Will
So very true!!!!!
This whole discussion to me is proof that hitting really is the most "overcoached, but least understood" aspect of the game. The truths about hitting are what we must be teaching, things like seeing the ball, pitch recognition, balance, getting the universal launch position, being on time to that position, hitting the ball to all fields, anticipating types and locations of pitches based on counts.
I would submit to you that the truths of hitting are the same for everyone, from Ichiro to Bonds. I would also submit that everyone looks at a swing from a perspective, whether that be "linear or rotational" and can only see the swing through that perspective. Someone earlier cited Pujols as "linear" because his hands come down to the ball...Lets think about that, all pitches sink and a majority are thrown below the belt. Pujols stands with his hands above his shoulder, follow me here, his hands have to go down from where they start to where the pitch is or he would NEVER make contact, this proves nothing as to his being linear or rotational, same can be said for stiff front leg, that is an absolute, you can't hit without being firm on the front side.
Lets quit doing harm by trying to teach something that we don't know and labeling everything, and start teaching players to get into the right positions at the right times to put the barrel on the ball constistently.
"Get a good pitch to hit"
I would submit to you that the truths of hitting are the same for everyone, from Ichiro to Bonds. I would also submit that everyone looks at a swing from a perspective, whether that be "linear or rotational" and can only see the swing through that perspective. Someone earlier cited Pujols as "linear" because his hands come down to the ball...Lets think about that, all pitches sink and a majority are thrown below the belt. Pujols stands with his hands above his shoulder, follow me here, his hands have to go down from where they start to where the pitch is or he would NEVER make contact, this proves nothing as to his being linear or rotational, same can be said for stiff front leg, that is an absolute, you can't hit without being firm on the front side.
Lets quit doing harm by trying to teach something that we don't know and labeling everything, and start teaching players to get into the right positions at the right times to put the barrel on the ball constistently.
"Get a good pitch to hit"
great post. most of these theories are to sale - make money off - products and programs. thats why they have to differentiate and label. just my opinion.
steve
http://www.leaguelineup.com/raiderbaseball
steve
http://www.leaguelineup.com/raiderbaseball
raiderbb, which leads us to my book on Linearotational Hitting. This book gets straight to the topic in a round about way! 
quote:Originally posted by MTW:
...same can be said for stiff front leg, that is an absolute, you can't hit without being firm on the front side....
Poppeycock. Firm on the front side? Maybe. Don't like the phrase but I think I know what you mean.
But, stiff front leg is NOT an absolute.
I am about to publish a new book on hitting.
It will be called:
"Fractal aerodynamic counterrotational spin - the New Wave"
I will be selling the books for $7,430 each and with the purchase - you are entitled to the DVD as well - where I expound endlessly on the time/space continuum and its relevance to the swing of a baseball player.
It will be thrilling - I assure you.
It will be called:
"Fractal aerodynamic counterrotational spin - the New Wave"
I will be selling the books for $7,430 each and with the purchase - you are entitled to the DVD as well - where I expound endlessly on the time/space continuum and its relevance to the swing of a baseball player.
It will be thrilling - I assure you.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:quote:Originally posted by MTW:
...same can be said for stiff front leg, that is an absolute, you can't hit without being firm on the front side....
Poppeycock. Firm on the front side? Maybe. Don't like the phrase but I think I know what you mean.
But, stiff front leg is NOT an absolute.
I agree, a stiff front leg is not necessary. I grew up watching Paul Molitor play and he racked up many hits with a bent front leg during contact.
Firm is a better way of stating it, however, many guys do "lock it out."
I hear what you are saying about Molitor and I have never seen slow motion replays, but it has been my experience that some of the guys that look to the naked eye like they have a bent front knee actually get it firm and then get it bent again extremely quickly. He may be the exception, I really don't know, but I think we can agree that rules or "absolutes" have few exceptions, I for one would not even think that because one guy does it one way, that is how we should teach it.
Just food for thought, oh and by the way "poppycock"?? Is that still a word?
I hear what you are saying about Molitor and I have never seen slow motion replays, but it has been my experience that some of the guys that look to the naked eye like they have a bent front knee actually get it firm and then get it bent again extremely quickly. He may be the exception, I really don't know, but I think we can agree that rules or "absolutes" have few exceptions, I for one would not even think that because one guy does it one way, that is how we should teach it.
Just food for thought, oh and by the way "poppycock"?? Is that still a word?
Actually let me reply again, of all the things that I said in my post all anyone can come up with is an argument against how I phrased firm vs stiff front leg. I guess that continues to make the point, we are so concerned with phrases and labels that we are missing the forest through the trees. Study it, teach it, develop a system and a progression and quit theorizing and arguing, we are cheating the kids and costing talented athletes a chance to be successful because we are more concerned with our egos and labels than we are with helping players be successful. I am sorry if I am on a rant, but I hate love baseball and I am so frustrated with the way the game gets coached, no wonder s****r/basketball etc. are becoming king, while baseball is thought of as a quaint "pasttime." We are not doing are homework, we are not innovative, we don't study, we don't develop players, we are so concerned with "style" that we miss substance.
quote:Originally posted by MTW:
...of all the things that I said in my post all anyone can come up with is an argument against how I phrased firm vs stiff front leg...
You still don't get it.
The problem is the word absolute. It is not. Never has been. Never will be.
Absolute means something you have to do. Something all the greats do.
Stiff front leg doesn't qualify.
And, for your soap box about getting in the way of kids, I just don't want a kid to read something that isn't true and spend his time and effort making sure he does something that has no relevance to a high level swing.
The biggest thing that keeps talented athletes from becoming what they can become is bad instruction. Which there is a plethora of.
Finally, you better understand cause and effect before issuing hitting advice. I can swing, get my leg stiff, but still be very inefficient with my lower body. And, I can swing very efficiently with my lower body and not stiffen my leg. Another good reason why "stiff leg" is not an absolute.
Linear - based on your comments - I guess it is fair to assume you will not be buying my book.
Hello Richard, how have you been?
How's the pizza shop going?
How's the pizza shop going?
He's baaaaack.
LOL
LOL
in order to sell your books you are going to have to call yourselves revolutionary or rebel and then come up with terms like rotational and linear. then you have to tell everybody that their wrong. then charge them to find out why.
then you have to become arrogant and tolerate no questioning or disagreement. best ive got it figured out thats the way it works. also in order to get questions answered in your forum they have to pay for your program or buy your products. funny how that works huh?
i will say that steven ellis's pitching website and forum and mike griffin's strength and conditioning does not meet the above criteria. thats a good thing.
then you have to become arrogant and tolerate no questioning or disagreement. best ive got it figured out thats the way it works. also in order to get questions answered in your forum they have to pay for your program or buy your products. funny how that works huh?
i will say that steven ellis's pitching website and forum and mike griffin's strength and conditioning does not meet the above criteria. thats a good thing.
Its
I'll buy your book because I buy all of them, but I'll have to wait for the paperback since your new discoveries are still a bit pricey.
The Linear vs. rotational argument goes on and on and on.........BORING!
My position is that trial and error is the best teacher and all this other stuff is our generations obsession with shortcuts. My best advice to any kid is to "Swing the bat."
JMO.
R.
I'll buy your book because I buy all of them, but I'll have to wait for the paperback since your new discoveries are still a bit pricey.
The Linear vs. rotational argument goes on and on and on.........BORING!
My position is that trial and error is the best teacher and all this other stuff is our generations obsession with shortcuts. My best advice to any kid is to "Swing the bat."
JMO.
R.
Callaway,
Given that you are the only (nice) person on the planet that is remotely interested in my fractal aerodynamic counterrotational hitting thesis, I will throw in a free claymation video of Arod in the playoffs and 3 bags of David sunflower seeds - AND - drop the price down to $6,950 per package.
Whatta deal!
Given that you are the only (nice) person on the planet that is remotely interested in my fractal aerodynamic counterrotational hitting thesis, I will throw in a free claymation video of Arod in the playoffs and 3 bags of David sunflower seeds - AND - drop the price down to $6,950 per package.
Whatta deal!
I have developed a new hitting philosophy, it's called rotationear or maybe lineatational!
It's and I developed it and it can be put on layaway for the holidays!
Or we can in house finance it for a 22% finance rate. Spread out over a 10 year loan, it's like a second mortgage. Enjoy!
It's and I developed it and it can be put on layaway for the holidays!
Or we can in house finance it for a 22% finance rate. Spread out over a 10 year loan, it's like a second mortgage. Enjoy!
Linear,
Enlighten me on which hitters do not hit with a firm front leg.
Enlighten me on which hitters do not hit with a firm front leg.
here is a link you may find interesting.
http://images.art.com/images/products/large/10131000/10131541.jpg
http://images.art.com/images/products/large/10131000/10131541.jpg
quote:Ross, I agree with you too, in fact, most all good hitters in the big leagues have a good rotational swing with some linear movement. Heck, a stride can be a linear movement, and about 99.5% of all big leaguers take a stride, power hitters or not. What I don't agree with some of the posters on is that some have linear swings......there is no such thing, otherwise there can be no hip or shoulder rotation in the swing at all, and every hitter has hip and shoulder rotation, even Ichiro.
Rotational and linear>Shepster says yes to this.
quote:My position is that trial and error is the best teacher and all this other stuff is our generations obsession with shortcuts. My best advice to any kid is to "Swing the bat."
This post Callaway from Columbia, SC a while back is the best description I have found of becoming a great hitter on this thread.
Shep says, you gotta get in the trenches and practice-educate/ practice-educate/ practice-educate...Eventually you will get it if you want it bad enough.
Good Day
Start young. Swing the bat. See where you are and take it from there. Every hitter has some linear movement. Every hitter has some rotational movement. This arguement is like others have said, boring and not productive at all. Kids that can hit have certain things in common. Those are the things that you need to try to emulate. Other than that it is an individual thing. What works for one might not work for another. Trial and error. Practice and patience.
You just never know who is going to pop up on the HSBBW-LOL
By rule of the 'Do Not Post Respones to Any Thread Beyond 5 Pages Because That Means This Topic Is Contoversial And Many Get Offended' policy, I've chosen to not respond in any way to this thread.
