was a UUCLA commit. He was the 1,216th player selected in the draft. Decided to go to UCLA. There is no slot money at that point, so that decision is easy. next example is Francisco Thomas, this kid was a PG All American and the next lowest HS draft pick in a slot money position (8th round #231 overall pick), committed to SDSU and was #75 ranked HS player for 2016 class per PG, signed with Brewers out of the draft (not sure how much he signed for). He struggled in Rookie league (batted .110). Would he have faired better in college in the MWC? Was the slot money of $183,000 (if that is what he signed for) worth the chance to start his professional career and face adversity right away, or would his draft prospects have been better after 3 years of college ball? I think we can all agree $183K is "change my life for the next couple of years" money.
Also:
2016 had 207 Division 1 players drafted in slot money picks, 70 high school players, eight D2 players, three D3 players, eight NAIA players, and 18 JUCO players.
No actually we don't all agree $183k is change my life for a couple years money. I know I am on the bottom of the heap socioeconomically on this board but come on guys. We don't all live in the world of high finance - although I certainly hope my kids get there with you. Where I live you could easily buy a foreclosure that would house a family for a long time in a safe if not glamorous area for 70k. Put 20k and a lot of sweat equity in it and you have a house worth twice that... do two of them... and so on and so on. Even if you didn't want to be a flipper just do one more to upgrade area at least and you have a paid for house for the rest of your life. Any idea how much that can help your start in the world? What would life be like if we never had a mortgage? And in my example that kid would still have 30 or 40k in the bank after the house. Start throwing that in long term investments and live like any other 18yo - hand to mouth. When your baseball dream is over go to school if you like. Nobody is forcing you to start a family. A 21yo kid with a paid for house and a part time job making 10k a year can get through school easy. Don't have to go to Harvard you know. And I am sure mom and dad won't completely abandon you. And odds are if you were that good an athlete you can get some scholarship money in another sport. Bust your a** and graduate in 3 1/2 years like I did once I went back at age 24. Now let's say this kid is 25 with a college degree that cost him peanuts cause he got a scholarship and maybe a little help from mom and dad. Let's say his savings is gone but he has no debt and a paid for house. How many kids graduate college with a paid for house and no debt???? Sounds like a hell of a plan to me.
Oh by the way that kid could also rent out that house or two the entire time he is playing ball and going to school. If my son got offered 183k... I think I would advise him to take it and I would go fix his house for him!
RJM posted:Go44dad posted:keewart posted:^^^^ and the high school/college numbers are now even more daunting when you consider that the draft went from 50 to 40 rounds in 2012. That eliminated ~300 late round/courtesy/nepotism players.....and possibly a few outliers.
and Mike Piazza
If there were on,y forty rounds when Piazza was drafted he would have gone in the 40th round. Or he would have been signed as a free agent. Piazza's dad and Tom Lasorda grew up as best friends. Even the 40th round is still throw away picks. 35-40 is where the sons, nephews and cousins of organization personnel are drafted.
And the flyers. Yankees took one of our kids in the 40th last year hoping maybe they could wave a little cash at him and persuade him not to attend Florida. Ultimately he bet on himself by going to college as he told scouts he would if under a certain amount of bonus. Hope it works for him. Had he been open to signing for less he would have gone much much higher in the draft.
Oh and one more thing, like Columbo, on this board the odds of being drafted are exponentially higher than 1%. I don't think mine will fall into that category but there are many on here that are almost certain to deal with that someday. And even kids who are really good but not great are not comparable to just the average high school player. So when we talk about odds we have to remember a great deal of the field is already eliminated. I know an awful lot of guys who were drafted and more than a few that played MLB. They aren't supermen. This isn't football or basketball. Let's not put them so high on a pedestal that we think there will never be another like so in so.
2020dad posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:Great conversation, now I am going to throw a wet blanket on it.
From the 2007 draft thru the 2016 draft, only 4,284 high school seniors have been faced with this decision. To put that in perspective, approximately 130,000 high school seniors are on their school's varsity roster each year...so, the odds that most of us would even face this decision point is remote, at best (less than 1/2 of 1%). Those are the numbers over a 10-year period.
What I use these numbers for is planning for when there is a more (albeit still miniscule) chance of my son being drafted. The number of players drafted out of 4-year colleges in the same timeframe is 7,655 (6,320 from D1 programs, 768 from D2 schools, 385 from NAIA, 171 from D3 schools) and 1,581 from JUCOs. Now, I don't know exactly how many draft eligible players there are in each of these pools, but it is significantly smaller across the board than the HS pool of draft eligible players. Therefore, long money is on taking the college route if your kid's dream is to actually get drafted in the first place, with priority being placed on making the D1 level school, then Juco, then D2, then NAIA, then D3. I don't profess to being an expert on this, but this is what my numbers tell me. Soooo...since my kid is not going to be a physically mature specimen in his senior year of HS (he is bigger than I was at this point in HS, but logic tells me a good college program will put 10-20 pounds on him when he gets there) and won't likely be throwing across the diamond at 92MPH and hitting bombs (well, I hope he have the power by HS season to start stroking a handful of HRs), his best option is for me to push him into a D1 school if we can. I don't like the idea of going the JUCO route, personally, because that to me is just kind of playing a awaiting game and getting on a strong JUCO roster is no guarantee when you see the D1 transfers roll in. There is some seriously strong JUCO ball out there.
Just took a look at last year's draft results, as an example I will use the last HS player selected in the draft, Jeremy Ydens. He graded out by PG as a "10" and was ranked #286 overall for class of 2016. He was a UUCLA commit. He was the 1,216th player selected in the draft. Decided to go to UCLA. There is no slot money at that point, so that decision is easy. next example is Francisco Thomas, this kid was a PG All American and the next lowest HS draft pick in a slot money position (8th round #231 overall pick), committed to SDSU and was #75 ranked HS player for 2016 class per PG, signed with Brewers out of the draft (not sure how much he signed for). He struggled in Rookie league (batted .110). Would he have faired better in college in the MWC? Was the slot money of $183,000 (if that is what he signed for) worth the chance to start his professional career and face adversity right away, or would his draft prospects have been better after 3 years of college ball? I think we can all agree $183K is "change my life for the next couple of years" money.
Also:
2016 had 207 Division 1 players drafted in slot money picks, 70 high school players, eight D2 players, three D3 players, eight NAIA players, and 18 JUCO players.
No actually we don't all agree $183k is change my life for a couple years money. I know I am on the bottom of the heap socioeconomically on this board but come on guys. We don't all live in the world of high finance - although I certainly hope my kids get there with you. Where I live you could easily buy a foreclosure that would house a family for a long time in a safe if not glamorous area for 70k. Put 20k and a lot of sweat equity in it and you have a house worth twice that... do two of them... and so on and so on. Even if you didn't want to be a flipper just do one more to upgrade area at least and you have a paid for house for the rest of your life. Any idea how much that can help your start in the world? What would life be like if we never had a mortgage? And in my example that kid would still have 30 or 40k in the bank after the house. Start throwing that in long term investments and live like any other 18yo - hand to mouth. When your baseball dream is over go to school if you like. Nobody is forcing you to start a family. A 21yo kid with a paid for house and a part time job making 10k a year can get through school easy. Don't have to go to Harvard you know. And I am sure mom and dad won't completely abandon you. And odds are if you were that good an athlete you can get some scholarship money in another sport. Bust your a** and graduate in 3 1/2 years like I did once I went back at age 24. Now let's say this kid is 25 with a college degree that cost him peanuts cause he got a scholarship and maybe a little help from mom and dad. Let's say his savings is gone but he has no debt and a paid for house. How many kids graduate college with a paid for house and no debt???? Sounds like a hell of a plan to me.
Oh by the way that kid could also rent out that house or two the entire time he is playing ball and going to school. If my son got offered 183k... I think I would advise him to take it and I would go fix his house for him!
And somewhere in all of this house renovation, flipping and renting he will be trying to become a better professional baseball player? I guess my point, 2020, was that this particular player (hindsight being 20/20 of course) may have been better served going to SDSU, developing his game against better pitching, and then getting drafted. It's likely he would have drafted higher than 8th round based on his PG score and being a PG All American, and he most likely would have been able to make the adjustment to a higher level of baseball after facing D1 level competition for 3 years. It's all speculation, but I bet the kids circumstances made that slot money level bonus a very attractive scenario.
SanDiegoRealist posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:Great conversation, now I am going to throw a wet blanket on it.
From the 2007 draft thru the 2016 draft, only 4,284 high school seniors have been faced with this decision. To put that in perspective, approximately 130,000 high school seniors are on their school's varsity roster each year...so, the odds that most of us would even face this decision point is remote, at best (less than 1/2 of 1%). Those are the numbers over a 10-year period.
What I use these numbers for is planning for when there is a more (albeit still miniscule) chance of my son being drafted. The number of players drafted out of 4-year colleges in the same timeframe is 7,655 (6,320 from D1 programs, 768 from D2 schools, 385 from NAIA, 171 from D3 schools) and 1,581 from JUCOs. Now, I don't know exactly how many draft eligible players there are in each of these pools, but it is significantly smaller across the board than the HS pool of draft eligible players. Therefore, long money is on taking the college route if your kid's dream is to actually get drafted in the first place, with priority being placed on making the D1 level school, then Juco, then D2, then NAIA, then D3. I don't profess to being an expert on this, but this is what my numbers tell me. Soooo...since my kid is not going to be a physically mature specimen in his senior year of HS (he is bigger than I was at this point in HS, but logic tells me a good college program will put 10-20 pounds on him when he gets there) and won't likely be throwing across the diamond at 92MPH and hitting bombs (well, I hope he have the power by HS season to start stroking a handful of HRs), his best option is for me to push him into a D1 school if we can. I don't like the idea of going the JUCO route, personally, because that to me is just kind of playing a awaiting game and getting on a strong JUCO roster is no guarantee when you see the D1 transfers roll in. There is some seriously strong JUCO ball out there.
Just took a look at last year's draft results, as an example I will use the last HS player selected in the draft, Jeremy Ydens. He graded out by PG as a "10" and was ranked #286 overall for class of 2016. He was a UUCLA commit. He was the 1,216th player selected in the draft. Decided to go to UCLA. There is no slot money at that point, so that decision is easy. next example is Francisco Thomas, this kid was a PG All American and the next lowest HS draft pick in a slot money position (8th round #231 overall pick), committed to SDSU and was #75 ranked HS player for 2016 class per PG, signed with Brewers out of the draft (not sure how much he signed for). He struggled in Rookie league (batted .110). Would he have faired better in college in the MWC? Was the slot money of $183,000 (if that is what he signed for) worth the chance to start his professional career and face adversity right away, or would his draft prospects have been better after 3 years of college ball? I think we can all agree $183K is "change my life forthe next couple of years" money.
Also:
2016 had 207 Division 1 players drafted in slot money picks, 70 high school players, eight D2 players, three D3 players, eight NAIA players, and 18 JUCO players.
231. MIL - Francisco Thomas, SS, Osceola Senior HS (Fla.)
$200,000 (Pick value: $183,200)
hshuler posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:Great conversation, now I am going to throw a wet blanket on it.
From the 2007 draft thru the 2016 draft, only 4,284 high school seniors have been faced with this decision. To put that in perspective, approximately 130,000 high school seniors are on their school's varsity roster each year...so, the odds that most of us would even face this decision point is remote, at best (less than 1/2 of 1%). Those are the numbers over a 10-year period.
What I use these numbers for is planning for when there is a more (albeit still miniscule) chance of my son being drafted. The number of players drafted out of 4-year colleges in the same timeframe is 7,655 (6,320 from D1 programs, 768 from D2 schools, 385 from NAIA, 171 from D3 schools) and 1,581 from JUCOs. Now, I don't know exactly how many draft eligible players there are in each of these pools, but it is significantly smaller across the board than the HS pool of draft eligible players. Therefore, long money is on taking the college route if your kid's dream is to actually get drafted in the first place, with priority being placed on making the D1 level school, then Juco, then D2, then NAIA, then D3. I don't profess to being an expert on this, but this is what my numbers tell me. Soooo...since my kid is not going to be a physically mature specimen in his senior year of HS (he is bigger than I was at this point in HS, but logic tells me a good college program will put 10-20 pounds on him when he gets there) and won't likely be throwing across the diamond at 92MPH and hitting bombs (well, I hope he have the power by HS season to start stroking a handful of HRs), his best option is for me to push him into a D1 school if we can. I don't like the idea of going the JUCO route, personally, because that to me is just kind of playing a awaiting game and getting on a strong JUCO roster is no guarantee when you see the D1 transfers roll in. There is some seriously strong JUCO ball out there.
Just took a look at last year's draft results, as an example I will use the last HS player selected in the draft, Jeremy Ydens. He graded out by PG as a "10" and was ranked #286 overall for class of 2016. He was a UUCLA commit. He was the 1,216th player selected in the draft. Decided to go to UCLA. There is no slot money at that point, so that decision is easy. next example is Francisco Thomas, this kid was a PG All American and the next lowest HS draft pick in a slot money position (8th round #231 overall pick), committed to SDSU and was #75 ranked HS player for 2016 class per PG, signed with Brewers out of the draft (not sure how much he signed for). He struggled in Rookie league (batted .110). Would he have faired better in college in the MWC? Was the slot money of $183,000 (if that is what he signed for) worth the chance to start his professional career and face adversity right away, or would his draft prospects have been better after 3 years of college ball? I think we can all agree $183K is "change my life forthe next couple of years" money.
Also:
2016 had 207 Division 1 players drafted in slot money picks, 70 high school players, eight D2 players, three D3 players, eight NAIA players, and 18 JUCO players.
231. MIL - Francisco Thomas, SS, Osceola Senior HS (Fla.)
$200,000 (Pick value: $183,200)
Thanks, Shu. I looked in a couple of places and couldn't find his signing amount, so he signed for slightly above slot.
SanDiegoRealist posted:hshuler posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:Great conversation, now I am going to throw a wet blanket on it.
From the 2007 draft thru the 2016 draft, only 4,284 high school seniors have been faced with this decision. To put that in perspective, approximately 130,000 high school seniors are on their school's varsity roster each year...so, the odds that most of us would even face this decision point is remote, at best (less than 1/2 of 1%). Those are the numbers over a 10-year period.
What I use these numbers for is planning for when there is a more (albeit still miniscule) chance of my son being drafted. The number of players drafted out of 4-year colleges in the same timeframe is 7,655 (6,320 from D1 programs, 768 from D2 schools, 385 from NAIA, 171 from D3 schools) and 1,581 from JUCOs. Now, I don't know exactly how many draft eligible players there are in each of these pools, but it is significantly smaller across the board than the HS pool of draft eligible players. Therefore, long money is on taking the college route if your kid's dream is to actually get drafted in the first place, with priority being placed on making the D1 level school, then Juco, then D2, then NAIA, then D3. I don't profess to being an expert on this, but this is what my numbers tell me. Soooo...since my kid is not going to be a physically mature specimen in his senior year of HS (he is bigger than I was at this point in HS, but logic tells me a good college program will put 10-20 pounds on him when he gets there) and won't likely be throwing across the diamond at 92MPH and hitting bombs (well, I hope he have the power by HS season to start stroking a handful of HRs), his best option is for me to push him into a D1 school if we can. I don't like the idea of going the JUCO route, personally, because that to me is just kind of playing a awaiting game and getting on a strong JUCO roster is no guarantee when you see the D1 transfers roll in. There is some seriously strong JUCO ball out there.
Just took a look at last year's draft results, as an example I will use the last HS player selected in the draft, Jeremy Ydens. He graded out by PG as a "10" and was ranked #286 overall for class of 2016. He was a UUCLA commit. He was the 1,216th player selected in the draft. Decided to go to UCLA. There is no slot money at that point, so that decision is easy. next example is Francisco Thomas, this kid was a PG All American and the next lowest HS draft pick in a slot money position (8th round #231 overall pick), committed to SDSU and was #75 ranked HS player for 2016 class per PG, signed with Brewers out of the draft (not sure how much he signed for). He struggled in Rookie league (batted .110). Would he have faired better in college in the MWC? Was the slot money of $183,000 (if that is what he signed for) worth the chance to start his professional career and face adversity right away, or would his draft prospects have been better after 3 years of college ball? I think we can all agree $183K is "change my life forthe next couple of years" money.
Also:
2016 had 207 Division 1 players drafted in slot money picks, 70 high school players, eight D2 players, three D3 players, eight NAIA players, and 18 JUCO players.
231. MIL - Francisco Thomas, SS, Osceola Senior HS (Fla.)
$200,000 (Pick value: $183,200)
Thanks, Shu. I looked in a couple of places and couldn't find his signing amount, so he signed for slightly above slot.
No problem.
Here are the top ten rounds:
Sandiego I think you are not taking parental help into account. As I said it's not like the parents would abandon him. I even went on to say if it were me I would do the work on the house. As for rentals there Re property management companies that will handle everything from A to Z for about 10% of the rent! So he could focus on baseball just fine!
2020dad posted:Sandiego I think you are not taking parental help into account. As I said it's not like the parents would abandon him. I even went on to say if it were me I would do the work on the house. As for rentals there Re property management companies that will handle everything from A to Z for about 10% of the rent! So he could focus on baseball just fine!
I know, you are like me, you would do everything to help your kid make the best effort. Not beefing with you, just discussing the options of this particular player.
I just think that, if I were 18 years old (and I know parents are going to give all kinds of financial advice and varying degrees of financial support), the last thing I would be thinking about is paying cash on a foreclosed property or two. Heck, at 18 if I had that kind of money in my pocket I would have been the richest person in my family and would have had 6 siblings hitting me up for everything under the sun. My parents never had $5,000 in the bank, let alone $200K. So they really could not have helped me in the same scenario...and I am sure there are instances where the same holds true every year for kids.
A couple hundred grand to a family that lives paycheck to paycheck is a lot of money...and that amount of money goes quickly (especially after taxes and advisor/agent fees). You could never have convinced me (right or wrong) that it was in my financial best interest to spend 50-70% of that amount on a house or two with the long-term plan of renovating the house and using the cash flow from renting it for my future revenue, or living in it in 4-6 years in the future. I would have just looked at it as spending all of my money on something that needed work (more money) and the cost of renting it (management). But that is just me.
I think there are some of us on here have been fortunate in life, but we all surely worked hard to get where we are. I think that every parent would want to help financially if they could...but not all can.
SanDiegoRealist posted:2020dad posted:Sandiego I think you are not taking parental help into account. As I said it's not like the parents would abandon him. I even went on to say if it were me I would do the work on the house. As for rentals there Re property management companies that will handle everything from A to Z for about 10% of the rent! So he could focus on baseball just fine!
I know, you are like me, you would do everything to help your kid make the best effort. Not beefing with you, just discussing the options of this particular player.
I just think that, if I were 18 years old (and I know parents are going to give all kinds of financial advice and varying degrees of financial support), the last thing I would be thinking about is paying cash on a foreclosed property or two. Heck, at 18 if I had that kind of money in my pocket I would have been the richest person in my family and would have had 6 siblings hitting me up for everything under the sun. My parents never had $5,000 in the bank, let alone $200K. So they really could not have helped me in the same scenario...and I am sure there are instances where the same holds true every year for kids.
A couple hundred grand to a family that lives paycheck to paycheck is a lot of money...and that amount of money goes quickly (especially after taxes and advisor/agent fees). You could never have convinced me (right or wrong) that it was in my financial best interest to spend 50-70% of that amount on a house or two with the long-term plan of renovating the house and using the cash flow from renting it for my future revenue, or living in it in 4-6 years in the future. I would have just looked at it as spending all of my money on something that needed work (more money) and the cost of renting it (management). But that is just me.
I think there are some of us on here have been fortunate in life, but we all surely worked hard to get where we are. I think that every parent would want to help financially if they could...but not all can.
Make no mistake if it were ME getting the 200k I would have blown it like a pimp. I am doing the best I can to raise my kids to be smarter than me!
TPM posted:Good post Nuke, just a few things as to your post.
It's quite impossible to try to be successful at this job and go to school. A player doesnt stop being a player in the off season. In the beginning he may have to attend instructs in fall, the first season is always the easiest being a shortened season.
One has to be ready for spring training. That requires off season work. Actually no one understands spring training until you have been through milb spring training. It's quite different than going to college and playing baseball. In a way, IMO that experience actually helps players, I often wonder if that's why many players out of HS fail at the game. Son used to tell us the college guys were much better prepared than the younger guys.
Also, once you start the academic clock you have to keep it going. That's all laid out if the player takes the ML scholarship. And as far as I am aware, online schools are in the business of making money, so I am pretty sure they want you to not take classes for few years, stop, then continue, stop, etc. It's much easier for a junior to complete his college degree as they work with you to get it done. In sons case he had instructs and then rehab from surgeries for a few off seasons, AZFL, then played winter ball as many do in off season. When you do have time off you don't want to study!
I agree with you, but I'm relaying the real world example of this one player as was shared with me by his Dad. To date, he has completed over a year's worth of school during off-seasons. Taking a course or so at a time. Still leaving him plenty of time for his off-season work. I'm sure we can agree that there IS time to work on school in the off-season, but like you said, most don't WANT to spend their little free time studying. This particular kid made a promise to his family and, kudos to him, has upheld it. I have no doubt my kid would rescind on that one the first off-season.
I also believe that they're paying out of pocket for the college to this point to keep the ticker on MLB scholarship on hold. That will also allow the FULL value of that scholarship to be available to cover his expenses and tuition for the remaining two years, so he can rent a house, etc., and stretch that money much further to support a family a bit more than if required to drag it four years. This family is being extremely smart and resourceful.
Nuke83 posted:TPM posted:Good post Nuke, just a few things as to your post.
It's quite impossible to try to be successful at this job and go to school. A player doesnt stop being a player in the off season. In the beginning he may have to attend instructs in fall, the first season is always the easiest being a shortened season.
One has to be ready for spring training. That requires off season work. Actually no one understands spring training until you have been through milb spring training. It's quite different than going to college and playing baseball. In a way, IMO that experience actually helps players, I often wonder if that's why many players out of HS fail at the game. Son used to tell us the college guys were much better prepared than the younger guys.
Also, once you start the academic clock you have to keep it going. That's all laid out if the player takes the ML scholarship. And as far as I am aware, online schools are in the business of making money, so I am pretty sure they want you to not take classes for few years, stop, then continue, stop, etc. It's much easier for a junior to complete his college degree as they work with you to get it done. In sons case he had instructs and then rehab from surgeries for a few off seasons, AZFL, then played winter ball as many do in off season. When you do have time off you don't want to study!
I agree with you, but I'm relaying the real world example of this one player as was shared with me by his Dad. To date, he has completed over a year's worth of school during off-seasons. Taking a course or so at a time. Still leaving him plenty of time for his off-season work. I'm sure we can agree that there IS time to work on school in the off-season, but like you said, most don't WANT to spend their little free time studying. This particular kid made a promise to his family and, kudos to him, has upheld it. I have no doubt my kid would rescind on that one the first off-season.
I also believe that they're paying out of pocket for the college to this point to keep the ticker on MLB scholarship on hold. That will also allow the FULL value of that scholarship to be available to cover his expenses and tuition for the remaining two years, so he can rent a house, etc., and stretch that money much further to support a family a bit more than if required to drag it four years. This family is being extremely smart and resourceful.
Yes, one can start the clock by paying out of pocket. Smart move.
FWIW, any players arent afforded the luxury of a decent bonus, so they do have to work in off season.
BTW while I think it is stupid to turn down 1M plus and usually it backfires it is good that there are guys occasionally turning that down so that mlb clubs know they cant low ball top prospect.
If nobody would turn it down the clubs would just offer 3M to the number 1 overall and say hey its live changing money so be pleased.
So while I would never do it it is good that there are guys like aiken, because they put some pressure on the clubs to not go under slot too much.
BTW how much taxes are there on a signing bonus and what is the advisor bonus, I. E. What do you need to get before taxes and advisor to have a million in the bank?
I believe that 39.6% goes to taxes on anything over a million.
A former neighbor is a football agent and I believe that he got 3% but not sure if it's the same across the board.
Dominik85 posted:BTW while I think it is stupid to turn down 1M plus and usually it backfires it is good that there are guys occasionally turning that down so that mlb clubs know they cant low ball top prospect.
If nobody would turn it down the clubs would just offer 3M to the number 1 overall and say hey its live changing money so be pleased.
So while I would never do it it is good that there are guys like aiken, because they put some pressure on the clubs to not go under slot too much.
I personally think Aiken was poorly advised. He threw away over $2M because they weren't buying what the Astros were telling him about his increased potential for UCL tear because he has/had an abnormally short UCL. 6 months later while pitching for IMG Academy guess what happens? Tommy John. He is fortunate to have a second chance and to have been a 1st round pick again. I think the Astros were performing due diligence, not trying to lowball him.
hshuler posted:I believe that 39.6% goes to taxes on anything over a million.
A former neighbor is a football agent and I believe that he got 3% but not sure if it's the same across the board.
So basically if you get a 1.7M bonus you have a million in the bank?
Dominik85 posted:hshuler posted:I believe that 39.6% goes to taxes on anything over a million.
A former neighbor is a football agent and I believe that he got 3% but not sure if it's the same across the board.
So basically if you get a 1.7M bonus you have a million in the bank?
I think that's about right.
Dominik85 posted:hshuler posted:I believe that 39.6% goes to taxes on anything over a million.
A former neighbor is a football agent and I believe that he got 3% but not sure if it's the same across the board.
So basically if you get a 1.7M bonus you have a million in the bank?
Minus state income tax and agent commission. Agents earn 4-10%. State income tax can be anywhere from zero to 13%. A kid from California loses more than half in federal and state taxes plus agent's fees.
Dominik85 posted:BTW while I think it is stupid to turn down 1M plus and usually it backfires it is good that there are guys occasionally turning that down so that mlb clubs know they cant low ball top prospect.
If nobody would turn it down the clubs would just offer 3M to the number 1 overall and say hey its live changing money so be pleased.
So while I would never do it it is good that there are guys like aiken, because they put some pressure on the clubs to not go under slot too much.
Teams mostly offer what they believe the player is worth. The players offered 2m+ who don't sign usually have an unrealistic view of their value. Chances are their dad is acting as advisor instead of a professional.
Using 5% (I have heard baseball is 4-5%) for an advisor and not including any exclusions, deductions, credits, or STATE taxes, I came up with the whopping number of......(drum roll please because I had to get my engineer son to help me with algebraic distribution for the taxes):
$1,725,938.54
Highest tax rate is $120,529 plus 39.6% of the amounts over $415,050 for 2016.
(I'm snowed in and always like a good math problem. Boy, I wish this math would be applicable in my real life!)
So yes, $1.7 mil.
RJM posted:Dominik85 posted:BTW while I think it is stupid to turn down 1M plus and usually it backfires it is good that there are guys occasionally turning that down so that mlb clubs know they cant low ball top prospect.
If nobody would turn it down the clubs would just offer 3M to the number 1 overall and say hey its live changing money so be pleased.
So while I would never do it it is good that there are guys like aiken, because they put some pressure on the clubs to not go under slot too much.
Teams mostly offer what they believe the player is worth. The players offered 2m+ who don't sign usually have an unrealistic view of their value. Chances are their dad is acting as advisor instead of a professional.
Draft picks are actually a lot more worth than what they get, a bryce harper would have gotten 50m on the open market ( see moncada).
Teams offer what they believe a player will sign for if they believed the first overall would sign for 5 k they would offer that ( if rules allowed for that).
FYI, I am pretty sure that Uncle Sam requires that 25% off the top and players that receive large bonus do not get it all in one shot. Many teams are cash poor in June, usually pay out is in the fall with the second check coming in late March. The very large bonus may be split up more times than that.
Many years ago teams paid out on a 1099. It was not reported so that is the reason for the requirement. The big agencies get minimum 4%. Under 100k I believe is negotiable. If one doesn't have an agent be prepared to buy all equipment, including cleats, turf shoes, bats and gloves and undergarments. As a MLB player one gets deals from companies but most good agents have good equipment deals. They also get card deals and sons was pretty nice, his cards still out there. All the team gives you is a uniform.
Most new milb players out of school don't have credit. Even with the help of the agent or financial advisor its difficult for the mid round guys. So trying to buy a house or car has to be done in cash unless a parent co signs, money in the bank means nothing because it can be gone tomorrow. Sending your player off to college with his own credit card with a small balance available helps build credit. This doesn't apply to the millionaires because for most that unrealistic.
"...players that receive large bonus do not get it all in one shot. Many teams are cash poor in June, usually pay out is in the fall with the second check coming in late March. The very large bonus may be split up more times than that. "
^^^ Friend's son was rooming one fall with the recent #2 pick. Both were pitchers drafted as juniors out of college. Friend's son had to pay the whole rent because the #2 pick hadn't gotten any of his bonus money (yet). The difference between 1st round 2nd pick, and somewhere in the 5th round, about ~4% of the #2 pick's amount.
"Sending your player off to college with his own credit card with a small balance available helps build credit."
^^^^This! Whether you have a baseball player son or not. We reimburse "allowable" college expenses, but it also helps son track what he is spending, buy books online, have ready access to money when traveling, etc. Co-sign what you feel comfortable with, but the card is in son's name.
Dominik85 posted:RJM posted:Dominik85 posted:BTW while I think it is stupid to turn down 1M plus and usually it backfires it is good that there are guys occasionally turning that down so that mlb clubs know they cant low ball top prospect.
If nobody would turn it down the clubs would just offer 3M to the number 1 overall and say hey its live changing money so be pleased.
So while I would never do it it is good that there are guys like aiken, because they put some pressure on the clubs to not go under slot too much.
Teams mostly offer what they believe the player is worth. The players offered 2m+ who don't sign usually have an unrealistic view of their value. Chances are their dad is acting as advisor instead of a professional.
Draft picks are actually a lot more worth than what they get, a bryce harper would have gotten 50m on the open market ( see moncada).
Teams offer what they believe a player will sign for if they believed the first overall would sign for 5 k they would offer that ( if rules allowed for that).
Drat picks are offered what they are believed to be worth in an environment that includes a draft. You are more likely to see international players included in the draft than see the draft disappear. A kid out of high school has the leverage of going to college. A college junior has the leverage of returning senior year. But if he returns for senior year he's forfeiting all his leverage after senior year unless he wants sit out a year or play Indy ball.
keewart posted:The difference between 1st round 2nd pick, and somewhere in the 5th round, about ~4% of the #2 pick's amount.
Not sure I understand this. Are you saying that the signing bonus between the 1-2 pick was only 4% more than a 5-x pick? Is this prior to the slot value process?
2016 1-2 pick signed for 6.2 million (slot value $7,762,900) while the highest bonus paid to any round 5 selection was $800,000.
Nuke83 posted:keewart posted:The difference between 1st round 2nd pick, and somewhere in the 5th round, about ~4% of the #2 pick's amount.
Not sure I understand this. Are you saying that the signing bonus between the 1-2 pick was only 4% more than a 5-x pick? Is this prior to the slot value process?
2016 1-2 pick signed for 6.2 million (slot value $7,762,900) while the highest bonus paid to any round 5 selection was $800,000.
Let me rephrase: My friend's son's bonus (5th round) was only about 4% of his roommate's bonus (1st round). Not 2016, but only a few years ago.
If we take the 1.7 m as a cutoff (1m net) almost all of the first rounders got that in 2016. Also 4 out of 7 in the first sandwich round got it
Out of the second round still six out of 29 exceeded it and in the second sandwich round 1 got it.
The third round is where is gets thinner, only one exceeded the 1.7 and most were under 1m.
So I would think that after the second round is were the decision gets tough. I know most in the second round are under 1.7 but still most got something like 1.2 or so which is about a net 700k which is still pretty life changing for most.
2018 could face this dilemma ......its a tough one. I think it would take a good amount not to attend Vanderbilt . Brown has made some very good pitchers , Corbin is the best.. Vandy education, travel, training table, all the latest in equipment and training aids.... the field in 4 blocks from my office. Chances are good that you get drafted after 3 years at Vandy and you are more mature and starting out higher than low A.
But then again a 1million in the bank, not putting as many innings on your arm in milb as opposed to college. Wish I would have had this problem when I was 18.
bacdorslider posted:2018 could face this dilemma ......its a tough one. I think it would take a good amount not to attend Vanderbilt . Brown has made some very good pitchers , Corbin is the best.. Vandy education, travel, training table, all the latest in equipment and training aids.... the field in 4 blocks from my office. Chances are good that you get drafted after 3 years at Vandy and you are more mature and starting out higher than low A.
But then again a 1million in the bank, not putting as many innings on your arm in milb as opposed to college. Wish I would have had this problem when I was 18.
I wish I had this problem really right now. LoL
bacdorslider posted:2018 could face this dilemma ......its a tough one. I think it would take a good amount not to attend Vanderbilt . Brown has made some very good pitchers , Corbin is the best.. Vandy education, travel, training table, all the latest in equipment and training aids.... the field in 4 blocks from my office. Chances are good that you get drafted after 3 years at Vandy and you are more mature and starting out higher than low A.
But then again a 1million in the bank, not putting as many innings on your arm in milb as opposed to college. Wish I would have had this problem when I was 18.
Bacdorslider, good luck with that dilemma, its good one to have.
I had a phone call with A pro-scout this weekend on my 2019, it was kinda unreal for someone to see what I see in my kid. he opened my eyes to a lot of things and options we should have down the road, one of the things he told me was to enjoy it and that I was doing a good job with him, and to relax. but I can agree life changing money is different to everyone, money in the bank is money in the bank !
A classmate at my HS...I played with him when he was in MS but he was tiny and was quite average. He grew into 6'2 in HS, threw low 90s with good control and was drafted in the 17th round. I don't know what the bonus was back then, probably 15-30k. Today it would be about $130k. I was surprised when he turned it down. He went to college, didn't play for the first 2 years, did decent his jr season and got injured as a senior, then tried his luck in an indy league. He got his velocity back, had good control but threw a lot of wild pitches for some reason. He finally got it together his last year until he got injured again. But his college degree is just as life changing, and he probably makes more than me now.
hsbaseball101 posted:A classmate at my HS...I played with him when he was in MS but he was tiny and was quite average. He grew into 6'2 in HS, threw low 90s with good control and was drafted in the 17th round. I don't know what the bonus was back then, probably 15-30k. Today it would be about $130k. I was surprised when he turned it down. He went to college, didn't play for the first 2 years, did decent his jr season and got injured as a senior, then tried his luck in an indy league. He got his velocity back, had good control but threw a lot of wild pitches for some reason. He finally got it together his last year until he got injured again. But his college degree is just as life changing, and he probably makes more than me now.
The pick value for the 10th round in 2016 was $156-161K. With a handful of exceptions the bonus money drops off the table after the 10th round. Teams have a limited amount of money allotted for bonus money.
There are penalties for giving a bonus of 100K+ to any player selected in rounds 11-40. This is to prevent big money teams from drafted a player late who is adamant he's going to college then offering him "can't refuse" money.
As my son goes through this process now, the best advice we've heard from several scouts is that if the amount of the signing bonus is the deciding factor, go to college. If the mindset is that the only paycheck the kid will get will be the signing bonus, go to college.
If the top priority of the family is the financial security offered through the signing bonus, then the general consensus of the pro community is that the kid isn't likely to have the intangibles necessary to succeed out of HS and they'd rather see the kid go to school and make the pro decision later when the pro career isn't a backseat priority to finances.
Sound guidance in my opinion.
hshuler posted:bacdorslider posted:2018 could face this dilemma ......its a tough one. I think it would take a good amount not to attend Vanderbilt . Brown has made some very good pitchers , Corbin is the best.. Vandy education, travel, training table, all the latest in equipment and training aids.... the field in 4 blocks from my office. Chances are good that you get drafted after 3 years at Vandy and you are more mature and starting out higher than low A.
But then again a 1million in the bank, not putting as many innings on your arm in milb as opposed to college. Wish I would have had this problem when I was 18.
I wish I had this problem really right now. LoL
I think someday you will, but I know that you will be careful what you say or dont say on a message board.
FWIW to anyone, anyone can say anything to anyone, but nothing really does matter until your sons senior year as far as the draft. Its not always about money, but sometimes making your draft round better. For some going to college just might be a better choice.
Just ask Seth Beer.
Seth Beer, not familiar with the kid but when I googled him I found it interesting he was a "10" on PG grade yet only ranked as a "follow"...those two don't see to correlate to each other.
Looks like Clemson can't find enough accolades to put in his bio (wow!). Just looked up his stat line...Kris Bryant kind of numbers...he has a bright future.
Nuke83 posted:As my son goes through this process now, the best advice we've heard from several scouts is that if the amount of the signing bonus is the deciding factor, go to college. If the mindset is that the only paycheck the kid will get will be the signing bonus, go to college.
If the top priority of the family is the financial security offered through the signing bonus, then the general consensus of the pro community is that the kid isn't likely to have the intangibles necessary to succeed out of HS and they'd rather see the kid go to school and make the pro decision later when the pro career isn't a backseat priority to finances.
Sound guidance in my opinion.
I really don't get that particular logic. I would think the ultimate goal for these kids is to play professionally but they have two options - now or later? To say that the bonus amount shouldn't factor in the decision is not realistic. There's a slight difference between $2 million and $200K.
I know of a kid whose mom is adamant that he's going to college no matter what but he's also the number one ranked player in his class. I'm curious to see what happens when (potentially) $5 million is staring them in the face.
Also, what does a family desires have to do with a kid's intangibles? Not sure that I understand that one either. Now, I know that their are parents out therewho view their kids as a 401K but that still isn't a reflection on the kid.
Please don't think that I'm attacking your post. The because I'm not. I just the see the logic of the pro community here.
TPM posted:hshuler posted:bacdorslider posted:2018 could face this dilemma ......its a tough one. I think it would take a good amount not to attend Vanderbilt . Brown has made some very good pitchers , Corbin is the best.. Vandy education, travel, training table, all the latest in equipment and training aids.... the field in 4 blocks from my office. Chances are good that you get drafted after 3 years at Vandy and you are more mature and starting out higher than low A.
But then again a 1million in the bank, not putting as many innings on your arm in milb as opposed to college. Wish I would have had this problem when I was 18.
I wish I had this problem really right now. LoL
I think someday you will, but I know that you will be careful what you say or dont say on a message board.
FWIW to anyone, anyone can say anything to anyone, but nothing really does matter until your sons senior year as far as the draft. Its not always about money, but sometimes making your draft round better. For some going to college just might be a better choice.
Just ask Seth Beer.
I was talking about my old, out of shape 45 year-old self having that decision, not my son. If I told you guys what I signed for, you'd all send me donation and a sympathy card. My attempt at humor was directed at bacdor's "wish I had this problem when I was 18" comment.
As you know, my son is a freshman and our focus is on tryouts next Monday. I honestly can't think four years down the road because I can hardly remember anything from four years ago.
